"I don't like brown people."
June 28, 2017 12:43 PM Subscribe
So said my three year old. Complication -- I'm brown.
This happened tonight when we were reading a book with lots of different looking people. He has said some stuff like this in the past, but this was the first and most specific example of discrimination. I didn't make it into a big deal, but pointed out that I was brown, along with his grandparents, cousins, etc., and he agreed he loves ME and THEM just not OTHER brown people. He said instead he only likes "pink" people.
He is not very brown himself. We live in a mixed area, but very divided socio-economically divided -- very few "brown" kids go to his daycare, for example, and my family lives far away. I've really made efforts to meet more diverse families, but it hasn't stuck yet -- I know I need to try harder. Most of the people in his world on a daily basis -- if not, on some days ALL, except for me are "pink."
Any suggestions for dealing with this? It makes me very sad. We DO have lots of books with brown children, etc. and I try to talk about these things but he's 3! I thought I had a bit of time. I really feel like I've failed here.
This happened tonight when we were reading a book with lots of different looking people. He has said some stuff like this in the past, but this was the first and most specific example of discrimination. I didn't make it into a big deal, but pointed out that I was brown, along with his grandparents, cousins, etc., and he agreed he loves ME and THEM just not OTHER brown people. He said instead he only likes "pink" people.
He is not very brown himself. We live in a mixed area, but very divided socio-economically divided -- very few "brown" kids go to his daycare, for example, and my family lives far away. I've really made efforts to meet more diverse families, but it hasn't stuck yet -- I know I need to try harder. Most of the people in his world on a daily basis -- if not, on some days ALL, except for me are "pink."
Any suggestions for dealing with this? It makes me very sad. We DO have lots of books with brown children, etc. and I try to talk about these things but he's 3! I thought I had a bit of time. I really feel like I've failed here.
Response by poster: Doesn't give a reason why! No justification at all. I just said, "brown people and pink people are just the same, they just look different" or something like that. (Surely there's a better answer?)
posted by heavenknows at 1:00 PM on June 28, 2017
posted by heavenknows at 1:00 PM on June 28, 2017
Just had a similar conversation with my 6yo brown child this week. I am the white parent, but we live together with dad, ie my husband, who is brown. Our schools and social circle are very mixed.
My child said that he would not allow any brown kids at camp to play with his toys because he doesn't like them. As I pulled at the thread of his statement, it came out that two particular kids have not been being nice to him or sharing well. I talked to him about boundaries and not having to play with kids that he doesn't like. But then I reminded him that he is brown, and that he is one of the nicest people I know, and that I would be really sad if I found out that someone wasn't playing with him or sharing with him because of his skin color. I asked him to try to set his boundaries by who plays well and makes good decisions rather than by the color of their skin.
So maybe your kiddo is dealing with something difficult with a particular person but is having trouble articulating their difficulty and has reached for this language. I don't truly believe that kids this age are capable of being racist (as long as they are not actively being taught to be racist).
posted by vignettist at 1:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [68 favorites]
My child said that he would not allow any brown kids at camp to play with his toys because he doesn't like them. As I pulled at the thread of his statement, it came out that two particular kids have not been being nice to him or sharing well. I talked to him about boundaries and not having to play with kids that he doesn't like. But then I reminded him that he is brown, and that he is one of the nicest people I know, and that I would be really sad if I found out that someone wasn't playing with him or sharing with him because of his skin color. I asked him to try to set his boundaries by who plays well and makes good decisions rather than by the color of their skin.
So maybe your kiddo is dealing with something difficult with a particular person but is having trouble articulating their difficulty and has reached for this language. I don't truly believe that kids this age are capable of being racist (as long as they are not actively being taught to be racist).
posted by vignettist at 1:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [68 favorites]
I would gently correct him and let it go. Three year olds pop out occasionally with awful or ridiculous things, sometimes hurtful, sometimes absurd. I'd continue the book reading and exposure where you can, and keep the conversations light and truthful and ask questions when it comes up. Vignettist's script is really good. Your work will pay off.
I get how hurt you must be and I am not at all trivializing it but three is very, very young and their ability to explain how they got from point A to point B or recognize their logical errors is pretty remote. They are willing to think fairies take teeth from under their pillows.
