Do I have a shoulder injury? And what do I do if so?
March 14, 2018 4:09 PM Subscribe
Female who started lifting weights in October. Searing pain in my deltoids on both of my shoulder caps when I try to lift any type of weight on them. Did I injure myself and what do I do to heal?
I'm relatively new to the world of weight lifting and I'm a bit nervous I've done something bad to my shoulders. Been going to Crossfit regularly for the past three months, irregularly for a few months before that (I know there are a lot of folks who are anti-crossfit, but after dropping in at another box, I've realized that my gym's trainers are SERIOUS sticklers about form, which is why I don't feel like I've done something stupid inadvertently as a result of a stupid hard workout). I've been slowly building up my upper body strength and have PRed push press at 95, power clean at 145. A couple weeks ago I was doing some overhead squats (I think maybe around 65? maybe 85) and the next day my shoulder caps were hurting terribly whenever I put any weight on them or do any kind of shoulder press. Even when I would just rerack the bar after front squatting.
I've been kind of trying to avoid doing shoulder work, but practically all upper body work includes shoulder muscles, so I haven't completely avoided it. Not to mention, I'm in the middle of the Open right now (my first one!)... But this pain hasn't gone away and I'm afraid I might have an injury.
I've never had any type of muscle injury before. How do you know if you have one and what do you do to heal?
I'm relatively new to the world of weight lifting and I'm a bit nervous I've done something bad to my shoulders. Been going to Crossfit regularly for the past three months, irregularly for a few months before that (I know there are a lot of folks who are anti-crossfit, but after dropping in at another box, I've realized that my gym's trainers are SERIOUS sticklers about form, which is why I don't feel like I've done something stupid inadvertently as a result of a stupid hard workout). I've been slowly building up my upper body strength and have PRed push press at 95, power clean at 145. A couple weeks ago I was doing some overhead squats (I think maybe around 65? maybe 85) and the next day my shoulder caps were hurting terribly whenever I put any weight on them or do any kind of shoulder press. Even when I would just rerack the bar after front squatting.
I've been kind of trying to avoid doing shoulder work, but practically all upper body work includes shoulder muscles, so I haven't completely avoided it. Not to mention, I'm in the middle of the Open right now (my first one!)... But this pain hasn't gone away and I'm afraid I might have an injury.
I've never had any type of muscle injury before. How do you know if you have one and what do you do to heal?
It's tough to diagnose over the inter webs, and IANYMD, but shoulder impingement is one possibility, particularly if the pain gets worse while pressing. In any case, you really should and take a break from all upper body work in the meantime, and if the pain persists, have your shoulders checked out by an orthopedic shoulder surgeon or a sports medicine physician. Hell, even if the pain subsides, I'd go get them checked out anyway. There are various 'pre-hab' and rehab exercises you can do, but you should wait until your shoulders have a clean bill of health to do those.
Trust me -- you really do not want to screw around with your shoulder health, particularly if lifting is something that you want to keep up with in the future. I messed up my left shoulder almost a decade ago doing dips and it hasn't fully recovered since; even with a whole lot of babying and rehabbing, I have to be very careful with the specific movements I do, and some are off the table, like weighted dips, which is a huge bummer since they were among my favorite exercises to do.
posted by un petit cadeau at 4:42 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
Trust me -- you really do not want to screw around with your shoulder health, particularly if lifting is something that you want to keep up with in the future. I messed up my left shoulder almost a decade ago doing dips and it hasn't fully recovered since; even with a whole lot of babying and rehabbing, I have to be very careful with the specific movements I do, and some are off the table, like weighted dips, which is a huge bummer since they were among my favorite exercises to do.
posted by un petit cadeau at 4:42 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm a CrossFit coach, and if one of my athletes came to me with your complaint, I'd tell them to go to a PT ASAP. Even if it's just an impingement, they can help diagnose what's going on and give you some exercises to help. Especially with shoulders, it's very easy to lay off upper body for a while and feel like everything is OK, and then go back to training and immediately feel pain again. Go now before anything makes it worse.
