Did getting a car in NYC make you happier?
January 24, 2018 12:33 PM Subscribe
Long-term resident feeling really suffocated by the city.
I've been living here for five years and really miss nature. Going on hikes are this arduous ordeal of getting up at 5am to get myself to Grand Central (~60 minutes, as I live in South Brooklyn) and then getting on Metro North. (Or getting myself to Penn Station and NJ Transit/PATH). And then I'm pretty limited to what's on the train lines. Bike rides are even worse. (And I don't like riding in the city.) In addition, my family lives a few states away, and the dance required to go visit them is just wearing on me - either a full day on the train, a long-ass bus ride, or if I do decide to drive, going to NJ or CT to get a cheaper car rental and lugging shit on the two trains to get there.
A few things:
- I know the difficulties of owning a car here. I don't need to know stuff like, the insurance is expensive! Alternate side parking is a pain! I know all this.
- I owned a car before moving here. I know the maintenance and work required here too.
- I'm familiar with Metro North, NJ Transit, PATH, LIRR, and ZipCar, so I don't need info on that.
- I have some friends with cars already or with whom I carpool for certain things.
I just want information on the experience of getting a car to make it easier to get out of NYC. I'm feeling stifled enough that I'm thinking about moving to another city, but I'm just not ready for that yet for a lot of reasons. I wonder if I would be happier if it was easier to leave regularly.
I've been living here for five years and really miss nature. Going on hikes are this arduous ordeal of getting up at 5am to get myself to Grand Central (~60 minutes, as I live in South Brooklyn) and then getting on Metro North. (Or getting myself to Penn Station and NJ Transit/PATH). And then I'm pretty limited to what's on the train lines. Bike rides are even worse. (And I don't like riding in the city.) In addition, my family lives a few states away, and the dance required to go visit them is just wearing on me - either a full day on the train, a long-ass bus ride, or if I do decide to drive, going to NJ or CT to get a cheaper car rental and lugging shit on the two trains to get there.
A few things:
- I know the difficulties of owning a car here. I don't need to know stuff like, the insurance is expensive! Alternate side parking is a pain! I know all this.
- I owned a car before moving here. I know the maintenance and work required here too.
- I'm familiar with Metro North, NJ Transit, PATH, LIRR, and ZipCar, so I don't need info on that.
- I have some friends with cars already or with whom I carpool for certain things.
I just want information on the experience of getting a car to make it easier to get out of NYC. I'm feeling stifled enough that I'm thinking about moving to another city, but I'm just not ready for that yet for a lot of reasons. I wonder if I would be happier if it was easier to leave regularly.
I hope this is not non-responsive, but why not just rent one when you need it? Even if you go out every weekend, I'm pretty sure the cost of renting will be less than the cost of maintaining and storing a car full-time, even neglecting the cost of the car itself.
posted by ubiquity at 12:41 PM on January 24, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by ubiquity at 12:41 PM on January 24, 2018 [6 favorites]
I've sometimes thought about getting a car as well, to make it easier to visit my dad upstate, my mom when she lived in NJ, hiking, getting to Boston/Philly/DC/Montreal for the weekend...and every time I look into it and check price/rate/parking/insurance/etc, I come to the conclusion, again and again, that it's significantly cheaper to rent a car at the rental place next to work or home in the most expensive place to rent possible for a weekend than it is to own a car in the city. YMMV, but my assumptions were that I'd rent a car about 1.5 times a month.
After 12 years living in the city, I still don't own a car, and the math still works out to be cheaper to rent at the expensive places. I used to do the bus/train to CT or NJ to pick up a rental, but once I started considering buying a car, I realized it's cheaper to rent at the expensive places than it is to own a car.
posted by Grither at 12:43 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
After 12 years living in the city, I still don't own a car, and the math still works out to be cheaper to rent at the expensive places. I used to do the bus/train to CT or NJ to pick up a rental, but once I started considering buying a car, I realized it's cheaper to rent at the expensive places than it is to own a car.
posted by Grither at 12:43 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
My friend did this for the reasons you state and as far as I can tell she doesn't get out much more, but does do more "suburban" errands like BJs, Ikea, and malls. (Also she winds up doing airport pick-ups drop-offs, so beware.)
posted by kapers at 12:46 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by kapers at 12:46 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh, and renting at the expensive places also generally means 24hrs, so you don't have to be back at Newport Mall in NJ or Wayne NJ at 430pm on Sunday because the stupid rental places there close so damn early.
posted by Grither at 12:46 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Grither at 12:46 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: It is SO expensive to rent a car in the city. About $150 for one day. I can go to NJ or CT and pay that for 3-4 days. While I know just renting in the city a few times a year would be less expensive than owning, it just feels like such a waste of money. Like, that money could pay for my insurance and with just a bit more money I'd have my own actual car to do more stuff with. (Yes, I know there are many other costs other than insurance.)
posted by unannihilated at 12:46 PM on January 24, 2018
posted by unannihilated at 12:46 PM on January 24, 2018
I'm not exactly sure what sort of answer you're looking for, since you say you don't want to know any of the reasons not to own a car here. I had a car in the City when I moved back from California, and I kept instead of selling it before I came back because I wanted to be able to visit my family, who live varying degrees of far from the City. I loathed having a car here and basically the happiest day of my life up until then was the day I sold the thing. (I exaggerate but slightly.) And I loved the car itself! But having one in the City suuuuuuucked. Apart from the reasons you already listed, there's snow. Every time we had a heavy snow I had to spend around a zillion hours shoveling the thing out, and half the time it wouldn't drive out of the parking spot because of the ice. Don't even ask me about the time it snowed when I was out of town and the plow completely buried the car, and I do mean completely. After I sold the car, I signed up for Zipcar and haven't looked back.
posted by holborne at 12:50 PM on January 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by holborne at 12:50 PM on January 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
Assume you get lucky and manage to find an old beater that's still reliable, say for $5000. That's the cost of 33 car rentals at $150 each. How long would it take you to go through 33 car rentals? Will that old beater last that long? That's (obviously) not even factoring in maintenance, fuel, registration, and so on.
If I were in your position I too would absolutely hate to shell out $150 a pop but I'd just have to write it in a notebook and one day when the total I'd spent reached $5000 I'd wonder if it would have been better to buy that car all those years ago, and probably decide "no, it was not."
posted by komara at 12:52 PM on January 24, 2018 [15 favorites]
If I were in your position I too would absolutely hate to shell out $150 a pop but I'd just have to write it in a notebook and one day when the total I'd spent reached $5000 I'd wonder if it would have been better to buy that car all those years ago, and probably decide "no, it was not."
posted by komara at 12:52 PM on January 24, 2018 [15 favorites]
Response by poster: Answers like kapers gave are what I'm looking for.
posted by unannihilated at 12:52 PM on January 24, 2018
posted by unannihilated at 12:52 PM on January 24, 2018
Looking at the answers you've already received, I wonder how many are from people thinking that you mean Manhattan when you say NYC. Because being in another borough is a different experience. You already live in one of the boroughs, and it's not difficult to keep a car in South Brooklyn compared to one in Manhattan. The nice thing about having a car and wanting to travel around or shop: you can actually ignore Manhattan entirely if you want. You don't have to go through it to get to other places. And you can shop closer to home.
I live in Queens and own a car, and I have to say, it's a godsend. I lived here for years without one. I would never, ever go back. Especially now that I have kids. Except for going to and from work, we don't have to rely on other people or inconsistent public transportation schedules to get us from point a to point b. And it's far more peaceful being in your own car compared to being in crowds.
My family and I can pick up and go at a moment's notice. And we do. We travel to Long Island, or New Jersey. We explore things and take part in activities that really wouldn't be an option for us otherwise. Not every weekend, but enough that it's worth it. We save a tremendous amount of time and energy simply going to and from stores and supermarkets. We don't have to worry about the logistics of public transportation (except for our daily commutes) or being outside when the weather is terrible. In an emergency or when someone's sick, we can get where we need to go fast. Doctors offices, clinics etc., are a quick drive.
