NO No No No No!!!
September 15, 2017 11:12 PM Subscribe
Please help me politely navigate a visit to my dad and his wife, where they are asking me to do something I don't want to do. Details follow.
My father remarried late in his life, I'll call his new wife Amy here. Amy is fine. She has been perfectly nice to me. She is intelligent, and and interesting to talk to. As a person, I like her quite a lot. She is however, massively controlling of my father. I mean really, seriously, controls his every move. And its not just him, she is really controlling of her friends as well. For example, my dad has a curfew when he has to be home and once when I wanted to sit on his front porch and have a glass of wine with him, he told me he couldn't because Amy was working in her office and couldn't join us and he couldn't do that without her.
I don't say anything about this though, because my dad and I aren't super close (he physically and emotionally (not sexually) abused us as kids), and in the past my dad has has been pretty blatant about deceiving and cheating on his wives and girlfriends (including Amy). I figure whatever weird controlling mess he's in, is his business to figure out.
I expect nothing from my Dad, but I do enjoy our occasional visits. The new wife does not let us visit without her being present, which is generally not too annoying because, like I say, I find her an interesting person who I usually enjoy hanging out with. The problem is that from the beginning, she has made it a BIG deal that she wants me to meet her daughter and son in law. I was OK with that but I didn't think there was any rush or anything. We are all adults, I'm not super close with my Dad, its not like we are "blending families" or anything. But the longer its taken to happen, the more insistent Amy and my dad have become. So strangely (to my mind) insistent, that now I've really got my back up about it and have been avoiding visiting when the daughter and son in law are in town. But now Amy's daughter and son in law have moved to the town Amy and my father live in and I'm going for a visit this month (in case this is relevant, I have other reasons to go to the town where my Dad lives, its not a visit just to see them. I don't stay with them when I visit).
I called to let my dad know I would be in town and asked to take my Dad and Amy out to dinner for my dad's birthday, giving them a choice of nights that I would be free. They ignored my request to take them to dinner saying instead that they want me to meet the daughter and son in law but don't know how the daughter and son in laws schedules will be for the week so they can't commit to a date yet. Further, they want me to go "see the daughter and son in law's new house to see what they've done with it."
I DO NOT want to do this. I can't exactly explain, even to myself, why I just really don't want this, but everything in me is totally opposed to it. For some reason it makes me feel a bit ill. Maybe its because of my history with my dad that I really want to keep him at arms length, or maybe its the sense that I've gotten that Amy needs to prove how wonderful her family is (I have no idea what she's heard about our family before she came along but the reality was that it was pretty awful). I've begun to get the feeling that she is dead set on showing me she is in control of everything now. Anyway, the whole situation just really creeps me out.
I don't want to have to forfeit my few visits with my dad so I feel like I need to be careful how I respond to this. if I make Amy mad, she can easily cut me off from ever seeing my Dad again. If I have to be I am reluctantly OK with the daughter and son in law going to dinner with us, though I didn't invite them originally and I'd rather not pay for their dinners, but I am NOT OK with going to their house and acting like, "oh isn't it great, we're gonna all be so close and family-like now."
Any thoughts on how best to keep this from becoming a big mess? How can I steer them away from the house visit?
Thanks.
My father remarried late in his life, I'll call his new wife Amy here. Amy is fine. She has been perfectly nice to me. She is intelligent, and and interesting to talk to. As a person, I like her quite a lot. She is however, massively controlling of my father. I mean really, seriously, controls his every move. And its not just him, she is really controlling of her friends as well. For example, my dad has a curfew when he has to be home and once when I wanted to sit on his front porch and have a glass of wine with him, he told me he couldn't because Amy was working in her office and couldn't join us and he couldn't do that without her.
I don't say anything about this though, because my dad and I aren't super close (he physically and emotionally (not sexually) abused us as kids), and in the past my dad has has been pretty blatant about deceiving and cheating on his wives and girlfriends (including Amy). I figure whatever weird controlling mess he's in, is his business to figure out.
I expect nothing from my Dad, but I do enjoy our occasional visits. The new wife does not let us visit without her being present, which is generally not too annoying because, like I say, I find her an interesting person who I usually enjoy hanging out with. The problem is that from the beginning, she has made it a BIG deal that she wants me to meet her daughter and son in law. I was OK with that but I didn't think there was any rush or anything. We are all adults, I'm not super close with my Dad, its not like we are "blending families" or anything. But the longer its taken to happen, the more insistent Amy and my dad have become. So strangely (to my mind) insistent, that now I've really got my back up about it and have been avoiding visiting when the daughter and son in law are in town. But now Amy's daughter and son in law have moved to the town Amy and my father live in and I'm going for a visit this month (in case this is relevant, I have other reasons to go to the town where my Dad lives, its not a visit just to see them. I don't stay with them when I visit).
I called to let my dad know I would be in town and asked to take my Dad and Amy out to dinner for my dad's birthday, giving them a choice of nights that I would be free. They ignored my request to take them to dinner saying instead that they want me to meet the daughter and son in law but don't know how the daughter and son in laws schedules will be for the week so they can't commit to a date yet. Further, they want me to go "see the daughter and son in law's new house to see what they've done with it."
I DO NOT want to do this. I can't exactly explain, even to myself, why I just really don't want this, but everything in me is totally opposed to it. For some reason it makes me feel a bit ill. Maybe its because of my history with my dad that I really want to keep him at arms length, or maybe its the sense that I've gotten that Amy needs to prove how wonderful her family is (I have no idea what she's heard about our family before she came along but the reality was that it was pretty awful). I've begun to get the feeling that she is dead set on showing me she is in control of everything now. Anyway, the whole situation just really creeps me out.
I don't want to have to forfeit my few visits with my dad so I feel like I need to be careful how I respond to this. if I make Amy mad, she can easily cut me off from ever seeing my Dad again. If I have to be I am reluctantly OK with the daughter and son in law going to dinner with us, though I didn't invite them originally and I'd rather not pay for their dinners, but I am NOT OK with going to their house and acting like, "oh isn't it great, we're gonna all be so close and family-like now."
Any thoughts on how best to keep this from becoming a big mess? How can I steer them away from the house visit?
Thanks.
What's your plan for when your dad gets old and needs professional care? For when he passes on?
If you're not involved in any of that, or want to avoid involvement, you've suddenly become busy and can't see them at all. If they are going to expect money or effort from you as your dad ages, come up with a strategy. Knowing the personalities involved might help.