Try to have faith in your parenting and your kid, and reject the idea that you have 'failed'--it's just so totally untrue and unfair to yourself.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:08 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
I get how hurt you must be and I am not at all trivializing it but three is very, very young and their ability to explain how they got from point A to point B or recognize their logical errors is pretty remote. They are willing to think fairies take teeth from under their pillows.
Try to have faith in your parenting and your kid, and reject the idea that you have 'failed'--it's just so totally untrue and unfair to yourself.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:08 PM on June 28, 2017 [14 favorites]
I don't truly believe that kids this age are capable of being racist (as long as they are not actively being taught to be racist).
I would agree. Kids tend to be very focused on binary things like gender – this is what girls are/this is what boys are – at this age. The fact that your kid has a vocabulary for skin color just means that they have something else to be binary about and explore what that means. Brown people are/pink people are. I think you are doing the right thing. It might be nice to take a trip where there are more "brown people" and find some playmates for him to hang out with.
posted by amanda at 1:10 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
I would agree. Kids tend to be very focused on binary things like gender – this is what girls are/this is what boys are – at this age. The fact that your kid has a vocabulary for skin color just means that they have something else to be binary about and explore what that means. Brown people are/pink people are. I think you are doing the right thing. It might be nice to take a trip where there are more "brown people" and find some playmates for him to hang out with.
posted by amanda at 1:10 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
My son said something like this once or twice when he was that age. His very beloved father is brown. His absolute best friend at the time was even darker than his beloved dad. I'm not sure if he knew what he was talking about, and like your son, he also sorta seemed to have weird compartments or categories for what he was expressing. He grew out of saying odd embarrassing things like that around 4 or 5 and he's very "switched on" 3 years later and he would never ever say anything like that today. I only remember him expressing unkind stuff a handful of times over the years, but this was definitely one of the things he said.
Kids are weird sometimes, it's best not to focus on something like this because your child might not be talking about what you think he means. I know there's a tendency to feel embarrassed as if you are a bad parent or something. Try to let that go.
It's OK to gently respond exactly the way you did. Repeat as necessary.
posted by jbenben at 1:11 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
Kids are weird sometimes, it's best not to focus on something like this because your child might not be talking about what you think he means. I know there's a tendency to feel embarrassed as if you are a bad parent or something. Try to let that go.
It's OK to gently respond exactly the way you did. Repeat as necessary.
posted by jbenben at 1:11 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
My 3-year-old has started to notice skin color recently, too, and although she is so far approaching it neutrally, it does make me a bit nervous. According to her, I'm "tan," and she and mommy are "peach" (I am definitely a shade or three darker than them) and one of her friends at school is "a brown girl."
But I also agree with vignettist -- I doubt, given the question, that your child has made any value judgments about all brown people at that age or has picked up any negative associations with skin color. This isn't a failure. Keep on keeping on, respond with gentle assurances that we're all the same inside, and try not to make a big thing of it (even though it's uncomfortable).
posted by uncleozzy at 1:14 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
But I also agree with vignettist -- I doubt, given the question, that your child has made any value judgments about all brown people at that age or has picked up any negative associations with skin color. This isn't a failure. Keep on keeping on, respond with gentle assurances that we're all the same inside, and try not to make a big thing of it (even though it's uncomfortable).
posted by uncleozzy at 1:14 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was going to guess what vignettist related: he probably had a disagreement or run-in -- no doubt over something very important to a three year old, like a favorite duplo block or pillow -- with one of the kids at daycare.
He probably didn't even sort people into brown and pink at the time of that disharmony. It was only later, looking at the book with "brown" people in it, that he remembered the problem at daycare was with a person that color (aha!) and so his clever brain contextualized his experience using his new knowledge.
Which, if it weren't for the surprising specific topic, is a pretty impressive bit of cognitive-development for a three year old. Take some pride in that instead of thinking You Have Failed in some way based on, you know, the mouths of babes and all.