We do visit friends and family out of state as well. Philly, CT, NJ, MA etc. And in Rochester, Westchester and on Long Island. It's easier to plan those things when you don't have to chart out your route by trains and/or buses. Far comfortable and convenient.
posted by zarq at 1:00 PM on January 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
I live in Queens and own a car, and I have to say, it's a godsend. I lived here for years without one. I would never, ever go back. Especially now that I have kids. Except for going to and from work, we don't have to rely on other people or inconsistent public transportation schedules to get us from point a to point b. And it's far more peaceful being in your own car compared to being in crowds.
My family and I can pick up and go at a moment's notice. And we do. We travel to Long Island, or New Jersey. We explore things and take part in activities that really wouldn't be an option for us otherwise. Not every weekend, but enough that it's worth it. We save a tremendous amount of time and energy simply going to and from stores and supermarkets. We don't have to worry about the logistics of public transportation (except for our daily commutes) or being outside when the weather is terrible. In an emergency or when someone's sick, we can get where we need to go fast. Doctors offices, clinics etc., are a quick drive.
We do visit friends and family out of state as well. Philly, CT, NJ, MA etc. And in Rochester, Westchester and on Long Island. It's easier to plan those things when you don't have to chart out your route by trains and/or buses. Far comfortable and convenient.
posted by zarq at 1:00 PM on January 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
This question is in many ways neighbourhood / parking-situation-dependent. Literally every person I know who moved to NYC (specifically Brooklyn) and owned a car eventually got rid of it in frustration. The only person I know who has kept their car in NYC does enjoy the freedom of having that car... but that person grew up an hour outside the city, and drives home at least three times a month to visit, and likes to go surf on LI on a regular basis in summers. That person feels tied to their current apartment, despite increasing rent and an unresponsive landlord, because similarly affordable and commutable apartments wouldn't have a workable parking situation. (And they still have to pay for the subway, since no way in hell can you commute to work in a car in NYC.)
I know you're factoring in the insurance costs, but also consider potential parking ticket costs (literally every car owner I've known, even the most careful, racked up at least one, in some emergency or another) and break-in repairs. This can be neighbourhood-dependent but replacing car windows is *expensive* as heck; one friend got rid of the car after having it broken into twice in as many months. Renting feels wasteful, but you save on those costs, and cars depreciate, rather than appreciating, so buying a car is also a waste, from a certain point of view.
You will definitely be nagged by your friends into IKEA/Costco treks, summer beach trips, and, as mentioned upthread, airport runs. (If your friends are good friends, they will compensate you, which helps a little with upkeep but not that much.) Then again... you can easily get yourself to IKEA, Costco, the beach, and other outside-the-city trips your heart desires. But you may find yourself doing this less than you think.
posted by halation at 1:01 PM on January 24, 2018
I know you're factoring in the insurance costs, but also consider potential parking ticket costs (literally every car owner I've known, even the most careful, racked up at least one, in some emergency or another) and break-in repairs. This can be neighbourhood-dependent but replacing car windows is *expensive* as heck; one friend got rid of the car after having it broken into twice in as many months. Renting feels wasteful, but you save on those costs, and cars depreciate, rather than appreciating, so buying a car is also a waste, from a certain point of view.
You will definitely be nagged by your friends into IKEA/Costco treks, summer beach trips, and, as mentioned upthread, airport runs. (If your friends are good friends, they will compensate you, which helps a little with upkeep but not that much.) Then again... you can easily get yourself to IKEA, Costco, the beach, and other outside-the-city trips your heart desires. But you may find yourself doing this less than you think.
posted by halation at 1:01 PM on January 24, 2018
So, my experience is in Boston, not NYC, but I moved to the city with a car, then got rid of the car, then moved out of the city and got a car, and then moved back and kept the car. This was mostly in outer neighborhoods/inner suburbs (Brighton/Brookline/Somerville, if those mean anything), though I was living in the North End (more center-city, awful parking situation, and it was winter) when I actually got rid of the car. I have never commuted by car in the city.
Having your own car is definitely different. It means, for better or worse, not having to make a lot of micro-decisions about whether a trip is worth the cost of a car rental/share, because the marginal cost of any individual trip is pretty low (even though the carrying costs are high), whereas with a car share or whatever you have to pay the actual price of the trip. For me, that means I take a few more weekend trips, and I definitely do more errands by car. We certainly don't *need* to use the car to go grocery shopping, but we do almost every week.
So on the positive side, I take a few more weekend trips; I wish I got out to see my sister more often (she lives 20 miles away in the suburbs), but traffic heading out of the city during the week is so shitty I can rarely convince myself to do it. We go camping sometimes. A few things I do are easier with a car (it's nice to be able to drive to my chorus rehearsal in rain/winter).
Things that make having a car easier: I have a spouse and a driveway. We're a one-car couple, so we share the costs and the work (hasn't been too much work, though), and we both get the benefit of having the car. The driveway... I wasn't looking for a driveway when I chose this apartment. But now I'm not sure I could go back. When we talk about moving, having a driveway is pretty important to us. I don't know if I would bother with a car if I were single and had to park on the street.
So, I wouldn't exactly say having a car made me happier, but it did remove some stressors from my life in terms of wondering how I would get places or worrying over the costs of specific trips.
posted by mskyle at 1:16 PM on January 24, 2018
Having your own car is definitely different. It means, for better or worse, not having to make a lot of micro-decisions about whether a trip is worth the cost of a car rental/share, because the marginal cost of any individual trip is pretty low (even though the carrying costs are high), whereas with a car share or whatever you have to pay the actual price of the trip. For me, that means I take a few more weekend trips, and I definitely do more errands by car. We certainly don't *need* to use the car to go grocery shopping, but we do almost every week.
So on the positive side, I take a few more weekend trips; I wish I got out to see my sister more often (she lives 20 miles away in the suburbs), but traffic heading out of the city during the week is so shitty I can rarely convince myself to do it. We go camping sometimes. A few things I do are easier with a car (it's nice to be able to drive to my chorus rehearsal in rain/winter).
Things that make having a car easier: I have a spouse and a driveway. We're a one-car couple, so we share the costs and the work (hasn't been too much work, though), and we both get the benefit of having the car. The driveway... I wasn't looking for a driveway when I chose this apartment. But now I'm not sure I could go back. When we talk about moving, having a driveway is pretty important to us. I don't know if I would bother with a car if I were single and had to park on the street.
So, I wouldn't exactly say having a car made me happier, but it did remove some stressors from my life in terms of wondering how I would get places or worrying over the costs of specific trips.
posted by mskyle at 1:16 PM on January 24, 2018
In the last few years, many of my Brooklyn friends have started to get cars for exactly the reasons you state (weekend nature trips, accessing places that aren't easy to get to by train or bus, visiting friends/family in NJ or Philly or upstate, etc) and they definitely take advantage of the privileges a car allows them (including, of course, Ikea and the beach). They all live in parts of Brooklyn where street parking isn't too bad so don't pay for garages.
That being said, these people either make lots more money than me or have partners/two incomes, and the cost of a car isn't terribly restrictive. If I could afford it, I would definitely have a car. Taking advantage of generous friends who will let me borrow their car or give me rides has made me want one that much more. Rentals, zipcar, other options are pricey and equally inconvenient, so I get you. I think if you can afford it, you should def do it.
posted by greta simone at 1:21 PM on January 24, 2018
That being said, these people either make lots more money than me or have partners/two incomes, and the cost of a car isn't terribly restrictive. If I could afford it, I would definitely have a car. Taking advantage of generous friends who will let me borrow their car or give me rides has made me want one that much more. Rentals, zipcar, other options are pricey and equally inconvenient, so I get you. I think if you can afford it, you should def do it.
posted by greta simone at 1:21 PM on January 24, 2018
Oh also: getting a car is not some unalterable thing. If you get a car and you decide you like it, great! If you get a car and you decide it's not worth it, you can sell the car. (Obviously this works better if you buy a used car that's not depreciating much than if you buy a brand new car. Don't buy a brand new car.)
posted by mskyle at 1:23 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by mskyle at 1:23 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
We had one in Queens and it was great. We have family in DC and PA and it made it super easy to visit them once or twice a year. We definitely did more IKEA trips, and used it to drive to the Trader Joe's in Queens. But also to go hiking, to go to the beach. It was our preferred method of getting to Brooklyn to visit friends, since we could drive there in 30 minutes (as opposed to 90 on the subway). When we went on vacation, we would just park strategically and could usually get away with leaving the car in one spot for two weeks and only getting one parking ticket.
