I can't do this alone any more
February 26, 2018 5:59 PM Subscribe
My wife has been unemployed and looking for work for about five years. I've taken care of all the bills since she lost her job, but we barely break even. We flat out need a second income. I am an avoidant person and am very poor at communicating anything that I think will upset people I care about. Please help me talk to her about this situation in an effective and caring way.
My wife lost her job shortly after we got married. When we were dating, we agreed that we wanted to live in a two income home, invest and save every month, buy a house, and have a child together (in addition to her son from a previous marriage, who I love very much and am the primary father figure for). None of those things have happened. We have no savings to speak of other than the small emergency fund I came into the relationship with.
We're extremely lucky that no one has gotten seriously sick and my car has stayed reliable for a very long time. It's just not feasible for me to earn more money right now, and my wife's ex-husband doesn't work regularly enough to provide meaningful child support.
My wife says that she applies for jobs online every week (and I honestly do believe her), but she hasn't even gone to an interview in years. For context, we live in a growing area that currently has very low unemployment. I know she should be volunteering, networking, or getting some kind of training, but she isn't. I'm certain she's depressed, but she resists anything I suggest about getting counseling. I know that I'm contributing to the problem by enabling all of this, but I don't know what to do. I feel more pity than anger towards her. What she is going through must also be very, very hard. I don't want to leave her or my stepson.
I feel like my wife would take a job if one fell into her lap, but that's clearly not going to happen. She has anxiety and does very poorly in what I think of as typical entry level job situations, such as food service or working a register. She is intelligent and has a Master's degree, but that's probably irrelevant at this point, isn't it?
As we've both gotten into our late thirties, I'm feeling more and more worried about us having no retirement savings (apart from the pension at my job), no home equity, and no plan for how we'll help my stepson pay for college. I'm also worried that I will never be able to afford to have a child, which would be my only biological child, and is something I've always wanted to do.
I am awful at tough conversations. I don't know how to have a talk with a loved one where I insist on something that I need. I'm not even sure what to ask for. I feel like I'm just going to describe a situation we both know is bad, and ask for a solution that she already knows is important but feels unable to provide, leaving everyone feeling upset but accomplishing nothing.
I know that I should talk with her about this, but I don't know how or what it would be reasonable to ask for. How can I have a conversation about this where I assert my needs in an effective way that also respects the hard time I know my wife is having as well? What should I even suggest that she do?
My wife lost her job shortly after we got married. When we were dating, we agreed that we wanted to live in a two income home, invest and save every month, buy a house, and have a child together (in addition to her son from a previous marriage, who I love very much and am the primary father figure for). None of those things have happened. We have no savings to speak of other than the small emergency fund I came into the relationship with.
We're extremely lucky that no one has gotten seriously sick and my car has stayed reliable for a very long time. It's just not feasible for me to earn more money right now, and my wife's ex-husband doesn't work regularly enough to provide meaningful child support.
My wife says that she applies for jobs online every week (and I honestly do believe her), but she hasn't even gone to an interview in years. For context, we live in a growing area that currently has very low unemployment. I know she should be volunteering, networking, or getting some kind of training, but she isn't. I'm certain she's depressed, but she resists anything I suggest about getting counseling. I know that I'm contributing to the problem by enabling all of this, but I don't know what to do. I feel more pity than anger towards her. What she is going through must also be very, very hard. I don't want to leave her or my stepson.
I feel like my wife would take a job if one fell into her lap, but that's clearly not going to happen. She has anxiety and does very poorly in what I think of as typical entry level job situations, such as food service or working a register. She is intelligent and has a Master's degree, but that's probably irrelevant at this point, isn't it?
As we've both gotten into our late thirties, I'm feeling more and more worried about us having no retirement savings (apart from the pension at my job), no home equity, and no plan for how we'll help my stepson pay for college. I'm also worried that I will never be able to afford to have a child, which would be my only biological child, and is something I've always wanted to do.
I am awful at tough conversations. I don't know how to have a talk with a loved one where I insist on something that I need. I'm not even sure what to ask for. I feel like I'm just going to describe a situation we both know is bad, and ask for a solution that she already knows is important but feels unable to provide, leaving everyone feeling upset but accomplishing nothing.
I know that I should talk with her about this, but I don't know how or what it would be reasonable to ask for. How can I have a conversation about this where I assert my needs in an effective way that also respects the hard time I know my wife is having as well? What should I even suggest that she do?
It's pretty clear that she's not going to stick to your original plan. This sounds nuts, but I might actually consider having a kid? Assuming she's interested and emotionally capable of being the primary caregiver, obviously. Figure out the budget you'd need with a kid and a standard of living that's as reduced as possible (you may need to move) and move on with the thing you seem to want most, even though it's not happening in the way you hoped.
posted by metasarah at 6:11 PM on February 26, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 6:11 PM on February 26, 2018 [14 favorites]
Here are some talking points that give you an idea of how to approach this
- THIS IS A PROBLEM - The pressure is mounting, this is really bothering me, I need you to hear me and take it seriously that we need to do something about our financial situation
- I want us to be a team - I know it isn't easy for you to just go out and get a job and I want us to be in this together
- There is no point in doing what we already know doesn't work - if she says "I'll try harder", that's not enough - she needs to try something different. Maybe something for anxiety (counseling, medication) maybe a job coach or working with the local unemployment center.
- If nothing changes, then you ask for marriage counseling because it is impacting your marriage that nothing is happening on something that is very important to you and you two can't talk about it on your own.
posted by metahawk at 6:15 PM on February 26, 2018 [12 favorites]
- THIS IS A PROBLEM - The pressure is mounting, this is really bothering me, I need you to hear me and take it seriously that we need to do something about our financial situation
- I want us to be a team - I know it isn't easy for you to just go out and get a job and I want us to be in this together
- There is no point in doing what we already know doesn't work - if she says "I'll try harder", that's not enough - she needs to try something different. Maybe something for anxiety (counseling, medication) maybe a job coach or working with the local unemployment center.
- If nothing changes, then you ask for marriage counseling because it is impacting your marriage that nothing is happening on something that is very important to you and you two can't talk about it on your own.
posted by metahawk at 6:15 PM on February 26, 2018 [12 favorites]
I'm so sorry that both of you are going through this. I noticed that some of your other questions have touched on this situation. Have the responses to those questions led to any conversations between the two of you? How has she responded? Does she agree that this is an issue?
