Can grad school work for me?
October 24, 2017 10:30 AM Subscribe
I've been obsessing about going to grad school for a doctorate in health policy for 3 years now, but I have repeatedly rejected pursuing the idea for several different logistical and financial reasons. But today I attended (half of) an open house at my program of choice. I left after the first hour because I realized there's no way I could make it work. I'm heartbroken. How do grown-ups who support themselves and a family do this? Am I not seeing some options?
Apparently this Ph.D. program (and most?) funds everything: tuition, fees, health insurance, and they pay a stipend of $21K. Great! A little lower than a grad student friend gets in his program, but not nothing. But to support myself and my son I need to be bringing at the very, very least $50K. I was assuming that I could work part-time to make up the deficit. I asked the program rep about this, and she said none of their students work outside jobs and they do not recommend it.
How can anyone live on $21K? How do other students do this? The other people at the open house were all grownups who work for a living, not kids living at home with their parents. This is the greater Boston area, by the way. There's no way to pare down our expenses any more than we have already, so I know for sure that we need at least $$29K on top of that. I rent (paying the lowest rent I can find and renting out one of our rooms), and support my young adult son who lives with me, and will not be able to go out on his own for at least a couple more years for reasons.
There are some other significant obstacles to my pursuing this, but I might be able to work with them if I could figure out the financial part.
Oh, one other question: is it possible to prepare for the GRE's in 3 1/2 weeks, having never taken them before, on my own with no prep classes?
Thanks, all!
Apparently this Ph.D. program (and most?) funds everything: tuition, fees, health insurance, and they pay a stipend of $21K. Great! A little lower than a grad student friend gets in his program, but not nothing. But to support myself and my son I need to be bringing at the very, very least $50K. I was assuming that I could work part-time to make up the deficit. I asked the program rep about this, and she said none of their students work outside jobs and they do not recommend it.
How can anyone live on $21K? How do other students do this? The other people at the open house were all grownups who work for a living, not kids living at home with their parents. This is the greater Boston area, by the way. There's no way to pare down our expenses any more than we have already, so I know for sure that we need at least $$29K on top of that. I rent (paying the lowest rent I can find and renting out one of our rooms), and support my young adult son who lives with me, and will not be able to go out on his own for at least a couple more years for reasons.
There are some other significant obstacles to my pursuing this, but I might be able to work with them if I could figure out the financial part.
Oh, one other question: is it possible to prepare for the GRE's in 3 1/2 weeks, having never taken them before, on my own with no prep classes?
Thanks, all!
How can anyone live on $21K? How do other students do this?
Loans and/or credit card debt, generally. I know people with lower stipends, in rental markets as pricey as yours or pricier. My own stipend was lower than that, in fact. For those who don't take loans or go into debt, the answer is usually family help or a partner who is employed full-time. Some people do part-time work or freelancing, but I don't know anyone who has worked more than 20h/week while doing full-time graduate study (though that was partly because they were TAs in their programs and/or adjuncting, which is time-consuming and hard to schedule around). I know a few people who did grad school while parenting, but they all had partners who had full-time jobs.
Does this program involve any teaching/researching/TA responsibilities from you? If not, and if you freelance or have a somewhat flexible schedule, you can probably still work, though maybe not full-time.
Regarding the GRE: it's possible, though it depends on your personal strengths. If you have not yet done so, try a free practice test and see how it goes.
posted by halation at 10:48 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Loans and/or credit card debt, generally. I know people with lower stipends, in rental markets as pricey as yours or pricier. My own stipend was lower than that, in fact. For those who don't take loans or go into debt, the answer is usually family help or a partner who is employed full-time. Some people do part-time work or freelancing, but I don't know anyone who has worked more than 20h/week while doing full-time graduate study (though that was partly because they were TAs in their programs and/or adjuncting, which is time-consuming and hard to schedule around). I know a few people who did grad school while parenting, but they all had partners who had full-time jobs.
Does this program involve any teaching/researching/TA responsibilities from you? If not, and if you freelance or have a somewhat flexible schedule, you can probably still work, though maybe not full-time.
Regarding the GRE: it's possible, though it depends on your personal strengths. If you have not yet done so, try a free practice test and see how it goes.
posted by halation at 10:48 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fortunately I can answer the GRE bit for you! I found the GRE Powerprep stuff sufficient. I'd take the free timed test for a baseline like, today, and then study some as needed with a cram book or two, then take one of their paid timed tests a week out or so and refine the cramming for that last week. I'd not stress about it if you're comfortable with standardized tests and the program doesn't require a super-high score.
YMMV, but that plan bought me about twenty percentile points of score increase in math when I decided six weeks out from the application deadline that I wanted to apply to a Master's program, so hopefully it helps you, too.
posted by hollyholly at 10:49 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
YMMV, but that plan bought me about twenty percentile points of score increase in math when I decided six weeks out from the application deadline that I wanted to apply to a Master's program, so hopefully it helps you, too.
posted by hollyholly at 10:49 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: The $50K is pre-tax, before taxes and other deductions like insurance. Take-home at the job I was just laid off from, and which paid just enough for us to live, was a little under $36K. It was a hair less than $56K pre-tax, but I was low-balling an estimate at $50K which I figured would be difficult but possible.
posted by primate moon at 10:51 AM on October 24, 2017
posted by primate moon at 10:51 AM on October 24, 2017
Besides the stipend that you receive, you can also apply for other financial aid (e.g., mostly loans for grad school). The amount you will be eligible will depend on the amount of financial need you have, which will be different for you than for a single student with no kids. I knew some people in law school who were taking out more loans to cover their expenses, there is definitely a system in place for this. It may radically change the financial calculus as to whether the degree is a good idea though. I don't think there is any easy way to get around that, unfortunately.
posted by skewed at 10:56 AM on October 24, 2017
posted by skewed at 10:56 AM on October 24, 2017
Maybe it’s not clear but a lot of grad students in the sciences are about 22 years old, have no dependents, and share housing with 1-3 other grad students. They may survive on ramen and takeout, or they may be very thrifty good cooks. They don’t drive nice cars or nice clothes or have much disposable income.
