Do you stop bringing your kids over when a couple has marriage trouble?
January 7, 2018 9:39 AM Subscribe
Parents out there, when you know friends are going through rough times in their relationships, do you deliberately leave the kids and/or spouse at home when you visit? If so, can you help me understand why? I'm trying to figure out whether this is actually a thing or just a thing that's entirely in my head.
My spouse and I definitely haven't been getting along fairly often, and divorce is a topic that's been in the wind around the house for some time. (See: embarrassing previous questions.) We've been going to periodic couples-therapy sessions and so forth. Meanwhile, my perception is that my spouse's parent friends haven't brought their kids or spouses by as often when they come over to visit, though this is hard to quantify. We don't have kids ourselves, so that could be one reason why—not much to do here for kids, worried about disrupting my work, no fun pets, small breakable objects on display (though we've totally run around with friends' kids and played ball with friends' pets in the house), etc. But I feel like my spouse's friends used to bring family over more, and I always liked hanging out with them. I asked my spouse about it, and they demurred and didn't think my perception was accurate, or at least said they hadn't done anything to discourage people from bringing kids by.
And I don't think they did. Maybe my spouse's friends just don't like me as much anymore, on the basis of things they might've relayed; it's probably fair to say mine are more wary of my spouse now as well. I've just never been here before, so I'm not sure. I guess I'm worried parents could be getting a weird vibe here and choosing not to bring family over, etc. Or maybe my spouse has said things that weren't meant as warning signs, but that their more experienced friends took as warning signs. Perhaps they've experienced this before and decided it was better to be a bit more hands-off when things weren't going well with friends. But I couldn't find data or articles about whether this was something parents actually do when their friends are having relationship issues. And most of my friends don't have kids, so I don't know what's normal in that regard. It seems plausible that parents might do this when they're worried kids might be exposed to awkwardness, bad vibes, or people they might not see in the future because of divorce. But again, I don't know how much of this is just of my own imagining, not reality.
I don't expect any actionable outcome from this question. I'm just looking for info, almost from a sense of detached curiosity about whether this is how this works or just how I think it might work. Thanks for any thoughts!
My spouse and I definitely haven't been getting along fairly often, and divorce is a topic that's been in the wind around the house for some time. (See: embarrassing previous questions.) We've been going to periodic couples-therapy sessions and so forth. Meanwhile, my perception is that my spouse's parent friends haven't brought their kids or spouses by as often when they come over to visit, though this is hard to quantify. We don't have kids ourselves, so that could be one reason why—not much to do here for kids, worried about disrupting my work, no fun pets, small breakable objects on display (though we've totally run around with friends' kids and played ball with friends' pets in the house), etc. But I feel like my spouse's friends used to bring family over more, and I always liked hanging out with them. I asked my spouse about it, and they demurred and didn't think my perception was accurate, or at least said they hadn't done anything to discourage people from bringing kids by.
And I don't think they did. Maybe my spouse's friends just don't like me as much anymore, on the basis of things they might've relayed; it's probably fair to say mine are more wary of my spouse now as well. I've just never been here before, so I'm not sure. I guess I'm worried parents could be getting a weird vibe here and choosing not to bring family over, etc. Or maybe my spouse has said things that weren't meant as warning signs, but that their more experienced friends took as warning signs. Perhaps they've experienced this before and decided it was better to be a bit more hands-off when things weren't going well with friends. But I couldn't find data or articles about whether this was something parents actually do when their friends are having relationship issues. And most of my friends don't have kids, so I don't know what's normal in that regard. It seems plausible that parents might do this when they're worried kids might be exposed to awkwardness, bad vibes, or people they might not see in the future because of divorce. But again, I don't know how much of this is just of my own imagining, not reality.
I don't expect any actionable outcome from this question. I'm just looking for info, almost from a sense of detached curiosity about whether this is how this works or just how I think it might work. Thanks for any thoughts!