It sounds like a practical first step could be for her to seriously pursue volunteering, even just a few hours a week. Is there an issue that she's passionate about, or at least interested in? Would she be open to a conversation exploring how she might start volunteering? Is there something that is holding her back from volunteering? It sounds like you're really stretched thin by your day job, but is there a way that you could do some volunteer work for a cause that you all find important - either just the two of you or your whole family together?
Depending on her career goals/industry, this could be a great way to network, or even find a job (I got a couple of my first nonprofit jobs by being a dependable volunteer.) It may also just be a way to rebuild her confidence.
I historically haven't had trouble finding work, but when we moved for Mr. Cimton's job a few years ago I really struggled to find a job. After several months of banging my head against the wall, sending applications, and feeling dejected, I started volunteering at a few places near where we lived and it really made a difference. Not only was it helpful to get out of the house, it was a good reminder that hey, I was capable and smart and had lots to contribute. None of the volunteering directly led to the (great!) job that I ended up with, but it did rebuild my confidence and (I think!) demonstrate to employers that I was hard working and engaged in the world.
posted by cimton at 6:33 PM on February 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
It sounds like a practical first step could be for her to seriously pursue volunteering, even just a few hours a week. Is there an issue that she's passionate about, or at least interested in? Would she be open to a conversation exploring how she might start volunteering? Is there something that is holding her back from volunteering? It sounds like you're really stretched thin by your day job, but is there a way that you could do some volunteer work for a cause that you all find important - either just the two of you or your whole family together?
Depending on her career goals/industry, this could be a great way to network, or even find a job (I got a couple of my first nonprofit jobs by being a dependable volunteer.) It may also just be a way to rebuild her confidence.
I historically haven't had trouble finding work, but when we moved for Mr. Cimton's job a few years ago I really struggled to find a job. After several months of banging my head against the wall, sending applications, and feeling dejected, I started volunteering at a few places near where we lived and it really made a difference. Not only was it helpful to get out of the house, it was a good reminder that hey, I was capable and smart and had lots to contribute. None of the volunteering directly led to the (great!) job that I ended up with, but it did rebuild my confidence and (I think!) demonstrate to employers that I was hard working and engaged in the world.
posted by cimton at 6:33 PM on February 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
Have you been helping her with job applications? What type of job is she looking for, and what's her skillset?
Would she also consider starting a small home business? She sounds like the sort of person who needs to be eased into work gradually - someone who gets overwhelmed by too much at once. Maybe you can either start providing low-key help in networking/job applications (e.g. resume-writing, introducing her to anyone you know in similar fields), or by making small suggestions about activities she can take up that would contribute towards this process somehow (and doing them with her / accompanying her, at least initially).
It sounds like she might need to feel less alone in her job search. Right now, from the way you've phrased your question, it seems like she's left to figure it out herself while reporting back to you on any progress ("My wife says that she applies for jobs online every week" "What should I even suggest that she do?"). How about looking at this (or at least, pitching this to her) in terms of "we" rather than "her vs me"? It might make her less anxious and less intimidated/helpless.
You could also try to sit down together with her and formulate a plan together for her job search. Maybe try to couch it in a way that comes across as both of you doing it as a kind of project together, rather than it seeming like you magnanimously going out of your way to help her etc - basically make her feel less like she's indebted to you, and more like you're both in it together.
Even better if you can schedule regular times to sit down together and work on the job search - break it down into smaller tasks that look less intimidating while giving her a concrete plan/structure to work within.
If you can throw money at the problem, it might also help to get her a career coach.
posted by aielen at 6:33 PM on February 26, 2018 [5 favorites]
Would she also consider starting a small home business? She sounds like the sort of person who needs to be eased into work gradually - someone who gets overwhelmed by too much at once. Maybe you can either start providing low-key help in networking/job applications (e.g. resume-writing, introducing her to anyone you know in similar fields), or by making small suggestions about activities she can take up that would contribute towards this process somehow (and doing them with her / accompanying her, at least initially).
It sounds like she might need to feel less alone in her job search. Right now, from the way you've phrased your question, it seems like she's left to figure it out herself while reporting back to you on any progress ("My wife says that she applies for jobs online every week" "What should I even suggest that she do?"). How about looking at this (or at least, pitching this to her) in terms of "we" rather than "her vs me"? It might make her less anxious and less intimidated/helpless.
You could also try to sit down together with her and formulate a plan together for her job search. Maybe try to couch it in a way that comes across as both of you doing it as a kind of project together, rather than it seeming like you magnanimously going out of your way to help her etc - basically make her feel less like she's indebted to you, and more like you're both in it together.
Even better if you can schedule regular times to sit down together and work on the job search - break it down into smaller tasks that look less intimidating while giving her a concrete plan/structure to work within.
If you can throw money at the problem, it might also help to get her a career coach.
posted by aielen at 6:33 PM on February 26, 2018 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Pseudostrabismus: I've recommended a place like that a few times. I know it very well because I sought some help for depression there myself before my wife and I even met. She's just not open to the idea of therapy.
Metasarah: Unfortunately, my wife had severe PPD after her son was born, and I'm afraid the same thing would happen again (or worse) if we had a child before her mental health is better.
Cimton: She has agreed to try volunteering in the past, but has never actually done it. I haven't pushed her on it.
posted by Chuck Barris at 7:20 PM on February 26, 2018
Metasarah: Unfortunately, my wife had severe PPD after her son was born, and I'm afraid the same thing would happen again (or worse) if we had a child before her mental health is better.
Cimton: She has agreed to try volunteering in the past, but has never actually done it. I haven't pushed her on it.
posted by Chuck Barris at 7:20 PM on February 26, 2018
So one thing I’ve noticed is that applying for a job now is a very different game than it used to be, in terms of computers screening resumes before you even get to a human. Especially if your wife is very educated, some of the ways she has been taught to write (use alternative language rather than repeating the same word five times, for example) are actually counterproductive. It’s worth paying for a membership on one of the sites that scans your resume and the job listing to see how much they match, I think.
posted by corb at 7:39 PM on February 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:39 PM on February 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
I'm certain she's depressed, but she resists anything I suggest about getting counseling... She has anxiety...
If this is the same woman you've referred to as your girlfriend or as your wife in previous questions*, the one you've been with for more than seven years, you must insist on couples' counseling.
Previously, she said she didn't want to be a stay-at-home mom; she said she wouldn't marry you until she was employed again, but it seems that you've since wed; you believe she's been depressed for years now, which would greatly affect the quality of your life together as well as her parenting ability, yet this has never been professionally addressed. She couldn't get work as a teacher in your community because of blacklisting, and had some grief and shame about that, but you could not relocate because of her family obligations (elderly parents; sharing custody with her ex-husband).