Also keep in mind that many good state schools are not located in urban/coastal centers with high costs of living.
So that’s how it works for a lot of people to get PhDs and live off stipends.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:57 AM on October 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
Also keep in mind that many good state schools are not located in urban/coastal centers with high costs of living.
So that’s how it works for a lot of people to get PhDs and live off stipends.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:57 AM on October 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
How do grown-ups who support themselves and a family do this?
Not alone, usually. There's a reason most education is designed around unmarried people often still living with their parents. If they're actually doing it on their own, they rack up debt.
You may be able to shave costs a bit more than you'd thought, and take a part-time job that only brings in a little extra, and cope with that. Or you may be able to find modest loans that still make everything a bit tight, but won't take too long to pay off.
I have no idea about grad school, but I do know plenty of people support a small family on $21k/year; if grad school takes no more time than a normal full-time job, it's do-able. If you haven't lived at that level of income before, you may need to look into cost-saving tips in a lot of areas:
Leanne Brown's Good and Cheap: Eat Well on $4/day
Poorcraft: The funnybook fundamentals of living well on less
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:57 AM on October 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
Not alone, usually. There's a reason most education is designed around unmarried people often still living with their parents. If they're actually doing it on their own, they rack up debt.
You may be able to shave costs a bit more than you'd thought, and take a part-time job that only brings in a little extra, and cope with that. Or you may be able to find modest loans that still make everything a bit tight, but won't take too long to pay off.
I have no idea about grad school, but I do know plenty of people support a small family on $21k/year; if grad school takes no more time than a normal full-time job, it's do-able. If you haven't lived at that level of income before, you may need to look into cost-saving tips in a lot of areas:
Leanne Brown's Good and Cheap: Eat Well on $4/day
Poorcraft: The funnybook fundamentals of living well on less
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:57 AM on October 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
Folks I knew did it by going into debt, or by having rich parents or spouses, or by having saved for the opportunity, or by going part time (less possible in the sciences, more possible in other fields, YMMV). Some programs have "returning students" programs with additional stipends and services available.
Personally, I lived on that amount by dint of it being a small step up in my salary, but I did not have a child, and was astonished to be paid to learn. I mean... you are being paid to learn, after all. It is vastly different than most educational opportunities.
posted by tchemgrrl at 10:59 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Personally, I lived on that amount by dint of it being a small step up in my salary, but I did not have a child, and was astonished to be paid to learn. I mean... you are being paid to learn, after all. It is vastly different than most educational opportunities.
posted by tchemgrrl at 10:59 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ph.D programs generally do not tolerate candidates holding any type of employment other than the responsibilities directly related to their program, for which they generally under-pay, pretty much guaranteeing you a ramen-filled life right at or slightly above the poverty line for 3-5 years. It's almost like they want to see you suffer. When I was in grad school, I got shit from my advisor constantly for being in a band that would occasionally pay bar gigs on the weekends. She said it counted as employment outside the university and that it technically was against the rules. I told her that I needed it to pay my gas bill. My stipend from my Ph.D program was $1400/mo. I also sold plasma to get by. I assume that people who aren't scraping by in a doctoral program are married to rich person or come from a family with money, or are operating a cam business on the side or selling drugs, or putting their groceries on credit cards.
Here's the big question: assuming you find a way to complete the Ph.D, all struggles aside, are you going to be employable once you've secured your degree? What is the job market like for professionals with a terminal degree in that field? Will you need to do an extensive job search? Are you ready to move across the country in order to secure a position that pays well? Will you be working in academia post-Ph.D, or are there other options for you in the corporate sector?
*I ask because as a tenured faculty member at a midwestern public university, I see many highly-qualified (Ph.D plus post-graduate work) professionals who are resigned to a life of adjunct work due to the nature of our field (not anything related to health policy, so it may be a different world for you). These are brilliant people who are incredibly talented and in many cases overly qualified, yet they struggle to pay the bills and secure benefits because higher ed seems to be phasing out tenure-track.
tl:dr: If your Ph.D will guarantee you a high-paying job OUTSIDE of academia, and you can struggle through the next 3-4 years on ramen, go for it. If your Ph.D will funnel you into a job in academia, think long and hard about how much of a masochist you are and if you can make saltines an entree for the foreseeable future.
posted by deliciouspancakes at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2017 [20 favorites]
Here's the big question: assuming you find a way to complete the Ph.D, all struggles aside, are you going to be employable once you've secured your degree? What is the job market like for professionals with a terminal degree in that field? Will you need to do an extensive job search? Are you ready to move across the country in order to secure a position that pays well? Will you be working in academia post-Ph.D, or are there other options for you in the corporate sector?