IMHE, people who feel rejected by you get jealous and petty. You're right that this is not a real invitation, it's submitting to punishment because you have been aloof.
If you feel like you can't stay gracious in the face of a hard but subtle assault from Amy, make excuses! You have food poisoning! A migraine! I know you feel me here. But if you can stand it, just show up.
posted by jbenben at 11:32 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you're not involved in any of that, or want to avoid involvement, you've suddenly become busy and can't see them at all. If they are going to expect money or effort from you as your dad ages, come up with a strategy. Knowing the personalities involved might help.
IMHE, people who feel rejected by you get jealous and petty. You're right that this is not a real invitation, it's submitting to punishment because you have been aloof.
If you feel like you can't stay gracious in the face of a hard but subtle assault from Amy, make excuses! You have food poisoning! A migraine! I know you feel me here. But if you can stand it, just show up.
posted by jbenben at 11:32 PM on September 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pre -empty the whole thing and cut them off at the pass by saying you'd really like to catch up with father and stepmother, you understand they don't know her daughter's schedule but you have a jam packed week and you are only available on xx day. You've booked a restaurant at xx place for the whole family and while you hope that daughter etc can make it, if they can't you'll understand but you can't afford to leave a whole week wide open in the hope they can squeeze you in. We hope to see you at the restaurant! If you wait for your step mother to set the terms, you'll have to fall in line. Get in first.
posted by Jubey at 12:04 AM on September 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 12:04 AM on September 16, 2017 [51 favorites]
If they can't come up with a specific night, it sounds like they don't want to do it either. I am not sure about this, but I would consider calling the daughter, telling her you are so sorry you cannot make it out to their house, but wanted to introduce yourself at least by phone. Then tell her you are taking Dad and Amy out for dinner on xx date and if possible, you would love to have them join. My bet is she will not join and will be able to tell her mother that they checked off the we your new husband's daughter box.
I think there is a good chance that Amy controls them too and that they would love to get out of it if there is a socially acceptable easy way out.
Or, schedule a dinner with your Dad and Amy for say a Tuesday night and a meet and greet with Amy's family on a night AFTER the dinner. Then, the day of the meet and greet, something came up at work or you have the stomach flu.
posted by AugustWest at 12:20 AM on September 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
I think there is a good chance that Amy controls them too and that they would love to get out of it if there is a socially acceptable easy way out.
Or, schedule a dinner with your Dad and Amy for say a Tuesday night and a meet and greet with Amy's family on a night AFTER the dinner. Then, the day of the meet and greet, something came up at work or you have the stomach flu.
posted by AugustWest at 12:20 AM on September 16, 2017 [20 favorites]
Tell Amy you'll meet Daughter (she and her husband can join you, Amy and your father at that restaurant dinner), but only on one of the dates you've already told her you have open --- you won't be available on all of the days you'll be in their town, since you have (as you've previously told her) other things scheduled for other days, so no, it just won't be possible to keep your entire schedule open.
I understand pushing back when someone tries to shove you like this; unfortunately trying to out-stubborn Amy won't help. Just meet & greet and get it over with: nobody expects you to become best buddies or to be in constant communication in the future, and heck, maybe Daughter is as leery of meeting you as you are of meeting her!
posted by easily confused at 2:00 AM on September 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
I understand pushing back when someone tries to shove you like this; unfortunately trying to out-stubborn Amy won't help. Just meet & greet and get it over with: nobody expects you to become best buddies or to be in constant communication in the future, and heck, maybe Daughter is as leery of meeting you as you are of meeting her!
posted by easily confused at 2:00 AM on September 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
How can I steer them away from the house visit?
Offer to pay for their dinners. It's the least worst of all the options.
posted by heyjude at 3:25 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Offer to pay for their dinners. It's the least worst of all the options.
posted by heyjude at 3:25 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Agree with heyjude. Just include the daughter and son-in-law in your dinner invitation. If Maybe Amy's family are also interesting people to talk to, and you might end up having a nice (or at least not awful) time. Offering to treat puts you in control of the evening.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 5:57 AM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by SuperSquirrel at 5:57 AM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I feel like this is about the fact that Amy's controlling behavior seems to be spreading to you now. You're neutral about the fact that she's so controlling of your dad, but frankly her behavior as described here is borderline abusive or at least a big glaring red flag with sirens and a spotlight on it, and you know that. You rightly don't want to have to deal with it in your life, and you rightly sense that if you give in now, it's probably just the start of Amy trying to run parts of your life for you. She's trying to control you, and you don't want to be controlled or to have to constantly be fighting her—especially since you know that at least in matters concerning your dad, she'll definitely win and you may end up not being allowed to see him anymore.
I mean, that's what I think is going on here, anyway. I think that's why you've got your back up; you feel manipulated and controlled and you don't want any part of it. I don't blame you at all.
What to do about it is harder to say. Amy is obviously already the gatekeeper of access to your dad. Maybe he's totally fine with it or maybe not, but it sounds like her hold on him is complete enough that it would be easy for her to just not allow you to see him (or him to see you) if she thinks you're a threat or a problem. And right here and now, the only honest reason you can give for not wanting to meet her kids (which it sounds like you'd have been fine with if it didn't come with a big side of control and manipulation) is that you feel like she's trying to control you in the same inappropriate way as she controls other people in her life. It would be as nothing for her to paint that as you just being crazy, or for her to just say (or have your dad say) that if you aren't willing to meet your father's new family members, you aren't welcome.
On some level, the only power you have in this situation is the power to walk away. The game itself is being run by Amy, according to her rules. You can choose to play or not play, but that's about it. Meeting your dad is now a constant game to see how much control you will have to cede in order to do so, but you're only going to lose ground with each visit because that's how things are stacked. I wish I had a more positive answer for you, but I'm not seeing one. Folks above have some gambits you might employ to try and get your way in this case, but if Amy decides that you're a problem she can always just slam the door in your face and cut off your access. She has lots of options for making things difficult between you and your father (e.g. putting poison in his ear, painting you as disruptive and bad for their marriage) and will probably start exercising them soon if she isn't already. Your own options are very few, short of either waging all-out war to get your father to divorce her (almost certainly futile); submitting to her disingenuous, manipulative, controlling ways in order to preserve access to your father; or just walking away in disgust.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:05 AM on September 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
I mean, that's what I think is going on here, anyway. I think that's why you've got your back up; you feel manipulated and controlled and you don't want any part of it. I don't blame you at all.
