Landlord is horrible - but I keep hearing I have no rights
January 22, 2018 7:36 AM Subscribe
My apartment is old and has numerous problems. I've enjoyed living in older homes in the past, but my landlord is not capable of keeping up with repairs and when he can't - he tries to make it my fault. Also, he sends very inappropriate people (who are incapable) to do the repairs. I've called the police, better business bureau, and tenants rights organization for my area (Madison). All have said I have very limited to no rights. This doesn't seem fair - what would you do?
As soon as I moved into new apartment, there were issues. Leasing agent told me there was no assigned parking, but I got a note saying I would be towed. I called landlord and again was told there were no assigned spots. I got ANOTHER note in another spot saying I'd be towed. Eventually neighbor explained where my spot was.
I called immediatley about the paint - which had been placed in the walls about eight normal coats thick and was dripping everywhere. After paint dried, some paint started to crack and chip off the walls in this lead paint buildling - landlord said this is not an issue because they think there are several layers of paint still before the lead paint.
Once of the faucets had limited flow. This took eight phone calls and 3 attempts to fix.
My downstairs neighbor works until 2am. We both had a noise complaint. The landlord called me and told me that he's owned these units for 20 years and no one has ever had a noise complaint, so obviously it's not a significant issue. Which seems very unlikely since there is no insulation between units or the outside and I can hear everything my downstairs neighbor says.
I complained that the shared laundry didn't work - the landlord said they could not fix it at this time because it's someone else's contracted responsibility but did not offer any information on how to contact the other party.
Then my oven stopped working. After three phone calls, one man showed up with a very heavy new oven to move to the second floor. He was asking me to keep me company, clean up after him, if I lived alone!?!?! SO I left the apartment with my child. He later drove up to me and my child and asked us to get into his truck. I said no and after child and I returned from the park, the apartment was filled with natural gas. I shut off line, vented apartment, and related this story to my landlord the next day. He said that some natural gas smell is to be expected and there almost no chance there was a problem. I insisted there was. He said he's send someone over immediately and would I be there. I said no and left. Someone turned up six hours later after I'd returned, obviously hungover, with shit stained paints on, who stayed for half an hour. There was obviously still a gas leak and I called the gas company when he left. Landlord called me a liar and hysterical when I complained.
Even though I am the only adult in the house, landlord addresses all mail to my young male child.
Anyway, I don't feel safe or comfortable in this situation and problem keep arising that landlord is not able to fix (toilet keeps breaking, no light in hallways, furnace is having some unknown issue). I do not feel safe calling or confident that my landlord can maintain my this rental unit.
I called the police about the incident with the truck/gas. I called the better business bureau and they said they had no mechanism except to send a complaint that may be visible to other potentially. The tenants rights agency said that my best bet was to call the buildling expector because they could find the landlord if things weren't fixed in 3 months. I do not feel I would be safe as the landlord tried to repair these issues. I feel my only option is to move ASAP - but I would be stuck with rent until some other poor soul decides to rent this unit - I'd lose my security deposit and have to pay to move - all because my landlord is a total shmuck. Shouldn't I have some other options?
As soon as I moved into new apartment, there were issues. Leasing agent told me there was no assigned parking, but I got a note saying I would be towed. I called landlord and again was told there were no assigned spots. I got ANOTHER note in another spot saying I'd be towed. Eventually neighbor explained where my spot was.
I called immediatley about the paint - which had been placed in the walls about eight normal coats thick and was dripping everywhere. After paint dried, some paint started to crack and chip off the walls in this lead paint buildling - landlord said this is not an issue because they think there are several layers of paint still before the lead paint.
Once of the faucets had limited flow. This took eight phone calls and 3 attempts to fix.
My downstairs neighbor works until 2am. We both had a noise complaint. The landlord called me and told me that he's owned these units for 20 years and no one has ever had a noise complaint, so obviously it's not a significant issue. Which seems very unlikely since there is no insulation between units or the outside and I can hear everything my downstairs neighbor says.
I complained that the shared laundry didn't work - the landlord said they could not fix it at this time because it's someone else's contracted responsibility but did not offer any information on how to contact the other party.
Then my oven stopped working. After three phone calls, one man showed up with a very heavy new oven to move to the second floor. He was asking me to keep me company, clean up after him, if I lived alone!?!?! SO I left the apartment with my child. He later drove up to me and my child and asked us to get into his truck. I said no and after child and I returned from the park, the apartment was filled with natural gas. I shut off line, vented apartment, and related this story to my landlord the next day. He said that some natural gas smell is to be expected and there almost no chance there was a problem. I insisted there was. He said he's send someone over immediately and would I be there. I said no and left. Someone turned up six hours later after I'd returned, obviously hungover, with shit stained paints on, who stayed for half an hour. There was obviously still a gas leak and I called the gas company when he left. Landlord called me a liar and hysterical when I complained.