*I ask because as a tenured faculty member at a midwestern public university, I see many highly-qualified (Ph.D plus post-graduate work) professionals who are resigned to a life of adjunct work due to the nature of our field (not anything related to health policy, so it may be a different world for you). These are brilliant people who are incredibly talented and in many cases overly qualified, yet they struggle to pay the bills and secure benefits because higher ed seems to be phasing out tenure-track.
tl:dr: If your Ph.D will guarantee you a high-paying job OUTSIDE of academia, and you can struggle through the next 3-4 years on ramen, go for it. If your Ph.D will funnel you into a job in academia, think long and hard about how much of a masochist you are and if you can make saltines an entree for the foreseeable future.
posted by deliciouspancakes at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2017 [20 favorites]
I was assuming that I could work part-time to make up the deficit. I asked the program rep about this, and she said none of their students work outside jobs and they do not recommend it.
that's already a step above programs where you're expressly forbidden from taking outside employment as part of the TA contract, and you can't let them find out if you want to keep your teaching position. With respect to the program rep, she has no idea if any of the students work outside jobs, only if they've formally announced it to her. and they wouldn't. to find out for sure you'd have to talk to current students in the appropriate (drunk) forum.
she's right not to recommend it and neither do I, grad school done seriously is a full-time job and if you want to get through the program on time or even faster, you will be spending 40 hours a week on it or more. but you can; people do. you would be exhausted and risk burning out and having to quit, but it is a thing that is done.
as for GREs, GREs are like SATs -- you're not supposed to, or to have to, study or prepare for them like a test of specific coursework. the math part is actually much easier than the SAT. so, take a few practice tests to get familiar with the format, figure out if your program cares about some portions more than others, and focus on those.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
that's already a step above programs where you're expressly forbidden from taking outside employment as part of the TA contract, and you can't let them find out if you want to keep your teaching position. With respect to the program rep, she has no idea if any of the students work outside jobs, only if they've formally announced it to her. and they wouldn't. to find out for sure you'd have to talk to current students in the appropriate (drunk) forum.
she's right not to recommend it and neither do I, grad school done seriously is a full-time job and if you want to get through the program on time or even faster, you will be spending 40 hours a week on it or more. but you can; people do. you would be exhausted and risk burning out and having to quit, but it is a thing that is done.
as for GREs, GREs are like SATs -- you're not supposed to, or to have to, study or prepare for them like a test of specific coursework. the math part is actually much easier than the SAT. so, take a few practice tests to get familiar with the format, figure out if your program cares about some portions more than others, and focus on those.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Great info and links Eris, but yes, grad school usually takes a lot more than 40 hrs/wk to do well. I made it a point to fight against the ‘norm’ of putting in over 80 hrs, but I seldom got down to 40.
posted by SaltySalticid at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2017
posted by SaltySalticid at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2017
About the no part time work thing - were you talking to the admissions people? Have you been in touch with any potential supervisors? I'm pretty sure the official line in my old grad department would have been the same as yours, but my supervisor turned out to be more flexible than most and between a heavy TA load and a work-study office job (in the same department, which has some additional perks) I managed to double my income for a couple semesters. But the time I had to devote to research decreased drastically, so there are trade offs to consider.
Most people I know who went through grad school with a kid/other adult financial responsibilities had a supportive partner bringing in a significantly higher income.
posted by btfreek at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2017
Most people I know who went through grad school with a kid/other adult financial responsibilities had a supportive partner bringing in a significantly higher income.
posted by btfreek at 11:00 AM on October 24, 2017
I do know people who worked part time--editing, tutoring, even consulting gigs for government agencies--during their PhDs, even though our department didn't recommend it. Or maybe even didn't allow it. They just didn't let the department know. I'm not sure how much they were able to bring in top of their fellowships, however.
Academic breaks can be a very good time for intensive part time income-earning. It would be harder in earlier years when you are doing intensive coursework or when you are preparing for quals than in later years, when you are focused on your dissertation. The downside is that you will probably take longer to finish your degree, and maybe run out of fellowship money and have to take on more teaching work. Or loans.
Also, contra larthegreat, in my experience graduate stipends or TA/RA money was fully taxable. (That or I overpaid drastically!)
posted by col_pogo at 11:03 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
Academic breaks can be a very good time for intensive part time income-earning. It would be harder in earlier years when you are doing intensive coursework or when you are preparing for quals than in later years, when you are focused on your dissertation. The downside is that you will probably take longer to finish your degree, and maybe run out of fellowship money and have to take on more teaching work. Or loans.
Also, contra larthegreat, in my experience graduate stipends or TA/RA money was fully taxable. (That or I overpaid drastically!)
posted by col_pogo at 11:03 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
(tl;dr summary of my answer: don't believe what anybody tells you about lifestyle factors unless they are students in your desired program now or were within the last two years. Administration and faculty are gatekeepers and/or salespeople: they will tell you what an ideal student does in public, not what you can get away with.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:05 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:05 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
col_pogo: "Also, contra larthegreat, in my experience graduate stipends or TA/RA money was fully taxable"
Yes, graduate fellowships have been fully taxable income since Reagan's tax reform of 1986.
posted by crazy with stars at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yes, graduate fellowships have been fully taxable income since Reagan's tax reform of 1986.
posted by crazy with stars at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are you wedded to staying in Boston? Cost of living is particularly high there. $21K goes a lot farther in places like Pittsburgh, Nashville, Chapel Hill, or another Midwestern/Southern college town or city. Even Amherst or New Haven or Providence is probably significantly better.
Does the program offer housing? Many graduate programs do have subsidized housing, particularly in major cities but even in college towns. This can make a huge difference in livability.
$21K seems pretty low to me for Boston in 2017, but I was in the sciences ($27-30K in NJ) so that could be the relevant difference. Unfortunately you will almost certainly have to pay taxes on your stipend even if it's not considered "earned income." On the other hand your federal taxes will probably be pretty tiny at that level of income, especially if you can claim your son as a dependent.
It's possible to supplement your income with tutoring, and possibly by editing papers or teaching a lot, though tutoring is usually a way better return on the time investment. This is especially true if you have high standardized test scores, since you can charge like $75/hr. Seconding queenofbithynia and btfreek that the official line is always that people don't do it and that merely "not recommended" is a legit opening.
