Disproportion anger about conventional wisdom
July 10, 2017 10:43 AM Subscribe
I've found myself increasingly impatient and annoyed when friends give me conventional wisdom/ knee jerk responses. I don't fully understand this emotion, but want to get a grip before I scream at a friend.
What I am calling conventional wisdom are uniformly 1) well intended 2) not necessarily wrong, actually, and 3) from people who are super smart and plenty capable of independent thinking.
Here are some examples:
Ex. 1
Me: Yeah, so things are getting really stressful at work these days because...
Friend: Have you tried meditation? You must try meditation. (or: yoga, flax seeds, etc.)
Ex. 2
Me: I am traveling around [country] for two weeks after the conference for fun...
Friend: Oh! you must get in touch with my mom's dentist's second cousin!
or
Friend B: Oh! You must go to this restaurant and drink this wine that I read about!
or
Friend C: I didn't know they have beaches there. Why would you go to somewhere without a beach?
or
Friend D: I hear it's dangerous. Don't get ripped off.
Ex. 3
Me: So then my dad found out that he has a kidney disease...
Friend: Eat fewer carbs! or stop eating gluten! Maybe he needs to attend to his gut bacteria! All modern diseases are from these things!
... and so forth. I think a little bit of annoyance from feeling misunderstood is probably reasonable, but I'm experiencing a pretty intense, unbearable annoyance and I don't understand why. Any insights? I'd like to be able to process my emotional responses a little better, because I am worried that I'll explode onto the next well-meaning friend!
What I am calling conventional wisdom are uniformly 1) well intended 2) not necessarily wrong, actually, and 3) from people who are super smart and plenty capable of independent thinking.
Here are some examples:
Ex. 1
Me: Yeah, so things are getting really stressful at work these days because...
Friend: Have you tried meditation? You must try meditation. (or: yoga, flax seeds, etc.)
Ex. 2
Me: I am traveling around [country] for two weeks after the conference for fun...
Friend: Oh! you must get in touch with my mom's dentist's second cousin!
or
Friend B: Oh! You must go to this restaurant and drink this wine that I read about!
or
Friend C: I didn't know they have beaches there. Why would you go to somewhere without a beach?
or
Friend D: I hear it's dangerous. Don't get ripped off.
Ex. 3
Me: So then my dad found out that he has a kidney disease...
Friend: Eat fewer carbs! or stop eating gluten! Maybe he needs to attend to his gut bacteria! All modern diseases are from these things!
... and so forth. I think a little bit of annoyance from feeling misunderstood is probably reasonable, but I'm experiencing a pretty intense, unbearable annoyance and I don't understand why. Any insights? I'd like to be able to process my emotional responses a little better, because I am worried that I'll explode onto the next well-meaning friend!
I get similar irrationally-intense annoyance around well-meaning advice, and sometimes the "logic" behind it for me is "If this person is telling me X, they must think I haven't already thought of X — and X seems really obvious to me, so only a totally incompetent person wouldn't have thought of it, so basically they're calling me incompetent and getting away with it."
For me it was connected with a lot of self-critical thoughts about my own intelligence and character, and a tendency to beat myself up for not having the skill or willpower to immediately solve all my own problems. The fact that I saw myself as weak and inept made it a lot more plausible that other people were seeing me that way too.
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:55 AM on July 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
For me it was connected with a lot of self-critical thoughts about my own intelligence and character, and a tendency to beat myself up for not having the skill or willpower to immediately solve all my own problems. The fact that I saw myself as weak and inept made it a lot more plausible that other people were seeing me that way too.
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:55 AM on July 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
Is it specifically "conventional wisdom," or is it that people are responding to things that you don't think require their input? I'm that way - for instance, I just bought a car, and I deal with a low-level irritation every time anyone who asks if it's new then gives me their finest opinions on what I should have bought instead. The buying is done, it accomplishes nothing to tell me what I should have done instead.
