I think I'm gay. Why does attention from gay men feel violent to me?

January 27, 2018 10:13 AM

I don't think, at 28 years of age, that there's much use in denying the fact that the male form makes me feel and think things that don't occur ( at least not with the same intensity) to self-described straight men. I find some women attractive, but the threshold is much lower for men. Why then, does the mere thought of being intimate, emotionally or otherwise, with another man, make my skin crawl?

To clarify: I don't like feeling this way, and that would be true even if I weren't actually gay. I have and love gay friends. But, there is always a disconnect. Something I don't identify with about being gay. Which, in and of itself would be fine, right? I'd just avoid the label and do whatever felt right. But the thought of a) lying in bed with b) being romantic in any way with another man literally makes me queasy. Skin-crawling is really a very apt descriptor here.
I don't believe I've ever been sexually assaulted. I have an okay, if distant, relationship with my father and brother.
Some things to consider:
I do have a physical disability and am currently overweight, though hopefully that's changing.
I come from a traditional, though not religious Jewish family. They would be upset if I came out to them but are not the type to throw me out of the house and, I believe, would accept it in time.
I *don't* believe this is a question of whether I hate myself. I could be wrong, of course. It just feels like it's more complicated than that- like I don't identify with the whole thing and my trying to puts up red flags all over the place.
I have spent a considerable amount of time with gay people (mostly men) of all stripes. I enjoy their company, but am always very aware that *something* is different, and can tend to harp on that.
I don't vibe well with straight men after a while. I can become clingy and overly affectionate for the taste of all but the most securely masculine guys.
What do I do here? Why does affection from men make me want to run away screaming/dissociate? I should note that this isn't an issue with straight men and is something I will very much seek out from heteros.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (17 answers total)

It sounds like internalized homophobia to me. I've been there, done that: despite being super liberal and accepting of others, it was a lot harder accepting myself to say nothing of how disappointed I was in myself for still overcoming it in my 20s and 30s as a bisexual/pansexual woman. The cool thing is that you totally can deal with it and overcome it and go on to have wonderful, intimate relationships where you feel you can be vulnerable and loved for who you are. Acknowledging where you are is the first step -- it's hard so good for you!! Next I'd start by finding a LGBTQ-positive therapist or support group where you can work through these feelings. Chances are that with good support and a genuine effort by you, you'll make great progress in just a few months!

If I understand correctly, you're not out yet -- or at least are still closeted to your family -- so there's a lot of fear causing anxiety. I believe that when you come out, you'll feel much more comfortable as well but that's something you need to do on your own time. Speaking of which, I believe sexuality and sexual orientation exists on a spectrum rather than being black and white so it totally makes sense to have the attractions you do. Talking it out, dating when you start feeling ready, etc. is all going to help. I also understand how having a disability can make this process more complex. I hope others can give you more insight there but I will be looking for some podcasts I've heard about by people who are queer and live with disabilities. Best of luck to you! It's hard but things really do get better and easier. Whatever your orientation is, once you reflect and explore if more, you'll find yourself more confident and content than ever.
posted by smorgasbord at 10:39 AM on January 27, 2018 [15 favorites]

Some people are homoromantic but asexual. I have no way of knowing if that's the case for you, but it is a thing.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:40 AM on January 27, 2018 [11 favorites]

As a starting point, you might read "What is Internalized Homophobia?"
posted by Carol Anne at 10:40 AM on January 27, 2018

the mere thought of being intimate, emotionally or otherwise

You don't mention whether you feel sexual desire -- you mention 'attraction,' and that you 'feel and think things,' but do you ever have the desire to actively be sexual? If you don't, you may want to explore resources that discuss asexuality. It's possible to feel attraction to specific people, even to want specific and emotionally affectionate relationships with those specific people, but not want those relationships to be sexual ones -- and that's totally okay. If your 'queasy' or 'run away screaming' feelings come about because the thought of a specifically sexual relationship makes you feel anxious, because you feel like a close relationship has to be sexual, and if the idea of closeness without sex doesn't make you queasy, please know that you can totally have close and fulfilling but still non-sexual relationships, and that it's a totally normal human way to be.