Has any of this changed, over the years? Are you effectively in a holding pattern until your stepson is 18?
Insist on counseling, because if you ever wanted the same things, she does not seem to want those things anymore.
(*Yes, it is considered bad form to peek at previous questions -- the thing is, your writing style is so distinctive and this problem so familiar, I remembered you. You know you're conflict averse, and it's clear you adore your stepson, but if you keep treading water without actually making waves, then your extremely legitimate concerns (I'm feeling more and more worried about us having no retirement savings (apart from the pension at my job), no home equity, and no plan for how we'll help my stepson pay for college. I'm also worried that I will never be able to afford to have a child, which would be my only biological child, and is something I've always wanted to do) will never resolve in the way you'd like. To the best of anyone's knowledge, we only get this one life.)
On preview: all of her current conditions make this a pretty narrow needle to thread, then. (And severe PPD! Does she even want more biological children?) Push for a full medical check-up, hoping her doc will flag any depression markers? Or, long shot -- is it possible she's got some type of undiagnosed executive dysfunction, and that all her 'noes' are really the anxiety about being able to see something through step-by-step? A site like additudemag has some workarounds (like 'the body double' -- you could be in the room in the evenings while she's filling out applications, for instance).
She's insisting counseling is out; you insist that getting the depression and anxiety treated should be her immediate focus, with a goal of at least a part-time job in a few months' time.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:41 PM on February 26, 2018 [26 favorites]
If this is the same woman you've referred to as your girlfriend or as your wife in previous questions*, the one you've been with for more than seven years, you must insist on couples' counseling.
Previously, she said she didn't want to be a stay-at-home mom; she said she wouldn't marry you until she was employed again, but it seems that you've since wed; you believe she's been depressed for years now, which would greatly affect the quality of your life together as well as her parenting ability, yet this has never been professionally addressed. She couldn't get work as a teacher in your community because of blacklisting, and had some grief and shame about that, but you could not relocate because of her family obligations (elderly parents; sharing custody with her ex-husband).
Has any of this changed, over the years? Are you effectively in a holding pattern until your stepson is 18?
Insist on counseling, because if you ever wanted the same things, she does not seem to want those things anymore.
(*Yes, it is considered bad form to peek at previous questions -- the thing is, your writing style is so distinctive and this problem so familiar, I remembered you. You know you're conflict averse, and it's clear you adore your stepson, but if you keep treading water without actually making waves, then your extremely legitimate concerns (I'm feeling more and more worried about us having no retirement savings (apart from the pension at my job), no home equity, and no plan for how we'll help my stepson pay for college. I'm also worried that I will never be able to afford to have a child, which would be my only biological child, and is something I've always wanted to do) will never resolve in the way you'd like. To the best of anyone's knowledge, we only get this one life.)
On preview: all of her current conditions make this a pretty narrow needle to thread, then. (And severe PPD! Does she even want more biological children?) Push for a full medical check-up, hoping her doc will flag any depression markers? Or, long shot -- is it possible she's got some type of undiagnosed executive dysfunction, and that all her 'noes' are really the anxiety about being able to see something through step-by-step? A site like additudemag has some workarounds (like 'the body double' -- you could be in the room in the evenings while she's filling out applications, for instance).
She's insisting counseling is out; you insist that getting the depression and anxiety treated should be her immediate focus, with a goal of at least a part-time job in a few months' time.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:41 PM on February 26, 2018 [26 favorites]
Best answer: Sometimes when there are a lot of concurrent problems, you need to keep pulling at the knot until you figure out what is causing what.
It sounds to me like the fundamental underlying problem is her mental health:
-not volunteering/networking because of anxiety
-not good at entry level work because of anxiety
-not motivated to try because of depression
-not a good candidate for childbirth currently because of depression risk
-lost interest in dreams and plans you once shared
-no sense of urgency about financial security being threatened
Mental health, likely anxiety with depression or some other related thing(s), is the thread that runs through all the problems you're experiencing.
In the interest of simplifying matters I suggest that you make the conversation not about jobs and money and visions for the future, but about her getting the help she needs to function right now. You really can't move in any of the directions you name while she is struggling so much and feeling so many obstacles. It could be that medication would help, it could be that CBT would help, it could be that couples counseling will help. But it sort of seems to me like she's in a slow-motion mental health crisis, and all the rest of this stuff is the symptoms rather than the problem.
It's not okay to accept from her a flat refusal to begin working on her mental health. If she's "not open" to therapy at this moment you might just start with an appointment at a regular primary doctor that you trust. She will have to be honest about her reasons for being there and should probably get a depression screening. Therapy is quite likely to be part of her recovery. In your shoes the one thing I would be insistent on is that I would not accept things like being "not open" to treatment. At this point it has to be clear that it's hurting you and the family and doing nothing is not an option. She needs to start seeking treatment. And you probably need to suggest a timeline by which that needs to start happening, and offer to assist with the steps, like calling to make the appointment or taking her there or finding the doctor.
How to deal with a depressed spouse
How to survive your spouse's depression
Suffering in silence: when your spouse is depressed
Good luck.
posted by Miko at 7:41 PM on February 26, 2018 [46 favorites]
It sounds to me like the fundamental underlying problem is her mental health:
-not volunteering/networking because of anxiety
-not good at entry level work because of anxiety
-not motivated to try because of depression
-not a good candidate for childbirth currently because of depression risk
-lost interest in dreams and plans you once shared
-no sense of urgency about financial security being threatened
Mental health, likely anxiety with depression or some other related thing(s), is the thread that runs through all the problems you're experiencing.
In the interest of simplifying matters I suggest that you make the conversation not about jobs and money and visions for the future, but about her getting the help she needs to function right now. You really can't move in any of the directions you name while she is struggling so much and feeling so many obstacles. It could be that medication would help, it could be that CBT would help, it could be that couples counseling will help. But it sort of seems to me like she's in a slow-motion mental health crisis, and all the rest of this stuff is the symptoms rather than the problem.
It's not okay to accept from her a flat refusal to begin working on her mental health. If she's "not open" to therapy at this moment you might just start with an appointment at a regular primary doctor that you trust. She will have to be honest about her reasons for being there and should probably get a depression screening. Therapy is quite likely to be part of her recovery. In your shoes the one thing I would be insistent on is that I would not accept things like being "not open" to treatment. At this point it has to be clear that it's hurting you and the family and doing nothing is not an option. She needs to start seeking treatment. And you probably need to suggest a timeline by which that needs to start happening, and offer to assist with the steps, like calling to make the appointment or taking her there or finding the doctor.