posted by Fuego at 5:12 PM on March 14, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Fuego at 5:12 PM on March 14, 2018 [7 favorites]
I'll add - as someone who both lifts and has had shoulder issues for years that yeah - stop doing upper body stuff, get checked out and in the meantime ice, be mindful of how you sleep (be careful with pillows to be protective) and if you can tolerate NSAIDs I'd take them too. You don't mention your age but that's quite a lot of weight for a woman, especially in as short a period of time. Shoulder injuries are pernicious - don't try to power through it.
posted by leslies at 6:27 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by leslies at 6:27 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
As a powerlifter with some chronic rotator cuff issues, I concur with everyone else - lay off the upper body workouts IMMEDIATELY and go see a physical therapist. You're doing a ton of weight, very soon, and doing quite heavy dynamic lifts and lifts that require a ton of shoulder stability. I don't care how much your instructors are hardasses around form, it only takes one lift a few degrees off what your shoulders will tolerate to give you an injury that could take six months to recover from. I've done Crossfit, and I have zero difficulty visualizing the single 95# push press that could do it, and the dozen reps after that ensure it's not too minor.
posted by restless_nomad at 7:00 PM on March 14, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 7:00 PM on March 14, 2018 [7 favorites]
From a few months to a 95# pp for a woman is hugely quick. Were you an athelete before this in something that would’ve built your upper body strength? What’s your strict press max weight? One of the dangers of xfit is that it has a lot of dynamic exercises like pp that can let you work with weights far beyond what your tendons and supporting muscles can really handle. You might have great pp form but simply not enough supporting development to lower the risk of injury and developing the musculature to support that kind of upper body strength as a woman takes years, not months, unless you already had it from prior activities.
I would lay off of all upper body work until you feel no pain at a bare minimum. If you can, see a pt, or even a good massage therapist. And go slower. A lot of people injure themselves with dynamic lifts before they’ve built enough baseline strength to support it. It’s not worth surgery.
posted by ch1x0r at 8:26 PM on March 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
I would lay off of all upper body work until you feel no pain at a bare minimum. If you can, see a pt, or even a good massage therapist. And go slower. A lot of people injure themselves with dynamic lifts before they’ve built enough baseline strength to support it. It’s not worth surgery.
posted by ch1x0r at 8:26 PM on March 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
Yes, you have an injury.
Yes, you need to see medical professionals.
Yes, you have to stop doing anything that hurts your shoulders right now. Even driving, laying in bed, etc.
If you want to lift throughout your life, you need to listen to your body first and any instructors second.
If you have ANY pain, even just a weird twinge, walk away from the lift. You aren’t doing that today. Pick anything else to do as long as it causes no pain.
Another criticism of CrossFit is that it doesn’t provide workouts that are balanced. Maybe a workout keeps hitting one muscle group to the point of overuse or exhaustion, or doesn’t balance a push with a pull, or focuses on big lifts without essential accessory work, or is always pushing for a PR without balancing it with more technical goals. As well, you will need workouts custom to your injury now, and I can’t imagine you completing whatever is the day’s assignments for the general members.
You need a doctor, a physical therapist, and a trainer to help you plan workouts for YOU and your specific body. Look for a trainer that’s over 50 and has been lifting forever.
posted by littlewater at 10:08 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes, you need to see medical professionals.
Yes, you have to stop doing anything that hurts your shoulders right now. Even driving, laying in bed, etc.
If you want to lift throughout your life, you need to listen to your body first and any instructors second.
If you have ANY pain, even just a weird twinge, walk away from the lift. You aren’t doing that today. Pick anything else to do as long as it causes no pain.
Another criticism of CrossFit is that it doesn’t provide workouts that are balanced. Maybe a workout keeps hitting one muscle group to the point of overuse or exhaustion, or doesn’t balance a push with a pull, or focuses on big lifts without essential accessory work, or is always pushing for a PR without balancing it with more technical goals. As well, you will need workouts custom to your injury now, and I can’t imagine you completing whatever is the day’s assignments for the general members.
You need a doctor, a physical therapist, and a trainer to help you plan workouts for YOU and your specific body. Look for a trainer that’s over 50 and has been lifting forever.
posted by littlewater at 10:08 PM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
As others have mentioned, form isn’t the only thing that’s important. Crossfit...I have opinions. I’ve done it, at a few different boxes, and even the ones where they had competent coaches tended toward the whole “you can do more than you think you can” thing.