The things that made it workable were 1) my husband works from home, so could move the car on alternate side days and 2) our neighborhood had alternate side days only once per week.
posted by avocado_of_merriment at 1:25 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
The things that made it workable were 1) my husband works from home, so could move the car on alternate side days and 2) our neighborhood had alternate side days only once per week.
posted by avocado_of_merriment at 1:25 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I live in Western Queens and have a car. I got it about 6 months ago for reasons above: hiking, beach, grocery shopping and other errands. I'm sooo glad I have the car. Here's one of the key reasons: there are streets in my neighborhood that have no street cleaning. I can easily find parking on Sunday and leave the car the whole week. I went on vacation for 3 weeks and didn't have to worry tickets piling up on the car. If I had to move the car for street cleaning, I don't think it would be worth it to have it.
posted by Pineapplicious at 1:31 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Pineapplicious at 1:31 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Have you considered ZipCar? I got by with them in Boston for several years --- it would seem to me to sit in a Venn diagram that solves a lot of your problems. Gas and insurance are included in the rate, you can reserve on the spur of the moment via the app. The day rate is generally slightly more expensive than a one day rental at a traditional car place (though you might break even in the city), but probably more convenient than owning if your apartment doesn't have a dedicated parking space. (For me, I live in a busy neighborhood and often have to park my car a few blocks away from my place; when I was ZipCaring 80% of the time I was able to reserve a ZipCar at a lot that's two blocks away.)
The only problem I can see that it doesn't solve for you is the trips to your family --- I don't think they let you block out whole weekends with one vehicle, and there's definitely a surcharge if you put more than 200 or 250 miles or something on the car in a day. But if you're only doing that a couple times a year it might solve the rest of your problems --- you wake up one Sunday and feel like hitting the beach or the woods, 10 minutes later you'd be on the road.
posted by Diablevert at 1:32 PM on January 24, 2018
The only problem I can see that it doesn't solve for you is the trips to your family --- I don't think they let you block out whole weekends with one vehicle, and there's definitely a surcharge if you put more than 200 or 250 miles or something on the car in a day. But if you're only doing that a couple times a year it might solve the rest of your problems --- you wake up one Sunday and feel like hitting the beach or the woods, 10 minutes later you'd be on the road.
posted by Diablevert at 1:32 PM on January 24, 2018
We moved to western Queens last year and brought my wife's car with us. Although I feel a frustration similar to what you expressed—I miss hiking, I miss riding my bikes on quiet back roads—we have not used the car for any of those things since we moved here. We have not started it in months. Only inertia has kept us from getting rid of it. I think for me the reason is, yes, taking the Metro-North up to Breakneck Ridge is a pain, but so is spending two hours each way driving in shitty traffic on the highway, having to stress about parking when you get back (even in Queens), etc. For me, those four hours of highway driving pretty much cancel out the pleasure I get from going hiking, so I don't do it. At least on the train you can read a book. (For similar reasons, we've relied on the train to visit family in the Hudson Valley, on Long Island, and in Connecticut, even though it would probably be somewhat quicker to drive—though maybe not that much quicker when you count time spent circling for parking, bathroom and gas stops, etc. Driving on something like the LIE is just so unpleasant that it's well worth the time cost to me to take the train.)
When we lived in Chicago we did not have a car and often used a Zipcar or rental for hiking and camping trips. It was painful to pay so much each time and we considered buying a car but the math never worked out.
posted by enn at 1:43 PM on January 24, 2018
When we lived in Chicago we did not have a car and often used a Zipcar or rental for hiking and camping trips. It was painful to pay so much each time and we considered buying a car but the math never worked out.
posted by enn at 1:43 PM on January 24, 2018
I have friends who periodically ask me to "car-sit" for a few weeks at a time when they travel. They always say "you can use the car when you've got custody, of course!"
And yet, I think I've only actually used the car to get out of the city 25-30% of the time when they do. The competition for parking on my block can be really tight, and so if I do manage to miraculously get a space where I don't have to move it the next day, that is often enough to give me second thoughts about actually using it ("oh, but shit, what if I can't find a parking place when I get back and have to park on the next block over again...eh, I'll just leave it"). More often than not, the times when I do use it to make trips outside of the city, I'm already motivated enough to make a trip that I would have gone anyway without the car.
Plus, the unfamiliarity with car ownership has lead to a steep learning curve when it comes to parking regulations (ask me how I learned the rules for parking near bus stops - which is also how I know what the Brooklyn impound lot looks like).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:47 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
And yet, I think I've only actually used the car to get out of the city 25-30% of the time when they do. The competition for parking on my block can be really tight, and so if I do manage to miraculously get a space where I don't have to move it the next day, that is often enough to give me second thoughts about actually using it ("oh, but shit, what if I can't find a parking place when I get back and have to park on the next block over again...eh, I'll just leave it"). More often than not, the times when I do use it to make trips outside of the city, I'm already motivated enough to make a trip that I would have gone anyway without the car.
Plus, the unfamiliarity with car ownership has lead to a steep learning curve when it comes to parking regulations (ask me how I learned the rules for parking near bus stops - which is also how I know what the Brooklyn impound lot looks like).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:47 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
My friends who have cars in Brooklyn use it often to get out of the city even when we all make fun of them for having cars and complaining about parking.
It seems like a pain for them to do trips within the city (i.e Williamsburg to Prospect Park) but amazing for Bkln-Queens or farther out or trips to places like DC.
I hate cars and the hostility (at least on Manhattan) to them is why I live in NYC basically.
posted by sandmanwv at 1:54 PM on January 24, 2018
It seems like a pain for them to do trips within the city (i.e Williamsburg to Prospect Park) but amazing for Bkln-Queens or farther out or trips to places like DC.
I hate cars and the hostility (at least on Manhattan) to them is why I live in NYC basically.
posted by sandmanwv at 1:54 PM on January 24, 2018
Resounding yes here. I don't have to tell you about the downsides, but the upside - the ability to just get the hell out on a whim and go to a park upstate or a random town, whatever, was great. When I ditched my car (because of aforementioned downsides), it felt suffocating from time to time.
posted by jpe at 1:56 PM on January 24, 2018
posted by jpe at 1:56 PM on January 24, 2018
I'm going to answer this WRT Toronto rather than New York, seeing as they're pretty similar in terms of transit/car sharing options and my circumstances when I lived there were similar to yours.
I'd vote for buying a car so long as the math works out. The use cases that Zipcar and car2go favour aren't your typical use cases. They are very good services for people who don't have access to conventional car rental, and for people whose car usage only involves in-city trips with a quick stopover. The marginal cost will be fairly high for trips that involve stopover time, to the point that it's a major deterrent. This is even more the case if your trips involve getting stuck on the LIE or something, particularly if you're not paying a day rate.
Don't get me wrong, car ownership in a city is unpleasant, but so is having your transportation options negatively impact your ability to access preferred leisure and social options. Non-car owners who have access to someone else's private transportation don't necessarily run into this to the same degree, but that doesn't sound like that's sufficiently working for you so you may need a different solution.
posted by blerghamot at 2:06 PM on January 24, 2018
I'd vote for buying a car so long as the math works out. The use cases that Zipcar and car2go favour aren't your typical use cases. They are very good services for people who don't have access to conventional car rental, and for people whose car usage only involves in-city trips with a quick stopover. The marginal cost will be fairly high for trips that involve stopover time, to the point that it's a major deterrent. This is even more the case if your trips involve getting stuck on the LIE or something, particularly if you're not paying a day rate.