For me, what helped was to understand that some people really need to feel like they're helping by making a contribution. They're saying "I'm listening, I'm interested / I care, and I'm communicating that by giving whatever input comes to mind." At least with the people in my life who do it, it comes from a genuine desire to be helpful, so I try to accept it as such.
posted by Kortney at 10:56 AM on July 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
For me, what helped was to understand that some people really need to feel like they're helping by making a contribution. They're saying "I'm listening, I'm interested / I care, and I'm communicating that by giving whatever input comes to mind." At least with the people in my life who do it, it comes from a genuine desire to be helpful, so I try to accept it as such.
posted by Kortney at 10:56 AM on July 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
Oh my god, this is my pet peeve. In example 1, I preface it with something like "I'm just venting, not looking for advice, but work is really stressful..."
Honestly I just stop venting to repeated offenders, though.
posted by AFABulous at 11:08 AM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Honestly I just stop venting to repeated offenders, though.
posted by AFABulous at 11:08 AM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I feel for you. This happens to me all the time: "I hate being single." "Have you tried dating sites?" Alas, the only thing that seems to work is not venting to people.
This question helps give some insight into how people can be more supportive and therefore making you want to kill them less.
posted by Melismata at 11:08 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
This question helps give some insight into how people can be more supportive and therefore making you want to kill them less.
posted by Melismata at 11:08 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think in some cases (such as the first example), you might be reacting to the fact that the person isn't listening to you, or at least isn't listening actively and empathetically. That's upsetting! It's OK to say "hold on, I just want to vent" or "ah no, hang on, I just want to tell you what's going on with me" or "hey, I need sympathy, not suggestions." Or, in fact, to decide that some people are not really worth talking to.
In other cases, people may be making inane comments because they've tried to train themselves to stop asking possibly invasive personal questions about possibly sensitive topics--when, in fact, you actually want them to have a dialogue with you. It may feel frustrating that they're giving you superficial responses instead of drawing you out. (So it might be good to say "I'm OK talking about this, so please ask me anything that pops into your mind and I'll just tell you if it's too personal.")
And other cases may need reframing as Kortney describes.
posted by wintersweet at 11:13 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
In other cases, people may be making inane comments because they've tried to train themselves to stop asking possibly invasive personal questions about possibly sensitive topics--when, in fact, you actually want them to have a dialogue with you. It may feel frustrating that they're giving you superficial responses instead of drawing you out. (So it might be good to say "I'm OK talking about this, so please ask me anything that pops into your mind and I'll just tell you if it's too personal.")
And other cases may need reframing as Kortney describes.
posted by wintersweet at 11:13 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I often find that when I'm in a situation with others where I have a very strong negative reaction to something relatively small it is because there is an unmet need there; something that is offered to the other person and they run in a different direction than I'd intended.
Perhaps with example 1 (the work stress), is there a need to feel validated? Or perhaps to commiserate? To feel competent and secure in your work? If so, it is understandable that your friend's response — which is geared toward self-help solutions — could be read as dismissive and disengaged on their part.
Example 2 (the 2-weeks of fun), is there a need for acknowledgement that you deserve a break? Or that you're a fun/adventurous/spontaneous person? Or capable and independent? Your friends responses sound like they're meeting the need for planning, a request for help.
It's frustrating when we feel like people who we care about don't 'get' us and need guidance. Sometimes they do actually need direction. When we understand what the motivations and unmet needs are behind the things we want to share, we can better steer our well-meaning friends onto the right paths. I hope that helps.
posted by iamkimiam at 11:15 AM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
Perhaps with example 1 (the work stress), is there a need to feel validated? Or perhaps to commiserate? To feel competent and secure in your work? If so, it is understandable that your friend's response — which is geared toward self-help solutions — could be read as dismissive and disengaged on their part.
Example 2 (the 2-weeks of fun), is there a need for acknowledgement that you deserve a break? Or that you're a fun/adventurous/spontaneous person? Or capable and independent? Your friends responses sound like they're meeting the need for planning, a request for help.