Looking at the timeline of your previous questions, I do notice that a lot went down this summer and fall. Now that it's winter the stress of the holidays has been upon us and a LOT of families use up all their social energy doing mandatory extended family things. We have a group of friends with kids and there is always a social lull at this time. So consider that as a factor. It might just be coincidence.
That said, kids are INSANELY observant. I might hold off bringing young kids to a friends house where the relationship is in trouble, not out of dislike for either of the couple, but because I just didn't want to answer a bunch of awkward questions. Or visiting by myself first to scope out how things are before doing a big family thing.
posted by selfmedicating at 10:02 AM on January 7, 2018 [8 favorites]
That said, kids are INSANELY observant. I might hold off bringing young kids to a friends house where the relationship is in trouble, not out of dislike for either of the couple, but because I just didn't want to answer a bunch of awkward questions. Or visiting by myself first to scope out how things are before doing a big family thing.
posted by selfmedicating at 10:02 AM on January 7, 2018 [8 favorites]
I don't know whether parents stop bringing kids to socialize with adult friends who are going through hard emotional times. You do mention that some don't bring partners at times as well. Maybe the ones who do show up without kids and/or partners have a sense of what you're going through and feel more comfortable and supportive than the family they leave at home.
I read through all your previous questions to get a sense of context. Given the history of your anguished questions and much advice about your difficult situation, this question seems way off-topic.
posted by Elsie at 10:16 AM on January 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
I read through all your previous questions to get a sense of context. Given the history of your anguished questions and much advice about your difficult situation, this question seems way off-topic.
posted by Elsie at 10:16 AM on January 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
The friends could be leaving kids/spouse at home in order to be available for a heart-to-heart talk, to give their full attention, to give the topic necessary adult privacy, etc.
posted by xo at 10:16 AM on January 7, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by xo at 10:16 AM on January 7, 2018 [19 favorites]
If your household is filled with unpleasant tension, maybe your friends don’t want to put their families through a time which isn’t going to be pleasant for anyone involved. I have someone in my life that I love but whose relationships at home are poor, and I only ask my husband to accompany me on rare occasions because I know it makes him uncomfortable to be around them.
posted by something something at 10:27 AM on January 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by something something at 10:27 AM on January 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
If I thought my childfree friend might need some emotional support, I would be unlikely to bring my sometimes-obnoxious kid with me to add stress to their life. (Note: all kids are obnoxious sometimes.) If it was my particular friend and not a couple-friend, my spouse probably wouldn’t be interested in doing the constant emotional calculus of how to be pleasant to people you know a lot of private things about, and I’d go over on my own.
posted by tchemgrrl at 10:35 AM on January 7, 2018 [22 favorites]
posted by tchemgrrl at 10:35 AM on January 7, 2018 [22 favorites]
I guess I'm worried parents could be getting a weird vibe here and choosing not to bring family over, etc.
They probably are. It sounds like the vibe is weird.
When I have friends who are going through stuff, I often leave my partner home when I come to visit, often because I'm planning to have a heart to heart with my friend about whatever is going on so the visit isn't really going to be fun hangout friend time. I also don't want to play fakey-couple stuff with people who seem to barely be able to stand each other (there is a specific couple I am thinking of here where I feel like having friends over and playing at being "normal" basically artificially props up what is otherwise a truly terrible relationship. Sitting around while they trade veiled barbs is basically the worst and if I have a choice I'll avoid it. While I love both of my friends, I do not love their current relationship or wish to be around it).
I'm not even sure why this is a worry for you when by all accounts this has been a relationship on the rocks for over a year and getting worse. If you can see it, your friends can see it. If you like seeing your friends' kids, try to go over there, make a plan with them or otherwise be proactive about the situation. If you're just using this as a litmus test to see if other people can sort of sense what's wrong and are acting accordingly, my answer would be "probably"
posted by jessamyn at 10:39 AM on January 7, 2018 [30 favorites]
They probably are. It sounds like the vibe is weird.