How to deal with a depressed spouse
How to survive your spouse's depression
Suffering in silence: when your spouse is depressed
Good luck.
posted by Miko at 7:41 PM on February 26, 2018 [46 favorites]
You can't force a person to go to therapy but you can set a boundary that you will leave if she doesn't at least go talk to someone and take various other steps to get her shit together.
There's no good way to do this, but I think a kinder way to do this is to not corner her and hit her with a firehose of communication, just set a date and give her some time knowing the talk is coming. "Hey, we need a couple of kid-free hours this Sunday, let's say 2pm, to sit down and talk about the future, okay?"
It's going to suck. She's going to freak out. She...maybe should, a little. When people are staying in an avoidant hover pattern like she is, every day she's waiting for this shoe to drop. It'll ultimately be a relief to get it over with, and maybe unstick her enough to feel able make some changes. When the time comes, you can bring an agenda if you want, or bullet points on a piece of paper, that say something like:
- The plan for improving job search?
- Her anxiety/depression; treatment
- me starting therapy myself
- don't want to leave but clearly have to start preparing for the possibility
--- requirements: work, try to get back on orig financial/life plan, mental health priority, improved communication (probably going to require therapy, group/class for marriage comm, weekly mtgs with each other to maintain, no add'l children w/o mh support)
She doesn't need scolding, that shouldn't be what this is for. On the job search, ask her to be honest with you about what she really wants to happen (does she not want to work and this is her way of saying so w/o confrontation? what's going on?), tell her what her budget is for either getting a career counselor or working with an expert to improve her resume, tell her what you feel like is a reasonable timeframe to find and begin volunteer work or other regular networking/next steps and ask her whether she agrees.
Do tell her in simple terms how you are feeling and what your expectations are. Get feedback from her on whether you are misunderstanding or mischaracterizing or if she thinks you are being unrealistic. Finish this talk with an agreed-upon weekly family meeting time in which all these goals and plans will be reviewed, and this meeting needs to be a non-negotiable part of your marriage because you're both terrible communicators and aren't going to do it spontaneously and it is no longer possible to raise a child, much less maintain any type of cohesive life, without communication.
And you need to go to therapy yourself. Maybe you should already have an appointment booked by the time you have this meeting with her, but do not use that as an excuse to continue to not have this conversation with her and an excuse to continue to not go to therapy. Do both things, sooner than another 5 years from now. Give yourself a deadline, like two weeks. That's a reasonable amount of time to get both those things done.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:06 PM on February 26, 2018 [8 favorites]
There's no good way to do this, but I think a kinder way to do this is to not corner her and hit her with a firehose of communication, just set a date and give her some time knowing the talk is coming. "Hey, we need a couple of kid-free hours this Sunday, let's say 2pm, to sit down and talk about the future, okay?"
It's going to suck. She's going to freak out. She...maybe should, a little. When people are staying in an avoidant hover pattern like she is, every day she's waiting for this shoe to drop. It'll ultimately be a relief to get it over with, and maybe unstick her enough to feel able make some changes. When the time comes, you can bring an agenda if you want, or bullet points on a piece of paper, that say something like:
- The plan for improving job search?
- Her anxiety/depression; treatment
- me starting therapy myself
- don't want to leave but clearly have to start preparing for the possibility
--- requirements: work, try to get back on orig financial/life plan, mental health priority, improved communication (probably going to require therapy, group/class for marriage comm, weekly mtgs with each other to maintain, no add'l children w/o mh support)
She doesn't need scolding, that shouldn't be what this is for. On the job search, ask her to be honest with you about what she really wants to happen (does she not want to work and this is her way of saying so w/o confrontation? what's going on?), tell her what her budget is for either getting a career counselor or working with an expert to improve her resume, tell her what you feel like is a reasonable timeframe to find and begin volunteer work or other regular networking/next steps and ask her whether she agrees.
Do tell her in simple terms how you are feeling and what your expectations are. Get feedback from her on whether you are misunderstanding or mischaracterizing or if she thinks you are being unrealistic. Finish this talk with an agreed-upon weekly family meeting time in which all these goals and plans will be reviewed, and this meeting needs to be a non-negotiable part of your marriage because you're both terrible communicators and aren't going to do it spontaneously and it is no longer possible to raise a child, much less maintain any type of cohesive life, without communication.
And you need to go to therapy yourself. Maybe you should already have an appointment booked by the time you have this meeting with her, but do not use that as an excuse to continue to not have this conversation with her and an excuse to continue to not go to therapy. Do both things, sooner than another 5 years from now. Give yourself a deadline, like two weeks. That's a reasonable amount of time to get both those things done.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:06 PM on February 26, 2018 [8 favorites]
Hear, hear. I came back in just to say: no matter what else, get therapy yourself. Right now, individual therapy, as soon as you can find a decent person and book it. You can ask your doctor's office for recommendations.
It will equip you so much better to deal with this kind of thing. I just read back your old questions and you've been dealing with this for far too long. IT's not just a problem with communication - you have been selling yourself short, letting your dreams go and draining off your own energy. That's not what you do when you love yourself and you are emphatically not required to do it for anyone else in this life. You could stand to invest in yourself a little. A therapist can actually support you, help you feel better, encourage you and give you concrete strategies to try and someone to check in with to make sure you're making progress. They are on your side. Do what Lyn never describes but absolutely get started by booking an appointment for yourself. No matter what comes - no change, dramatic change, even positive change - you will really be able to use that supportive relationship.
posted by Miko at 8:19 PM on February 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
It will equip you so much better to deal with this kind of thing. I just read back your old questions and you've been dealing with this for far too long. IT's not just a problem with communication - you have been selling yourself short, letting your dreams go and draining off your own energy. That's not what you do when you love yourself and you are emphatically not required to do it for anyone else in this life. You could stand to invest in yourself a little. A therapist can actually support you, help you feel better, encourage you and give you concrete strategies to try and someone to check in with to make sure you're making progress. They are on your side. Do what Lyn never describes but absolutely get started by booking an appointment for yourself. No matter what comes - no change, dramatic change, even positive change - you will really be able to use that supportive relationship.
posted by Miko at 8:19 PM on February 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
You say:
I feel like I'm just going to describe a situation we both know is bad, and ask for a solution that she already knows is important but feels unable to provide, leaving everyone feeling upset but accomplishing nothing.