What to do about it is harder to say. Amy is obviously already the gatekeeper of access to your dad. Maybe he's totally fine with it or maybe not, but it sounds like her hold on him is complete enough that it would be easy for her to just not allow you to see him (or him to see you) if she thinks you're a threat or a problem. And right here and now, the only honest reason you can give for not wanting to meet her kids (which it sounds like you'd have been fine with if it didn't come with a big side of control and manipulation) is that you feel like she's trying to control you in the same inappropriate way as she controls other people in her life. It would be as nothing for her to paint that as you just being crazy, or for her to just say (or have your dad say) that if you aren't willing to meet your father's new family members, you aren't welcome.
On some level, the only power you have in this situation is the power to walk away. The game itself is being run by Amy, according to her rules. You can choose to play or not play, but that's about it. Meeting your dad is now a constant game to see how much control you will have to cede in order to do so, but you're only going to lose ground with each visit because that's how things are stacked. I wish I had a more positive answer for you, but I'm not seeing one. Folks above have some gambits you might employ to try and get your way in this case, but if Amy decides that you're a problem she can always just slam the door in your face and cut off your access. She has lots of options for making things difficult between you and your father (e.g. putting poison in his ear, painting you as disruptive and bad for their marriage) and will probably start exercising them soon if she isn't already. Your own options are very few, short of either waging all-out war to get your father to divorce her (almost certainly futile); submitting to her disingenuous, manipulative, controlling ways in order to preserve access to your father; or just walking away in disgust.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:05 AM on September 16, 2017 [19 favorites]
I believe this situation feel so fraught because, while it seems like something else is going on, you are aware of the fact that Amy is attempting to remove your autonomy, and that she has already removed any relationship you had with your father independent of her. He can't see his child without her being present. That is completely crazy.
I can only say what I would do: I'd probably never go over there ever again. My relationship with my dad was similar to yours in terms of abuse and still talking to him in adulthood. I'd waffle between being mad at him for allowing another person to take over his life and being worried about him. I'd consider Amy's treatment of your father to be abuse. She is isolating him and controlling him. No matter what he's done in the past, he's still being abused by this person. I'd tell him that if he ever needs help changing his situation I will be there for him, but that I'm not going to have anything to do with Amy.
Otherwise, I'd offer a night when I was free to have dinner and nothing else. If Amy attempts to change those plans, just reiterate the night that you are free. If she refuses, then just say you're sorry that you'll miss them. Done.
And if you can. please let her know her attempt to control you is amusing with a laugh or something. Call her out on it. This kind of abuse relies on everyone pretending it isn't happening. Then someone new comes in like a ray of sunlight and states the obvious (about whatever disfunction is occurring) and those that are affected once again get to see that it is crazy, and maybe feel a tiny bit validated. (And possibly that glimpse of reality will help those affected to change their situation?)
posted by marimeko at 6:10 AM on September 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
I can only say what I would do: I'd probably never go over there ever again. My relationship with my dad was similar to yours in terms of abuse and still talking to him in adulthood. I'd waffle between being mad at him for allowing another person to take over his life and being worried about him. I'd consider Amy's treatment of your father to be abuse. She is isolating him and controlling him. No matter what he's done in the past, he's still being abused by this person. I'd tell him that if he ever needs help changing his situation I will be there for him, but that I'm not going to have anything to do with Amy.
Otherwise, I'd offer a night when I was free to have dinner and nothing else. If Amy attempts to change those plans, just reiterate the night that you are free. If she refuses, then just say you're sorry that you'll miss them. Done.
And if you can. please let her know her attempt to control you is amusing with a laugh or something. Call her out on it. This kind of abuse relies on everyone pretending it isn't happening. Then someone new comes in like a ray of sunlight and states the obvious (about whatever disfunction is occurring) and those that are affected once again get to see that it is crazy, and maybe feel a tiny bit validated. (And possibly that glimpse of reality will help those affected to change their situation?)
posted by marimeko at 6:10 AM on September 16, 2017 [24 favorites]
Honestly I'd probably talk to a therapist about how to deal with the overall situation - not just this particular visit.
posted by bunderful at 6:41 AM on September 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by bunderful at 6:41 AM on September 16, 2017 [9 favorites]
Agreeing with marimeko that Amy is abusing your dad. when I said above that it was borderline, I meant that I thought the specific examples you gave, taken alone, were borderline abusive. I should have said that when taken in context with what you describe as a comprehensive regime of control, it's abuse. That's what you are dealing with here, and that's how you need to be looking at this for it to make any sense. This is not a rational situation where adults can talk about things like nornal people. This is an abuser defending her power.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:42 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:42 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think the answers you're getting here are very good. I'd focus my replies on (a) that what you want is to take your dad out to dinner for his birthday and (b) that you will only have time to meet for a meal. Prioritising dinner with your father for his birthday is entirely reasonable, and if you invite the daughter and son-in-law to that, you've offered a polite compromise. If they can't make the invitation, you can say that it's a shame but you're sure you'll catch up at some point when you're back in town. Don't negotiate or offer any further compromise. It's take it or leave it for everyone. If Amy kicks off about it, then that's her problem.
You don't owe anyone an explanation for how you feel about the situation. You have a perfect right to want or not want anything at all in this situation.
posted by howfar at 6:44 AM on September 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
You don't owe anyone an explanation for how you feel about the situation. You have a perfect right to want or not want anything at all in this situation.
posted by howfar at 6:44 AM on September 16, 2017 [15 favorites]
You're in a war. As your father and Amy age--let alone if something serious happens, like they get in a car crash or give their money to that nice Nigerian Prince--you and the daughter will wind up intersecting. Better to get to know the players now rather than be forced to figure them out later under duress. Seize control by forcing the dinner event and skipping the house look-see.
PS Is it possible that Amy's controlling ways come from terrible insecurity? If so, that suggests other tactics.
posted by carmicha at 6:48 AM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
PS Is it possible that Amy's controlling ways come from terrible insecurity? If so, that suggests other tactics.
posted by carmicha at 6:48 AM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ugh. I'm sorry. This is so, so annoying.
The only good news here really is that you and your dad were never close and so there's not a ton to lose, even if Amy does decide to cut you off for not dancing to her tune.
Make the dinner reservation for the group including daughter and her guy. Tell your dad and Amy it's made and that you'll see them there for a birthday outing. If you can obtain the contact information of the daughter, then invite her directly. Do this because it's a power move and who knows, this woman may become an ally. In any case, she's a piece on the board, so may as well get it over with. If you can't invite her directly and must go through Amy, stress to Amy how very excited you are to meet her daughter. (I know it's annoying to pay for these strangers' meals; choose a modest place or a place with an early bird dinner or something.) If they refuse to commit, well, the reservation's made, and you can always call the whole thing off if they haven't gotten their head on straight by the day before. Walking away is an option you have.