(And, on preview, yes! you can totally identify as gay but also asexual!)
posted by halation at 10:42 AM on January 27, 2018 [11 favorites]

Here's the podcast that talks about the intersection of sex, disability, and queerness, Disability After Dark. Here's a HuffPost interview with its creator Andrew Gurza.
posted by smorgasbord at 10:45 AM on January 27, 2018 [2 favorites]

I believe sexuality and sexual orientation exists on a spectrum rather than being black and white so it totally makes sense to have the attractions you do.

A big fat yes to this! Also - labels can definitely be useful, when you're trying to figure out who you are, but they can also make it harder, in that you feel you ought to box yourself into one definition when you're still exploring.

So maybe keep in mind that you don't have to decide on one or more labels immediately, nor do you have to stick to them forever. If you'd like to try and categorise your feelings, try on "gay" or "bisexual" for a week, just in your mind. Just try living with the idea, and see how it feels - can you get comfortable with it? Try "asexual", try "pansexual", try "aromantic". See how they feel.

But remember that you can take as long as you want to figure this out, and you don't owe anyone to stick to one label or another if you recalibrate your desires at some point. Take all the time you need to figure out who you are.
posted by greenish at 11:03 AM on January 27, 2018 [3 favorites]

Internalized homophobia is bigger than we ever tend to realize, and it gets into some pretty weird spaces. I've never thought there was anything wrong with queerness or queer people, but I still have to live in this world and after a while things build up. You are almost certainly experiencing internalized homophobia as part of what's going on, especially since you're not out yet.

I wish you the best, and also - welcome to the community. I'm a queer woman, but if you want to chat, hit me up anytime.
posted by bile and syntax at 11:06 AM on January 27, 2018 [5 favorites]

A piece of advice about asexuality and internalized homophobia: Don't let "I am weirded out by sex, I must be asexual" become something you use to avoid exploring internalized homophobia (or issues around weight and/or disability). IME, a challenge for folks with marginalized sexualities and/or marginalized bodies is that it can feel easier to assume that our discomfort with sex is because we're asexual, not because we've been socialized to think that queer people, disabled people, overweight people or whomever should not be sexual.

This is something I've spent a lot of time parsing out as someone with a stigmatized body and sexuality, and one thing I've encountered from loving straight or normatively bodied friends is a readiness to reach for the asexuality explanation. They're not asexual, but because they find bodies and sexualities like mine weird or dismaying, they find "you probably don't want to have sex, so don't think about sex and you'll be happy" a very comforting thing to think. Basically, my queerness/bodily marginalizations seem woefully unsexy to them, so they're happier assuming that I am not a sexual person.

That's not to say that it's what people are doing here - I've always found metafilter way more sophisticated and better than that - or that you shouldn't identify as asexual if it feels right to you. It's just, be cautious in assigning discomfort with being sexual as a person with marginalized identities to "I don't actually want to be sexual" - social messaging is so strong about how queer, overweight, disabled and otherwise marginalized people should not have a sexuality.
posted by Frowner at 11:36 AM on January 27, 2018 [40 favorites]

Other people have mentioned perhaps you have some internalized homophobia, or perhaps you are gay but asexual, which may very well be the case. Coming from my own experience, when I read your post I wondered if there's a possibility that you might be trans? I am a trans man and a lot of the things you wrote, quoted below, echoed my thoughts and experiences when living as a vaguely "straight woman." Though I was mostly attracted to men and sometimes women, I felt jealous of the gay men I knew and didn't connect with the lesbian women and narratives of lesbian experience that I knew at all.

I have and love gay friends. But, there is always a disconnect. Something I don't identify with about being gay.

But the thought of a) lying in bed with b) being romantic in any way with another man literally makes me queasy. Skin-crawling is really a very apt descriptor here.

It just feels like it's more complicated than that- like I don't identify with the whole thing and my trying to puts up red flags all over the place.