I do know several people who had kids in their PhD program, though they tended to be very young kids and I don't think any of them were single parents (though none of them were married to rich people either, they tended to be two-student couples). I'm not sure from your description whether your son is capable of helping you run the household, whether he works, and how much his expenses are.
deliciouspancakes is asking the right questions about your future post-PhD program. You need to look very carefully at what jobs graduates of those specific programs get after graduation. Are they mostly in adjunct hell or underemployed, or are they working for fancy think-tanks etc?
posted by en forme de poire at 11:12 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Does the program offer housing? Many graduate programs do have subsidized housing, particularly in major cities but even in college towns. This can make a huge difference in livability.
$21K seems pretty low to me for Boston in 2017, but I was in the sciences ($27-30K in NJ) so that could be the relevant difference. Unfortunately you will almost certainly have to pay taxes on your stipend even if it's not considered "earned income." On the other hand your federal taxes will probably be pretty tiny at that level of income, especially if you can claim your son as a dependent.
It's possible to supplement your income with tutoring, and possibly by editing papers or teaching a lot, though tutoring is usually a way better return on the time investment. This is especially true if you have high standardized test scores, since you can charge like $75/hr. Seconding queenofbithynia and btfreek that the official line is always that people don't do it and that merely "not recommended" is a legit opening.
I do know several people who had kids in their PhD program, though they tended to be very young kids and I don't think any of them were single parents (though none of them were married to rich people either, they tended to be two-student couples). I'm not sure from your description whether your son is capable of helping you run the household, whether he works, and how much his expenses are.
deliciouspancakes is asking the right questions about your future post-PhD program. You need to look very carefully at what jobs graduates of those specific programs get after graduation. Are they mostly in adjunct hell or underemployed, or are they working for fancy think-tanks etc?
posted by en forme de poire at 11:12 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
While it may be fully taxable, $21k with a dependant, even if not a minor, is likely to put you in a very low tax bracket. It might be worth checking the numbers - fill out a 1040 form for last year to see what it would've cost you in taxes.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:19 AM on October 24, 2017
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:19 AM on October 24, 2017
And yeah, there's not much cramming you can do for the GRE, except maybe vocabulary word flash cards. I took a group class but didn't really get anything out of it that I couldn't have gotten from just doing a bunch of practice exams.
If I had to do it over again I would have mostly practiced the writing prompts. One of the graders is a computer (seriously) so look for the stupid things that the computer cares about: sophisticated vocabulary, length, no repetitiveness, signposting words/phrases like "nevertheless," "moreover," "in contrast", etc. You can find guides to it online.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:23 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
If I had to do it over again I would have mostly practiced the writing prompts. One of the graders is a computer (seriously) so look for the stupid things that the computer cares about: sophisticated vocabulary, length, no repetitiveness, signposting words/phrases like "nevertheless," "moreover," "in contrast", etc. You can find guides to it online.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:23 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
When I was getting my doctorate in biochemistry, I was paid $36k annually before taxes. I lived alone in LA (rent was $1000), and ate very simply. My ex-husband gave me our paid-off car in the divorce settlement, which helped a lot. My program was fairly large, and to the best of my knowledge, most students that had kids also had partners that were either full-time earners or also students and thus supplemented each others' incomes.
PhD programs in the sciences and related fields are work-intensive and require a lot of time. You don't mention if your son is able to look after himself while you're gone, but it's entirely likely that you may have to work evenings and weekends during your course of study.
I can somewhat empathize with you on this, as I've been wanting to go back to grad school for a new career path. My son is a toddler, and my partner could support us three on his salary, but we wouldn't be able to afford the childcare that we'd need as we have no family around and I'd be in school full-time. I've had to table my dreams for the conceivable future, but my partner and I are working towards setting up an infrastructure that would allow me to do this once my son is older and doesn't need me around as much as he currently does (7-10 years from now.) It is heartbreaking to not be able to follow what your heart so greatly desires, but I wonder if you might be able to start saving, taking the GRE, researching COL and schools with your desired program in cheaper areas, etc., with a view to enrolling in a program once your son is more independent.
Good luck with everything.
posted by Everydayville at 11:27 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
PhD programs in the sciences and related fields are work-intensive and require a lot of time. You don't mention if your son is able to look after himself while you're gone, but it's entirely likely that you may have to work evenings and weekends during your course of study.
I can somewhat empathize with you on this, as I've been wanting to go back to grad school for a new career path. My son is a toddler, and my partner could support us three on his salary, but we wouldn't be able to afford the childcare that we'd need as we have no family around and I'd be in school full-time. I've had to table my dreams for the conceivable future, but my partner and I are working towards setting up an infrastructure that would allow me to do this once my son is older and doesn't need me around as much as he currently does (7-10 years from now.) It is heartbreaking to not be able to follow what your heart so greatly desires, but I wonder if you might be able to start saving, taking the GRE, researching COL and schools with your desired program in cheaper areas, etc., with a view to enrolling in a program once your son is more independent.
Good luck with everything.
posted by Everydayville at 11:27 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just for reference, my stipend when I entered grad school (in the sciences, in 2009, on Long Island) was $15k. It went up to $17k a few years ago.
