Exactly what the hell is Paul Oakenfold doing?
January 20, 2006 3:47 AM Subscribe
Exactly what the hell is Paul Oakenfold doing?
I think that I understand the basic concepts of simple DJing—beat matching, crossfading, pitch bends and all those fun terms you can throw around. But DJing a party or wedding is going to be different than doing whatever Oakenfold does, right?
Basically, I'm asking what exactly he's doing to create his mixes. Take Another World or Tranceport or Live From Home @ Space In Ibiza. This obviously isn't just patching together several existing records, is it?
Where does he get his source sounds? I'm referring more to the back beat and effect loops he uses—I know I can look up on Amazon what the core tracks are that he uses, but he adds a lot over them... Drum machine? Synthesizer? Software packages?
How much of this can he do live? I know he spins live regularly (although not as much, presently) but is he able to stack layer upon layer of these after effects and cool loops that you hear pitching up and down and getting quicker in tempo and all of that? Or is all that done in the studio?
What sort of software and hardware is required to do this?
And finally, how does what he's doing compare to a (what I consider) original composer of techno/trance, like Darude or Aphex Twin (not quite techno, but lots of drum machine stuff). If he's mixing or remixing, and they're composing, what do *they* use?
A lot of questions, but I'm hoping some of you more experienced beat masters can help me at least understand what's actually happening. I've read this already, but still can't quite conceptualize of how something like Oakenfold's mixes are generated, especially if they're handled live.
Thanks in advance, natch.
I think that I understand the basic concepts of simple DJing—beat matching, crossfading, pitch bends and all those fun terms you can throw around. But DJing a party or wedding is going to be different than doing whatever Oakenfold does, right?
Basically, I'm asking what exactly he's doing to create his mixes. Take Another World or Tranceport or Live From Home @ Space In Ibiza. This obviously isn't just patching together several existing records, is it?
Where does he get his source sounds? I'm referring more to the back beat and effect loops he uses—I know I can look up on Amazon what the core tracks are that he uses, but he adds a lot over them... Drum machine? Synthesizer? Software packages?
How much of this can he do live? I know he spins live regularly (although not as much, presently) but is he able to stack layer upon layer of these after effects and cool loops that you hear pitching up and down and getting quicker in tempo and all of that? Or is all that done in the studio?
What sort of software and hardware is required to do this?
And finally, how does what he's doing compare to a (what I consider) original composer of techno/trance, like Darude or Aphex Twin (not quite techno, but lots of drum machine stuff). If he's mixing or remixing, and they're composing, what do *they* use?
A lot of questions, but I'm hoping some of you more experienced beat masters can help me at least understand what's actually happening. I've read this already, but still can't quite conceptualize of how something like Oakenfold's mixes are generated, especially if they're handled live.
Thanks in advance, natch.
I'm referring more to the back beat and effect loops he uses
I can't help with much else in the question, but I'd guess he uses drum machines (perhaps a couple classic Rolands like the 808 or 303 -- immortalize in Fatboy Slim's Everybody Needs a 303).
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:38 AM on January 20, 2006
I can't help with much else in the question, but I'd guess he uses drum machines (perhaps a couple classic Rolands like the 808 or 303 -- immortalize in Fatboy Slim's Everybody Needs a 303).
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:38 AM on January 20, 2006
More specifically to your questions - the sounds he uses are just loops from other records, or possibly sounds left over from his own studio recordings that he thinks will work well in a mix. Most of the software that I have highlighted above will allow for the pitch and / or tempo of dual-tracked sounds to be automatically adjusted in line with the underlying beat.
posted by bifter at 4:40 AM on January 20, 2006
posted by bifter at 4:40 AM on January 20, 2006
Also, there's some software floating around that simulates all the sounds of the classic drum machines and loop'ers like ReBirth and ReCycle.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:41 AM on January 20, 2006
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:41 AM on January 20, 2006
The Tb-303 is a bass synthesizer not a drum machine.
posted by dydecker at 4:47 AM on January 20, 2006
posted by dydecker at 4:47 AM on January 20, 2006
Best answer: I'm giggling at the idea of Oaky turning up for a gig in Ibiza or wherever with a bunch of 1980s Roland hardware, or even with a laptop running ancient software like Rebirth (unsupported and now freeware) and Recycle (not actually a performance application - it's a sound editor). As someone who DJ'ed internationally for quite a few years, I can tell you that 90% of gigs wouldn't offer you the opportunity to use a setup as complex as this. Also, big-time DJs like Oakenfold are famous for turning up at the last possible minute, and - where possible - cramming a few gigs into one night (for maximum earning potential).
I don't know the mixes in question, and I'm not a fan of Oakenfold's brand of "big room trance". But if I had to make a semi-educated guess, I would have said that he's probably using Live, like many many other "DJ"'s out there right now.
However, I found this interview from January 2005 :
What do you think of this move toward Ableton Live?
Do you mean DJing through a laptop?
Yeah. With a laptop or a controller.