When Amy asks about the house thing, just tell her this is all the visiting time you have, and you're so glad that daughter will be joining for dinner.
To be honest the long term outlook here is going to be determined by Amy, inside her own head, regardless of whether you subject yourself to nonsense like the house visit, so there's no need to subject yourself to foolishness. You can only control your own actions. But inviting the daughter to dinner will get you some information, and maybe, possibly, open another access point to your dad (ie Amy will possibly be more open to "whole family" events than she is to you+ your dad events.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:35 AM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
The only good news here really is that you and your dad were never close and so there's not a ton to lose, even if Amy does decide to cut you off for not dancing to her tune.
Make the dinner reservation for the group including daughter and her guy. Tell your dad and Amy it's made and that you'll see them there for a birthday outing. If you can obtain the contact information of the daughter, then invite her directly. Do this because it's a power move and who knows, this woman may become an ally. In any case, she's a piece on the board, so may as well get it over with. If you can't invite her directly and must go through Amy, stress to Amy how very excited you are to meet her daughter. (I know it's annoying to pay for these strangers' meals; choose a modest place or a place with an early bird dinner or something.) If they refuse to commit, well, the reservation's made, and you can always call the whole thing off if they haven't gotten their head on straight by the day before. Walking away is an option you have.
When Amy asks about the house thing, just tell her this is all the visiting time you have, and you're so glad that daughter will be joining for dinner.
To be honest the long term outlook here is going to be determined by Amy, inside her own head, regardless of whether you subject yourself to nonsense like the house visit, so there's no need to subject yourself to foolishness. You can only control your own actions. But inviting the daughter to dinner will get you some information, and maybe, possibly, open another access point to your dad (ie Amy will possibly be more open to "whole family" events than she is to you+ your dad events.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:35 AM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's bizarre that Amy is inviting you over to see someone else's house. If the daughter wanted you to visit, she would extend the invitation personally. This request by Amy would bother me because not only is Amy trying to control you, but she's also creating a very awkward situation where now the daughter is obligated to have you visit. As someone who values my personal space, I would be very unhappy if my parents invited a stranger to come and see my house. I think you have to put your foot down on this.
The daughter might be a good ally as others have pointed out, especially as your dad and Amy age. You may want to consider reaching out to her personally. There's no way to really know if she's like her mom, so I would take any conversations with her slowly until you know that she's not going to end up turning her mom against you (thereby making it more difficult to see your dad).
posted by parakeetdog at 8:56 AM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
The daughter might be a good ally as others have pointed out, especially as your dad and Amy age. You may want to consider reaching out to her personally. There's no way to really know if she's like her mom, so I would take any conversations with her slowly until you know that she's not going to end up turning her mom against you (thereby making it more difficult to see your dad).
posted by parakeetdog at 8:56 AM on September 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
Apparently the existing Mefi framing that there are "Ask" people and "Guess" people is incomplete, because there are also "INSIST!!!!!" people who skip past both asking and guessing. Or guess really poorly.
With my in-laws I don't like having my participation taken for granted. I like to be invited, to mull it over, and then decide if I want to change my plans to make time for an unexpected in-law event. The idea that you should hold open all your evening dates until these other people set the date is not at all reasonable.
posted by puddledork at 9:00 AM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
With my in-laws I don't like having my participation taken for granted. I like to be invited, to mull it over, and then decide if I want to change my plans to make time for an unexpected in-law event. The idea that you should hold open all your evening dates until these other people set the date is not at all reasonable.
posted by puddledork at 9:00 AM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
Compromise is probably the best advice here.
You're probably creeped out because she is CERTAINLY trying to control you. You feel for your dad somewhat and you don't like being controlled hence your apprehension. Totally and completely understandable.
"They don't have a set date yet? Okay. Let me know when they settle on open dates and I'll see if it fits into my schedule." You remain in control. If she wants you to block out an entire week and be at their beck and call just say something non-committal that keeps you in control, "Well, I'll see what I can do. Hopefully, our schedules will work out. Let me know about their available dates." Meanwhile, you see your dad on your terms.
Then she pushes it. She comes up with a set of dates. Pick one that completely fits your schedule. If one doesn't exist, "Well, I'm sorry Amy. That date won't work for me. How about [insert your own date]."
Then she wants you to see their place. Block out a time in which you have to leave. "Wow. I really like what you've done to the place. I'd love to stay longer but I have to crochet a cake now (or whatever)." And then get the hell out. You did your part. You compromised and stayed in control.
posted by Lord Fancy Pants at 9:07 AM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
You're probably creeped out because she is CERTAINLY trying to control you. You feel for your dad somewhat and you don't like being controlled hence your apprehension. Totally and completely understandable.
"They don't have a set date yet? Okay. Let me know when they settle on open dates and I'll see if it fits into my schedule." You remain in control. If she wants you to block out an entire week and be at their beck and call just say something non-committal that keeps you in control, "Well, I'll see what I can do. Hopefully, our schedules will work out. Let me know about their available dates." Meanwhile, you see your dad on your terms.
Then she pushes it. She comes up with a set of dates. Pick one that completely fits your schedule. If one doesn't exist, "Well, I'm sorry Amy. That date won't work for me. How about [insert your own date]."
Then she wants you to see their place. Block out a time in which you have to leave. "Wow. I really like what you've done to the place. I'd love to stay longer but I have to crochet a cake now (or whatever)." And then get the hell out. You did your part. You compromised and stayed in control.
posted by Lord Fancy Pants at 9:07 AM on September 16, 2017 [4 favorites]
The "oh hell no" feeling for me would be caused by her trying to control my time. This is about you and your father's birthday and she's insisting (not offering, or wishing, which would be okay and not enraging) that you make it about her family.
If at all possible, do only what you really want to do. It makes sense to meet her kids eventually as you say, but do it on your own terms. (Generally if two families are meeting, there's a party or holiday meal or dinner out or coffee that everyone's invited to, it's not tacked on like this. Kinda presumptuous.)
Lie if you must-- since she's not even giving you firm dates, how can you possibly clear your schedule of conflicts? You definitely have conflicts.
posted by kapers at 9:42 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
If at all possible, do only what you really want to do. It makes sense to meet her kids eventually as you say, but do it on your own terms. (Generally if two families are meeting, there's a party or holiday meal or dinner out or coffee that everyone's invited to, it's not tacked on like this. Kinda presumptuous.)