Don't get me wrong, car ownership in a city is unpleasant, but so is having your transportation options negatively impact your ability to access preferred leisure and social options. Non-car owners who have access to someone else's private transportation don't necessarily run into this to the same degree, but that doesn't sound like that's sufficiently working for you so you may need a different solution.
posted by blerghamot at 2:06 PM on January 24, 2018
For me, the experience of owning a car in outer-borough NYC and in other east coast cities was mostly a parking issue, and not just an alternate side thing. Getting out of town (or to the airport, or to Trader Joe's) was easier, but getting back was sometimes awful--like returning from a weekend trip on Sunday night when everyone was tucked in and no parking spaces turned over or having to carry my groceries 5 blocks or risk a ticket while I double parked outside the front door. Once I spent twice as long looking for parking as I had driving back from the weekend trip. When I had a designated parking space, I used the car a lot more; eventually I did the math on how much the parking space cost vs. how *much* I more I used the car and then decided it still wasn't worth it.
Perhaps you've already considered this, but I'd make sure you think not just about "getting out" but also "getting in." For example, look around your neighborhood at a time you think you might be coming back from somewhere (Saturday afternoon errands, Sunday evening travel) and see how much street parking there is.
posted by trixie119 at 2:24 PM on January 24, 2018 [7 favorites]
Perhaps you've already considered this, but I'd make sure you think not just about "getting out" but also "getting in." For example, look around your neighborhood at a time you think you might be coming back from somewhere (Saturday afternoon errands, Sunday evening travel) and see how much street parking there is.
posted by trixie119 at 2:24 PM on January 24, 2018 [7 favorites]
I live in a city where I don't have a car and it's frustrating sometimes, but I would recommend Car2Go. I know you mentioned you are aware of Zipcar, but Car2Go is a little different and a little cheaper, in my opinion. The rates are affordable and you don't need to reserve it ahead of time like with a car rental or Zipcar. When you see one, you just take it. (On the flip side, you can't always count on having one nearby when you want it.) I wouldn't take very long trips with a Car2Go, but maybe it would allow you more freedom. At least in my city, there are WAY more Car2Go cars than there are Zipcars. Again, I don't live in NYC, but I've done the math of owning a car vs. not and it's always cheaper not to. My monthly tab for Lyft and Car2Go never equals what it would be to pay a car lease, car insurance and parking. The key, for me, is not to worry about the cost on a trip-by-trip basis and not feel guilty if I use a Car2Go for two hours one day or take a really long Lyft ride.
I had a car in Boston and I hated it. I couldn't really get rid of it because I needed it -- my office wasn't close to a train or bus stop -- but driving stressed me out and I could never find parking anywhere. When I moved, I intentionally lived in a downtown area where I wouldn't need a car as much. I can't go run to Ikea whenever I feel like it or go for a hike easily, but I've made peace with that. Consider which scenario is more stressful to you.
Alternatively, my friend and her friend shared a car. They were both on the insurance and the title, and they both used it when they needed it for out-of-town trips and such. That might not work with some friends, but for them it worked out because neither of them *needed* a car and both were very flexible.
Like anything, it's a cost-benefit analysis. If you think you'll use a car all the time, maybe it's the right move for you. Maybe you could get a long-term rental or borrow someone's car for like a month and see if you really like it or not.
posted by AppleTurnover at 2:28 PM on January 24, 2018
I had a car in Boston and I hated it. I couldn't really get rid of it because I needed it -- my office wasn't close to a train or bus stop -- but driving stressed me out and I could never find parking anywhere. When I moved, I intentionally lived in a downtown area where I wouldn't need a car as much. I can't go run to Ikea whenever I feel like it or go for a hike easily, but I've made peace with that. Consider which scenario is more stressful to you.
Alternatively, my friend and her friend shared a car. They were both on the insurance and the title, and they both used it when they needed it for out-of-town trips and such. That might not work with some friends, but for them it worked out because neither of them *needed* a car and both were very flexible.
Like anything, it's a cost-benefit analysis. If you think you'll use a car all the time, maybe it's the right move for you. Maybe you could get a long-term rental or borrow someone's car for like a month and see if you really like it or not.
posted by AppleTurnover at 2:28 PM on January 24, 2018
So, it seems like your question is How does it FEEL to have a car in the city? (Not Should I get a car and why/why not, which is what people really want to answer.)
I know a lot of people who have cars out of professional necessity. (Musicians.) I would say they sometimes end up using the car for errands where one might not otherwise take a car. Like, I know one couple who mostly grocery shop at Red Hook Fairway, even though there are plenty of options for groceries in the neighborhood. And they end up giving people rides home from gigs and stuff.
I had a boyfriend with a car. It was nice to know that we could just pick up and go to the beach or the more remote corners of the outer boroughs without it being an ordeal.
Due to Life Reasons, I now make a lot more trips by car—across town by cab, or to other cities by rental car. It always feels great not to have to do the walk to subway to train to subway to bus dance or worry about how much I can carry.
The convenience is nice. If the city really weighs on you, you might find the convenience worth it.
I see that people are trying to make this a question of financial math. I know you already know how that math works out. The question you want to answer is the one of emotional math. Is the feeling of extra freedom worth $x plus some annoyances? Only you can answer that. For me, the math works out to once-in-a-while expensive cabs and rental cars.
posted by the_blizz at 2:31 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I know a lot of people who have cars out of professional necessity. (Musicians.) I would say they sometimes end up using the car for errands where one might not otherwise take a car. Like, I know one couple who mostly grocery shop at Red Hook Fairway, even though there are plenty of options for groceries in the neighborhood. And they end up giving people rides home from gigs and stuff.
I had a boyfriend with a car. It was nice to know that we could just pick up and go to the beach or the more remote corners of the outer boroughs without it being an ordeal.
Due to Life Reasons, I now make a lot more trips by car—across town by cab, or to other cities by rental car. It always feels great not to have to do the walk to subway to train to subway to bus dance or worry about how much I can carry.
The convenience is nice. If the city really weighs on you, you might find the convenience worth it.
I see that people are trying to make this a question of financial math. I know you already know how that math works out. The question you want to answer is the one of emotional math. Is the feeling of extra freedom worth $x plus some annoyances? Only you can answer that. For me, the math works out to once-in-a-while expensive cabs and rental cars.
posted by the_blizz at 2:31 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've had multiple cars in the city (mostly Brooklyn neighborhoods on the L train) and am currently carless and I really miss it. My last car just got too elderly to keep up and the alternate side just kept getting worse. They redid the street parking on my block which resulted in a loss of at least three parking spaces while putting up more and more condos and - you get the picture. Otherwise - I might still have the car. I would agree with Trixie119 - make sure you aren't underestimating parking issues. It's wearying. And I'm someone who worked full time, went to grad school 4 nights a week and still managed to do alternate side in my neighborhood without getting a ticket the entire time - so I know from what I speak on parking woes.
IMO - Cars are great! I used it to run errands - pick up giant heavy groceries and pet supplies - go hiking - go to the beach - visit my grandmother in Pennsylvania - all those things. I could wake up, drive to a state park, go for a walk, see a deer and get back into my 'hood before the LIE backed up and still have plenty of time to have drinks with friends at a bar in Manhattan. I do zip car now and again and the mileage limitations really irritate me. And renting a car is a total PITA - I've done it once and don't want to experience it again really.
If it makes financial sense - as a former long time car owner - I say they can really make living here better and more manageable. My recs - get a state parks pass. Having one was fantastic and I would go to all kinds of state parks because I could just point to the pass and roll on in. Beware parking in the darkest recesses of the BQE during a snow storm. Try not to park under the BQE at all really - shit goes down there. Fight bs tickets - I've won twice. Turn your wheels into the curb - supposed to help with theft. 4WD really really helps when no one wants to shovel out their space. Also figure out which side the plow dumps all the snow on and then don't park on that side. Have fun!
posted by rdnnyc at 2:41 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
IMO - Cars are great! I used it to run errands - pick up giant heavy groceries and pet supplies - go hiking - go to the beach - visit my grandmother in Pennsylvania - all those things. I could wake up, drive to a state park, go for a walk, see a deer and get back into my 'hood before the LIE backed up and still have plenty of time to have drinks with friends at a bar in Manhattan. I do zip car now and again and the mileage limitations really irritate me. And renting a car is a total PITA - I've done it once and don't want to experience it again really.