I think we have to embrace technology, but I think that from the crowd’s point of view, they don’t really want to see a DJ playing on a laptop. A DJ could bounce back and say, “Well it’s all about the music.” Well, I think it’s a bit about both [music and performance]. There has to be a balance there and I’m sure from the crowd’s point of view they don’t necessarily want to see someone up there with a laptop in front of him. Who knows.
One thing is that you should almost never believe that a "live" DJ mix CD is actually 100% live. If it were, you'd hear the mistakes and inconsistencies. Even if it were just a slight flamming of the beat when one record went into another, you'd be able to detect it. If it really does sound like there's a consistent backbeat under everything, it's probably a mix that's been constructed in the studio, and augmented with extra sounds. Not that I'm doing down this technique, as it can take an incredible amount of work and patience to get it all working properly.
posted by coach_mcguirk at 5:18 AM on January 20, 2006
I don't know the mixes in question, and I'm not a fan of Oakenfold's brand of "big room trance". But if I had to make a semi-educated guess, I would have said that he's probably using Live, like many many other "DJ"'s out there right now.
However, I found this interview from January 2005 :
What do you think of this move toward Ableton Live?
Do you mean DJing through a laptop?
Yeah. With a laptop or a controller.
I think we have to embrace technology, but I think that from the crowd’s point of view, they don’t really want to see a DJ playing on a laptop. A DJ could bounce back and say, “Well it’s all about the music.” Well, I think it’s a bit about both [music and performance]. There has to be a balance there and I’m sure from the crowd’s point of view they don’t necessarily want to see someone up there with a laptop in front of him. Who knows.
One thing is that you should almost never believe that a "live" DJ mix CD is actually 100% live. If it were, you'd hear the mistakes and inconsistencies. Even if it were just a slight flamming of the beat when one record went into another, you'd be able to detect it. If it really does sound like there's a consistent backbeat under everything, it's probably a mix that's been constructed in the studio, and augmented with extra sounds. Not that I'm doing down this technique, as it can take an incredible amount of work and patience to get it all working properly.
posted by coach_mcguirk at 5:18 AM on January 20, 2006
I think we have to embrace technology, but I think that from the crowd’s point of view, they don’t really want to see a DJ playing on a laptop.
Personally I don't get this. What is the difference between using decks and a laptop? It's not easier as such, just a different skillset.
Laptops and cd mixers just open the door to more possibilities, enabling the 'dj' to add much more depth to a performance than beat mixing two tunes together.
posted by twistedonion at 6:46 AM on January 20, 2006
Personally I don't get this. What is the difference between using decks and a laptop? It's not easier as such, just a different skillset.
Laptops and cd mixers just open the door to more possibilities, enabling the 'dj' to add much more depth to a performance than beat mixing two tunes together.
posted by twistedonion at 6:46 AM on January 20, 2006
One thing is that you should almost never believe that a "live" DJ mix CD is actually 100% live
My classic example of a "real" live album is Derrick May's astonishing Mayday Mix. 32 tracks mixed seamlessly within 75 minutes. Well, almost seamlessly - you can hear several queue lag mistakes and beat mismatches, but only a very few. And May recovers incredibly quickly.
Actually, all the compilations in the Mix Up series are a positive education in tight, live mixing.
posted by meehawl at 6:49 AM on January 20, 2006
My classic example of a "real" live album is Derrick May's astonishing Mayday Mix. 32 tracks mixed seamlessly within 75 minutes. Well, almost seamlessly - you can hear several queue lag mistakes and beat mismatches, but only a very few. And May recovers incredibly quickly.
Actually, all the compilations in the Mix Up series are a positive education in tight, live mixing.
posted by meehawl at 6:49 AM on January 20, 2006
this may not be indicative of what Oakenfold is using, but I have a good friend from my studio days who has become a fairly prominent DJ -- not quite as mainstream as Oakenfold, but extremely well known in house circles and magazines -- and i can tell you what he does in the studio.
My friend, who shall remain nameless, uses a full-blown ProTools rig in an amazing studio full of mics, drums, old keyboards, a Rhodes, basses and guitars, and he makes nearly all of his samples himself from scratch, using very few samples from old records or other people's recordings. Aside from it sounding like house music in terms of beat, etc, it's produced and created almost exactly like every other kind of music in the studio.
I have no idea how he does it live, since I'm a traditional rock studio guy, but when he records it, it's pretty much a for reals studio recording experience with tons and tons of ProTools editing.
posted by JekPorkins at 8:45 AM on January 20, 2006
My friend, who shall remain nameless, uses a full-blown ProTools rig in an amazing studio full of mics, drums, old keyboards, a Rhodes, basses and guitars, and he makes nearly all of his samples himself from scratch, using very few samples from old records or other people's recordings. Aside from it sounding like house music in terms of beat, etc, it's produced and created almost exactly like every other kind of music in the studio.
I have no idea how he does it live, since I'm a traditional rock studio guy, but when he records it, it's pretty much a for reals studio recording experience with tons and tons of ProTools editing.
posted by JekPorkins at 8:45 AM on January 20, 2006
Last time I saw him (which was awhile back), it was all just vinyl and CDRs.