I worked a second job during my last year of grad school to make ends meet. I kept very quiet about it, but not quiet enough, because some people in the program ended up Very Mad that I was working (to, you know, pay my bills) instead of doing nothing but writing up. So if you take the second-job route, keep it even quieter than I did?
posted by pemberkins at 11:30 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
I worked a second job during my last year of grad school to make ends meet. I kept very quiet about it, but not quiet enough, because some people in the program ended up Very Mad that I was working (to, you know, pay my bills) instead of doing nothing but writing up. So if you take the second-job route, keep it even quieter than I did?
posted by pemberkins at 11:30 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aside from the poor graduate student trope, those people with real lives and jobs who you saw? A lot of them are married. Life with two earners in the household is just, well, easier. When you do it that way and you're both employed professionals, you spend a few years learning to live on as close to one income as possible and banking a bunch of it, and then you have savings and one income to get you through school. A lot of the people I went to law school with were doing this, and it was super annoying to me, too, but that's how they make it work. And even there, in the best-case scenario, there was usually 3-4 years of prep time involved to be able to do so comfortably, from the people I knew when I was in law school. There's often, especially with more conservative sort of men, a sort of tacit understanding involved with this: Wife works AND does more than half the household stuff while he's in school so that he can do as well as humanly possible, and then when he graduates and finds a decent job she can cut back to part time or stop working. In my law program, there were a bunch of guys like this who I generally wanted to throttle because, I mean, I wouldn't have ranked a few places below them if I had someone making me dinner and paying all the bills while I studied. Some of us still had to do laundry during finals. Grumble.
But yeah, for the vast majority of the population, the people who don't have spouses or parents who can foot the bill? It's not at all practical. So either you do things that are extreme and you become the person who lives on ramen with six roommates, or you wait a number of years to scrimp and save, or, well, there's a reason most people don't have graduate degrees. There's just no magic solution for it. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it! I'm just saying, if it seems insane, that's because it is.
posted by Sequence at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
But yeah, for the vast majority of the population, the people who don't have spouses or parents who can foot the bill? It's not at all practical. So either you do things that are extreme and you become the person who lives on ramen with six roommates, or you wait a number of years to scrimp and save, or, well, there's a reason most people don't have graduate degrees. There's just no magic solution for it. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it! I'm just saying, if it seems insane, that's because it is.
posted by Sequence at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Another academic here, chiming in mostly to second what deliciouspancakes said. I think that the question here really is one of what you hope will happen after the PhD and why you'd be pursuing one? Are you doing it for the love of learning more about a subject, per a suggestion in a previous post? Or are you hoping to have a career in academia or to land an academia-like job in the private sector one day? Because if it's the former, then I think that there are better ways to go about getting that itch scratched than enrolling into a PhD program, which will absolutely be designed with the idea that the students in that program will hit the ground ready to run on the 60-hours a week hamster wheel of some version of "publish or perish."
It's true that a lot of PhD students moonlight as tutors or freelancers, especially in the summers, but it's also true that they sacrifice sleep, family time, and hobbies to do so, and that those hours spent on work outside of the PhD more often than not jeopardize their progress through the program as well as progress on the research or publications that are necessary to launch their careers post graduation.
There are a lot of options between a B.A. and a PhD, many of which do offer some funding opportunities. Online courses, master's programs, continuing education programs, and employer-sponsored education programs, to name a few. I would consider pursuing those if what you want is to spend more time learning about a subject, enhancing work experience you already have, or transitioning to another line of work.
I would only consider the financial and time strain of a PhD (and there's really no way for it to be other than straining) if what you want is a career as an academic or similar. And as deliciouspancakes said, I'd think long and hard about whether or not you really do want such a career, given how competitive the kinds of careers that PhDs normally pursue are and how much time as well as effort they take to establish.
Good luck!
posted by pinkacademic at 11:50 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's true that a lot of PhD students moonlight as tutors or freelancers, especially in the summers, but it's also true that they sacrifice sleep, family time, and hobbies to do so, and that those hours spent on work outside of the PhD more often than not jeopardize their progress through the program as well as progress on the research or publications that are necessary to launch their careers post graduation.
There are a lot of options between a B.A. and a PhD, many of which do offer some funding opportunities. Online courses, master's programs, continuing education programs, and employer-sponsored education programs, to name a few. I would consider pursuing those if what you want is to spend more time learning about a subject, enhancing work experience you already have, or transitioning to another line of work.
I would only consider the financial and time strain of a PhD (and there's really no way for it to be other than straining) if what you want is a career as an academic or similar. And as deliciouspancakes said, I'd think long and hard about whether or not you really do want such a career, given how competitive the kinds of careers that PhDs normally pursue are and how much time as well as effort they take to establish.
Good luck!
posted by pinkacademic at 11:50 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
I got my Master's degree as a single parent, then enrolled in a PhD program at a different school and did not finish. There was a big difference in the two programs in terms of managing this. The Master's program was in a much less expensive city. My stipend for the two programs was actually the same, but I could live on it for the Master's program. I'm convinced that if I'd stayed put and done a PhD at the first school, I would have finished. The second school was more prestigious, but it just wasn't a good fit for nontraditional students (for instance, the main criterion for additional financial aid was how quickly you were progressing - with absolutely no regard for the fact that it's easier to progress if you're 22 years old and have rich parents and no dependents). The details of my situation may or may not have any relationship to yours, but I'd strongly advise trying to find out if there are other single parents in the program and talk to any if you can manage it. It's very possible that a less prestigious program in a cheaper city might work better for you than the one you have your eye on.
posted by FencingGal at 11:50 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by FencingGal at 11:50 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't think it's a de-facto bad idea to take out $15K in loans for three years (totaling $45K) to get a PhD. I do, however, think you need to know a lot more about how many students in your prospective cohort complete in three years, as well as how many drop out. Because you'll have that debt whether you have a PhD or not.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:58 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 11:58 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Part of the answer here, unfortunately, may be to look at different programs. For example the Harvard Health Policy Ph.D. program is part of the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, where the minimum stipend is approximately $33 thousand dollars a year.
posted by Jahaza at 12:21 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Jahaza at 12:21 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Having a car and supporting a dependent on your own pretty much rule out being able to live on a grad student stipend. Those of us who did it lived with multiple roommates, had no children, and/or were married so that they could combine stipends or live on stipend + salary.