Not everyone can do Crossfit. It’s not just about fitness, it’s about inflammatory response and how fast your particular body recovers from strenuous exercise and whether you’re actually giving it the proper recovery time. Moving to 95# push press in 4.5 months as a lady, with no prior experience, does sound like too much too fast. Not impossible, but likely not a good idea, even if you are an athlete or are in the top 10% for upper body strength. Like to the point where I side eye your Crossfit gym.
That was me, by the way! For whatever weirdo reason, I have a lot of upper body strength. And I *still* messed with my shoulders when I was lifting, going slower than you did. In my case it has to do with structural issues — my shoulders are so rounded that even when my form looks good, it’s not, bc I can’t load the weight properly. It can take time and targeted work to reorganize your body so that it can do these movements safely, and being naturally strong at a particular lift can sort of mislead you into thinking you can muscle it up until you hurt yourself.
Anyway. What everyone else said. PT, give your shoulders time to recover. Like...squat with the safety bar, kind of thing. And figure out if there’s an underlying structural thing you need to work on.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:06 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Not everyone can do Crossfit. It’s not just about fitness, it’s about inflammatory response and how fast your particular body recovers from strenuous exercise and whether you’re actually giving it the proper recovery time. Moving to 95# push press in 4.5 months as a lady, with no prior experience, does sound like too much too fast. Not impossible, but likely not a good idea, even if you are an athlete or are in the top 10% for upper body strength. Like to the point where I side eye your Crossfit gym.
That was me, by the way! For whatever weirdo reason, I have a lot of upper body strength. And I *still* messed with my shoulders when I was lifting, going slower than you did. In my case it has to do with structural issues — my shoulders are so rounded that even when my form looks good, it’s not, bc I can’t load the weight properly. It can take time and targeted work to reorganize your body so that it can do these movements safely, and being naturally strong at a particular lift can sort of mislead you into thinking you can muscle it up until you hurt yourself.
Anyway. What everyone else said. PT, give your shoulders time to recover. Like...squat with the safety bar, kind of thing. And figure out if there’s an underlying structural thing you need to work on.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:06 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Another vote for PT, preferably sports-specific. They can be miracle workers. I saw one for about six weeks last summer and the pain never recurred even though I've been lax about the exercises they gave me.
posted by AFABulous at 8:19 AM on March 15, 2018
posted by AFABulous at 8:19 AM on March 15, 2018
Crossfitter and oly lifter here! I was relatively new to physical activity when i started and you are describing my first year of crossfit. I had some relief doing general stretches for rotator cuff relief, but this podcast was a game changer:- https://youtu.be/AkyeqhoUpv4
Shoulders are so complicated and what seems like a serious injury can sometimes resolve just with basic rotator cuff stretches it's like magic! crossfits terrible injury reputation (imho) comes from people 'training insane' but not working the recovery side of things properly - the podcast i linked to helps you understand the answer needs to be about the whole system not just the shoulder! Best thing i did for my crossfit and lifting was get obsessed with recovery and mobility (started with romwod and kelly starrets youtube) good luck!
posted by eastboundanddown at 11:42 AM on March 15, 2018
Shoulders are so complicated and what seems like a serious injury can sometimes resolve just with basic rotator cuff stretches it's like magic! crossfits terrible injury reputation (imho) comes from people 'training insane' but not working the recovery side of things properly - the podcast i linked to helps you understand the answer needs to be about the whole system not just the shoulder! Best thing i did for my crossfit and lifting was get obsessed with recovery and mobility (started with romwod and kelly starrets youtube) good luck!
posted by eastboundanddown at 11:42 AM on March 15, 2018
But I'd also get stuff checked out if I was worried and if was persisting! :)
posted by eastboundanddown at 11:43 AM on March 15, 2018
posted by eastboundanddown at 11:43 AM on March 15, 2018
My shoulder impingement took over a year to recover from & was often excruciatingly painful for the first six months or so.
Please don't mess around lifting weights when you have actual pain. Go see a professional.
Personally, I'd also find a non-crossfit gym too, but that's because everything about cross-fit gives me the heebie-jeebies.
posted by pharm at 1:26 PM on March 15, 2018
Please don't mess around lifting weights when you have actual pain. Go see a professional.