Even though I am the only adult in the house, landlord addresses all mail to my young male child.
Anyway, I don't feel safe or comfortable in this situation and problem keep arising that landlord is not able to fix (toilet keeps breaking, no light in hallways, furnace is having some unknown issue). I do not feel safe calling or confident that my landlord can maintain my this rental unit.
I called the police about the incident with the truck/gas. I called the better business bureau and they said they had no mechanism except to send a complaint that may be visible to other potentially. The tenants rights agency said that my best bet was to call the buildling expector because they could find the landlord if things weren't fixed in 3 months. I do not feel I would be safe as the landlord tried to repair these issues. I feel my only option is to move ASAP - but I would be stuck with rent until some other poor soul decides to rent this unit - I'd lose my security deposit and have to pay to move - all because my landlord is a total shmuck. Shouldn't I have some other options?
While many issues are unavoidable the gas leak sounds serious. When the gas company came did they shut down the gas lines for the leak and tag with the gas leak card?
What was the result of the gas leak?
posted by beccaj at 7:53 AM on January 22, 2018
What was the result of the gas leak?
posted by beccaj at 7:53 AM on January 22, 2018
Response by poster: The gas company came and replaced the fittings that were the wrong size. Gas company worker said they technically were not allowed to fix at the oven connection (which he did), but he would just fix it. I recieved no documentation of this incident.
posted by Kalmya at 7:55 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Kalmya at 7:55 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
In your situation, one of the first things I would do is call the tenant's rights agency and ask this specific question: "What needs to happen for me to be able to break my lease?" A follow-up could be, "Under which circumstances can I legally withhold rent?"
Landlords have responsibilities to you, the tenant: They have the responsibilities required by law, and they have the responsibilities required by your lease. Not living up to these responsibilities can be grounds for breaking your lease or withholding rent, but how this works varies by jurisdiction. You need someone knowledgeable, and that sounds like either the tenants rights agency or a lawyer.
You need to talk to someone and tell them what your desired outcome is: Out of this apartment as soon as possible without owing rent on the unit. If they tell you that none of this rises to the level of severity needed to get out of your lease - that is tough, but is a good reason to vote for better politicians (if you can vote).
I'd like to see this landlord smacked with some consequences and forced to provide basic maintenance. But even if you do that successfully, you still have to move - finding out how to do that should be a priority. The apartment is unsafe and you have an antagonistic relationship with the landlord. You can't force him to become a good landlord. Get out of there.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:16 AM on January 22, 2018 [16 favorites]
Landlords have responsibilities to you, the tenant: They have the responsibilities required by law, and they have the responsibilities required by your lease. Not living up to these responsibilities can be grounds for breaking your lease or withholding rent, but how this works varies by jurisdiction. You need someone knowledgeable, and that sounds like either the tenants rights agency or a lawyer.
You need to talk to someone and tell them what your desired outcome is: Out of this apartment as soon as possible without owing rent on the unit. If they tell you that none of this rises to the level of severity needed to get out of your lease - that is tough, but is a good reason to vote for better politicians (if you can vote).
I'd like to see this landlord smacked with some consequences and forced to provide basic maintenance. But even if you do that successfully, you still have to move - finding out how to do that should be a priority. The apartment is unsafe and you have an antagonistic relationship with the landlord. You can't force him to become a good landlord. Get out of there.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:16 AM on January 22, 2018 [16 favorites]
I know that places can be hard to find, but the only thing you gain by "winning" here is that you get to keep giving this crappy guy money. That doesn't really seem like a win to me.
posted by humboldt32 at 9:04 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by humboldt32 at 9:04 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
In the event of a gas leak, you should call the gas company first, and NOT go inside the property yourself.
Faulty heating, faulty toilet, gas leak - I agree with Kutsuwamushi, you should look into the minimum requirements for a rental property to be legally habitable/rentable in your jurisdiction. If the landlord is failing to maintain it in that state, there may be a legal basis for you to break the lease. (I am not a lawyer, I am not American).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:06 AM on January 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Faulty heating, faulty toilet, gas leak - I agree with Kutsuwamushi, you should look into the minimum requirements for a rental property to be legally habitable/rentable in your jurisdiction. If the landlord is failing to maintain it in that state, there may be a legal basis for you to break the lease. (I am not a lawyer, I am not American).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:06 AM on January 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Everyone is telling me to try to limit the amount of money and time I lose here. Shouldn't there be some machanism by which my landlord covers my time/costs? It seems insane I have to pay for him to ignore my rights.
posted by Kalmya at 9:15 AM on January 22, 2018
posted by Kalmya at 9:15 AM on January 22, 2018
It seems to me that you're looking for more inherent fairness than the system offers you. You are not wrong, but it seems not likely that you'll find it. The system is flawed and fairness cannot be guaranteed. Sorry.