Lie if you must-- since she's not even giving you firm dates, how can you possibly clear your schedule of conflicts? You definitely have conflicts.
posted by kapers at 9:42 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Unless Amy has some sort of actual power over your father, like financial power or some kind of leverage over him, he is consenting to this relationship with her. If he's consenting, it's kind of kinky and I can see why you do not wish to be cast in their whatever as a supporting player.
What you need to decide is your long game. Do you care enough about this situation to try to change it, because at that point I would confront Amy about not letting you be alone with your father, and put firm feet down about how you will engage with him going forward. If you just want to defend your boundaries as they stand now, tell them that you're not ready to meet her children at this time and please respect your no on this. You'll be at X restaurant on Y day. Otherwise just tell them that the logistics don't seem to be working out for meeting up at all, maybe next time.
You can take advantage of this situation to just speak out loud to the power arrangement, just to point out the elephant. You don't get to tell them how to live, but you do get to decide what you will and won't do. "I understand this is how you do your relationship, but I'm not part of that." (Note that this elephant may be way bigger than you ever imagined and "Amy won't let me" may not even be true, if he's an abuser and manipulator. I don't know how much of this is you communicating with her directly or if she's ever told you that these are all her rules.)
posted by Lyn Never at 9:48 AM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
What you need to decide is your long game. Do you care enough about this situation to try to change it, because at that point I would confront Amy about not letting you be alone with your father, and put firm feet down about how you will engage with him going forward. If you just want to defend your boundaries as they stand now, tell them that you're not ready to meet her children at this time and please respect your no on this. You'll be at X restaurant on Y day. Otherwise just tell them that the logistics don't seem to be working out for meeting up at all, maybe next time.
You can take advantage of this situation to just speak out loud to the power arrangement, just to point out the elephant. You don't get to tell them how to live, but you do get to decide what you will and won't do. "I understand this is how you do your relationship, but I'm not part of that." (Note that this elephant may be way bigger than you ever imagined and "Amy won't let me" may not even be true, if he's an abuser and manipulator. I don't know how much of this is you communicating with her directly or if she's ever told you that these are all her rules.)
posted by Lyn Never at 9:48 AM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
These people are part of your father's family, even if you don't consider them part of yours.
You've aggravated the situation by avoiding them for as long as you have
Put on your big boy pants and meet these people for you father's sake.
If they think they are better than you, you aren't obligated to agree with them.
posted by grahahw at 10:23 AM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
You've aggravated the situation by avoiding them for as long as you have
Put on your big boy pants and meet these people for you father's sake.
If they think they are better than you, you aren't obligated to agree with them.
posted by grahahw at 10:23 AM on September 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
You've gotten really good advice from everyone else, with plenty of options to choose from. I'll just offer this, with the major caveat that it falls somewhere between Totally Legit Boundary Setting/Behavior Naming Tactic and Dick Move You Do Because You're Pissed:
"I'm sure you understand, but my schedule means I won't be able to make it to [daughter and son-in-law]'s house. I feel bad about that, because it clearly means so much to Amy for me to meet her family, and I know she has been sort of stressed about this for some time. I'm so sorry to disappoint her, and hope she won't be too upset."
What you're implying here, of course, is that Amy's controlling behavior is in fact something she lacks control over. If I know anything about control freaks (and I know everything about them), that will make her angry, but also complicate her inclination to react angrily to your refusal (because you've already predicted that she'll be upset). You've called out her weird obsession with the meeting, but also signaled your concern for her needs. You leave the door open to meet the family members at another time, on your terms.
I have gotten good results with abusers in the past by finding ways to frame their behavior as something that moves me to pity. If they think their abuse is making them look weak, they'll often dial it back. But even if they don't, they've had to hear their behavior named, and you've left a space open for empathy (even if you don't feel it sincerely in the moment).
Good luck! I think it's great that you're trying to maintain a healthy relationship with your dad.
posted by helpthebear at 10:46 AM on September 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
"I'm sure you understand, but my schedule means I won't be able to make it to [daughter and son-in-law]'s house. I feel bad about that, because it clearly means so much to Amy for me to meet her family, and I know she has been sort of stressed about this for some time. I'm so sorry to disappoint her, and hope she won't be too upset."
What you're implying here, of course, is that Amy's controlling behavior is in fact something she lacks control over. If I know anything about control freaks (and I know everything about them), that will make her angry, but also complicate her inclination to react angrily to your refusal (because you've already predicted that she'll be upset). You've called out her weird obsession with the meeting, but also signaled your concern for her needs. You leave the door open to meet the family members at another time, on your terms.
I have gotten good results with abusers in the past by finding ways to frame their behavior as something that moves me to pity. If they think their abuse is making them look weak, they'll often dial it back. But even if they don't, they've had to hear their behavior named, and you've left a space open for empathy (even if you don't feel it sincerely in the moment).
Good luck! I think it's great that you're trying to maintain a healthy relationship with your dad.
posted by helpthebear at 10:46 AM on September 16, 2017 [18 favorites]
Assuming you haven't ever been in direct contact with Amy's daughter: call Amy and ask for her number, saying that you definitely want to go see the house, you just don't know if it'll be possible given your schedule so you'd like to figure it out with the daughter directly, plus you feel like you really should say hi and have a chat with her after all this time!
Then you can, ideally, start to set up your relationship with the daughter on your own terms, which might make it less personally off-putting to you and let you get to know her a bit without Amy's mediation. (Hopefully it will turn out that she also finds her mother controlling and you can work together around her. If not, at least you'll have a better sense of her personality and what you're working with.)
If it helps, don't think about this as two-happy-families-united stuff but as getting to know the major characters playing a role in your father's life. It's research, if that's a useful way of framing it.
posted by trig at 11:04 AM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Then you can, ideally, start to set up your relationship with the daughter on your own terms, which might make it less personally off-putting to you and let you get to know her a bit without Amy's mediation. (Hopefully it will turn out that she also finds her mother controlling and you can work together around her. If not, at least you'll have a better sense of her personality and what you're working with.)
If it helps, don't think about this as two-happy-families-united stuff but as getting to know the major characters playing a role in your father's life. It's research, if that's a useful way of framing it.
posted by trig at 11:04 AM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I DO NOT want to do this. I can't exactly explain, even to myself, why I just really don't want this, but everything in me is totally opposed to it. For some reason it makes me feel a bit ill.