Again, yes... I'm guessing... but it seems pretty likely to me that his brain just clicked that the people he liked at daycare yesterday were pink and the ones he recently didn't like were brown... and so he jumped to a generalization, since "coincidence" probably isn't quite in his grasp yet.
posted by rokusan at 1:19 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
He probably didn't even sort people into brown and pink at the time of that disharmony. It was only later, looking at the book with "brown" people in it, that he remembered the problem at daycare was with a person that color (aha!) and so his clever brain contextualized his experience using his new knowledge.
Which, if it weren't for the surprising specific topic, is a pretty impressive bit of cognitive-development for a three year old. Take some pride in that instead of thinking You Have Failed in some way based on, you know, the mouths of babes and all.
Again, yes... I'm guessing... but it seems pretty likely to me that his brain just clicked that the people he liked at daycare yesterday were pink and the ones he recently didn't like were brown... and so he jumped to a generalization, since "coincidence" probably isn't quite in his grasp yet.
posted by rokusan at 1:19 PM on June 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is incredibly stressful but developmentally completely normal -- welcome to the awkward few years where your child assigns likes and dislikes of other humans based on visual characteristics, which is sometimes benign like shirt color and sometimes very uncomfortable like skin color.
From working with early childhood educators, I learned there are basically two parts to your responses -- First, how would you respond if your kid said he only liked people with red shirts, and not blue shirts? Respond in a similar fashion to this, because your child's current understanding of skin color categories is fully as arbitrary as T-shirt color categories. But second, he is already learning that skin color is something people pay attention to, even though he doesn't really understand why it's different than shirt color, so you also do want to think about what values you want to transmit and gently insert that into the conversation in age-appropriate ways.
IOW, don't panic, this is normal, and it's not a sign of bad parenting or a bad or prejudiced kid; it's a sign that kids at this age are all about categories for people. Respond as calmly as if he were talking about shirts (pointing out that's a pretty silly reason to like or dislike someone), and start gradually and gently and positively talking about race and how race is different than shirt color. Not in an after school special Big Talk way, but just always making sure to express your values of equality and inclusion and anti-racism in small ways, modeling for him your moral stance. When it is time to talk about actual racism and not "3-year-olds love categories and some of their categories are dumb," he'll already be pretty clear on where you stand because you've been offering those ideas and living those morals for years.
The one "dangerous" answer is to say, "We don't say that!" and not address it -- that lets kids know that it's taboo and bad, but they don't understand why, and they grow up with some pretty confused ideas about race (and shame and taboos and so on ... like kids of parents who don't talk about sex). It's the one time you have to calmly and patiently answer really, really dumb questions about race and skin color and so on, because little kids legit don't know, and it's better they get their answers from a thoughtful parent than by running up against a taboo and putting together their own theory based on context clues (surprise: the context in North America is racism!). In that way it is very very much like talking about sex, in that it's often uncomfortable for the parent and will probably lead to a few excruciatingly awkward moments in public when your child vocalizes his thoughts to strangers, but it's very much better for kids to get proper information from loving adults.
It sounds like you handled it great in the moment! Keep on keepin' on and have faith this awkward phase will pass.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:32 PM on June 28, 2017 [36 favorites]
From working with early childhood educators, I learned there are basically two parts to your responses -- First, how would you respond if your kid said he only liked people with red shirts, and not blue shirts? Respond in a similar fashion to this, because your child's current understanding of skin color categories is fully as arbitrary as T-shirt color categories. But second, he is already learning that skin color is something people pay attention to, even though he doesn't really understand why it's different than shirt color, so you also do want to think about what values you want to transmit and gently insert that into the conversation in age-appropriate ways.
IOW, don't panic, this is normal, and it's not a sign of bad parenting or a bad or prejudiced kid; it's a sign that kids at this age are all about categories for people. Respond as calmly as if he were talking about shirts (pointing out that's a pretty silly reason to like or dislike someone), and start gradually and gently and positively talking about race and how race is different than shirt color. Not in an after school special Big Talk way, but just always making sure to express your values of equality and inclusion and anti-racism in small ways, modeling for him your moral stance. When it is time to talk about actual racism and not "3-year-olds love categories and some of their categories are dumb," he'll already be pretty clear on where you stand because you've been offering those ideas and living those morals for years.