I have spent a considerable amount of time with gay people (mostly men) of all stripes. I enjoy their company, but am always very aware that *something* is different, and can tend to harp on that.

I don't vibe well with straight men after a while. I can become clingy and overly affectionate

Being trans was something I always knew about myself in my subconscious but tried my hardest to push away for a very long time. Though I found women attractive sometimes, "lesbian" or "bi woman" did not quite feel right to me and thinking of physically or sexually being with a woman as a woman grossed me out. I did not really experience "sexual attraction" much -- I appreciated attractive people of any gender much like one appreciates a painting or a work of art. I thought briefly, "maybe I could just live as a lesbian who just doesn't have sex," seeing as I gave up the performance of femininity by that point, but it just really didn't jive with me, like your thoughts on living as a gay man.

Pre-transition and pre-coming out to myself, I had a roommate who was a gay man and one night he was hanging out with some of his gay male friends at the house with some of the rest of us roommates and I felt a longing for that experience. I told one of the other roommates later, not thinking much about it, that I was jealous of Gay Male Roommate because "he gets to be a man who likes men and I have to look like a woman if I want to date men."

Do you have any straight or even bi or queer female friends? Do you find you connect more with their experience or would prefer their experience in some way? You mentioned that you get clingy and affectionate with straight men -- I was always more drawn to gay men or somewhat effeminate men before realizing I was trans myself. (Realizing/accepting that I was bisexual didn't come until later in my medical transition, when I felt more comfortable in my body.) Also, another question that might be helpful to ask yourself is, "am I comfortable with my (male) body"? And other gender-related questions like, "am I comfortable with how I am seen in the world?", "would I feel more comfortable if I looked more feminine?", and maybe trying some small changes to your appearance, like nail polish or eyeliner or even maybe just growing out your hair a bit, if you realize the answer to any of those questions is actually "no."

I second greenish's advice above. "Trying on" a label was very helpful for me on the road to figuring things out for myself. At one point, I came to the conclusion I am "some kind of queer" and actually came to AskMefi myself when I was in that figuring-things-out stage too. Be kind and gentle to yourself as you figure these things out -- it can be shocking and scary and overwhelming all at the same time. I wish you all the best.
posted by sevenofspades at 12:03 PM on January 27, 2018 [14 favorites]

Here's a question: does the idea of being intimate with a woman (even though you're not attracted to her) give you the same skin-crawling feelings?

That's how I, as a non-expert, would try to make a distinction. If you find intimacy with both men and women repulsive, you're more likely to be asexual.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:22 PM on January 27, 2018

"Here's a question: does the idea of being intimate with a woman (even though you're not attracted to her) give you the same skin-crawling feelings?

That's how I, as a non-expert, would try to make a distinction. If you find intimacy with both men and women repulsive, you're more likely to be asexual."

With all due respect for those of whom this is a valid and important way to determine attraction, this would have not worked at all for me as a queer woman and trauma survivor. The skin-crawling feeling I've experienced at times in my life has been a symptom of PTSD; the discomfort and fears about attraction -- in fact, at times both fear of being attracted to and not being attracted to women -- were due to fears from internalized homophobia. So, it's definitely one way to consider for gaining insight but I'd argue that it's not necessarily going to be telling for you. I really agree with what Frowner said above about stigma and its effects on us, specifically how much it can distort our self-awareness.
posted by smorgasbord at 12:34 PM on January 27, 2018 [1 favorite]

Here to second the internalized homophobia idea. You just sound a bit like I did before I came out. I had friends who were lesbians, but I totally felt a difference and would harp on it. I was a little repulsed and went overboard about it. When I finally came out and was dating a woman, we went to a woman-focused/lesbian bookstore and I totally acted like the books were trying to make me join a cult. I laugh at it now, but at the time I was horrified that somehow I was now part of some club that I DID NOT want to be a part of.