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:20 AM on January 22, 2018 [23 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:20 AM on January 22, 2018 [23 favorites]
I would try to negotiate your move out with the landlord, so you don't owe any extra rent. If you do break your lease, get the terms in writing. It sounds like the landlord doesn't want to hear from you, and you don't like the landlord. You moving out would be best or both of you. It's in his best interest to agree.
I very seriously doubt that you're going to get the landlord to pay you to move. Were your lease up, you'd likely just move out on your own anyway. This just moves up that timeline. If your apartment is in the same condition you rented it, there's no reason for the landlord to keep your security deposit. Keeping the deposit is part of the move out negotiation, and obviously that means leaving the place how you found it, cleaning included (assuming it was clean!).
posted by cnc at 9:42 AM on January 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
I very seriously doubt that you're going to get the landlord to pay you to move. Were your lease up, you'd likely just move out on your own anyway. This just moves up that timeline. If your apartment is in the same condition you rented it, there's no reason for the landlord to keep your security deposit. Keeping the deposit is part of the move out negotiation, and obviously that means leaving the place how you found it, cleaning included (assuming it was clean!).
posted by cnc at 9:42 AM on January 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
It seems insane I have to pay for him to ignore my rights.
You signed a contract in which you promised certain things in exchange for other things. The contract dictates how you can exit the contract and under what circumstances.
There's no "fairness" here - there is only what the contract and the law provide.
Madison has a really good Tenant Resource Center. I'd reach out to them to get better info on your rights to break your lease and move out.
As for your deposit - it's been a while since I lived in Madison, but IIRC, they cannot keep your deposit to cover rent or as a penalty. Its only for repairs above and beyond normal wear and tear. The TRC will know for sure.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:48 AM on January 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
You signed a contract in which you promised certain things in exchange for other things. The contract dictates how you can exit the contract and under what circumstances.
There's no "fairness" here - there is only what the contract and the law provide.
Madison has a really good Tenant Resource Center. I'd reach out to them to get better info on your rights to break your lease and move out.
As for your deposit - it's been a while since I lived in Madison, but IIRC, they cannot keep your deposit to cover rent or as a penalty. Its only for repairs above and beyond normal wear and tear. The TRC will know for sure.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:48 AM on January 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
Small claims court. You cannot be recompensed for emotional damage, but if you can show the place was unhabitable and you had to move out to a reasonably priced place, you can sue for reimbursement.
Unfortunately the way to make this cost the landlord, beyond expenses, is by leaving a bad review.
posted by thesockpuppet at 10:28 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately the way to make this cost the landlord, beyond expenses, is by leaving a bad review.
posted by thesockpuppet at 10:28 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sometimes you make a deal with a schmuck. The law can't stop the person from being a schmuck. Even if you somehow manage to get your landlord to follow the letter of the law, he will still be a schmuck and you will still be unhappy as his tenant.
It's time to cut your losses and keep yourself safe.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 10:45 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's time to cut your losses and keep yourself safe.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 10:45 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Shouldn't there be some machanism by which my landlord covers my time/costs?
It's called a lawsuit. Talk to tenants' rights people about whether you have a valid case for small claims court. Other than that, unless he's managed to fall afoul of some technicality (reckless endangerment by hiring incompetent contractors, etc., which it doesn't sound like he has), there's no point - a standard lawsuit would cost you more money than you could get from him. (Even if you could get a ruling saying he owes you half a million dollars, he almost certainly doesn't have it to pay. Sure, he could be forced to sell the property... do you want to spend five years of your life attempting to squeeze out the value of a few lousy months from this guy?)
It is indeed not fair, that people can break the law and violate contracts and their victims have to either suck it up or spend massive amounts of time and other resources trying to get something from them. The solution to that is slow: vote in people who will make better housing laws, that allow for immediate relief for small problems.
Addressing mail to your son is likely the most legally problematic thing he's done. While a parent has the legal right to open a child's mail (mostly, sort of, it's complicated), you don't have the obligation to open mail not addressed to you.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:34 AM on January 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
It's called a lawsuit. Talk to tenants' rights people about whether you have a valid case for small claims court. Other than that, unless he's managed to fall afoul of some technicality (reckless endangerment by hiring incompetent contractors, etc., which it doesn't sound like he has), there's no point - a standard lawsuit would cost you more money than you could get from him. (Even if you could get a ruling saying he owes you half a million dollars, he almost certainly doesn't have it to pay. Sure, he could be forced to sell the property... do you want to spend five years of your life attempting to squeeze out the value of a few lousy months from this guy?)