Personally, I'd also find a non-crossfit gym too, but that's because everything about cross-fit gives me the heebie-jeebies.
posted by pharm at 1:26 PM on March 15, 2018
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone, for the input! I made an appointment to see a doctor and am, per everyone's advice, stopping any type of upper body work and resting it for now. I didn't realize I was moving up in weight so quickly -- does it matter that I'm a bigger woman? 5'6, a little less than 200 pounds? And slowly losing weight with CF/cardio 5-6 times per week. I'm super impressed when I see thinner women lifting the same amount of weight as me that I thought me pushing myself should be some proportion to how much I weigh...? I don't know. Now I feel really silly for trying for "gains" too quickly.
Weightlifting is the only exercise I've done that I really like and I'll be really bummed if I've messed up any future in the sport because I wasn't being careful. Those of you who do powerlifting, where do you go to learn about how to train? I have lots of questions like if I'm always supposed to be shooting to PR every week and how frequently to train different muscle groups.
posted by orangesky4 at 2:41 PM on March 15, 2018
Weightlifting is the only exercise I've done that I really like and I'll be really bummed if I've messed up any future in the sport because I wasn't being careful. Those of you who do powerlifting, where do you go to learn about how to train? I have lots of questions like if I'm always supposed to be shooting to PR every week and how frequently to train different muscle groups.
posted by orangesky4 at 2:41 PM on March 15, 2018
Something like Starting Strength is what it says it is, and is a nice simple progression with 5 basic lifts (IIRC) — back squat, overhead press, bench press, deadlift, and then...clean? Or rows?
By PR do you mean a PR for your one rep max? You definitely shouldn’t be doing that every time, no. With Starting Strength I think you go up in five pound increments every week or so, but for upper body stuff you might find you hit a point where you go up by 2.5 lbs every week. (Depending on how frequently you lift.) In general in the beginning you’re also (mostly?) training your nervous system to properly recruit the muscle you already have in an organized, efficient way, which is I think the reason for newbie gains. How fast you add weight will also depend on how much you’re eating and how much you’re sleeping. (I was surprised by how much of a difference this made.) and also definitely how old you are. And also personal genetics. Lots of things!
But yeah, I would consider lifting somewhere else. It doesn’t sound like you’ve been well served.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:58 PM on March 15, 2018
By PR do you mean a PR for your one rep max? You definitely shouldn’t be doing that every time, no. With Starting Strength I think you go up in five pound increments every week or so, but for upper body stuff you might find you hit a point where you go up by 2.5 lbs every week. (Depending on how frequently you lift.) In general in the beginning you’re also (mostly?) training your nervous system to properly recruit the muscle you already have in an organized, efficient way, which is I think the reason for newbie gains. How fast you add weight will also depend on how much you’re eating and how much you’re sleeping. (I was surprised by how much of a difference this made.) and also definitely how old you are. And also personal genetics. Lots of things!
But yeah, I would consider lifting somewhere else. It doesn’t sound like you’ve been well served.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:58 PM on March 15, 2018
Best answer: I'm 5'6" and a variable weight that hasn't been below 200 in a good ten years - my strict overhead press PR is 100#, but that was after literally fifteen or twenty years of training. I was a swimmer in high school, hence the rotator cuff issues, and I don't do overhead squats or push press/push jerk any more because the cost of missing a lift is months of recovery.
Starting Strength is definitely a good starting point, and the book itself was a very good read. Personally I've been doing the Wendler 531 for about ten years now, and it's served me well - again, totally worth actually reading the ebooks and getting a sense of how he's put together programming and why.
I have a good friend who has been doing Stronglifts and that worked really well for her right up until it was waaaaaay too much squat volume for her recovery. It's really written for college football player types with oodles of testosterone and short recovery times. A 45-year-old woman has to arrange things a little differently! But again, it's a well-known and respected workout schedule that you can take a look at to get some perspective.
posted by restless_nomad at 4:40 PM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Starting Strength is definitely a good starting point, and the book itself was a very good read. Personally I've been doing the Wendler 531 for about ten years now, and it's served me well - again, totally worth actually reading the ebooks and getting a sense of how he's put together programming and why.