You don't want to do this because it's the only aspect of this situation you can possibly have any control over, short of cutting off contact with your father. But the problem with going to war with a control freak over control is that it's just that--going to war. It's just going to make her fight back and work harder to convince you and you will grow more and more resentful. As several people have pointed out, not being in contact with her family long term is unrealistic and not in your best interests.
Not fighting this is an option and one far more likely to end in a non-horrible outcome. Gray rock will probably be effective with Amy and your father and her kids. They probably won't like it because it is low drama but you will feel a lot better because it is low drama.
Don't get sucked into their drama. You are, now.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:27 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
You don't want to do this because it's the only aspect of this situation you can possibly have any control over, short of cutting off contact with your father. But the problem with going to war with a control freak over control is that it's just that--going to war. It's just going to make her fight back and work harder to convince you and you will grow more and more resentful. As several people have pointed out, not being in contact with her family long term is unrealistic and not in your best interests.
Not fighting this is an option and one far more likely to end in a non-horrible outcome. Gray rock will probably be effective with Amy and your father and her kids. They probably won't like it because it is low drama but you will feel a lot better because it is low drama.
Don't get sucked into their drama. You are, now.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:27 AM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
It seems like you have worse problems with your mom or she is dead and you have this shred of a dad to hang onto and he's clueless and maybe he always goes for the same type and she's just like your mom which is hard to realize and you are going to feel like you have no family if you cut his inept toxic self off. Amy is taking control and cutting you out of the will. It's going to be hers first.
A couple women who saw this over my shoulder made me write that. I got to use my own words but make no assumptions about my mom.
Whatever you think is irreplaceable by cutting that tie is not.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 12:36 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
A couple women who saw this over my shoulder made me write that. I got to use my own words but make no assumptions about my mom.
Whatever you think is irreplaceable by cutting that tie is not.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 12:36 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you want to keep up contact with your dad, follow the excellent advice above to pick a date (I'd choose the one most convenient for me) and a restaurant (I'd pick the one I like most and can afford the best) and book a table for four. Then let them know this is the only night that works for you but you'd really like to celebrate your dad's birthday. If you can get contact info for the daughter, invite her directly and make clear it's your treat. If the idea of visiting the daughter's house comes up, say you're sorry but you won't be able to make time for that this trip.
If they come, great. You can get the meeting over with on relatively neutral turf, where you control your exit. Who knows, you might end up liking the daughter more than you do Amy. If they don't, you can decide whether or not to invite other friends to join you at this place you like, or have a nice dinner by yourself.
I don't think you have anything to lose either way. Amy's behaviour is seriously weird--not wanting her husband to spend huge blocks of time or go on outings without her is bad enough, button "allowing" him to sit on his own porch with his own daughter when she's in the next room is an entirely different kettle of fish.Still, your dad is an adult and he's choosing to put up with this at the expense of his relationship with other family members, and that's out of your control.
posted by rpfields at 3:29 PM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
If they come, great. You can get the meeting over with on relatively neutral turf, where you control your exit. Who knows, you might end up liking the daughter more than you do Amy. If they don't, you can decide whether or not to invite other friends to join you at this place you like, or have a nice dinner by yourself.
I don't think you have anything to lose either way. Amy's behaviour is seriously weird--not wanting her husband to spend huge blocks of time or go on outings without her is bad enough, button "allowing" him to sit on his own porch with his own daughter when she's in the next room is an entirely different kettle of fish.Still, your dad is an adult and he's choosing to put up with this at the expense of his relationship with other family members, and that's out of your control.
posted by rpfields at 3:29 PM on September 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
She's playing the game of "force you to be the rude one" by pretending not to know what you want. I'd respond with something like "Eh, maybe some other time. For my dad's birthday, I had a small dinner in mind. What do you say?" Make them be the ones to say no, because then it's on them to say why.
You propose X.
They propose (or assume) Y.
You MUST ignore and/or brush off Y and keep proposing X until they say why that doesn't work for them.
You really, really want a small dinner with your dad for his birthday. Make it increasingly super-awkward and obvious that she for some reason DOES NOT WANT THAT to happen.
posted by ctmf at 3:41 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
You propose X.
They propose (or assume) Y.
You MUST ignore and/or brush off Y and keep proposing X until they say why that doesn't work for them.
You really, really want a small dinner with your dad for his birthday. Make it increasingly super-awkward and obvious that she for some reason DOES NOT WANT THAT to happen.
posted by ctmf at 3:41 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
until they say why that doesn't work for them.
Which they won't do. If you stick to your guns, they'll agree, and then cancel.
posted by ctmf at 3:45 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
Which they won't do. If you stick to your guns, they'll agree, and then cancel.
posted by ctmf at 3:45 PM on September 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know this dynamic from my father (similarly abusive behaviours, we are now estranged) and his later-in-life marriage. It is a process of witnessing a step mother wresting control over 'rogue agents' in your dad's life, painting any of his pre-marriage attachments as corrupt, detrimental or inferior to her own. When an injury to her Self doesn't really exist (eg, you haven't met her family, but otherwise are on cordial terms with Amy, have the level of intimacy with her that you're generally comfortable with, despite noting that she interferes with your relationship with your dad) she will manufacture one.
Currently the 'injury' she's manufactured is the one where you haven't met her family, and this *may* be about you, but is likely to be a baton she's using to beat your dad. How can her husband even call this a real marriage when his kid hasn't even met her kids?! What's he going to do about it, huh? See how your kid is killing our relationship with his/her Selfishness?! If your dad/her husband really cared, he'd step up and agree with her characterisation of you! It's the anxious attachment style of someone probably used to taking on challenging relationship cases and somehow, through sheer vigilance, securing the undiluted attachment of her spouse via imprisonment and isolation.
Some of this has happened because you're not even allowed to sit on his porch n have a yarn for half an hour. My step mother had a range of injuries she claimed on each of us four adult kids, each one had similar trajectories, and she persisted in earworming negs until dad was running in circles. I'd get told about apparently deal-breaking behaviours of myself, my sister, my brothers, all adults with our own lives, keeping our abusive father's influence in our lives to a very periodic, arms length distance. When she finally started earworming negs on my golden sister, most beloved of my father, she miscalculated her position, and went too far. She couldn't get past his resistance to her negging my sister, so the tantrums that ensued became ever more ridiculous, and more obviously observed as deranged.