But earlier you say:
I know she should be volunteering, networking, or getting some kind of training, but she isn't. I'm certain she's depressed, but she resists anything I suggest about getting counseling.
She can't just make somebody hire her, but those things you describe that she's not doing are all things she can do. It sounds like the counseling will probably have to come first. She's shut down, and she needs help figuring out how to start up again. You've shown remarkable patience with her, but past a certain point patience can be enabling a bad status quo. You can let her know you are still there for her while also letting her know that things need to change.
This sounds nuts, but I might actually consider having a kid?
Please don't do this. Having children is not a good way to try and fix a relationship, financial problems or somebody's mental health.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 8:48 PM on February 26, 2018 [21 favorites]
I feel like I'm just going to describe a situation we both know is bad, and ask for a solution that she already knows is important but feels unable to provide, leaving everyone feeling upset but accomplishing nothing.
But earlier you say:
I know she should be volunteering, networking, or getting some kind of training, but she isn't. I'm certain she's depressed, but she resists anything I suggest about getting counseling.
She can't just make somebody hire her, but those things you describe that she's not doing are all things she can do. It sounds like the counseling will probably have to come first. She's shut down, and she needs help figuring out how to start up again. You've shown remarkable patience with her, but past a certain point patience can be enabling a bad status quo. You can let her know you are still there for her while also letting her know that things need to change.
This sounds nuts, but I might actually consider having a kid?
Please don't do this. Having children is not a good way to try and fix a relationship, financial problems or somebody's mental health.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 8:48 PM on February 26, 2018 [21 favorites]
I came in here to say that I can really relate to this, as I have been in your wife's situation (long-term period of unemployment that caused me depression). My husband was also struggling with figuring out how to best support me, and he found a lot of great answers that helped him re-frame how he spoke to me about it in a previous thread on Metafilter. In searching for that thread, I realized you were the one that had originally posted that thread, and that like Iris Gambol said, you've been posting this question since 2014, alternately referring to her as your girlfriend or your wife.
5 years is a very long time to be going through this, and I really sympathize with you.
I agree with previous commenters that mental health is the primary concern here. One thing that really helped me was counselling. CBT in particular. Just a few sessions were enough for me to break out of negative thinking patterns enough to re-gain some function. The impact of long-term unemployment on somebody's self-worth cannot be understated, particularly when like your wife or myself, we value independence and have a strong desire to work outside the home/not be stay-at-home parents. Like your wife, I was also very averse to counselling, but my husband scheduled an appointment for me with our primary care physician (just a general check-up), and accompanied me there and held my hand as I cried in the doctor's office. The depression was very, very obvious and I simply could not hide it when the doctor asked.
posted by spicytunaroll at 9:21 PM on February 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
5 years is a very long time to be going through this, and I really sympathize with you.
I agree with previous commenters that mental health is the primary concern here. One thing that really helped me was counselling. CBT in particular. Just a few sessions were enough for me to break out of negative thinking patterns enough to re-gain some function. The impact of long-term unemployment on somebody's self-worth cannot be understated, particularly when like your wife or myself, we value independence and have a strong desire to work outside the home/not be stay-at-home parents. Like your wife, I was also very averse to counselling, but my husband scheduled an appointment for me with our primary care physician (just a general check-up), and accompanied me there and held my hand as I cried in the doctor's office. The depression was very, very obvious and I simply could not hide it when the doctor asked.
posted by spicytunaroll at 9:21 PM on February 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
Is your wife aware of the specific details of your financial situation, or are you also handling all the paperwork?
One thing to bring up when talking with your wife is that there are different types of therapy - it doesn't have to be the 'tell me about your mother' type (CBT, for example, is more of a practical/coaching approach). It also doesn't have to be unlimited - she could agree to do it for, say, half a year and reevaluate then.
Has she applied at temp agencies at all? She used to be a teacher - could she tutor as a part-time thing in the meanwhile? Something like this to at least help build up a financial cushion? Does she get out of the house on her own at all to do things other than errands?
FWIW, "I need your help" seems like a good way to frame your concerns to someone sensitive (though I say this without knowing how your previous conversations on the subject have gone down).
posted by trig at 2:14 AM on February 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
One thing to bring up when talking with your wife is that there are different types of therapy - it doesn't have to be the 'tell me about your mother' type (CBT, for example, is more of a practical/coaching approach). It also doesn't have to be unlimited - she could agree to do it for, say, half a year and reevaluate then.
Has she applied at temp agencies at all? She used to be a teacher - could she tutor as a part-time thing in the meanwhile? Something like this to at least help build up a financial cushion? Does she get out of the house on her own at all to do things other than errands?
FWIW, "I need your help" seems like a good way to frame your concerns to someone sensitive (though I say this without knowing how your previous conversations on the subject have gone down).
posted by trig at 2:14 AM on February 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Tell her you want to tackle this as a team, together. Look at her resume and general cover letter. Offer tips where appropriate. Show her how to make a tracking sheet for job applications. Show her new/different job board sites. You absolutely must tackle this as a team if you want this to work. I know this from experience.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 6:51 AM on February 27, 2018
posted by misanthropicsarah at 6:51 AM on February 27, 2018
Here's the thing: unless she gets therapy, it's likely she'll keep stumbling. Yes, you can probably hold her hand through the process of getting a temp position or PT job. Yes, you can outline steps like volunteering and networking and even walk through the actual process at her side. But are the issues really going to go away just because you do that? Will she be able to keep the job? Will she keep showing up to the volunteer gig? Will the kind of job you find meet your income expectations? Will she still be willing to make the same kinds of long-term plans you want to make?
It is also confusing that in your questions, she's sometimes your wife and sometimes your girlfriend. Not to put a fine point on it, but these are different situations. You have no legal obligations to someone who you're not legally married to, and leaving is a lot simpler, should it come to that. That is something you should be more clear on with yourself (and your therapist) than you are here with us. If you are legally married, the issues become more complicated, and the extra work of investing in trying to make it work is the best place to begin.
I think you have to ask yourself: would you stay in this relationship if you knew for certain that she would never change?
Because she may never change. Only if that is acceptable to you should you continue not doing anything.