It is indeed not fair, that people can break the law and violate contracts and their victims have to either suck it up or spend massive amounts of time and other resources trying to get something from them. The solution to that is slow: vote in people who will make better housing laws, that allow for immediate relief for small problems.
Addressing mail to your son is likely the most legally problematic thing he's done. While a parent has the legal right to open a child's mail (mostly, sort of, it's complicated), you don't have the obligation to open mail not addressed to you.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:34 AM on January 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
It's always a potential issue with small private landlords that their personal and financial circumstances are not underwritten by a safety net like you could expect with corporate-backed resources. You cannot compel him to have money or even common sense or the physical ability to do work if he can't afford to pay someone else. You can sue him all you want, but if he's in financial trouble you're probably quite a ways down the list of creditors who would get paid even if all his property and belongings were liquidated to provide a settlement.
Focus your legal leverage on getting out without incurring additional costs, do not bank on being paid back for your bad experience and inconvenience. You take on some risk when you rent from an individual, most of the time it works out okay and then sometimes it doesn't, but the one thing you can never do is force them to have money. Not everyone rents out property because it's a robust investment that keeps them rolling in cash.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:39 AM on January 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
Focus your legal leverage on getting out without incurring additional costs, do not bank on being paid back for your bad experience and inconvenience. You take on some risk when you rent from an individual, most of the time it works out okay and then sometimes it doesn't, but the one thing you can never do is force them to have money. Not everyone rents out property because it's a robust investment that keeps them rolling in cash.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:39 AM on January 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
Followup note: As much as possible, get a written trail for all communications with your landlord. Send emails; send texts; if you have a phone call, send a followup email saying, "I just want to confirm I understand this - we discussed...." Keep it polite and neutral, slanted in his favor as much as possible ("you said someone would come out tomorrow or maybe early next week" instead of "you said someone would be here by 5pm tomorrow") in order to get that "yeah, we talked about that" reply.
If you can't get verification from him, at least write down the time, date, and details of every conversation and phone call with him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:39 AM on January 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
If you can't get verification from him, at least write down the time, date, and details of every conversation and phone call with him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:39 AM on January 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
If you want to be effective at this, you need to read up on what specific things will allow you to break the lease, and what agencies enforce them. The BBB is useless and calling them is a complete waste of time. The police are for criminal matters, which none of the things you mention rise to. The lead paint thing is annoying, but the landlord is only required to notify you about it, not to fix it.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:40 AM on January 22, 2018
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:40 AM on January 22, 2018
Does the landlord manage more than one property? Could several people be having similar issues with the same landlord?
posted by dreamling at 11:57 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by dreamling at 11:57 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Even though I am the only adult in the house, landlord addresses all mail to my young male child.
Christ, this is an IMMENSE red flag. GET OUT.
posted by corb at 1:16 PM on January 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
Christ, this is an IMMENSE red flag. GET OUT.
posted by corb at 1:16 PM on January 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
I was once in a situation where my neighbors were making it unsafe for me to stay in my apartment building. I happened to be visiting our family lawyer for something related to my grandmother's estate; I asked him for advice and he offered to send a letter to the landlord telling them I had to break the lease and why, and asking for my deposit back. The landlord immediately complied. I don't remember exactly how much the lawyer charged, but I remember that it was a lot less then just eating the deposit.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:01 PM on January 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:01 PM on January 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think the reason people are telling you to just leave is because going the legal route is expensive, time-consuming, stressful, and there’s no guarantee you’d prevail even if you do have a case (which none of us can say.) So moving winds up being the fastest, cheapest, most sanity-preserving route, though it feels unfair.
Unfortunately I live in an area where landlords are as shitty as the market will bear because they know someone is always willing to pay to live in their crumbling infested building, and that they’ve fulfilled the bare minimum of their obligations by sending their strung out cousin to pretend to fix shit. Also, many landlords are willing to sort of play chicken and just pay whatever fines or fees they absolutely have to; I’ve never seen one so chastised that they change their ways— though a sternly worded legal letter might make them willing to part with your deposit.
posted by kapers at 5:53 PM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately I live in an area where landlords are as shitty as the market will bear because they know someone is always willing to pay to live in their crumbling infested building, and that they’ve fulfilled the bare minimum of their obligations by sending their strung out cousin to pretend to fix shit. Also, many landlords are willing to sort of play chicken and just pay whatever fines or fees they absolutely have to; I’ve never seen one so chastised that they change their ways— though a sternly worded legal letter might make them willing to part with your deposit.
posted by kapers at 5:53 PM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 7:42 AM on January 22, 2018