If it makes financial sense - as a former long time car owner - I say they can really make living here better and more manageable. My recs - get a state parks pass. Having one was fantastic and I would go to all kinds of state parks because I could just point to the pass and roll on in. Beware parking in the darkest recesses of the BQE during a snow storm. Try not to park under the BQE at all really - shit goes down there. Fight bs tickets - I've won twice. Turn your wheels into the curb - supposed to help with theft. 4WD really really helps when no one wants to shovel out their space. Also figure out which side the plow dumps all the snow on and then don't park on that side. Have fun!
posted by rdnnyc at 2:41 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I had a car the first two years I lived in New York (in Manhattan), sold it, and have been in NYC car-less for more than 10 years, and now really, really want a car again (for largely similar reasons to you). I was happier in NYC when I had the car. I do feel trapped without one and think about moving away every couple of years as a result.
That said, I'll second everyone saying that the math likely works out to favor your using the expensive, convenient car rental rather than buying a car. (It does for me, which is why I still don't have a car.) But, I know why you don't like this option. It feels really restrictive to have to book everything in advance and have an annoying transaction before you can go.
When I had my car, I regularly: drove up to the 133rd street fairway to shop at 70% of the price of my neighborhood grocery stores; took friends and myself to Ikea and other suburban shopping opportunities in NJ (this was pre-Red Hook Ikea); went to visit my parents (I see them 3x/year without a car, it was more like 8x/year with one); and went on random weekend trips with abandon. I also paid for parking close to my apartment so it wasn't bad lugging stuff back from my car after a trip.
That's the good. The bad was that when my car broke down, there's not a lot of car repair infrastructure available in convenient NYC neighborhoods. So, there were some long tow truck rides to remote parts of Brooklyn. It's also getting harder and harder to find placed to get gas, tire repair, oil changes, and all that stuff as more and more neighborhoods gentrify. So, that hassle has grown over time.
Bottom line, if you can actually afford it* and are prepared to deal with the hassle, do it! You can always sell the car if you find it's not living up to your dreams.
*factor in parking. Paying for parking makes having a car 1000% easier if you live in a congested neighborhood.
posted by snaw at 2:45 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
That said, I'll second everyone saying that the math likely works out to favor your using the expensive, convenient car rental rather than buying a car. (It does for me, which is why I still don't have a car.) But, I know why you don't like this option. It feels really restrictive to have to book everything in advance and have an annoying transaction before you can go.
When I had my car, I regularly: drove up to the 133rd street fairway to shop at 70% of the price of my neighborhood grocery stores; took friends and myself to Ikea and other suburban shopping opportunities in NJ (this was pre-Red Hook Ikea); went to visit my parents (I see them 3x/year without a car, it was more like 8x/year with one); and went on random weekend trips with abandon. I also paid for parking close to my apartment so it wasn't bad lugging stuff back from my car after a trip.
That's the good. The bad was that when my car broke down, there's not a lot of car repair infrastructure available in convenient NYC neighborhoods. So, there were some long tow truck rides to remote parts of Brooklyn. It's also getting harder and harder to find placed to get gas, tire repair, oil changes, and all that stuff as more and more neighborhoods gentrify. So, that hassle has grown over time.
Bottom line, if you can actually afford it* and are prepared to deal with the hassle, do it! You can always sell the car if you find it's not living up to your dreams.
*factor in parking. Paying for parking makes having a car 1000% easier if you live in a congested neighborhood.
posted by snaw at 2:45 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
(the other option I might suggest is moving somewhere more convenient to Penn Station/Grand Central which is...a lot, but actually might be the same cost once you factor in insurance/maintenance/repairs. But that's a lot.)
This is what occurred to me. Unless you're crazy about your neighborhood, investing the several hundred dollars a month a car would cost you in a nicer apartment closer to transit might also improve your feelings about your life in the city. If I had several hundred dollars a month to drop on improving my NYC experience, that's where I'd put it.
posted by praemunire at 3:12 PM on January 24, 2018
This is what occurred to me. Unless you're crazy about your neighborhood, investing the several hundred dollars a month a car would cost you in a nicer apartment closer to transit might also improve your feelings about your life in the city. If I had several hundred dollars a month to drop on improving my NYC experience, that's where I'd put it.
posted by praemunire at 3:12 PM on January 24, 2018
> We had one in Queens and it was great.
Same here. My wife and I lived in Astoria, and she was used to driving places and was frustrated she couldn't, and in 2002 we bit the bullet and got a Saturn (great car! we still have it!) and it made life a lot better in the ways you mention. But parking wasn't hard in Astoria in those days (I have no idea what it's like now—I've since moved out of the city).
posted by languagehat at 3:21 PM on January 24, 2018
Same here. My wife and I lived in Astoria, and she was used to driving places and was frustrated she couldn't, and in 2002 we bit the bullet and got a Saturn (great car! we still have it!) and it made life a lot better in the ways you mention. But parking wasn't hard in Astoria in those days (I have no idea what it's like now—I've since moved out of the city).
posted by languagehat at 3:21 PM on January 24, 2018
Our friends moved, in quick succession, from DC to Baltimore to LA to Brooklyn. They took their Mini Cooper with them through all of those moves, but lasted about a month before they sold it in (they're in Park Slope). From their gripes, the problem of keeping up with parking rules and incurring tickets and fees was too much negative to account for the positives. It's been a couple years and they haven't changed their minds.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:25 PM on January 24, 2018
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:25 PM on January 24, 2018
I lived in Manhattan for 10+ years and kept a car for the last 5-6 years. It was expensive but so worth it. I went somewhere every weekend. Sometimes a ride out to see my sister or friends in Westchester; sometimes up to Stew Leonards in Connecticut for groceries; sometimes for a weekend in Vermont or up to Boston.
I went all in and kept it in a garage near my apartment. They needed about an hour's notice to dig it out for me. It wouldn't have worked for me to have to worry about street parking as my job at the time required a lot of travel.
There was a lot I liked about living in NYC but it never felt like home to me. I loved being able to leave on a whim. The money I spent on the garage and all the other associated costs was money I wasn't spending on going out in the city. It was the perfect antidote to city life.
posted by Kangaroo at 4:30 PM on January 24, 2018
I went all in and kept it in a garage near my apartment. They needed about an hour's notice to dig it out for me. It wouldn't have worked for me to have to worry about street parking as my job at the time required a lot of travel.
There was a lot I liked about living in NYC but it never felt like home to me. I loved being able to leave on a whim. The money I spent on the garage and all the other associated costs was money I wasn't spending on going out in the city. It was the perfect antidote to city life.
posted by Kangaroo at 4:30 PM on January 24, 2018
I’m also in south Brooklyn and on one hand would love a car (beach! Ikea! Getting kid to the ER at midnight! Etc). But so many of my friends have cars and have the hassles you describe. Two examples: one had her mirror swiped by a garbage truck. She can get the $150 repair cost reimbursed by the city but it’s taken her several hours of beaurocracy so far and no luck, so she decided just to eat the cost. Another friend, if he gets a good parking spot, will not use his car. All. Week. Until he has to move it - so he doesn’t have to find another parking spot. Be aware parking is a lot more difficult on Sunday afternoons/evenings when all those car owners return from their weekend upstate/beach trip etc.