If you could find another job with a comparable salary to your previous one, you will be much better off.
posted by deanc at 12:44 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you could find another job with a comparable salary to your previous one, you will be much better off.
posted by deanc at 12:44 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
I did my graduate studies in Europe and was lucky enough to have a fellowship which provided me with a very attractive wage, more than I would make in most other jobs with my humanities degree. And even then I generally tend to advice against going for a a PhD with the hope or even expectation of building a career on it. No doubt, there are huge differences between different fields and programs. But as has been said earlier, it is certainly not always the case that a PhD guarantees a steady and well-paying job after completion. Academic jobs, especially, are not only hard to come by but also more insecure and demanding than ever.
Working towards a PhD is a sacrifice, in many ways: of time, energy, sometimes even of your health. When you're also going to be sacrificing money and the quality of life that goes with it, you should have a very clear idea of what future prospects your hard-earned degree will offer you. So inform yourself as thoroughly as possible and make your decision based on these facts. Good luck!
posted by Desertshore at 2:17 PM on October 24, 2017
Working towards a PhD is a sacrifice, in many ways: of time, energy, sometimes even of your health. When you're also going to be sacrificing money and the quality of life that goes with it, you should have a very clear idea of what future prospects your hard-earned degree will offer you. So inform yourself as thoroughly as possible and make your decision based on these facts. Good luck!
posted by Desertshore at 2:17 PM on October 24, 2017
Grownups supporting a family basically don't do this without some form of financial support, whether it's savings, family, student loans, or most commonly a partner with a good job and lots of time to co-parent.
It's pretty easy to support yourself on 21K if you live a student lifestyle (and don't have complicating factors like health issues, etc). I lived very frugally but comfortably on much less than that during grad school. But that lifestyle is not really compatible at all with supporting dependents, even before paying for the food/clothes/etc that they need.
You also absolutely cannot work part time during a PhD, at least in science (not sure about health policy). Those regulations are there for a reason - you would not be able to finish the amount of work needed while working any reasonable hours at a part time job (my program had a limit of I think 6 hours a week of part-time work "allowed", which is about right for the amount of time you could spare if you didn't want to have hobbies or free time). Also, the few parents I knew in grad school really struggled with time management (more than the rest of us, which is saying something), and none of them were single parents, and none of them worked part time jobs.
A Master's degree is far more reasonably obtainable (much much shorter so you could plausibly save for a few years to do it, and/or do it part-time while working) and opens most of the same doors as a PhD (other than a few very specialized ones). Is there a reason you aren't going down that route? If you already have a Masters, are you absolutely certain that you need a PhD for the job you want, and that the new job would be worth the very large cost to you? If you're looking to become "more employable", a PhD can actually work against you, so I urge you to carefully do your research into the job market, talk to people in the field, etc, before deciding to go for it.
posted by randomnity at 2:58 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's pretty easy to support yourself on 21K if you live a student lifestyle (and don't have complicating factors like health issues, etc). I lived very frugally but comfortably on much less than that during grad school. But that lifestyle is not really compatible at all with supporting dependents, even before paying for the food/clothes/etc that they need.
You also absolutely cannot work part time during a PhD, at least in science (not sure about health policy). Those regulations are there for a reason - you would not be able to finish the amount of work needed while working any reasonable hours at a part time job (my program had a limit of I think 6 hours a week of part-time work "allowed", which is about right for the amount of time you could spare if you didn't want to have hobbies or free time). Also, the few parents I knew in grad school really struggled with time management (more than the rest of us, which is saying something), and none of them were single parents, and none of them worked part time jobs.
A Master's degree is far more reasonably obtainable (much much shorter so you could plausibly save for a few years to do it, and/or do it part-time while working) and opens most of the same doors as a PhD (other than a few very specialized ones). Is there a reason you aren't going down that route? If you already have a Masters, are you absolutely certain that you need a PhD for the job you want, and that the new job would be worth the very large cost to you? If you're looking to become "more employable", a PhD can actually work against you, so I urge you to carefully do your research into the job market, talk to people in the field, etc, before deciding to go for it.
posted by randomnity at 2:58 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Living in a lower cost of living town with good public education. A lot of places, rent is dirt cheap compared to Boston. Check out those other programs. I am a single parent in acedemia and I would never live in Boston because it's not possible for us. I didn't apply to anything on the East coast or in California. A lot of universities have graduate and family housing. My rent last year for a 2 bedroom was $600 a month.
And that's how you make it work. Also no flying vacations. Or a dish washer. Or nice new clothes. Or unnecessary car repairs. You get the picture, cut back for you dreams.
posted by Kalmya at 4:14 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
And that's how you make it work. Also no flying vacations. Or a dish washer. Or nice new clothes. Or unnecessary car repairs. You get the picture, cut back for you dreams.
posted by Kalmya at 4:14 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can pretty much confirm what everyone else is saying. I got through grad school living off my stipend with no debt by living in a big house with multiple roommates for the first several years, and then in a tiny 1-BR with my (employed in a regular full-time job) boyfriend for the last couple of years. No car, some financial support from my parents (they paid for my cell phone, travel back home, and some other incidentals). The only parents I knew in my program were married and their spouse had a regular full-time job. There were a couple of people who had nicer living situations, cars, etc. and had substantial family support from parents or other relatives who helped to finance their degree. No one was trying to support a family alone on their stipend. I mean, honestly, you are basically trying to take multiple years out of the workforce and get people to pay you to learn stuff -- it may suck for you, but it's not supposed to necessarily be a lucrative gig.