When I have friends who are going through stuff, I often leave my partner home when I come to visit, often because I'm planning to have a heart to heart with my friend about whatever is going on so the visit isn't really going to be fun hangout friend time. I also don't want to play fakey-couple stuff with people who seem to barely be able to stand each other (there is a specific couple I am thinking of here where I feel like having friends over and playing at being "normal" basically artificially props up what is otherwise a truly terrible relationship. Sitting around while they trade veiled barbs is basically the worst and if I have a choice I'll avoid it. While I love both of my friends, I do not love their current relationship or wish to be around it).
I'm not even sure why this is a worry for you when by all accounts this has been a relationship on the rocks for over a year and getting worse. If you can see it, your friends can see it. If you like seeing your friends' kids, try to go over there, make a plan with them or otherwise be proactive about the situation. If you're just using this as a litmus test to see if other people can sort of sense what's wrong and are acting accordingly, my answer would be "probably"
posted by jessamyn at 10:39 AM on January 7, 2018 [30 favorites]
So, if I was friends with a childless couple and I would go over to their house with my children and we would all hang out and the childless couple was very engaging with my child and we all had a good time, navigating the separation issues would be problematic. For one, it's likely that I, as my own person, am closer to one or the other in the couple. So, if the whole thing is going to fall apart, I might find myself leaning toward or away from 1/2 of the couple. And if my kid in the context of our "play dates" has a relationship of their own with the couple, it gets stranger. I don't want my kid to have to "pick a side" if the whole thing goes to pot. If there is tension already, one which is affecting my own personal enjoyment of hanging out with a couple (this happens all the time for all kinds of reasons – politics, grief, whatever) then I might be less inclined to hang out. And, yeah, if I'm navigating a million holiday commitments and additional workload that comes with it, tops of my list of hangouts for my family is not going to be the childless couple who is maybe/maybe not going to split up any day now. My time can only be sliced so thinly and I can only handle so many inputs when making a decision where to spend my time. Don't feel like it's a real calculus against you, it's actual a very un-nuanced decision.
Focus on your family and the kind of life you want to have before you worry about how everyone else is or isn't perceiving you. They are probably thinking farrrr less about your issues than you are. And those that are overthinking it still have nothing to do with how you need to live your life.
posted by amanda at 11:02 AM on January 7, 2018
Focus on your family and the kind of life you want to have before you worry about how everyone else is or isn't perceiving you. They are probably thinking farrrr less about your issues than you are. And those that are overthinking it still have nothing to do with how you need to live your life.
posted by amanda at 11:02 AM on January 7, 2018
My sister in law and her partner divorced last year and we absolutely stopped having our kids spend time there as often and definitely never without us. The vibe was weird and the kids picked up on it (they were two and four). I didn't want them subject to something I would have to explain, or that would make them worry that the same thing would happen to our relationship. I felt like, I will have to explain complicated relationships soon enough, I didn't want to get into it any sooner than I needed to.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 11:08 AM on January 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 11:08 AM on January 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
Hi! When my friends' marriages start to fail, I throw my support behind my friends. Not to prop up their marriages, but to support the individuals who need to make tough decisions. I am choosy about when I bring my kids over to the houses of couples-whose-marriages-are-concluding.
Firstly, My kids are lovely, chaotic, and energy-sucking, and I can't converse with grown-ups in full sentences when the kids are around.
Secondly, I might need to answer questions from my kids about the relationships of my friends. They notice and comment on changes, but kids don't need the details about grown-up relationships. When I foresee a future where the couple separates, leaving my kids at home lets me process the changes so I can avoid, and eventually give, an age-appropriate answer to them. When the couples do split, young kids are usually happy with simple statements like 'Sam and Pat each live in their own houses now.' But until this action takes place, details are just messy.