I take Uber’s and rent Zipcars all the time. Car service back from ikea with my dresser. Fresh direct delivery if I’m too tired to trek to the store. Without even thinking about the cost, because when I sat down and worked it out I was still saving a couple hundred dollars a month by not having a car to do all these things (and also avoiding ridiculous hassle like those I mentioned above). Maybe if you worked out exactly how much you’d use it, then the corresponding cost of renting for those days per month (put a dollar amount on your hours of parking/maintenance etc too) you could come to peace (and be happier - as per your original question) with the decision to just say f### it, rent a car for the weekend whenever you like and get outta here.
posted by hibbersk at 4:48 PM on January 24, 2018
I take Uber’s and rent Zipcars all the time. Car service back from ikea with my dresser. Fresh direct delivery if I’m too tired to trek to the store. Without even thinking about the cost, because when I sat down and worked it out I was still saving a couple hundred dollars a month by not having a car to do all these things (and also avoiding ridiculous hassle like those I mentioned above). Maybe if you worked out exactly how much you’d use it, then the corresponding cost of renting for those days per month (put a dollar amount on your hours of parking/maintenance etc too) you could come to peace (and be happier - as per your original question) with the decision to just say f### it, rent a car for the weekend whenever you like and get outta here.
posted by hibbersk at 4:48 PM on January 24, 2018
You could consider moving to upper Manhattan or Riverdale (or heaven forfend, the suburbs!). That way you'd be able to get out the city faster, putting you closer to the nature stuff you want to see, and getting to Metro North wouldn't be the huge PITA.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:28 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:28 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I live in Manhattan and have owned a car for years. I also have a garage. Both my wife and I are from around here, my family has a vacation house, and neither of us are from towns where you want to rely on weekend public transit. We also have two kids and a dog, but I had the car when I was single.
Honestly my original use case was driving out east during the summer, or to other activities in more rural areas. My math between the garage, insurance, and car depreciation was that I was basically valuing my convenience probably higher than I should have been, but I suspect my sloth would have meant I would have not done a bunch of things I wanted to do. So financially, with a garage as a single person it's kind of indefensible, but it's pretty great.
Now with the kids it let's us do all kinds of activities that would just be too much hassle if we didn't have it. That said this time of year I can go a month without seeing the car, while in the summer I use it at least once a weekend, and usually twice.
I guess I kind of wonder if you don't have standing places to go, if you'll use it enough for it to make sense.
posted by JPD at 6:05 PM on January 24, 2018
Honestly my original use case was driving out east during the summer, or to other activities in more rural areas. My math between the garage, insurance, and car depreciation was that I was basically valuing my convenience probably higher than I should have been, but I suspect my sloth would have meant I would have not done a bunch of things I wanted to do. So financially, with a garage as a single person it's kind of indefensible, but it's pretty great.
Now with the kids it let's us do all kinds of activities that would just be too much hassle if we didn't have it. That said this time of year I can go a month without seeing the car, while in the summer I use it at least once a weekend, and usually twice.
I guess I kind of wonder if you don't have standing places to go, if you'll use it enough for it to make sense.
posted by JPD at 6:05 PM on January 24, 2018
YES.
Pay for garage parking. Enjoy your freedom.
posted by jbenben at 6:36 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Pay for garage parking. Enjoy your freedom.
posted by jbenben at 6:36 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I also have family several states away and dread the transit hullabaloo of going to visit by train/bus/car/taxi, which turns what would take 5 or 6 hours in the car into a 12-hour affair.
My way out has been to get a AAA card, and then rent Hertz cars which they have some sort of deal with, which can render HUGE discounts. The first time I played with it, I got a car from a SOHO rental outfit, and kept it for 8 to 10 days, only paying just about $250. Even better, they gave me an oversized car — because they didn't have any small ones on the lot, and the mileage was so good, I barely had to cough up much extra.
The next time I rented that deal was gone, but if you're enterprising you can nearly always find similar deals at the edge of the City or one of the boroughs. The last time I rented from Sonny's Collision in Ozone Park, and took the subway there (then walked a bit), and drove back to the apartment, put my bag in the car, and then set off. Sometime during that trip, I also made inquiries as to day rental costs, or the cost of a long weekend, and even for me, who seems to be perpetually on a budget, it was cheap.
Anyway, that, too, might be something to explore. That said, my ex, in another city, had a car, and by the time I met him I had been a city-dweller for years and, wow, what a difference to suddenly have access to a car! It was like the whole word expanded exponentially.
posted by Violet Blue at 6:44 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
My way out has been to get a AAA card, and then rent Hertz cars which they have some sort of deal with, which can render HUGE discounts. The first time I played with it, I got a car from a SOHO rental outfit, and kept it for 8 to 10 days, only paying just about $250. Even better, they gave me an oversized car — because they didn't have any small ones on the lot, and the mileage was so good, I barely had to cough up much extra.
The next time I rented that deal was gone, but if you're enterprising you can nearly always find similar deals at the edge of the City or one of the boroughs. The last time I rented from Sonny's Collision in Ozone Park, and took the subway there (then walked a bit), and drove back to the apartment, put my bag in the car, and then set off. Sometime during that trip, I also made inquiries as to day rental costs, or the cost of a long weekend, and even for me, who seems to be perpetually on a budget, it was cheap.
Anyway, that, too, might be something to explore. That said, my ex, in another city, had a car, and by the time I met him I had been a city-dweller for years and, wow, what a difference to suddenly have access to a car! It was like the whole word expanded exponentially.
posted by Violet Blue at 6:44 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
One quick follow-up about parking. It's not as hard to park as you'd think if you live near the edges of NYC — where I successfully parked from time to time — or in more residential parts of Brooklyn. Now, doing that daily, in all sorts of weather may be something else. And, certainly, too, in Manhattan, even at the edge there was a side-switching thing I had to do sometimes. But I guess what I'm getting at is not everything's tied up tight for the millionaires of Manhattan. Here and there, there's ordinary stuff at ordinary prices available.
posted by Violet Blue at 6:48 PM on January 24, 2018
posted by Violet Blue at 6:48 PM on January 24, 2018
Anecdotal, but I had friends (a couple) who had a car, living in Brooklyn near Prospect Park for several years. He was a Kiwi and she was a California transplant. They often took weekend trips to camp, hike, etc., and generally get out of the city. They street parked it, no garage.
During Hurricane Sandy, their car got flooded and they opted not to replace it. That lasted about 4 months until my friend admitted that they were going crazy cooped up in the city all the time; about 2 months later they up and moved to California.
So, for them: YES, it made a difference. Doable with, suffocating without.
(Also, if you're thinking about moving to a different city anyway -- one in which you will most likely need to buy a car? -- why not go ahead and try it out here first? It's a big investment but less of a big investment than picking up and moving to a new city.)
posted by alleycat01 at 6:48 PM on January 24, 2018
During Hurricane Sandy, their car got flooded and they opted not to replace it. That lasted about 4 months until my friend admitted that they were going crazy cooped up in the city all the time; about 2 months later they up and moved to California.
So, for them: YES, it made a difference. Doable with, suffocating without.
(Also, if you're thinking about moving to a different city anyway -- one in which you will most likely need to buy a car? -- why not go ahead and try it out here first? It's a big investment but less of a big investment than picking up and moving to a new city.)
posted by alleycat01 at 6:48 PM on January 24, 2018
And also I should say that I lived in Queens for about 5 years before I met my SO, who had/has a car. Just like Violet Blue, my whole relationship with the city changed once we started dating and I started having regular car access. ALSO SHOPPING FOR LARGE THINGS, WOW, life is so much easier when you don't have try to lug your window AC unit cross-boroughs on the subway.
The parking thing sucks but it can be manageable depending on your neighborhood. Scout it out a bit first and see what your streetside parking options & competition are, as well as garage costs.
posted by alleycat01 at 6:52 PM on January 24, 2018
The parking thing sucks but it can be manageable depending on your neighborhood. Scout it out a bit first and see what your streetside parking options & competition are, as well as garage costs.
posted by alleycat01 at 6:52 PM on January 24, 2018
We had a car in Clinton Hill, Brooklyn, from 2000 until we moved out of New York in 2007. We enjoyed it for the same reasons you think you would and for the reasons many of the pro-car commenters have said. Three points (the first is most responsive to your question about how it feels to have a car in NY):
1. We did use our car to go to the beach and hike in Bear Mountain. But having a car really let us explore and get to know the outer boroughs. Weeks or even months would go by without us going into Manhattan on weekends because we'd go somewhere else by car. My brother in law lives in Flushing, far from the 7 line, and we used our car a lot to visit him or his wife's family in Howard Beach. While some might sneer that it's not worth getting to know those parts of NYC, I am proud of how well I know many parts of Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens and the diversity of neighborhoods that comprise them. Having a car really contributed to that.