It's frustrating when we feel like people who we care about don't 'get' us and need guidance. Sometimes they do actually need direction. When we understand what the motivations and unmet needs are behind the things we want to share, we can better steer our well-meaning friends onto the right paths. I hope that helps.
posted by iamkimiam at 11:15 AM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]
I used to get super pissed when people did this to me. I felt like they were telling me they thought I was too stupid to think of solution(s) to my problem. No matter how kindly the advice was intended, I always felt insulted by it.
In reality, this was just a symptom of my then-unmanaged anxiety disorder. I was so anxious about being perceived as smart and mature etc. that I couldn't give people the benefit of the doubt. A couple of years ago I started taking medication for my anxiety and seeing a therapist regularly, and things changed dramatically for me.
I do sometimes feel a moment of "Really, you think I haven't thought of that?!" when I get this kind of advice, but it fades fast. Now I'm generally able to appreciate that these people are trying to help in the best way they can, and certainly mean no offense. I can usually say, "Huh, good idea, I'll look into it!" or "Yeah, I thought that would work, but [reason(s) why it didn't]."
So my advice is that even though this might not feel like anxiety, it could very well be, and you should consider seeing a mental health professional.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 11:20 AM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
In reality, this was just a symptom of my then-unmanaged anxiety disorder. I was so anxious about being perceived as smart and mature etc. that I couldn't give people the benefit of the doubt. A couple of years ago I started taking medication for my anxiety and seeing a therapist regularly, and things changed dramatically for me.
I do sometimes feel a moment of "Really, you think I haven't thought of that?!" when I get this kind of advice, but it fades fast. Now I'm generally able to appreciate that these people are trying to help in the best way they can, and certainly mean no offense. I can usually say, "Huh, good idea, I'll look into it!" or "Yeah, I thought that would work, but [reason(s) why it didn't]."
So my advice is that even though this might not feel like anxiety, it could very well be, and you should consider seeing a mental health professional.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 11:20 AM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
This piece was just posted in this FPP and includes a section on this issue (shortened here):
Also, having a regular appointment with a therapist is a great way to get emotional support that you aren't finding in your present interpersonal relationships. This may help with the anger response (you can still be angry that your friends don't/can't provide the emotional support you need right now, but you don't have to experience that anger in the way you're experiencing it now).
posted by melissasaurus at 11:40 AM on July 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
There’s an epidemic of fixing in many interpersonal relationships. When one person seeks support from another, often the first thing they’re offered is unsolicited advice about what strategy they should use in their career, how they should handle that asshole on the internet, or what they should be doing differently in their activism. It’s all about fixing rather than holding space...So, take comfort in the fact that this is a widespread cultural issue, not an issue with your specific friends. I find prefacing conversations with "I just need to vent" can help. Or responding to the suggested solution with something like "Thanks, I'll think about that. I mostly just need emotional support right now." Make an extra effort to provide empathy/emotional space rather than conventional wisdom for your friends too.
We’re taught that our value to others is in giving good advice – we’re not taught empathy. Advice can be valuable, but in my experience, what people most want from their interpersonal relationships is to be seen, to be heard, and to feel connected. Unsolicited advice does not accomplish any of those things and can work toward the contrary.
In my close relationships, we’ve gotten in the habit of asking the question, “Are you looking for empathy or advice?” This question is gold. It gives the person seeking support choice. It lets them feel power when they might otherwise feel disempowered by whatever shit situation is bringing up challenging feels for them.