Also consider the possibility that it does change, but for the worse. You struggle to afford the child's college, and he drops out halfway so you lose all the money you invested, and comes back to live at home and you have to support him. Or you or your wife/girlfriend develops a chronic or serious acute illness. Or you become unable to work or you lose your job. Or she requires expensive medical care. Or your housing costs go up.
Every day this isn't working, you're losing ground. And so far you're just accepting it. Your house is on fire. Please go see a therapist to get started. Don't try to fix someone else first. The more I think about it, the more it seems like it's time for you to put your own oxygen mask on. Go get help.
posted by Miko at 7:12 AM on February 27, 2018 [10 favorites]
It is also confusing that in your questions, she's sometimes your wife and sometimes your girlfriend. Not to put a fine point on it, but these are different situations. You have no legal obligations to someone who you're not legally married to, and leaving is a lot simpler, should it come to that. That is something you should be more clear on with yourself (and your therapist) than you are here with us. If you are legally married, the issues become more complicated, and the extra work of investing in trying to make it work is the best place to begin.
I think you have to ask yourself: would you stay in this relationship if you knew for certain that she would never change?
Because she may never change. Only if that is acceptable to you should you continue not doing anything.
Also consider the possibility that it does change, but for the worse. You struggle to afford the child's college, and he drops out halfway so you lose all the money you invested, and comes back to live at home and you have to support him. Or you or your wife/girlfriend develops a chronic or serious acute illness. Or you become unable to work or you lose your job. Or she requires expensive medical care. Or your housing costs go up.
Every day this isn't working, you're losing ground. And so far you're just accepting it. Your house is on fire. Please go see a therapist to get started. Don't try to fix someone else first. The more I think about it, the more it seems like it's time for you to put your own oxygen mask on. Go get help.
posted by Miko at 7:12 AM on February 27, 2018 [10 favorites]
I agree with others that her mental health needs to be treated first. (Anecdata: I watched someone close to me struggle with getting out of a bad job for years. They would go on interviews and vibrate with anxiety about it for days before and afterward. They had anxiety and depression. Once they got treatment for that, they got a new good job in a matter of months. They take medication and it transformed their life.)
Until she gets treatment for anxiety and depression, all those things she should be doing probably seem impossible to her. Since she is resistant to the idea of therapy, would she consider medication? I know it's kind of sacrilege to consider medication without therapy but her suffering (and your suffering) have gone on so long! Maybe you could frame it as a medical issue (which it is) and see if she'd be willing to talk to a doctor about it?
Therapy for you is a good idea probably. That is within your control.
posted by purple_bird at 9:30 AM on February 27, 2018
Until she gets treatment for anxiety and depression, all those things she should be doing probably seem impossible to her. Since she is resistant to the idea of therapy, would she consider medication? I know it's kind of sacrilege to consider medication without therapy but her suffering (and your suffering) have gone on so long! Maybe you could frame it as a medical issue (which it is) and see if she'd be willing to talk to a doctor about it?
Therapy for you is a good idea probably. That is within your control.
posted by purple_bird at 9:30 AM on February 27, 2018
I wanted to give you advice on how to communicate with your wife. I’ve had many difficult discussions with my husband, and I think the key is to get across how deadly serious you are about the extent of the problem and it’s impact on you and the future of your relationship.
Then I realized, are you deadly serious? This sounds horribly stressful and five years is a long time. You’ve portrayed yourself as very passive in communication and identified its source, which is great. But are you ready to sit with the fact that your choices - I peeked at your history - with her have been pretty passive and that you were concerned about this in 2015?
I think you have a great struggle here with yourself. Yes, you deserve an adult partner who addresses issues related to your family’s wellbeing. Yes you are correct that not being able to save up for a car is not good. Yes, it is super hard to set a line with your partner and say “I need an active partner and if that’s not you, I can’t continue.” But that’s what you need to do.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:28 AM on February 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Then I realized, are you deadly serious? This sounds horribly stressful and five years is a long time. You’ve portrayed yourself as very passive in communication and identified its source, which is great. But are you ready to sit with the fact that your choices - I peeked at your history - with her have been pretty passive and that you were concerned about this in 2015?
I think you have a great struggle here with yourself. Yes, you deserve an adult partner who addresses issues related to your family’s wellbeing. Yes you are correct that not being able to save up for a car is not good. Yes, it is super hard to set a line with your partner and say “I need an active partner and if that’s not you, I can’t continue.” But that’s what you need to do.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:28 AM on February 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
You don’t need to stay married at all costs. The core of the problem is that you’re enabling her and she has no incentive to change.
posted by Kwadeng at 4:08 AM on February 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Kwadeng at 4:08 AM on February 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
What does she do on a typical work day?
I have seen a few situations like this resolve when one spouse went into manager mode for the depressed or otherwise non functioning spouse. It is extremely hard on the manager spouse and you will likely require therapy to revive sexual attraction and intimacy to your spouse once they become an adult again.
But here's the thing--you're already in parent mode for your wife. You're just adopting an extremely permissive style. I haven't read your other posts. But it sounds like you do all the adulting and she presumably sits at home and entertains herself in between maybe haphazardly applying for jobs. This is what high school dropouts living at home do. This is not an acceptable lifestyle choice for an adult spouse in her late thirties.
If she won't go to counseling and she won't try medical treatment, either you 1) manage her for a while to help her get better or 2) accept that your life will always be this way or 3) leave her.
You seemed to have already ruled out 2 and 3. So what you have left is 1. Frankly it might kill you and your avoidant personality, but you could try.
All I can tell you is what this looks like in my two real world examples. You sit down, you have a talk, and sans professional help the spouse agrees to let the working spouse become their life manager. Basically you, as the functioning spouse, create structure and boundaries for the other person very similar to how you might work with a struggling teen. You schedule their day. You physically help them apply for jobs and volunteering opportunities. You assign them daily household tasks. Forms of distraction such as TV, video games, and internet are turned off without your supervision. It's a lot of exhausting and constant checking in and helping out and pushing.
Like I said, it's extreme. But I've seen it work in two relationships. The depressed spouses ended up finally going to counseling, obtaining psychiatric help, getting meaningful jobs, and salvaging their marriage.
posted by ticktickatick at 11:50 AM on February 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have seen a few situations like this resolve when one spouse went into manager mode for the depressed or otherwise non functioning spouse. It is extremely hard on the manager spouse and you will likely require therapy to revive sexual attraction and intimacy to your spouse once they become an adult again.