The methodology of this type of person is to present control challenges to your dad, that he has to pass or fail. Usually in the form of some kind of weird triangulation deal. Here she wants to put you and her kin in a kind of competition (that you already sense, feeling shame about your family's background experiences) that she thinks her side will win.
If you don't want to meet the kids for whatever reason, don't. In my experience, my stepmother's four adult children and families didn't give that much of a shit, except that their mother was making a drama. We spent one Xmas lunch together during their whole marriage, it was what it was, benign enough, but also a reminder of my mother's absence and upsetting from that perspective. You could go meet these people, but odds are, there'll be another hurdle provided for your dad to jump, until finally he thinks it's just best if he gives up. Having complex feelings about my father as it was, the abandonment of my dad's good wishes for me, in favour of appeasing my stepmother was another part of my disappointment in him.
If you want to spend time with your dad one on one, you could keep asking for it. The ship might have sailed on the first opportunity you were given (porch incident and your dad's curfew) to explicitly 'other' that kind of relationship behaviour. It'd be great if you could have reflected back to him the shock of his having a wife who would forbid your and his relationship. 'Are you saying, dad, that Amy is forbidding us from associating without her being in charge of it? That's rather unfair, and it's hurtful since Amy seems to be treating me like a problem.' But if you're anything like me, weirdness like that is so much part of being the lobster in the ever-heating cauldron, that you never can quite outflank it in the moment.
You know, I'd offer one time to meet. If they can't come meet you, c'est la vie. Just don't go to their house, it's not up to your dad or his wife to invite you to their home, that's control, and bad boundaries. If they can't make it, you could reiterate that your dad could meet you without them. If he says no, reiterates the boundary conditions of his marriage, acts as if these are normal, you could say 'that's a shame, dad.' And don't offer to shift or accommodate the control.
posted by honey-barbara at 4:17 PM on September 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Currently the 'injury' she's manufactured is the one where you haven't met her family, and this *may* be about you, but is likely to be a baton she's using to beat your dad. How can her husband even call this a real marriage when his kid hasn't even met her kids?! What's he going to do about it, huh? See how your kid is killing our relationship with his/her Selfishness?! If your dad/her husband really cared, he'd step up and agree with her characterisation of you! It's the anxious attachment style of someone probably used to taking on challenging relationship cases and somehow, through sheer vigilance, securing the undiluted attachment of her spouse via imprisonment and isolation.
Some of this has happened because you're not even allowed to sit on his porch n have a yarn for half an hour. My step mother had a range of injuries she claimed on each of us four adult kids, each one had similar trajectories, and she persisted in earworming negs until dad was running in circles. I'd get told about apparently deal-breaking behaviours of myself, my sister, my brothers, all adults with our own lives, keeping our abusive father's influence in our lives to a very periodic, arms length distance. When she finally started earworming negs on my golden sister, most beloved of my father, she miscalculated her position, and went too far. She couldn't get past his resistance to her negging my sister, so the tantrums that ensued became ever more ridiculous, and more obviously observed as deranged.
The methodology of this type of person is to present control challenges to your dad, that he has to pass or fail. Usually in the form of some kind of weird triangulation deal. Here she wants to put you and her kin in a kind of competition (that you already sense, feeling shame about your family's background experiences) that she thinks her side will win.
If you don't want to meet the kids for whatever reason, don't. In my experience, my stepmother's four adult children and families didn't give that much of a shit, except that their mother was making a drama. We spent one Xmas lunch together during their whole marriage, it was what it was, benign enough, but also a reminder of my mother's absence and upsetting from that perspective. You could go meet these people, but odds are, there'll be another hurdle provided for your dad to jump, until finally he thinks it's just best if he gives up. Having complex feelings about my father as it was, the abandonment of my dad's good wishes for me, in favour of appeasing my stepmother was another part of my disappointment in him.
If you want to spend time with your dad one on one, you could keep asking for it. The ship might have sailed on the first opportunity you were given (porch incident and your dad's curfew) to explicitly 'other' that kind of relationship behaviour. It'd be great if you could have reflected back to him the shock of his having a wife who would forbid your and his relationship. 'Are you saying, dad, that Amy is forbidding us from associating without her being in charge of it? That's rather unfair, and it's hurtful since Amy seems to be treating me like a problem.' But if you're anything like me, weirdness like that is so much part of being the lobster in the ever-heating cauldron, that you never can quite outflank it in the moment.
You know, I'd offer one time to meet. If they can't come meet you, c'est la vie. Just don't go to their house, it's not up to your dad or his wife to invite you to their home, that's control, and bad boundaries. If they can't make it, you could reiterate that your dad could meet you without them. If he says no, reiterates the boundary conditions of his marriage, acts as if these are normal, you could say 'that's a shame, dad.' And don't offer to shift or accommodate the control.
posted by honey-barbara at 4:17 PM on September 16, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sure Amy's terrible, but you do know the reasoning behind her behavior -- your dad's been an abusive cheater ("in the past my dad has been pretty blatant about deceiving and cheating on his wives and girlfriends (including Amy)"). Now she goes everywhere with him, so he can't ever claim he's "off to see Progeny Anon," or anyone else, when he's finagling a tryst instead. No porch time, because that's an opening to one-on-one time with others, not just you. It is weird and controlling on the face of it, but in no way mysterious. (Other theories: turning down "porch chat, with a glass of wine" as he's drinking less, and didn't want to admit it; or, he thinks you ought to drink less, but didn't want to say that. More below.)
And your dad not only puts up with this dynamic, he enjoys it. Why volunteer that his wife was the reason he couldn't sit out on the porch with you? Why did you have to know that? Is he trying to manipulate you into thinking he's a victim? Or is he in agreement with Amy, and ensuring your tenuous relationship doesn't get the opportunity to deepen? (As ever, I'm with Lyn Never: there's probably some kinky aspect that you'll want no deeper intel on.) Re-affirm your perfectly-reasonable availability for that week, and stick to it. Amy's making meeting her family into a barn burner, don't help fan the flames; if you have to visit their house, drive by yourself, drop in with a coffee cake, and don't linger.
You paint your stepmother as a real Jekyll-and-Hyde figure. She's nice, interesting, and intelligent, but also your father's jailer:"if I make Amy mad, she can easily cut me off from ever seeing my Dad again." If your relationship with your father is this fragile, I'm surprised you haven't made a point of meeting your stepsister before now -- if Amy is this Machiavellian, don't you want to see the interplay between her kid and your dad? Does he enjoy unsupervised visits with that side of family? And you're a bit disingenuous here: "I didn't think there was any rush or anything... But the longer its taken to happen, the more insistent Amy and my dad have become." Dude, their ongoing insistence might've clued you in that it was important to them both. Your dad may honestly want the "blended families" scheme you're rejecting, especially now that his stepdaughter and his son-in-law are living in town. Assert your own boundaries, but stop assuming your dad is a passive player. Yes, he could be in an absolutely lousy situation, as described in the answers above this one... but he could be contentedly letting his wife play the heavy in his personal dealings. Seeing him around other people, like Amy's family, will help you figure it out.