Also, having a regular appointment with a therapist is a great way to get emotional support that you aren't finding in your present interpersonal relationships. This may help with the anger response (you can still be angry that your friends don't/can't provide the emotional support you need right now, but you don't have to experience that anger in the way you're experiencing it now).
posted by melissasaurus at 11:40 AM on July 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
It sounds like these people are just being social, and chiming in with what occurs to them, what they've recently been thinking about, or recently learned about, or what they like/don't like, and trying to extrapolate/express based on what you're telling them, etc. Typical social behavior. When that kind of thing annoys me, it's usually because I myself am feeling like an insufferable know-it-all, and am so sure I know better than everyone, and that everything is obvious, and everyone else is being so prosaic and stupid for ever even daring to open their mouths. It's never coming from a defensible place in my case. That's my perspective at least.
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 11:41 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 11:41 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Example 1: is annoying because a) Friend is cutting you off and not letting you finish, and b) offering you unsolicited advice, which is also annoying.
Example 2: Friend is imposing unrealistic expectations of how you will spend your limited time on the trip, and expectations are specific enough that they aren’t just making small talk.
Friend B: just wants to talk about wine, and in fact is probably just trying to make small talk and advance the conversation.
Friend C: is putting you down.
Friend D: may actually have a warning worth listening to, so you might just take what you need from this (also unsolicited advice) and leave the rest. Or perhaps they are just raining on your parade.
Example 3: as per Example 1, only worse because you are trying to talk about something that is grievous and Friend is stomping on your feelings with his dirty great hairy foot.
I mean, unsolicited advice, put-downs, and negativity are considered rude because they are consistently likely to cause irritation or even emotional distress. So as you recognize, it’s not the annoyance itself that’s the problem, it’s the intensity.
I don’t know *why* all this is so *extremely* annoying to you, but - does this happen practically *every* time you try to talk to a friend? Is there *no-one* in your life who will actually listen to you and make an effort to understand and help where possible? Because if not, I reckon that’s your problem. Too many Job’s Comforters and not enough true and empathetic friends.
If OTOH you do have good friends who listen, and the Job’s Comforters are just passing people in your life, well… have you tried meditation… Just kidding, only not. Trying to control your feelings is only going to intensify them, whereas meditation is something that could help you to just have those feelings and watch them float by like leaves on a river.
posted by tel3path at 11:46 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Example 2: Friend is imposing unrealistic expectations of how you will spend your limited time on the trip, and expectations are specific enough that they aren’t just making small talk.
Friend B: just wants to talk about wine, and in fact is probably just trying to make small talk and advance the conversation.
Friend C: is putting you down.
Friend D: may actually have a warning worth listening to, so you might just take what you need from this (also unsolicited advice) and leave the rest. Or perhaps they are just raining on your parade.
Example 3: as per Example 1, only worse because you are trying to talk about something that is grievous and Friend is stomping on your feelings with his dirty great hairy foot.
I mean, unsolicited advice, put-downs, and negativity are considered rude because they are consistently likely to cause irritation or even emotional distress. So as you recognize, it’s not the annoyance itself that’s the problem, it’s the intensity.
I don’t know *why* all this is so *extremely* annoying to you, but - does this happen practically *every* time you try to talk to a friend? Is there *no-one* in your life who will actually listen to you and make an effort to understand and help where possible? Because if not, I reckon that’s your problem. Too many Job’s Comforters and not enough true and empathetic friends.
If OTOH you do have good friends who listen, and the Job’s Comforters are just passing people in your life, well… have you tried meditation… Just kidding, only not. Trying to control your feelings is only going to intensify them, whereas meditation is something that could help you to just have those feelings and watch them float by like leaves on a river.
posted by tel3path at 11:46 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
You wrote that the unsolicited advice you're getting is "not necessarily wrong", but in Example 3 at least, your description suggests that part of what makes the advice annoying is that it is wrong or at the very least unhelpful. If I were in your position, I would probably feel both irritated at having to either argue or bottle up my disagreement and slightly hurt at the implication that if I rejected the advice (openly or not), then someone holding my friend's belief could conclude that I was culpable for failing to solve my own problems. However, this is just how I'd feel -- in reality, it's unlikely that your friends, if they are indeed friends, are thinking that about you. Maybe keeping that in mind might help?