What I'm curious about with your situation is why you have your heart set on this program. Is it that you want to take some classes in health policy? You could audit some classes, or even sign up for some for credit part time. Is it research? You could potentially look for jobs that are at least research adjacent without a PhD -- a friend of mine worked for a biomedical lab with just her BA, and although she was not the one running the projects, really enjoyed the work and got a lot of the feeling of participating in real science. Keep in mind that a PhD is basically training to become an academic, which means you'd need to be willing to move literally anywhere in the country to get a job (not sure how feasible that is with your child/custody arrangements), if that even works out (the job market is not exactly amazing). Or if you're more interested in a job working in health policy, I would suggest that there are easier ways to do that than a PhD -- perhaps an accelerated 1-2 year MA program where you'd be doing it for a shorter period and could take out loans more realistically, or even starting in a more entry-level job in policy work and working your way up.
Finally, I can't quite tell from your post what your son's situation is. If it's the case that he is just going to be at home for 2-3 more years, why not just use that time to build up your application with part-time classes, volunteer experience, doing your own reading and coming up with a kickass proposal for your application, and apply to start school after you're not supporting someone else and can do the super low-budget/roommate/no car thing again?
posted by rainbowbrite at 4:16 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
What I'm curious about with your situation is why you have your heart set on this program. Is it that you want to take some classes in health policy? You could audit some classes, or even sign up for some for credit part time. Is it research? You could potentially look for jobs that are at least research adjacent without a PhD -- a friend of mine worked for a biomedical lab with just her BA, and although she was not the one running the projects, really enjoyed the work and got a lot of the feeling of participating in real science. Keep in mind that a PhD is basically training to become an academic, which means you'd need to be willing to move literally anywhere in the country to get a job (not sure how feasible that is with your child/custody arrangements), if that even works out (the job market is not exactly amazing). Or if you're more interested in a job working in health policy, I would suggest that there are easier ways to do that than a PhD -- perhaps an accelerated 1-2 year MA program where you'd be doing it for a shorter period and could take out loans more realistically, or even starting in a more entry-level job in policy work and working your way up.
Finally, I can't quite tell from your post what your son's situation is. If it's the case that he is just going to be at home for 2-3 more years, why not just use that time to build up your application with part-time classes, volunteer experience, doing your own reading and coming up with a kickass proposal for your application, and apply to start school after you're not supporting someone else and can do the super low-budget/roommate/no car thing again?
posted by rainbowbrite at 4:16 PM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Tenure track faculty member and parent here to echo what others have said.
While being a grad student may open doors for you like student family housing, subsidized on campus daycare, and cheaper health insurance (and you should look into these things immediately), without a doubt being a single parent and grad student would be very hard. Most grad student parents (including myself) I've known had either a fulltime non grad student spouse, family support, loan debt, or a combination of all of those.
My university allowed people to have up to 30k (a decade ago) in assistance. That started with TAships and then people would take out loans up to the rest.
Some people worked on the side or in the summers but this was highly discouraged and difficult.
Also, as a parent, you will have 0 control over your schedule for at least the first few years. Classes and TAing do not care that before school care only opens at 7:30am or that your kid is sick. Or if your advisor needs you to do something for them NOW. And trust me... People are very sensitive about any preferential treatment of anyone. If parents were cut breaks, mutiny would occur. (Although on a one on one basis I try to be as sensitive as possible to grad student family needs. I believe I may be exceptional though.)
I think it is far easier to be a grad student parent in the later grad years when there is less formal course work and more leverage in TA positions.
Also as others have said, the job prospects are so crappy. This might not even be worth it.
I wish I could be more enthusiastic. I wish the system was different.
I'm happy to chat with you though.
posted by k8t at 4:37 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
While being a grad student may open doors for you like student family housing, subsidized on campus daycare, and cheaper health insurance (and you should look into these things immediately), without a doubt being a single parent and grad student would be very hard. Most grad student parents (including myself) I've known had either a fulltime non grad student spouse, family support, loan debt, or a combination of all of those.
My university allowed people to have up to 30k (a decade ago) in assistance. That started with TAships and then people would take out loans up to the rest.
Some people worked on the side or in the summers but this was highly discouraged and difficult.
Also, as a parent, you will have 0 control over your schedule for at least the first few years. Classes and TAing do not care that before school care only opens at 7:30am or that your kid is sick. Or if your advisor needs you to do something for them NOW. And trust me... People are very sensitive about any preferential treatment of anyone. If parents were cut breaks, mutiny would occur. (Although on a one on one basis I try to be as sensitive as possible to grad student family needs. I believe I may be exceptional though.)
I think it is far easier to be a grad student parent in the later grad years when there is less formal course work and more leverage in TA positions.
Also as others have said, the job prospects are so crappy. This might not even be worth it.
I wish I could be more enthusiastic. I wish the system was different.
I'm happy to chat with you though.
posted by k8t at 4:37 PM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
I totally missed that your son is an adult. In that case he may not be eligible to live with you in family housing. And issues about daycare etc would not apply.
But yes, the money is really bad and assumes roommates, no health issues, and not saving for retirement. And then if you're one of the lucky few to get a job, the money is typically bad too.
I would not recommend departing the workforce for 5-7 years with these odds.
posted by k8t at 4:43 PM on October 24, 2017
But yes, the money is really bad and assumes roommates, no health issues, and not saving for retirement. And then if you're one of the lucky few to get a job, the money is typically bad too.
I would not recommend departing the workforce for 5-7 years with these odds.
posted by k8t at 4:43 PM on October 24, 2017
I cannot assist with the financial piece, and I am definitely not in a Ph.D. program, but unless you know a reason why a stellar GRE is absolutely critical for your particular discipline, my advice is not to let the GRE ever be an obstacle. Schedule it, study, and take it ASAP. I took the GRE 2 weeks after I decided to apply for my MLIS program and 3 weeks before my application was due. I took one free test online and was satisfied with my verbal results, so I focused almost all of my attention on math for the two weeks I had to study. My math score was Definitely Not Great and my writing score was lower than I expected but I am so glad I took the test when I did because everything was enough for my acceptance. Not waiting allowed me to keep the momentum behind this big decision going and focus on things like loans, recommendation letters, and my essays. I am so glad I didn't delay applying to spend months on that test.