Weird families gonna weird; it's maddening that's the one predictable thing. You have my admiration for fostering a connection with your dad as an adult, after your difficult childhood, as well as my sympathy because it's such a hard slog.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:47 PM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
And your dad not only puts up with this dynamic, he enjoys it. Why volunteer that his wife was the reason he couldn't sit out on the porch with you? Why did you have to know that? Is he trying to manipulate you into thinking he's a victim? Or is he in agreement with Amy, and ensuring your tenuous relationship doesn't get the opportunity to deepen? (As ever, I'm with Lyn Never: there's probably some kinky aspect that you'll want no deeper intel on.) Re-affirm your perfectly-reasonable availability for that week, and stick to it. Amy's making meeting her family into a barn burner, don't help fan the flames; if you have to visit their house, drive by yourself, drop in with a coffee cake, and don't linger.
You paint your stepmother as a real Jekyll-and-Hyde figure. She's nice, interesting, and intelligent, but also your father's jailer:"if I make Amy mad, she can easily cut me off from ever seeing my Dad again." If your relationship with your father is this fragile, I'm surprised you haven't made a point of meeting your stepsister before now -- if Amy is this Machiavellian, don't you want to see the interplay between her kid and your dad? Does he enjoy unsupervised visits with that side of family? And you're a bit disingenuous here: "I didn't think there was any rush or anything... But the longer its taken to happen, the more insistent Amy and my dad have become." Dude, their ongoing insistence might've clued you in that it was important to them both. Your dad may honestly want the "blended families" scheme you're rejecting, especially now that his stepdaughter and his son-in-law are living in town. Assert your own boundaries, but stop assuming your dad is a passive player. Yes, he could be in an absolutely lousy situation, as described in the answers above this one... but he could be contentedly letting his wife play the heavy in his personal dealings. Seeing him around other people, like Amy's family, will help you figure it out.
Weird families gonna weird; it's maddening that's the one predictable thing. You have my admiration for fostering a connection with your dad as an adult, after your difficult childhood, as well as my sympathy because it's such a hard slog.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:47 PM on September 16, 2017 [8 favorites]
Amy is taking control and cutting you out of the will. It's going to be hers first.
This was my read on it when I saw it as well. Amy doesn't want you to be alone with your dad because she doesn't want him making you promises, and she is pushing you to meet her child in the nice house they've fixed up - trying to make a subtle comparison of your relative stability for your dad to see.
posted by corb at 12:06 AM on September 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
This was my read on it when I saw it as well. Amy doesn't want you to be alone with your dad because she doesn't want him making you promises, and she is pushing you to meet her child in the nice house they've fixed up - trying to make a subtle comparison of your relative stability for your dad to see.
posted by corb at 12:06 AM on September 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Corb and I often seem to get the same intuitions and we are often right. She spooky good.
I watched my ex-wife go through this mess. Her mom died when she was little and dad could not be alone. Step mom beat her for not being a proper little girl while dad was at sea. Everyone in the family told me that they begged her dad not to marry that woman. He's not a bad person with bad intentions. Just weak and flawed.
Stepmom was afraid of me. I knew what she did and she knew I knew and I told my ex-wife's family everything I'd figured out. Died suddenly of badness.
We were in the most acrimonious custody fight ever and I see her number calling me and almost don't answer.
What the fuck are you calling me for? We have lawyers. Naomi is dead. You are an ass but I was the one person who knew everything and would get what that meant to her and she had the guts to call me. Where are you? Buy you a drink. Lots of drinks. I will absolutely celebrate this with you. I'd never been so happy that someone died. I was happy for my awful ex who I chose for bad reasons and we hung up the fight for a while and I got her dad to move down here and stay single because he has sucky taste.
But here's the catch. Ex went on to replicate her father's pattern. She married somebody who controls her and shuts her dad out and the whole game started anew. Now dad's adrift. What did he move here for? He gets to see his grandson only when I have him? Now everything is upside down.
You may not be able to win. Or you might and it won't feel like winning. I think I got the Booby prize here. You have to be emotionally self-sufficient and spread out from there.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:31 AM on September 17, 2017
I watched my ex-wife go through this mess. Her mom died when she was little and dad could not be alone. Step mom beat her for not being a proper little girl while dad was at sea. Everyone in the family told me that they begged her dad not to marry that woman. He's not a bad person with bad intentions. Just weak and flawed.
Stepmom was afraid of me. I knew what she did and she knew I knew and I told my ex-wife's family everything I'd figured out. Died suddenly of badness.
We were in the most acrimonious custody fight ever and I see her number calling me and almost don't answer.
What the fuck are you calling me for? We have lawyers. Naomi is dead. You are an ass but I was the one person who knew everything and would get what that meant to her and she had the guts to call me. Where are you? Buy you a drink. Lots of drinks. I will absolutely celebrate this with you. I'd never been so happy that someone died. I was happy for my awful ex who I chose for bad reasons and we hung up the fight for a while and I got her dad to move down here and stay single because he has sucky taste.
But here's the catch. Ex went on to replicate her father's pattern. She married somebody who controls her and shuts her dad out and the whole game started anew. Now dad's adrift. What did he move here for? He gets to see his grandson only when I have him? Now everything is upside down.
You may not be able to win. Or you might and it won't feel like winning. I think I got the Booby prize here. You have to be emotionally self-sufficient and spread out from there.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:31 AM on September 17, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
I would negotiate this via email and suggest something along the lines of:
Hi Dad and Amy!
Really looking forward to seeing you next month and finally meeting daughter and son-in-law! I could do coffee or a drink with daughter and son-in-law on Monday or Wednesday at Hotel ZOMG if they're available. Unfortunately, due to my work schedule it won't be possible for me to drive out to see their house on this trip. I'd really like to take the two of you to dinner just the two of us, my treat! I'm free on Tuesday or Thursday. I'd like to get our reservation for three made soon - could you let me know which day works for you for dinner?
Anon
posted by arnicae at 11:25 PM on September 15, 2017 [7 favorites]