posted by aws17576 at 12:29 PM on July 10, 2017
posted by aws17576 at 12:29 PM on July 10, 2017
It's annoying because it's bullshit. Have you ever read "On Bullshit" by Harry Frankfurter? You should. The basic gist is that bullshit is something the speaker doesn't care whether it's true or false. In your examples, your interlocutors clearly don't care whether you should meditate, or drink a certain wine, or stop eating gluten. They just want to make a contribution to the conversation that makes them seem like they understand the topic. (This is what you mean by "not necessarily wrong"; the advice may be correct, but it doesn't matter to your acquaintance if it is or not.) In contemporary upper-middle-class educated society, there is no social faux pas worse than not understanding something, because if you don't understand, are you really an intellectual? Presumably what you'd like (at least what I'd like - I have the same problem) is for my interlocutors to just listen to me and let me tell my story without interruption, and then to return the favor.
Example 1: "I'm really stressed..." "Why, what's wrong?" Example 2: "I'm going to [country]." "Oh I've heard that's nice. What made you decide to go there?" Example 3: "My dad found out..." "I'm sorry to hear that. What's his prognosis?"
In all three cases, the listener doesn't interject an opinion into the conversation. He asks questions that invite you, the speaker, to go into more detail about your topic. That's what a person with good social skills would do. Instead, your friends are saying, in effect, "I know as much as or more about this than you do, so just stop talking". Especially when the subject is your own thoughts or experiences, that's tremendously frustrating. You're right to be irritated.
(Says the guy who just posted a snarky, know-it-all comment on the blue.)
posted by kevinbelt at 12:50 PM on July 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
Example 1: "I'm really stressed..." "Why, what's wrong?" Example 2: "I'm going to [country]." "Oh I've heard that's nice. What made you decide to go there?" Example 3: "My dad found out..." "I'm sorry to hear that. What's his prognosis?"
In all three cases, the listener doesn't interject an opinion into the conversation. He asks questions that invite you, the speaker, to go into more detail about your topic. That's what a person with good social skills would do. Instead, your friends are saying, in effect, "I know as much as or more about this than you do, so just stop talking". Especially when the subject is your own thoughts or experiences, that's tremendously frustrating. You're right to be irritated.
(Says the guy who just posted a snarky, know-it-all comment on the blue.)
posted by kevinbelt at 12:50 PM on July 10, 2017 [24 favorites]
I deal with this a lot and I think it bothers me for two reasons:
1) Exactly what nebulawindphone said re: having a lot of emotional investment in being ~*intelligent*~ and ~*self-sufficient*~ so when people give surface-level advice it feels like they think I wouldn't have thought of it already.
2) It also feels like the friend isn't engaging with the conversation on a personal level, because the advice they're giving could apply to basically anybody who said a certain set of words, rather than being something specific that applies to our relationship. It bothers me a lot less if people are like "I know you're not super into [X] but I've tried/heard good things on [variant on X] that sound promising, have you thought of giving that a shot?" rather than "Try [X]! It's great!"
As a general fix, I basically try to remember that they mean well, and that it's nice that my friends at least want to help me, and I don't know what else is going on in their lives that might make them not as engaged as I would in an ideal world like them to be. Everyone is fighting their own hardest battle, etc.
posted by Phire at 1:04 PM on July 10, 2017
1) Exactly what nebulawindphone said re: having a lot of emotional investment in being ~*intelligent*~ and ~*self-sufficient*~ so when people give surface-level advice it feels like they think I wouldn't have thought of it already.
2) It also feels like the friend isn't engaging with the conversation on a personal level, because the advice they're giving could apply to basically anybody who said a certain set of words, rather than being something specific that applies to our relationship. It bothers me a lot less if people are like "I know you're not super into [X] but I've tried/heard good things on [variant on X] that sound promising, have you thought of giving that a shot?" rather than "Try [X]! It's great!"
