How does one sonic attack?
August 26, 2017 10:21 PM Subscribe
After revelations that there has been some sort of sonic attack on embassy workers in Cuba causing brain damage and hearing loss - I have to say, what? Is this possible and how?
What sort of machine would they have used? Is it in the house? Outside? Is everyone within a mile impacted? How could it not be heard? How long would you need to be exposed? How do sonic waves cause brain damage?
So many questions - does anyone know? This is by far one of the weirdest things I've heard. Help!
What sort of machine would they have used? Is it in the house? Outside? Is everyone within a mile impacted? How could it not be heard? How long would you need to be exposed? How do sonic waves cause brain damage?
So many questions - does anyone know? This is by far one of the weirdest things I've heard. Help!
I have also seen speculation that this was poisoning, either deliberate or accidental. There are a number of drugs and chemicals that can cause ototoxicity.
A quick scan of the list of environmental toxins associated with ototoxicity reveals a few that can cause brain damage, but the reports I've heard specifically say "traumatic brain injury," which is something I associate with some sort of external concussive force. Then again, the US State Dept. has been cagey as hell about this attack, and the spokesperson isn't a doctor, so who knows what the nature of the brain injuries are.
It's a crazy thing, this incident.
posted by xyzzy at 10:50 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
A quick scan of the list of environmental toxins associated with ototoxicity reveals a few that can cause brain damage, but the reports I've heard specifically say "traumatic brain injury," which is something I associate with some sort of external concussive force. Then again, the US State Dept. has been cagey as hell about this attack, and the spokesperson isn't a doctor, so who knows what the nature of the brain injuries are.
It's a crazy thing, this incident.
posted by xyzzy at 10:50 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
How could it not be heard?
I'll just address this particular question. There are three types of sound: infrasound, which is lower in frequency than humans can hear; audible sound, which is in the frequency range than humans can hear; and ultrasound, which is higher in frequency than human can hear.
Any of these types of sound can damage your hearing. Infrasound would have to be extremely loud* to affect humans, and this would require a lot of subwoofers. It would affect anyone in a certain radius of those subwoofers. Audible sound can also hurt you, based on volume and length of exposure (think of construction sites, concerts, etc). Ultrasound, which is what bats use (for example), does not require a lot of equipment. It can be targeted, including through walls and some other manmade structures. Humans can't hear it which is what makes it so dangerous.
* But still inaudible to humans.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 3:10 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'll just address this particular question. There are three types of sound: infrasound, which is lower in frequency than humans can hear; audible sound, which is in the frequency range than humans can hear; and ultrasound, which is higher in frequency than human can hear.
Any of these types of sound can damage your hearing. Infrasound would have to be extremely loud* to affect humans, and this would require a lot of subwoofers. It would affect anyone in a certain radius of those subwoofers. Audible sound can also hurt you, based on volume and length of exposure (think of construction sites, concerts, etc). Ultrasound, which is what bats use (for example), does not require a lot of equipment. It can be targeted, including through walls and some other manmade structures. Humans can't hear it which is what makes it so dangerous.
* But still inaudible to humans.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 3:10 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some history: this kind of stuff has been going on for a long time, the Soviets bombarded US embassies with some kind of microwaves during the Cold War. It would not surprise me to find out that the US has used similar methods.
My father, a US Foreign Service Officer, was stationed in a Soviet Bloc US embassy in the early 1960s. Sometime in the late 1970s, when I was in my twenties, the State Department sent me a health questionnaire that was maybe a hundred pages long. It was the most detailed (and intrusive) health questionnaire I've ever seen. I threw it out, wish I had kept it.
posted by mareli at 4:51 AM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
My father, a US Foreign Service Officer, was stationed in a Soviet Bloc US embassy in the early 1960s. Sometime in the late 1970s, when I was in my twenties, the State Department sent me a health questionnaire that was maybe a hundred pages long. It was the most detailed (and intrusive) health questionnaire I've ever seen. I threw it out, wish I had kept it.
posted by mareli at 4:51 AM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's possible to use microwaves to record the vibration of window glass from a distance. It can be used to eavesdrop on conversations from outside a building. Perhaps it can also be done with ultrasound. At any rate, it's possible that the injuries were collateral damage from some technical attack with some other purpose.
posted by SemiSalt at 7:17 PM on August 27, 2017
posted by SemiSalt at 7:17 PM on August 27, 2017
How could it not be heard
In addition to the infrasound and ultrasound mentioned by schroedingersgirl, it is possible for sound to be focussed, this can allow sound at audible frequencies to be inaudible except close to the focus.
However in this case, ultrasound is by far the likeliest possibility.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:19 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
In addition to the infrasound and ultrasound mentioned by schroedingersgirl, it is possible for sound to be focussed, this can allow sound at audible frequencies to be inaudible except close to the focus.
However in this case, ultrasound is by far the likeliest possibility.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:19 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's no way that physical injuries were caused by sound by accident or as collateral to some sort of surveillance tech: In order to cause actual trauma to non-ear parts of the human body, that sound would have had to be AMAZINGLY HIGH ENERGY. Even old-school sonar is really loud, but I never heard about it actually giving people concussions.
Think about Ozzy Osbourne standing in front of his own speakers at his concerts, or people standing near fighter jets taking off... those are some of the highest-energy sonic events that typically happen in the world, and with ear protection you're impervious to the effects.
So if this is some new super-science sonic-wave thing, it's absolutely intended as a weapon and no way as some sort of detection or scanning technology.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 11:26 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Think about Ozzy Osbourne standing in front of his own speakers at his concerts, or people standing near fighter jets taking off... those are some of the highest-energy sonic events that typically happen in the world, and with ear protection you're impervious to the effects.
So if this is some new super-science sonic-wave thing, it's absolutely intended as a weapon and no way as some sort of detection or scanning technology.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 11:26 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Idea That Cuba Has A Secret "Sonic Weapon" Sounds Crazy To Experts. Detailed speculation from various experts, including specifically about infrasound and ultrasound. (And some other, um, less well motivated speculation.)
posted by Nelson at 11:33 AM on August 30, 2017
posted by Nelson at 11:33 AM on August 30, 2017
State Department reports new instance of American diplomats harmed in Cuba. New incident in August.
posted by Nelson at 9:46 AM on September 2, 2017
posted by Nelson at 9:46 AM on September 2, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
A Canadian diplomat was also affected, so it must've been botched surveillance, not a deliberate attack, because: "Nobody dislikes the Canadians!"
posted by foxjacket at 10:37 PM on August 26, 2017