But here's the thing--you're already in parent mode for your wife. You're just adopting an extremely permissive style. I haven't read your other posts. But it sounds like you do all the adulting and she presumably sits at home and entertains herself in between maybe haphazardly applying for jobs. This is what high school dropouts living at home do. This is not an acceptable lifestyle choice for an adult spouse in her late thirties.
If she won't go to counseling and she won't try medical treatment, either you 1) manage her for a while to help her get better or 2) accept that your life will always be this way or 3) leave her.
You seemed to have already ruled out 2 and 3. So what you have left is 1. Frankly it might kill you and your avoidant personality, but you could try.
All I can tell you is what this looks like in my two real world examples. You sit down, you have a talk, and sans professional help the spouse agrees to let the working spouse become their life manager. Basically you, as the functioning spouse, create structure and boundaries for the other person very similar to how you might work with a struggling teen. You schedule their day. You physically help them apply for jobs and volunteering opportunities. You assign them daily household tasks. Forms of distraction such as TV, video games, and internet are turned off without your supervision. It's a lot of exhausting and constant checking in and helping out and pushing.
Like I said, it's extreme. But I've seen it work in two relationships. The depressed spouses ended up finally going to counseling, obtaining psychiatric help, getting meaningful jobs, and salvaging their marriage.
posted by ticktickatick at 11:50 AM on February 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
"I feel like my wife would take a job if one fell into her lap,"
That may not be true. I bet that would be an interesting conversation to have. What would a job have to be like for her to want to take it? Part-time so she's home when her kid is? full-time to make the most money? In "her field"? At the same or better job title as the last job she held? With a salary more than $N? Never dealing with the public? Talk about what her criteria really are. It might be that there isn't a job out there for her in her current mental state. Maybe there's a conversation to be had about specific goals for her mental health that would allow her to do certain things.
Talk about why you think she should get a job. Everything you've spelled out is about money and it's all very reasonable. Talk with her about stages - if she had a part-time job working 15 hours/week at minimum wage, what would that do for your household? Set some specific milestones (eg "saving $N/month for college and retirement") Consider how much it would take to be a real value-add, and make sure that what you're hoping for matches up with what she may realistically be capable of.
posted by aimedwander at 1:16 PM on February 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
That may not be true. I bet that would be an interesting conversation to have. What would a job have to be like for her to want to take it? Part-time so she's home when her kid is? full-time to make the most money? In "her field"? At the same or better job title as the last job she held? With a salary more than $N? Never dealing with the public? Talk about what her criteria really are. It might be that there isn't a job out there for her in her current mental state. Maybe there's a conversation to be had about specific goals for her mental health that would allow her to do certain things.
Talk about why you think she should get a job. Everything you've spelled out is about money and it's all very reasonable. Talk with her about stages - if she had a part-time job working 15 hours/week at minimum wage, what would that do for your household? Set some specific milestones (eg "saving $N/month for college and retirement") Consider how much it would take to be a real value-add, and make sure that what you're hoping for matches up with what she may realistically be capable of.
posted by aimedwander at 1:16 PM on February 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
ask for a solution that she already knows is important but feels unable to provide, leaving everyone feeling upset but accomplishing nothing.
Honestly, I'm not sure if you *can* ask. She hasn't worked in years. It's a tough job market. She doesn't seem to be able to handle even an entry level job, according to you. She's depressed but refuses to get counseling. Even if you begged and pleaded with her to get a job, it doesn't sound like she can handle getting one or that she would even qualify for any. She cannot provide you with this at this time.
"Here's the thing: unless she gets therapy, it's likely she'll keep stumbling. Yes, you can probably hold her hand through the process of getting a temp position or PT job. Yes, you can outline steps like volunteering and networking and even walk through the actual process at her side. But are the issues really going to go away just because you do that? Will she be able to keep the job? Will she keep showing up to the volunteer gig? Will the kind of job you find meet your income expectations? Will she still be willing to make the same kinds of long-term plans you want to make?
I think you have to ask yourself: would you stay in this relationship if you knew for certain that she would never change?"
Seconding that. She's not gonna get a job like, this year. Or maybe next year either. She needs to get herself into some kind of shape where she is employable and able to maintain even a shitty retail job and she doesn't sound like she's even close to that yet. A lot of work and probably therapy and job training needs to go down and if she doesn't want to do that stuff...I don't think she'll be working. I think you need to make life plans assuming she won't be working again unless she herself wants to work at working.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:40 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I'm not sure if you *can* ask. She hasn't worked in years. It's a tough job market. She doesn't seem to be able to handle even an entry level job, according to you. She's depressed but refuses to get counseling. Even if you begged and pleaded with her to get a job, it doesn't sound like she can handle getting one or that she would even qualify for any. She cannot provide you with this at this time.
"Here's the thing: unless she gets therapy, it's likely she'll keep stumbling. Yes, you can probably hold her hand through the process of getting a temp position or PT job. Yes, you can outline steps like volunteering and networking and even walk through the actual process at her side. But are the issues really going to go away just because you do that? Will she be able to keep the job? Will she keep showing up to the volunteer gig? Will the kind of job you find meet your income expectations? Will she still be willing to make the same kinds of long-term plans you want to make?
I think you have to ask yourself: would you stay in this relationship if you knew for certain that she would never change?"
Seconding that. She's not gonna get a job like, this year. Or maybe next year either. She needs to get herself into some kind of shape where she is employable and able to maintain even a shitty retail job and she doesn't sound like she's even close to that yet. A lot of work and probably therapy and job training needs to go down and if she doesn't want to do that stuff...I don't think she'll be working. I think you need to make life plans assuming she won't be working again unless she herself wants to work at working.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:40 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
So, I think on a second sit-down with this, a few things occurred to me.
First, you and your wife discussed you both being employed before you got married/committed - but that was when she was working at an intellectual, high-status job that she enjoyed, right? That is a really different conversation than "I need you to take a stressful, entry-level job that doesn't satisfy you and in fact makes you miserable, so we can save for retirement."
Your wife previously had problems with feeling disrespected at her job. I promise you that those feelings are not going to go away with an entry level retail or other job - instead, it's going to be even worse, as she feels overqualified for the job and has 23 year olds telling her what to do. This is actually a much harder ask than you may realize, especially because your employment currently covers the bills. And she's not going to get better than an entry level job with an enormous resume gap, and being fired and essentially blacklisted from her last job.