2. Someone mentioned that having a car just entitles you to suffer through traffic on the LIE. If you are a nervous or anxious driver, you will be miserable. There is virtually no road in the five boroughs that is not congested, in poor condition, under construction, or filled with aggressive drivers. But if you are a patient driver who can handle stress well, you should be good. While I often found traffic frustrating, traffic never fouled my mood so much that I couldn't enjoy myself once I got to my destination.
3. Depending on where you live, you might be able to park on the street and resort to garages only on days when you can't find a suitable parking spot (when, for example, you come back from a trip on Sunday night, as someone else mentioned).
posted by hhc5 at 8:15 PM on January 24, 2018
1. We did use our car to go to the beach and hike in Bear Mountain. But having a car really let us explore and get to know the outer boroughs. Weeks or even months would go by without us going into Manhattan on weekends because we'd go somewhere else by car. My brother in law lives in Flushing, far from the 7 line, and we used our car a lot to visit him or his wife's family in Howard Beach. While some might sneer that it's not worth getting to know those parts of NYC, I am proud of how well I know many parts of Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens and the diversity of neighborhoods that comprise them. Having a car really contributed to that.
2. Someone mentioned that having a car just entitles you to suffer through traffic on the LIE. If you are a nervous or anxious driver, you will be miserable. There is virtually no road in the five boroughs that is not congested, in poor condition, under construction, or filled with aggressive drivers. But if you are a patient driver who can handle stress well, you should be good. While I often found traffic frustrating, traffic never fouled my mood so much that I couldn't enjoy myself once I got to my destination.
3. Depending on where you live, you might be able to park on the street and resort to garages only on days when you can't find a suitable parking spot (when, for example, you come back from a trip on Sunday night, as someone else mentioned).
posted by hhc5 at 8:15 PM on January 24, 2018
Lived in Brooklyn, had a car, it was a godsend for being able to actually get out of the city like ever. We had extremely reasonable (100/month) off-street parking in our apartment building, which made a huge difference.
posted by so fucking future at 8:55 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by so fucking future at 8:55 PM on January 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think if you synthesize this all up, it mostly comes down to your parking situation. If you live in a nabe with tolerable on-street parking, or you can afford the garage, then do it.
posted by JPD at 5:55 AM on January 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by JPD at 5:55 AM on January 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Renting in NYC is expensive, but you're overpaying if you're paying $150/day. Try Silvercar. They're $69/day for a fancy Audi A4, picked up from Downtown Brooklyn (or Williamsburg or Manhattan if you like the bad bits of New York). I assume these prices are subsidized by venture capital in order to drive out competition, so they may not last for ever, but we've been saying that about Uber and Lyft for a while now.
posted by caek at 1:23 PM on January 25, 2018
posted by caek at 1:23 PM on January 25, 2018
I think if you synthesize this all up, it mostly comes down to your parking situation. If you live in a nabe with tolerable on-street parking, or you can afford the garage, then do it.
I came here to say basically this. If you an afford a car, you really have one pertinent question: how bad is street parking in your neighborhood?
If the answer is 'not so bad' or 'fine,' honestly, it sounds to me like you want to get a car. So get a car. If the answer is 'royal PITA,' maybe get one if you can afford a garage, but otherwise don't. If the answer is 'I don't know,' well, look into it.
Alternate side is slightly irritating but I've been doing it for years in Brooklyn and if you live in a place with reasonably ample street parking it's no more irritating than, say, walking a dog. It's perfectly doable. Parking tickets are honestly not that hard to avoid if you can read signs and they're usually like 60 bucks (though this varies); I get maybe one per year. I understand that insurance is expensive but I've never felt particularly gouged.
Digging out in the snow can really suck, I'm not gonna lie. Pro-tip: check the weather forecast. If it's gonna warm up quickly, don't bother, just let the snow melt (alternate side is usually suspended for storms). If it's not, try to dig out as soon as you can, before the snow gets too heavy and your car gets lodged in it (ask me how I know).
Having a car absolutely makes it easier to get out of the city. Friends of mine have talked about being gouged on rentals to such an extent that sometimes I wonder if I'm coming out ahead by owning a car (I'm almost certainly not, but the fact that this has crossed my mind is crazy). My wife and I go to visit family in the 'burbs, in MA, in Philly. We go upstate a few times a year.
And it's not just getting out. We visit out-of-the way parts of the city, we go to Fairway and Trader Joe's, we can visit friends in Queens or Inwood in a reasonable amount of time. Just last night, we drove down to Staten Island to go to a really great restaurant. It was 25 minutes in the car, it would have been 1-1.5 hours on public transit (i.e., not something we'd do on a weeknight). So, yeah, it opens a lot of things up.
posted by breakin' the law at 1:27 PM on January 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I came here to say basically this. If you an afford a car, you really have one pertinent question: how bad is street parking in your neighborhood?
If the answer is 'not so bad' or 'fine,' honestly, it sounds to me like you want to get a car. So get a car. If the answer is 'royal PITA,' maybe get one if you can afford a garage, but otherwise don't. If the answer is 'I don't know,' well, look into it.
Alternate side is slightly irritating but I've been doing it for years in Brooklyn and if you live in a place with reasonably ample street parking it's no more irritating than, say, walking a dog. It's perfectly doable. Parking tickets are honestly not that hard to avoid if you can read signs and they're usually like 60 bucks (though this varies); I get maybe one per year. I understand that insurance is expensive but I've never felt particularly gouged.
Digging out in the snow can really suck, I'm not gonna lie. Pro-tip: check the weather forecast. If it's gonna warm up quickly, don't bother, just let the snow melt (alternate side is usually suspended for storms). If it's not, try to dig out as soon as you can, before the snow gets too heavy and your car gets lodged in it (ask me how I know).
Having a car absolutely makes it easier to get out of the city. Friends of mine have talked about being gouged on rentals to such an extent that sometimes I wonder if I'm coming out ahead by owning a car (I'm almost certainly not, but the fact that this has crossed my mind is crazy). My wife and I go to visit family in the 'burbs, in MA, in Philly. We go upstate a few times a year.
And it's not just getting out. We visit out-of-the way parts of the city, we go to Fairway and Trader Joe's, we can visit friends in Queens or Inwood in a reasonable amount of time. Just last night, we drove down to Staten Island to go to a really great restaurant. It was 25 minutes in the car, it would have been 1-1.5 hours on public transit (i.e., not something we'd do on a weeknight). So, yeah, it opens a lot of things up.
posted by breakin' the law at 1:27 PM on January 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
The only problem I can see that it doesn't solve for you is the trips to your family --- I don't think they let you block out whole weekends with one vehicle, and there's definitely a surcharge if you put more than 200 or 250 miles or something on the car in a day. But if you're only doing that a couple times a year it might solve the rest of your problems --- you wake up one Sunday and feel like hitting the beach or the woods, 10 minutes later you'd be on the road.
In the interest of being fully aware of the benefits and limitations and making the huge assumption that the OP even has ZipCars nearby, you can in fact reserve most cars for up to a week. (Some specific vehicles intentionally do not have daily rates, however) It's intentionally much cheaper in most cases to use a regular rental for those times when you need a car for more than a day or two. The biggest advantage vs. owning, IMO, is that you can rent the car you need for the given day. Sometimes I'm fine with a Golf. Other times I need a Mazda5 for some cargo room. Sometimes I need an X5 so I can look the part and have cargo space. Also, the daily mileage stacks, so if you get 150 free miles a day and have it for three days, you're fine so long as total mileage isn't over 450, even if it was 400 miles on day one and 25 miles each on the other two.
Also, if you work for or have family/friends who work for a large company, there's a very good chance they have a corporate rental car rate that caps the rental charge to something more reasonable. All the contracts I've seen in the past few years have Manhattan or NYC surcharges, but paying at most 10-15% above the cheaper national rate is still almost always a screaming deal. I'm looking at $225 a week plus taxes and fees or a bit under $300 all in for a full size, though you're paying for gas, unlike with ZipCar or car2go.