Worth noting: I have always struggled with math, but I am an excellent test taker, so I know that helped my speedy, poorly planned approach succeed.
I think you could at least apply. You don't have to decide or even attend right away, but you'll have so many of the steps complete, clearing a path for you to work on the money part. Apply, then make an appointment with the financial aid office.
posted by juliplease at 6:33 PM on October 24, 2017
Worth noting: I have always struggled with math, but I am an excellent test taker, so I know that helped my speedy, poorly planned approach succeed.
I think you could at least apply. You don't have to decide or even attend right away, but you'll have so many of the steps complete, clearing a path for you to work on the money part. Apply, then make an appointment with the financial aid office.
posted by juliplease at 6:33 PM on October 24, 2017
I got a PhD as a single parent and took out student loans to supplement what I got from the university. If you go that route check out Public Service Loan Forgiveness. And be sure to talk to people at the university's financial aid office. If your son is unable to work he might be eligible for some sort of financial assistance like SSI. If he is currently receiving some sort of treatment there may be a social worker there who could help you determine what financial assistance is available.
posted by mareli at 6:27 AM on October 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mareli at 6:27 AM on October 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Public Service Loan Forgiveness is (like so much) in limbo right now. Even if it proceeds as planned for people who are currently repaying their loans, it sounds as though it's going to undergo significant changes that would apply to people beginning their degree programs in 2018 and beyond.
If PSLF is the only thing that makes graduate school sound feasible for you, I would not do it until we know more about what PSLF or its replacement is supposed to look like going forward.
posted by Anita Bath at 10:20 AM on October 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
If PSLF is the only thing that makes graduate school sound feasible for you, I would not do it until we know more about what PSLF or its replacement is supposed to look like going forward.
posted by Anita Bath at 10:20 AM on October 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
I strongly recommend against this.
First, the income loss is far more than you would expect, because grad student benefits are notoriously terrible (no 401k or FMLA AT ALL for example) and there are a lot of ancillary expenses like traveling to attend conferences (which always seem to be in expensive far-flung locations) and parking on campus ($120/month at my institution) that can add up to $10k a year. The 401k thing in particular aggravates me, since this could severely damage your overall lifetime financial stability. Sexual harassment and racial discrimination are rampant in these "jobs" too. By the time you're done with the program you could be a hundred thousand dollars behind where you would have been if you just kept the same job.
Second, there's a very high risk that you won't finish the program; for example if your advisor moves to a different institution, or if you have a health problem and need to take time off, or if you run into financial difficulties -- there is usually close to zero support for these kind of life situations that happen to everyone and are more common as you get older. At the school I went to close to 60% of incoming PhD students did not finish.
Third, the returns to completing the program are probably smaller than you think. There are very few situations where a PhD is truly required outside of teaching at top-tier institutions. The job market is truly abysmal in most fields and you might have to move across the country to take a $40k research assistant position in a small town with little social life or opportunities (and still no benefits). My work starts incoming PhD grads at the same level as the typical employees who are 2 years out of undergrad, even though getting the PhD often takes 6 years in our field.
Why do people do it? Because they want prestige, and don't have the cash on hand to do a JD, MD or MBA. But there are easier ways to achieve the same ends.
If you're truly passionate about the field, get an MS part time while working.
posted by miyabo at 7:28 AM on October 27, 2017
First, the income loss is far more than you would expect, because grad student benefits are notoriously terrible (no 401k or FMLA AT ALL for example) and there are a lot of ancillary expenses like traveling to attend conferences (which always seem to be in expensive far-flung locations) and parking on campus ($120/month at my institution) that can add up to $10k a year. The 401k thing in particular aggravates me, since this could severely damage your overall lifetime financial stability. Sexual harassment and racial discrimination are rampant in these "jobs" too. By the time you're done with the program you could be a hundred thousand dollars behind where you would have been if you just kept the same job.
Second, there's a very high risk that you won't finish the program; for example if your advisor moves to a different institution, or if you have a health problem and need to take time off, or if you run into financial difficulties -- there is usually close to zero support for these kind of life situations that happen to everyone and are more common as you get older. At the school I went to close to 60% of incoming PhD students did not finish.
Third, the returns to completing the program are probably smaller than you think. There are very few situations where a PhD is truly required outside of teaching at top-tier institutions. The job market is truly abysmal in most fields and you might have to move across the country to take a $40k research assistant position in a small town with little social life or opportunities (and still no benefits). My work starts incoming PhD grads at the same level as the typical employees who are 2 years out of undergrad, even though getting the PhD often takes 6 years in our field.
Why do people do it? Because they want prestige, and don't have the cash on hand to do a JD, MD or MBA. But there are easier ways to achieve the same ends.
If you're truly passionate about the field, get an MS part time while working.
posted by miyabo at 7:28 AM on October 27, 2017
(My own anecdote -- I was a PhD student for 4 years. I never finished because my mom got terminal cancer and I ran out of savings around the same time. I got a very good job right away just a few miles from campus, and in fact I'm now managing my work's multimillion-$ research grant program which puts me in daily contact with top people in our field. I'm sure I could have finished if I had the maturity, experience, and financial resources back then that I have now -- but lacking that I really shouldn't have even started the program.)
posted by miyabo at 7:40 AM on October 27, 2017
posted by miyabo at 7:40 AM on October 27, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
Many grad students I know supplement income with tutoring off the books; that may be an option for you.
posted by larthegreat at 10:47 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]