I re-read your ask history. You have poured so much emotion into your words, so many times. It seems like lots of work to be in this relationship.
posted by Sauter Vaguely at 11:15 AM on January 7, 2018 [6 favorites]
Firstly, My kids are lovely, chaotic, and energy-sucking, and I can't converse with grown-ups in full sentences when the kids are around.
Secondly, I might need to answer questions from my kids about the relationships of my friends. They notice and comment on changes, but kids don't need the details about grown-up relationships. When I foresee a future where the couple separates, leaving my kids at home lets me process the changes so I can avoid, and eventually give, an age-appropriate answer to them. When the couples do split, young kids are usually happy with simple statements like 'Sam and Pat each live in their own houses now.' But until this action takes place, details are just messy.
I re-read your ask history. You have poured so much emotion into your words, so many times. It seems like lots of work to be in this relationship.
posted by Sauter Vaguely at 11:15 AM on January 7, 2018 [6 favorites]
I don't have kids but I recently was spending some time with a married couple who are having trouble, I was a little relieved that the plans ended up happening on a day my partner was unavailable.
It wasn't a deliberate exclusion, I wasn't like "oh, definitely don't want to bring partner THERE." But like...he doesn't know them well, and I didn't really know what to expect from the vibe, and it was kind of a relief to only have to worry about my own reactions/perceptions.
From a practical perspective: If you were close with your friends' kids, they may have been told that [friend and friend's wife] might be getting a divorce. Now that you're not, for the moment anyhow, your friends might be worried their kids will ask YOU some tough or embarrassing questions.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:17 AM on January 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
It wasn't a deliberate exclusion, I wasn't like "oh, definitely don't want to bring partner THERE." But like...he doesn't know them well, and I didn't really know what to expect from the vibe, and it was kind of a relief to only have to worry about my own reactions/perceptions.
From a practical perspective: If you were close with your friends' kids, they may have been told that [friend and friend's wife] might be getting a divorce. Now that you're not, for the moment anyhow, your friends might be worried their kids will ask YOU some tough or embarrassing questions.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:17 AM on January 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
It seems plausible that parents might do this when they're worried kids might be exposed to awkwardness, bad vibes, or people they might not see in the future because of divorce.
Yes, that's entirely right; plus, people can sense when they may be needed for full-attention heart-to-hearts, which aren't possible with kids in tow.
Plus, you say there's nothing for kids to do at your house, which is probably true - why would there be? If your friends brought their kids round earlier, maybe it was before they figured that out. Or maybe it was when the kids were smaller and couldn't be left alone, and now that they're bigger they're in preschool, or have expressed a preference to not come over and be bored. Kids grow and change really fast.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:19 AM on January 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yes, that's entirely right; plus, people can sense when they may be needed for full-attention heart-to-hearts, which aren't possible with kids in tow.
Plus, you say there's nothing for kids to do at your house, which is probably true - why would there be? If your friends brought their kids round earlier, maybe it was before they figured that out. Or maybe it was when the kids were smaller and couldn't be left alone, and now that they're bigger they're in preschool, or have expressed a preference to not come over and be bored. Kids grow and change really fast.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:19 AM on January 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
If I don't have to take my kid somewhere, it's pretty easy to decide not to. Will it be more fun/engaging for them than the alternative? Will I be able to give them sufficient focus without detracting from my purpose? Will it disrupt their routine, expose them to illness, disturb them with unfortunate information or the implication thereof? Are emotions likely to run high, voices be raised angrily? Do I just want to do it alone?