If you really want to know what it will be like to have a car in your specific place, rent a car from a place out in CT for a month and drive it in. Shouldn't cost more than about $600 for the car itself and since you don't have to show back up for a month it isn't such a hassle. Then you can see how many tickets you end up racking up and whether you can actually live with moving the car all the time and whether you'll use is at much as you think before spending many thousands on a car you own.
And don't overestimate the hassle in renting a car from a convenient location. If you're signed up for the company's frequent renter program (or use Silvercar) it's pretty quick the vast majority of the time even when they don't have a secure lot and you have to stop at the desk. Not as fast as ZipCar, though. ;)
posted by wierdo at 3:54 PM on January 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
In the interest of being fully aware of the benefits and limitations and making the huge assumption that the OP even has ZipCars nearby, you can in fact reserve most cars for up to a week. (Some specific vehicles intentionally do not have daily rates, however) It's intentionally much cheaper in most cases to use a regular rental for those times when you need a car for more than a day or two. The biggest advantage vs. owning, IMO, is that you can rent the car you need for the given day. Sometimes I'm fine with a Golf. Other times I need a Mazda5 for some cargo room. Sometimes I need an X5 so I can look the part and have cargo space. Also, the daily mileage stacks, so if you get 150 free miles a day and have it for three days, you're fine so long as total mileage isn't over 450, even if it was 400 miles on day one and 25 miles each on the other two.
Also, if you work for or have family/friends who work for a large company, there's a very good chance they have a corporate rental car rate that caps the rental charge to something more reasonable. All the contracts I've seen in the past few years have Manhattan or NYC surcharges, but paying at most 10-15% above the cheaper national rate is still almost always a screaming deal. I'm looking at $225 a week plus taxes and fees or a bit under $300 all in for a full size, though you're paying for gas, unlike with ZipCar or car2go.
If you really want to know what it will be like to have a car in your specific place, rent a car from a place out in CT for a month and drive it in. Shouldn't cost more than about $600 for the car itself and since you don't have to show back up for a month it isn't such a hassle. Then you can see how many tickets you end up racking up and whether you can actually live with moving the car all the time and whether you'll use is at much as you think before spending many thousands on a car you own.
And don't overestimate the hassle in renting a car from a convenient location. If you're signed up for the company's frequent renter program (or use Silvercar) it's pretty quick the vast majority of the time even when they don't have a secure lot and you have to stop at the desk. Not as fast as ZipCar, though. ;)
posted by wierdo at 3:54 PM on January 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also, if Amazon has Prime Now there, use it. People bring me 99% of the bulky stuff I need to buy. No sense in lugging dog food on the bus or in a taxi/rideshare when you can have it and another 40 pounds of stuff dropped off for a $5 tip. (Amazon pays Flex drivers $18 an hour minimum, so I don't feel the need to go nuts on the tipping, just cover their wear and tear and a buck or two)
Even when I have access to a car sitting in my driveway I rarely go shopping with it simply because it seems like a waste of gas.
posted by wierdo at 4:01 PM on January 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Even when I have access to a car sitting in my driveway I rarely go shopping with it simply because it seems like a waste of gas.
posted by wierdo at 4:01 PM on January 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Getting a car was the best choice ever. I use it nearly every single weekend. My advice is splurge for that rented parking spot. Seriously. A car with no space to park it is a curse.
posted by KMoney at 5:54 PM on January 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by KMoney at 5:54 PM on January 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
2. Someone mentioned that having a car just entitles you to suffer through traffic on the LIE. If you are a nervous or anxious driver, you will be miserable. There is virtually no road in the five boroughs that is not congested, in poor condition, under construction, or filled with aggressive drivers.
Interestingly enough, with Waze and Google Navigation this isn't as true as it once was. For several years now, I've been rerouted away from highways all over Queens and Brooklyn to quieter, less congested roads. I live in Queens, less than a mile from the L.I.E. and hardly ever take it long distances during peak times because the apps direct me otherwise.
Roads in Eastern Queens and on Long Island also tend to be in better shape than those in Brooklyn and Manhattan. (Queens sides of the Belt Parkway and BQE excepted.) As you get further away from the other boroughs and closer to Long Island, construction becomes much less of an issue.
posted by zarq at 10:11 AM on January 26, 2018
Interestingly enough, with Waze and Google Navigation this isn't as true as it once was. For several years now, I've been rerouted away from highways all over Queens and Brooklyn to quieter, less congested roads. I live in Queens, less than a mile from the L.I.E. and hardly ever take it long distances during peak times because the apps direct me otherwise.
Roads in Eastern Queens and on Long Island also tend to be in better shape than those in Brooklyn and Manhattan. (Queens sides of the Belt Parkway and BQE excepted.) As you get further away from the other boroughs and closer to Long Island, construction becomes much less of an issue.
posted by zarq at 10:11 AM on January 26, 2018
Response by poster: Thank you all for the thoughtful answers! Feel free to continue to contribute. A few things for anyone following the thread:
- I just looked into Silvercar and on the weekends the price is the same as other rental car companies. I only get a rate of $69/day if I select weekdays, which is odd and irritating given that they brag about their transparent pricing. They also run occasional specials (half-price for a certain month or a percent off for a certain period of time), so this may have been why caek got a good deal.
- Looking into the above reminded me that Enterprise runs $9.99-$12.99 specials on weekends, but I'm not sure if the Manhattan and Brooklyn locations participate. I know at least one of the New Jersey locations does.
- If any NYC-area MeFites are ever interested in car pooling for any purpose (outdoor activities, weekend trips, etc.) drop me a line any time! We don't necessarily have to stick together once we get where we're going, but I'd be up for that too.
posted by unannihilated at 12:08 PM on January 26, 2018
- I just looked into Silvercar and on the weekends the price is the same as other rental car companies. I only get a rate of $69/day if I select weekdays, which is odd and irritating given that they brag about their transparent pricing. They also run occasional specials (half-price for a certain month or a percent off for a certain period of time), so this may have been why caek got a good deal.
- Looking into the above reminded me that Enterprise runs $9.99-$12.99 specials on weekends, but I'm not sure if the Manhattan and Brooklyn locations participate. I know at least one of the New Jersey locations does.
- If any NYC-area MeFites are ever interested in car pooling for any purpose (outdoor activities, weekend trips, etc.) drop me a line any time! We don't necessarily have to stick together once we get where we're going, but I'd be up for that too.
posted by unannihilated at 12:08 PM on January 26, 2018
> Looking into the above reminded me that Enterprise runs $9.99-$12.99 specials on weekends, but I'm not sure if the Manhattan and Brooklyn locations participate. I know at least one of the New Jersey locations does.
That's right, before the car we used to go to the Fort Lee Enterprise to rent; it's literally just across the GW Bridge.
posted by languagehat at 1:01 PM on January 26, 2018
That's right, before the car we used to go to the Fort Lee Enterprise to rent; it's literally just across the GW Bridge.
posted by languagehat at 1:01 PM on January 26, 2018
Yup, Silvercar gets you on the weekends. It's still a deal relative to the total cost of ownership. That's $8500/year according to AAA for a new car (probably more in NYC, but less for a used car, of course).
If you want anecdotal experience about going from not having a car to having a car in NYC: I lived in downtown Brooklyn. I didn't have a car. My girlfriend brought hers when she moved in. It was a colossal pain. We got tickets. It got towed once. We got flat batteries in the winter. Dealing with opposite side parking hung over us on Thursday and Friday morning. We used it to get out of the city or maybe 5 times in 2 years, and to Home Depot a couple of times.
posted by caek at 9:30 AM on January 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you want anecdotal experience about going from not having a car to having a car in NYC: I lived in downtown Brooklyn. I didn't have a car. My girlfriend brought hers when she moved in. It was a colossal pain. We got tickets. It got towed once. We got flat batteries in the winter. Dealing with opposite side parking hung over us on Thursday and Friday morning. We used it to get out of the city or maybe 5 times in 2 years, and to Home Depot a couple of times.
posted by caek at 9:30 AM on January 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
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