As a general fix, I basically try to remember that they mean well, and that it's nice that my friends at least want to help me, and I don't know what else is going on in their lives that might make them not as engaged as I would in an ideal world like them to be. Everyone is fighting their own hardest battle, etc.
posted by Phire at 1:04 PM on July 10, 2017
Right there with you, OP. Right there with you.
There's a lot of layers to it and others have addressed many of them. Another one that I personally feel is, that I... just want to be heard, you know? If I'm speaking with a friend I want to say my truth and I want it to be heard. And if I'm cut off with advice I didn't ask for or other irrelevancies, then that's the end of me being heard. Now I have lost my opportunity to be heard, and instead am now required to address someone's gluten theories or whatever.
Now the urge to make these suggestions/interruptions comes from a few places. Some are well-meaning (e.g. listener is saddened to hear of friend's pain, wants to help, makes only suggestion that comes to mind, although they know that really their friend must have this general info already. The underlying message here is "I wish I could help.") And some are just thoughtless -- listener doesn't really like listening, prefers talking and expressing own opinions. (The underlying message here is "I don't care that much, would rather be talking.") And there are times when these come in combinations. You can get 80% "earnestly trying to help"/20% "unable to stfu", for example.
Anyway, I guess my advice is try to listen for the part where someone's trying to be helpful and if it's there, address it - "I know you want to help, that's so sweet, but trust me, this isn't about gluten, I don't need advice right now, just a shoulder to cry on." And for the rest of it, hear it for what it is: "I'm not a useful listener for you right now."
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's a lot of layers to it and others have addressed many of them. Another one that I personally feel is, that I... just want to be heard, you know? If I'm speaking with a friend I want to say my truth and I want it to be heard. And if I'm cut off with advice I didn't ask for or other irrelevancies, then that's the end of me being heard. Now I have lost my opportunity to be heard, and instead am now required to address someone's gluten theories or whatever.
Now the urge to make these suggestions/interruptions comes from a few places. Some are well-meaning (e.g. listener is saddened to hear of friend's pain, wants to help, makes only suggestion that comes to mind, although they know that really their friend must have this general info already. The underlying message here is "I wish I could help.") And some are just thoughtless -- listener doesn't really like listening, prefers talking and expressing own opinions. (The underlying message here is "I don't care that much, would rather be talking.") And there are times when these come in combinations. You can get 80% "earnestly trying to help"/20% "unable to stfu", for example.
Anyway, I guess my advice is try to listen for the part where someone's trying to be helpful and if it's there, address it - "I know you want to help, that's so sweet, but trust me, this isn't about gluten, I don't need advice right now, just a shoulder to cry on." And for the rest of it, hear it for what it is: "I'm not a useful listener for you right now."
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is it possible that it's setting you off because you're feeling pressure to pretend the boilerplate advice solved your problem? I've run into trouble where I've had a problem, gotten "have you tried cutting out gluten" type advice, and have engaged with it by trying to explain thoughtfully why whatever the advice was wouldn't work for me. And then suddenly I've found myself apologizing for having been rude and dismissive about the advice, and being told that if I'm going to be like that I'm clearly not even trying to fix the problem.
In my case, it's perfectly possible that I was being rude, I'm like that, but on both of the occasions where this happened recently I hadn't meant to be rude, hadn't perceived the interaction as conflicty at all to begin with, and was taken aback from the transition from my being the one with the original problem, to my having hurt the attempted advisor's feelings.
If you're more sensitive than I am, and can see this sort of failure mode coming before you actually screw up and piss people off, I could see being irritated about having to pretend that you're going to take useless advice so as not to offend people.
posted by LizardBreath at 2:38 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
In my case, it's perfectly possible that I was being rude, I'm like that, but on both of the occasions where this happened recently I hadn't meant to be rude, hadn't perceived the interaction as conflicty at all to begin with, and was taken aback from the transition from my being the one with the original problem, to my having hurt the attempted advisor's feelings.