It sounds like visiting your place with kids was a bit of a stretch at the best of times, and now the scale is being tipped farther by a bunch of other factors that totally outweigh "I think my friend likes seeing Child(ren)." Plus, even very young kids are totally capable of independently deciding that they don't want to be involved in emotionally fraught situations, even if they don't have the words to explain why.
posted by teremala at 11:43 AM on January 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
It sounds like visiting your place with kids was a bit of a stretch at the best of times, and now the scale is being tipped farther by a bunch of other factors that totally outweigh "I think my friend likes seeing Child(ren)." Plus, even very young kids are totally capable of independently deciding that they don't want to be involved in emotionally fraught situations, even if they don't have the words to explain why.
posted by teremala at 11:43 AM on January 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
From a Mefite who wishes to remain anonymous:
My best friend explicitly told me they wouldn’t bring their kids to my home due to the nature of the frequent arguments my spouse and I were having publically. The arguments were predominantly due to my spouse’s mental illness, but nevertheless not appropriate, unpleasant, and not something anyone should be exposed to. My friend and I have an extremely close and honest relationship where we can say these types of things to each other, without judgement or danger to our friendship, but ours is a rare friendship and I’m sure nobody else would have said this so bluntly, they would have just stopped spending time with me/us.posted by LobsterMitten at 12:28 PM on January 7, 2018 [10 favorites]
If I thought that my friend needed to unload or have a serious personal adult conversation, and there was nothing to distract my kids (as you mentioned, lack of other kids, dog, fun games or outdoor area) then I would leave my kids at home. But maybe not for the reason you think ( I did not check out your history for this answer). My kids are a distraction to me even when all the fun things are present. They constantly come in and interrupt the conversation. Kids are gonna kid, and that's fine when everyone's in a casual mood, but when my friend needs my attention or a shoulder to lean on and I agree to come by, it's crappy of me as a friend to not be able to provide my full attention. So I would leave my kids home for that reason.
posted by vignettist at 1:07 PM on January 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by vignettist at 1:07 PM on January 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
You and your spouse were separated over the summer. Your spouse’s friends probably know about that. This would probably be a contributor to not bringing kids around, for all the reasons everyone lists. But it’s not (just) about the vibes; the friends know because they can see it.
posted by RainyJay at 1:30 PM on January 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by RainyJay at 1:30 PM on January 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Reading your previous questions, I think what you're really asking here is: Are my spouse's problems going to keep children out of my life?
And yes, I think they are. Friends will keep their kids away. You will not be having kids with this person. So, yes, if you want children in your life (whether your own or someone else's), you will need to separate from this person permanently. You are making a trade here, of a life with more children in it, or this one you currently have. I think this is why it seems like such a big deal if friends don't bring their kids over.
Re-reading your previous questions, I sense a really big block around the idea of divorce. Maybe you grew up in a culture where divorce was a terrible act of failure, or a taboo punished with total social exclusion, or the cause of economic disaster. I think it would really help for you to examine those beliefs and whether they apply in your case. Divorce can be terrible, but it can also be liberating. You need to see the positive as well as the negative side of divorce.
posted by 3491again at 4:02 PM on January 7, 2018 [13 favorites]
And yes, I think they are. Friends will keep their kids away. You will not be having kids with this person. So, yes, if you want children in your life (whether your own or someone else's), you will need to separate from this person permanently. You are making a trade here, of a life with more children in it, or this one you currently have. I think this is why it seems like such a big deal if friends don't bring their kids over.
Re-reading your previous questions, I sense a really big block around the idea of divorce. Maybe you grew up in a culture where divorce was a terrible act of failure, or a taboo punished with total social exclusion, or the cause of economic disaster. I think it would really help for you to examine those beliefs and whether they apply in your case. Divorce can be terrible, but it can also be liberating. You need to see the positive as well as the negative side of divorce.
posted by 3491again at 4:02 PM on January 7, 2018 [13 favorites]
If there's been tense or drama-filled previous visits, or if those parents are likely to believe their might be - or even just that the person they're visiting is likely to want to be discussing said relationship issues that are inappropriate for children's ears... then yes, they're a lot less likely to bring the kids around.
posted by stormyteal at 4:46 AM on January 8, 2018
posted by stormyteal at 4:46 AM on January 8, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:49 AM on January 7, 2018 [34 favorites]