I know that before you reached this stage of commitment you talked about "I want us both to work", but I think you two need to, with a realistic look at her options, have that conversation again from square one. Not, "You promised this five years ago and we are still not doing it", but "Hey. Let's talk about what we want our marriage to look like." And it would be helpful if you were open to something like "I can only work part time, entry level work is too stressful" - if your bills are being covered by your job, maybe her pay could feed directly into a savings account? There's a lot of options, but it's not going to really get out there if you're still thinking of this as a promise she broke.
posted by corb at 11:52 PM on February 28, 2018
First, you and your wife discussed you both being employed before you got married/committed - but that was when she was working at an intellectual, high-status job that she enjoyed, right? That is a really different conversation than "I need you to take a stressful, entry-level job that doesn't satisfy you and in fact makes you miserable, so we can save for retirement."
Your wife previously had problems with feeling disrespected at her job. I promise you that those feelings are not going to go away with an entry level retail or other job - instead, it's going to be even worse, as she feels overqualified for the job and has 23 year olds telling her what to do. This is actually a much harder ask than you may realize, especially because your employment currently covers the bills. And she's not going to get better than an entry level job with an enormous resume gap, and being fired and essentially blacklisted from her last job.
I know that before you reached this stage of commitment you talked about "I want us both to work", but I think you two need to, with a realistic look at her options, have that conversation again from square one. Not, "You promised this five years ago and we are still not doing it", but "Hey. Let's talk about what we want our marriage to look like." And it would be helpful if you were open to something like "I can only work part time, entry level work is too stressful" - if your bills are being covered by your job, maybe her pay could feed directly into a savings account? There's a lot of options, but it's not going to really get out there if you're still thinking of this as a promise she broke.
posted by corb at 11:52 PM on February 28, 2018
"I feel like my wife would take a job if one fell into her lap,"
That may not be true.
I agree with this. I don't know your wife and anything I say on this will sound harsh, but she may not actually want a job. Any job. Maybe she did ten years ago, or maybe she was just telling you what you wanted to hear. She either is so depressed that the thought of a job is debilitating, or she is lazy and hoping that after five or so years you'll give up. It could also be a combination of both. She wouldn't be the first person who wants to live life as an adult dependent. Not all gold-diggers go after millionaires; for some, a roof over their head and food on the table is enough. Maybe she thinks that as a middle-aged woman with a son, you're her best chance at stability and never having to work again.
I know. Harsh. It could be depression. It could be something else. It could be a rainbow of reasons. But five years is a long time to put you through this and refuse counseling and treatment. Your spouse's needs and depression or otherwise do not negate your needs.
If you're not okay being her sugar daddy for the rest of your life, you need to seriously rethink if this marriage is worth it to you. Would you be happy supporting an unemployed stay-at-home adult for the rest of your life? Is what you get out of the relationship worth being the sole provider until you die? Realistically, that's where you are headed. There is a slim chance things could turn around in your favor, but it is very unlikely.
posted by ticktickatick at 4:41 PM on March 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
That may not be true.
I agree with this. I don't know your wife and anything I say on this will sound harsh, but she may not actually want a job. Any job. Maybe she did ten years ago, or maybe she was just telling you what you wanted to hear. She either is so depressed that the thought of a job is debilitating, or she is lazy and hoping that after five or so years you'll give up. It could also be a combination of both. She wouldn't be the first person who wants to live life as an adult dependent. Not all gold-diggers go after millionaires; for some, a roof over their head and food on the table is enough. Maybe she thinks that as a middle-aged woman with a son, you're her best chance at stability and never having to work again.
I know. Harsh. It could be depression. It could be something else. It could be a rainbow of reasons. But five years is a long time to put you through this and refuse counseling and treatment. Your spouse's needs and depression or otherwise do not negate your needs.
If you're not okay being her sugar daddy for the rest of your life, you need to seriously rethink if this marriage is worth it to you. Would you be happy supporting an unemployed stay-at-home adult for the rest of your life? Is what you get out of the relationship worth being the sole provider until you die? Realistically, that's where you are headed. There is a slim chance things could turn around in your favor, but it is very unlikely.
posted by ticktickatick at 4:41 PM on March 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
Chuck: I had a similar dynamic with my ex-wife (of 15 years). She is intelligent, educated, sensitive and struggles to keep a job. I feel like she was either in school or unemployed for about half our marriage, and her median job length when employed (prior to involuntary job losses) was perhaps a year. This meant that I was kinda in your shoes— the one with always reliable income.
And yes, I was anxious and avoidant and non-confrontational. And her sensitive nature funneled into a temper that shut down any conversation on difficult topics. Her style, really, was to threaten to end our marriage if she didn’t get her way. And I was anxious about divorce, so she always got her way.
What changed? I became seriously depressed. Then started on Zoloft. My anxiety was checked, by the Zoloft. And I no longer feared divorce. So when she demanded X, or we are done, I countered with a demand for couples and individual therapy for both of us.
She dropped her demand for X, but I persisted on insisting on therapy for our marriage to continue. Because I couldn’t stay married to someone who was so hampered by her own mental health, and divorce no longer terrified me.
So we are divorcing. I feel terribly for our kids. But I am happy and whole myself.
This is all to say... if you’ve not tried ssri meds... I know you found CBT helpful for depression, but an SSRI may help you articulate what you want to yourself and to the world around you, leaving you more fulfilled (and your wife no longer enabled to wallow).
posted by Doc_Sock at 6:41 PM on March 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
And yes, I was anxious and avoidant and non-confrontational. And her sensitive nature funneled into a temper that shut down any conversation on difficult topics. Her style, really, was to threaten to end our marriage if she didn’t get her way. And I was anxious about divorce, so she always got her way.
What changed? I became seriously depressed. Then started on Zoloft. My anxiety was checked, by the Zoloft. And I no longer feared divorce. So when she demanded X, or we are done, I countered with a demand for couples and individual therapy for both of us.
She dropped her demand for X, but I persisted on insisting on therapy for our marriage to continue. Because I couldn’t stay married to someone who was so hampered by her own mental health, and divorce no longer terrified me.
So we are divorcing. I feel terribly for our kids. But I am happy and whole myself.
This is all to say... if you’ve not tried ssri meds... I know you found CBT helpful for depression, but an SSRI may help you articulate what you want to yourself and to the world around you, leaving you more fulfilled (and your wife no longer enabled to wallow).
posted by Doc_Sock at 6:41 PM on March 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
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You can probably find therapists near you who charge on a sliding scale for lower-income people. It'll likely feel expensive at first, but remember, if it helps get her working, the second income will more than compensate for the initial outlay.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:04 PM on February 26, 2018 [5 favorites]