If you're more sensitive than I am, and can see this sort of failure mode coming before you actually screw up and piss people off, I could see being irritated about having to pretend that you're going to take useless advice so as not to offend people.
posted by LizardBreath at 2:38 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
When people do this, they are often trying to make a connection. Maybe sometimes they're being know-it-alls, they really want to fix things, or the connection is inane. It sounds like severe irritability. That's a sign of stress and can be a sign of depression. People are irritating. It's a good thing it's illegal to kill them or there would be days ...
This is a chance to work on asking for what you need. I'm all set with travel plans. I'm pretty excited, can I tell you about them? or Can I just take a minute to unload? It's been a difficult day and I'd love a chance to decompress. And you need a to address the fierce stress you're feeling. Exercise and nature are known to help, and your therapist can help even more. Good luck.
posted by theora55 at 4:10 PM on July 10, 2017
This is a chance to work on asking for what you need. I'm all set with travel plans. I'm pretty excited, can I tell you about them? or Can I just take a minute to unload? It's been a difficult day and I'd love a chance to decompress. And you need a to address the fierce stress you're feeling. Exercise and nature are known to help, and your therapist can help even more. Good luck.
posted by theora55 at 4:10 PM on July 10, 2017
Just say 'thanks' and change the subject.
Lol, I just did it didn't I.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:13 PM on July 10, 2017
Lol, I just did it didn't I.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:13 PM on July 10, 2017
This kind of thing bugs me for a lot of reasons, most of which are covered above: the need to be heard, frustration with unsolicited (often incorrect or irrelevant) advice, etc. Another reason that it bugs me is that if it's important to me to finish my story or make a certain point, and I keep getting interrupted or other people keep pulling the conversation in other directions, I have to try to pay attention to what they are saying and at the same time hold on to what I need to say.
This is usually more relevant in business situations, where the question I need to ask or the point I need to make is kind of important.
Happily, at this point I have a lot of friends who don't do that sort of thing often. But I realized the other day that *I* was annoying someone when I made what I thought was a supportive remark. So ... it's just the kind of thing that happens sometimes even with the best of intentions.
I've learned a set of responses that work for me, more or less. And if I'm consistently frustrated by someone, I tend to fade out on the friendship.
posted by bunderful at 6:26 PM on July 10, 2017
This is usually more relevant in business situations, where the question I need to ask or the point I need to make is kind of important.
Happily, at this point I have a lot of friends who don't do that sort of thing often. But I realized the other day that *I* was annoying someone when I made what I thought was a supportive remark. So ... it's just the kind of thing that happens sometimes even with the best of intentions.
I've learned a set of responses that work for me, more or less. And if I'm consistently frustrated by someone, I tend to fade out on the friendship.
posted by bunderful at 6:26 PM on July 10, 2017
These examples demonstrate a lack of empathizing with you.
This short video by Brené Brown explains it.
posted by Murderbot at 6:39 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
This short video by Brené Brown explains it.
posted by Murderbot at 6:39 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
In reality, this was just a symptom of my then-unmanaged anxiety disorder.
This is me! Or, rather, this is part of me. Once I got my anxiety more under my control I got a lot better at splitting out well-meaning advice that may have just landed wrong or was poorly timed (i.e. things I could probably work out with my friend or say something like "Yeah this really isn't a good time for that but thanks for caring" or whatever) from people who were just lazily spouting platitudes and didn't really care that much about me or gave to much thought about my specific situation.
I'm not even sure why anxiety made me rage about this sort of thing. I just know that when my anxiety was better managed, it happens less. And when I'm more stressed out situationally, it comes back!
Me and my SO are both "fixers" and we have gotten good at laughing at how we still, after all this time, try to show the other person we care by sort of nudging them to DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT even though we know that a lot of the time we're truly just looking for some empathy and a quiet hand to hold or a hug.