Bear in mind that a lot of different sounds can be achieved just by tweaking the effects on the mixers. Pioneer 500s (industry standard) have a nice selection of flanges, delays, etc. I've seen some pretty amazing remixing on the fly done this way. And of course, there are the pitch controls on the turntables and CD players too, and the technique of putting on two copies of the same track slightly out of phase for crossfading fun.
Just for giggles, when I teach people about DJing the first thing we usually cover is the "Oakenfold Jesus" outstretched hands pose, an important skill to master :)
posted by First Post at 9:15 AM on January 20, 2006
Bear in mind that a lot of different sounds can be achieved just by tweaking the effects on the mixers. Pioneer 500s (industry standard) have a nice selection of flanges, delays, etc. I've seen some pretty amazing remixing on the fly done this way. And of course, there are the pitch controls on the turntables and CD players too, and the technique of putting on two copies of the same track slightly out of phase for crossfading fun.
Just for giggles, when I teach people about DJing the first thing we usually cover is the "Oakenfold Jesus" outstretched hands pose, an important skill to master :)
posted by First Post at 9:15 AM on January 20, 2006
coach_mcguirk has it. There's no way in the world you'll see a professional DJ (other than a novelty act) turning up somewhere with ancient hardware and expect to be able to plug it in.
Scratch DJs have special records made up which just contain drum hits and other samples which they use to drop over other tracks. It would, however, be a looong stretch to describe Oakenfold as a scratch DJ. Or even as a competent DJ. The simple answer to your question is that those mixes you refer to aren't live, they're studio mixed. I often hear rumours that these aren't even done by the 'named' DJ - just some faceless minion. The longer answer is Ableton - there are a lot of DJs using it to mix and remix tracks live; Sasha did a lot of it last year. Quite successfully, I thought.
And those 'live' albums by your favorite rock band? Not live either.
posted by blag at 9:20 AM on January 20, 2006
Scratch DJs have special records made up which just contain drum hits and other samples which they use to drop over other tracks. It would, however, be a looong stretch to describe Oakenfold as a scratch DJ. Or even as a competent DJ. The simple answer to your question is that those mixes you refer to aren't live, they're studio mixed. I often hear rumours that these aren't even done by the 'named' DJ - just some faceless minion. The longer answer is Ableton - there are a lot of DJs using it to mix and remix tracks live; Sasha did a lot of it last year. Quite successfully, I thought.
And those 'live' albums by your favorite rock band? Not live either.
posted by blag at 9:20 AM on January 20, 2006
But yes, the "Oakenfold Jesus" is an essential skill. Do you go for the traditional pose, or the more advanced 12-inches-in-my-hands version?
posted by blag at 9:25 AM on January 20, 2006
posted by blag at 9:25 AM on January 20, 2006
Do you go for the traditional pose, or the more advanced 12-inches-in-my-hands version?
I prefer the traditional open palmed version, as if about to be pierced with glowsticks :)
posted by First Post at 9:53 AM on January 20, 2006
I prefer the traditional open palmed version, as if about to be pierced with glowsticks :)
posted by First Post at 9:53 AM on January 20, 2006
I have a famous DJ friend who is close to oakenfold's level, hes got a few albums, and has played with oakenfold, remixed oakenfold etc...
I had a chance to sit in the booth with him once when he was playing with tiesto (another great dj) and watch him do the set. Mostly it was all 12" dj skills, but he was using the Pioneer DJM-600 (I think) Mixer which has a built in sampler, he would take a few samples of a beat on the fly loop it and then mix into another record, or grab some random vinyl and find a cool audio effect sample that and play it live a few times on beat. Ive seen these mixers at a lot of clubs so its definitely something thats widespread in its use, and if you didnt know it was there you wouldnt know it was being used.
posted by skrike at 1:22 PM on January 20, 2006
I had a chance to sit in the booth with him once when he was playing with tiesto (another great dj) and watch him do the set. Mostly it was all 12" dj skills, but he was using the Pioneer DJM-600 (I think) Mixer which has a built in sampler, he would take a few samples of a beat on the fly loop it and then mix into another record, or grab some random vinyl and find a cool audio effect sample that and play it live a few times on beat. Ive seen these mixers at a lot of clubs so its definitely something thats widespread in its use, and if you didnt know it was there you wouldnt know it was being used.
posted by skrike at 1:22 PM on January 20, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
There are lots of tools and tricks that can be used anyway, and it's not out of the question that his commercial mix releases (or even live ones) are mixed electronically, using software like Traktor or Final Scratch. This allows a lot more flexibility in terms of looping sounds and beats and layering over the top of a two-track mix. It honestly isn't that hard for even amateurs to get amazing sounding results by these methods. For a couple of absolutely definitive studio-mixed sets, check out the Journeys by DJ Coldcut and Farley & Heller mixes if you can find them. Lots of studio software can be used to varying effect anyway - I've had good results just splicing mixes together using Soundforge, but Final Scratch and Traktor are more commonly used, as their interface is better designed for live mixing.
posted by bifter at 4:38 AM on January 20, 2006