I have a good friend who has been doing Stronglifts and that worked really well for her right up until it was waaaaaay too much squat volume for her recovery. It's really written for college football player types with oodles of testosterone and short recovery times. A 45-year-old woman has to arrange things a little differently! But again, it's a well-known and respected workout schedule that you can take a look at to get some perspective.
posted by restless_nomad at 4:40 PM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
I’m a woman in my fourties and I’ve been lifting for ...gosh nearly 20 years I guess.
I’m a very conservative lifter and I very very rarely worry about what my single rep max is. I’m really competitive and I would probably rip my arms/legs/spine out before I missed a lift. So I don’t do it a lot. Maybe once a year? Some years not at all - that’s far from the only way to measure progress.
I started competing in powerlifting before I had a baby but the pregnancy ruined my spine so no more competing. For now.
I’m 5’6” My lifting weight ranges from a really lean 150 to a fat thighed 190. I can do a bunch of push presses at 95. But lord, I don’t like to lift as much as possible over my head. I mean why? Why not get really really good at doing it a bunch of times well at a really manageable weight? This isn’t a lift that should destroy you. I don’t like that much weight over my head that I can drop on my face, or rip my arm off with. But, when I’m in shape to be doing push presses at 95 or 110 or whatever I can also do over 10 strict chin ups. And I’ve worked for these lifts by conservatively leaving a few reps on the table for months or years, by working the glamor lifts and the accessory lifts and the anti-rotational lifts and the Pilates and the breathing work ...
And in 20 years of lifting, I’ve never hurt myself. Ok I pinched my fingers between some plates. Once I tweaked my butt for 1.5 days with poor squat form and I was so mad at myself. And of course I’ve suffered DOMS.
But lifting SHOULD NOT HURT.
If it hurts even a tiny bit you have to stop. The lift isn’t for you. That’s ok. Maybe it’s ok tomorrow. If not, you need help.
(DOMS is normal though.)
Olympic lifting is incredibly technical.
I’m a slow lumbering beast so I do very little in that vein, but building your foundation on more traditional weightlifting will help you understand those lifts so much better. And your ligaments will be more ready for that level of force.
And go to Pilates. It’s so important.
Good luck. Lifting is a highlight of my life. Keep it slow and steady and you can lift forever.
posted by littlewater at 7:32 PM on March 15, 2018
I’m a very conservative lifter and I very very rarely worry about what my single rep max is. I’m really competitive and I would probably rip my arms/legs/spine out before I missed a lift. So I don’t do it a lot. Maybe once a year? Some years not at all - that’s far from the only way to measure progress.
I started competing in powerlifting before I had a baby but the pregnancy ruined my spine so no more competing. For now.
I’m 5’6” My lifting weight ranges from a really lean 150 to a fat thighed 190. I can do a bunch of push presses at 95. But lord, I don’t like to lift as much as possible over my head. I mean why? Why not get really really good at doing it a bunch of times well at a really manageable weight? This isn’t a lift that should destroy you. I don’t like that much weight over my head that I can drop on my face, or rip my arm off with. But, when I’m in shape to be doing push presses at 95 or 110 or whatever I can also do over 10 strict chin ups. And I’ve worked for these lifts by conservatively leaving a few reps on the table for months or years, by working the glamor lifts and the accessory lifts and the anti-rotational lifts and the Pilates and the breathing work ...
And in 20 years of lifting, I’ve never hurt myself. Ok I pinched my fingers between some plates. Once I tweaked my butt for 1.5 days with poor squat form and I was so mad at myself. And of course I’ve suffered DOMS.
But lifting SHOULD NOT HURT.
If it hurts even a tiny bit you have to stop. The lift isn’t for you. That’s ok. Maybe it’s ok tomorrow. If not, you need help.
(DOMS is normal though.)
Olympic lifting is incredibly technical.
I’m a slow lumbering beast so I do very little in that vein, but building your foundation on more traditional weightlifting will help you understand those lifts so much better. And your ligaments will be more ready for that level of force.
And go to Pilates. It’s so important.
Good luck. Lifting is a highlight of my life. Keep it slow and steady and you can lift forever.
posted by littlewater at 7:32 PM on March 15, 2018
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posted by orangesky4 at 4:21 PM on March 14, 2018