So in terms of just managing this (and I'm sorry for the advice, but this is AskMe!) I've found for me it's helpful to do a little three count in my head, remember that it's okay for me to feel rage but maybe just sit with that feeling as a chance to learn something about myself and not focus that feeling back on my friend. Ditch the friends who actually don't give a shit, and learn to stick up for myself in terms of having some responses "Hey I don't want to be a bitch about this but those sorts of platitudes about my dad's kidney disease are sort of the opposite of helpful. I know you're trying to help, so maybe we could just talk about something else and you can just be here being my friend?"
My mom is in hospice. I want to kill nearly every living human being around me with their (voluminous) well-meaning advice and mostly just want hear someone say "Awww, that sucks" When a good friend of mine gave me some Facebook nonsense about "Hey now's your time to step up, she carried you for nine months" I sent her a nice note back saying basically what I suggested above ("hey it's a tough time for me, here's how you could help") and got back a really great email. It can work.
posted by jessamyn at 7:43 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is me! Or, rather, this is part of me. Once I got my anxiety more under my control I got a lot better at splitting out well-meaning advice that may have just landed wrong or was poorly timed (i.e. things I could probably work out with my friend or say something like "Yeah this really isn't a good time for that but thanks for caring" or whatever) from people who were just lazily spouting platitudes and didn't really care that much about me or gave to much thought about my specific situation.
I'm not even sure why anxiety made me rage about this sort of thing. I just know that when my anxiety was better managed, it happens less. And when I'm more stressed out situationally, it comes back!
Me and my SO are both "fixers" and we have gotten good at laughing at how we still, after all this time, try to show the other person we care by sort of nudging them to DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT even though we know that a lot of the time we're truly just looking for some empathy and a quiet hand to hold or a hug.
So in terms of just managing this (and I'm sorry for the advice, but this is AskMe!) I've found for me it's helpful to do a little three count in my head, remember that it's okay for me to feel rage but maybe just sit with that feeling as a chance to learn something about myself and not focus that feeling back on my friend. Ditch the friends who actually don't give a shit, and learn to stick up for myself in terms of having some responses "Hey I don't want to be a bitch about this but those sorts of platitudes about my dad's kidney disease are sort of the opposite of helpful. I know you're trying to help, so maybe we could just talk about something else and you can just be here being my friend?"
My mom is in hospice. I want to kill nearly every living human being around me with their (voluminous) well-meaning advice and mostly just want hear someone say "Awww, that sucks" When a good friend of mine gave me some Facebook nonsense about "Hey now's your time to step up, she carried you for nine months" I sent her a nice note back saying basically what I suggested above ("hey it's a tough time for me, here's how you could help") and got back a really great email. It can work.
posted by jessamyn at 7:43 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've been your friend in example 1. For me it was kind of a bad habit which mainly comes from being a "fixer" personality type (being in an advice giving profession doesn't help either). It's really hard to hear that a friend is struggling and not be able to do anything, so if all I have is meaningless advice, that's what you're gonna get. It really comes from a genuine desire to help. I'm not thinking "you idiot, you can't even think of the most basic solution to your problem". It's annoying, so it's totally understandable why you'd be annoyed.
What got me out of this habit was listening as my friends talked about stuff that I was so unfamiliar with, I didn't even have conventional advice to give (believe it or not, there are many such subjects). At the end they'd thank me and say I'd been a great help, and I'd be all like "but I didn't help, I contributed nothing!" As it turns out, being there and listening *was* the help. Took me many hours of feeling useless to learn this and I guess some people haven't learnt it yet.
posted by pianissimo at 7:13 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
What got me out of this habit was listening as my friends talked about stuff that I was so unfamiliar with, I didn't even have conventional advice to give (believe it or not, there are many such subjects). At the end they'd thank me and say I'd been a great help, and I'd be all like "but I didn't help, I contributed nothing!" As it turns out, being there and listening *was* the help. Took me many hours of feeling useless to learn this and I guess some people haven't learnt it yet.
posted by pianissimo at 7:13 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
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