The one "dangerous" answer is to say, "We don't say that!" and not address it -- that lets kids know that it's taboo and bad, but they don't understand why, and they grow up with some pretty confused ideas about race (and shame and taboos and so on ... like kids of parents who don't talk about sex). It's the one time you have to calmly and patiently answer really, really dumb questions about race and skin color and so on, because little kids legit don't know, and it's better they get their answers from a thoughtful parent than by running up against a taboo and putting together their own theory based on context clues (surprise: the context in North America is racism!). In that way it is very very much like talking about sex, in that it's often uncomfortable for the parent and will probably lead to a few excruciatingly awkward moments in public when your child vocalizes his thoughts to strangers, but it's very much better for kids to get proper information from loving adults.
It sounds like you handled it great in the moment! Keep on keepin' on and have faith this awkward phase will pass.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:32 PM on June 28, 2017 [36 favorites]
Three year olds are just learning to differentiate/distinguish things, and they tend to "like" and "not like" as part of learning to do this but not having the brain development or vocabulary to actually express nuances like familiarity or things like encountering one brown person wearing an orange shirt on a day that orange was bad and extrapolating the "not like" to brown people rather than orange shirts.
Now, can that behavior be rewarded, sculpted, and groomed to suit the ideological tastes of the people around them, or develop into a Fear of Other situation? Sure. It can be done on purpose, it's been done somewhat accidentally for at least decades by well-meaning "colorblind" people who teach kids that racism is rude but forget to mention it's wrong or how to recognize it or combat it.
It doesn't get set in stone at 3, though. It's a process, over a very long time, to teach your kids how to be/not be racist. You take the opportunities when they come, over and over, to build a narrative. Today's not the day for a long talk about systematic oppression, but it can be the start of learning to talk about the concepts.
Definitely start rotating more books in that have representation, and I think there's a growing body of books for parents about talking about race with children, but maybe also take these opportunities to ask why or what happened to make them say that, just to begin the habit of examining our reasons for our behavior in the world and also to look for good old weird kid logic that sounds like something completely different to your adult ears.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:32 PM on June 28, 2017
Now, can that behavior be rewarded, sculpted, and groomed to suit the ideological tastes of the people around them, or develop into a Fear of Other situation? Sure. It can be done on purpose, it's been done somewhat accidentally for at least decades by well-meaning "colorblind" people who teach kids that racism is rude but forget to mention it's wrong or how to recognize it or combat it.
It doesn't get set in stone at 3, though. It's a process, over a very long time, to teach your kids how to be/not be racist. You take the opportunities when they come, over and over, to build a narrative. Today's not the day for a long talk about systematic oppression, but it can be the start of learning to talk about the concepts.
Definitely start rotating more books in that have representation, and I think there's a growing body of books for parents about talking about race with children, but maybe also take these opportunities to ask why or what happened to make them say that, just to begin the habit of examining our reasons for our behavior in the world and also to look for good old weird kid logic that sounds like something completely different to your adult ears.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:32 PM on June 28, 2017
It seems like you are doing all the right things, and this can be put in the same category as, "I hate you, Mommy!", "It's mine because I saw it", and "I can squish all the ants!" - statements that would be disturbing coming from an older kid but from a three year old are perfectly normal, opportunities for further conversation, and (thankfully) momentary.
posted by Ausamor at 1:39 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ausamor at 1:39 PM on June 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
You know what? Is he in preschool? Has someone introduced crayons and their names recently? I wonder if somebody (maybe a teacher or a classmate or an aide or a parent) has expressed a preference for using the "pink" or "peach" crayons but not the "brown" ones when drawing people.
posted by Hermione Granger at 1:58 PM on June 28, 2017
posted by Hermione Granger at 1:58 PM on June 28, 2017
This is the age when kids start developing / expressing race-based prejudice. Parenting in an anti-racist way seems to involve figuring out how to talk about race to very young children (I say as someone who has never parented a 3-y-o). Here is some related stuff from a "Harvard researcher" and a Slate roundup.
posted by salvia at 2:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by salvia at 2:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
I will bet you anything you want that there was a kid (or kids) with dark skin that he had some sort of off-putting encounter with recently. At a park, at school, at a dentist's waiting room, could be anywhere.