Now, this may not be the case for you, but it sounded familiar so thought I’d share.
posted by jdl at 1:18 PM on January 27, 2018 [1 favorite]

If you were a woman who said you were attracted to men but found their attentions violent, I don't think people would say it was internalized hetrophobia. I think they'd just say that you were scared of men.

There are two sorts of sexual relationships or encounters: one is the mutually supportive one, and one is the exploitive one. All this #MeToo may be reminding you that when it comes to sexual exploitation of violence it is usually males who are the aggressors.

Many men have a sort of mental divide where they put people they can't have sex with on one side - and people they could have sex with on the other. If they happen to be a prick the people they could have sex with is also the subset of people they feel entitled to exploit.

It could be that you are instinctively being cautious because the wrong guy could be a contemptuous jerk who gives you thoroughly traumatic experiences. This is especially if you are looking for a close, mutually supportive relationship, so close that some people would describe you as clingy. There are a lot of guys who are just looking for a chance to get it off and will count it as a victory over you if they manage to get it off in you or on you, and doing so will make them feel contempt.

Now when I say there are a lot of guys like that, I don't mean they are hard to avoid if you are watching out for them. A lot of them do try to pass themselves off as nice guys - even think they are nice guys, but there are a LOT of other guys, decent guys, empathetic guys, well brought up guys - in fact the majority of guys would not fuck around with you if you made it clear you were not up for being fucked around with.

But being cautious and nervous and scared and repulsed before leaping into exploring sexual relationships? - that just seems sensible to me.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:04 PM on January 27, 2018 [7 favorites]

I think having fantasies and being excited by ideas and images that don't reflect what you actually enjoy, or would enjoy, in real life is totally normal in every arena, including human sexuality, and it doesn't imply an obligation to force yourself to do things that you find revolting in real life. You don't have to be physically intimate with men right now because you've decided these fantasies mean something particular about your sexuality. You aren't even obligated to come to conclusions about your sexuality. If you don't fundamentally consent to a form of sex or intimacy, there's no need to force yourself into it.

It sounds like you're having some struggles with sexuality and intimacy and figuring out how those things fit into your life. A therapist might help you integrate those peices in a way that feels safe for you.
posted by windykites at 2:44 PM on January 27, 2018 [5 favorites]

I was coming in to say something much like Jane--that, in addition to the other possibilities being discussed, there may be a legitimate element of anxiety or concern arising from the fact that your whole life you have probably been bombarded with images of male sexuality as being violent, aggressive, domineering, callous...and you may not feel particularly enthusiastic about getting involved in that kind of encounter. (Particularly because you do highlight the term "violent.") I wish I could say that that is merely anxiety, but, in fact, there are many many men, straight, gay, and otherwise, who are like that. However, there are also many who are not, and anxiety always makes the unknown possibility bigger and scarier than it might actually be. So...listen to and respect your discomfort when it comes to individual men you are considering, but do try to be aware that this image does not represent all reality and you shouldn't let fear of it shut you out altogether of an experience you otherwise desire.
posted by praemunire at 4:11 PM on January 27, 2018 [4 favorites]

Fear of intimacy is a thing. Being intimate with someone means they get to see who you really are, and that gets scary when you really hope they like you. You mention having a disability and being overweight. Maybe not everyone in your life has been perfectly cool about those things always? It's understandable that if you're more attracted to men, then the idea of revealing your body to a man would be scary, because you want him to like you, and you understand that not everyone will like you, and it hurts to be into someone who's not into you. If that's part of it, then you're ahead of the game by realizing you have a fear of intimacy and trying to open up despite the fear (only to men who seem truly kind, and while you have plenty of support in your life), because lots of people are in denial about such fears in themselves.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 3:46 AM on January 28, 2018 [2 favorites]

I don't think there's anything mysterious about this, I really don't.

You can be sexually oriented towards a narrow class of people and still find that you don't generally like the broader class of which they are a subset.

Like I can be a straight woman, sexually oriented towards the kind of guy I find attractive, and still find the majority of straight men to be people I don't want to be around, for all kinds of reasons, including but not limited to fear.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:38 AM on January 28, 2018 [4 favorites]