A child that age can't spontaneously come up with racism. They can only adopt attitudes they hear from people around them, or generalize from their own experiences. If it isn't the first then it has to be the second.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:33 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
A child that age can't spontaneously come up with racism. They can only adopt attitudes they hear from people around them, or generalize from their own experiences. If it isn't the first then it has to be the second.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:33 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
He doesn't know what he's saying. Gently correct him, then model empathy and acceptance, making a point to discuss how everyone is equal, how people who are different races are ~all the same on the inside~ and all that stuff. Focus on people's traits and not appearances. He'll learn. He's only three.
When I was three, I learned the n word, and I practiced using it regularly for a while. I am the whitest girl you know. My parents gently corrected me and I learned. Your son will, too.
posted by Amy93 at 6:36 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
When I was three, I learned the n word, and I practiced using it regularly for a while. I am the whitest girl you know. My parents gently corrected me and I learned. Your son will, too.
posted by Amy93 at 6:36 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
My then three year old would often say the same thing as the (probable) result of seeing me in a violent confrontation with a "brown" burglar in our apartment. We lived in a very diverse neighborhood, and she would make similar comments to other friends and adults. I tried not to make too big of a deal out of it and gave her the whole rainbow of skin colors and we're all the same on the inside line, but she wasn't so interested. UNTIL we read the book The Colors of Us by Karen Katz. The story describes the skin color of people in the neighborhood as shades of delectable desserts like cinnamon, chocolate, and peanut butter with many other nuances in between. It is brilliant for this age group because there is no preachy agenda about the fundamental equality of human beings (which a three year old has likely never questioned), but instead depicts the delight of a little girl walking through her neighborhood and actively noticing and appreciating the individual physical differences of her friends.
It also gives children (and adults) a wonderful vocabulary for describing skin tones. Recently, I saw my daughter holding a friend's hand and tell her that she is the color of a Hershey's kiss. And then she pretended to eat her.
posted by defreckled at 8:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
It also gives children (and adults) a wonderful vocabulary for describing skin tones. Recently, I saw my daughter holding a friend's hand and tell her that she is the color of a Hershey's kiss. And then she pretended to eat her.
posted by defreckled at 8:02 PM on June 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
"It would make me very sad if somebody didn't like me just because I was brown."
posted by trig at 11:25 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by trig at 11:25 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Totally normal for a three year old to waaaay overgeneralize and say exploratory and (for an adult) inappropriate things as The Truth.
Fine parent responses:
a) nothing
b) how was preschool?
c) why is that?
Don't bring the hammer down here.
posted by zippy at 11:47 PM on June 28, 2017
Fine parent responses:
a) nothing
b) how was preschool?
c) why is that?
Don't bring the hammer down here.
posted by zippy at 11:47 PM on June 28, 2017
My youngest made the same comment when he was preschool age. Turned out when asked that he just did not like the color brown. He has grown to be a very caring young man.
posted by tman99 at 6:02 AM on June 29, 2017
posted by tman99 at 6:02 AM on June 29, 2017
I find this topic fascinating. I'm dark brown and my partner is also, our daughter is medium brown and she never said I don't like pink people but she did say she was afraid of brown people...is it the images we portray? Fascinating to read in Kenneth Clark's sociological study referenced in Brown v. Kansas Bd of Education. We need to be calm and yet vigilent. My child finally came around and told me she did like chocolate so brown people were ok afterall.
posted by drthom at 6:26 AM on June 29, 2017
posted by drthom at 6:26 AM on June 29, 2017
As a 49 year-old gay man shocked to find himself in a quasi-stepparenting role to a five-year-old, it's worth remembering that (a) children are vicious, amoral monsters who don't have the least idea how what they say affects you and (b) reality for them is like being in a blender, so what horrrendous thoughts they have now will be long forgotten in an hour. Just keep feeding in positives, accept that children are not yet human, and let it roll.
posted by sonascope at 6:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by sonascope at 6:48 AM on June 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
P.S. Little Miss, while we were drawing a valentine to give to her dad, informed me that I should not also draw a heart for Daddy next to my stick figure because a boy can't love another boy.
Oh, you little bitch, my inner monologue muttered, then I smiled and informed her that boys can, in fact love another boy or whatever consenting person they want.
"Do you love Daddy?"
"Of course, darlin'."
But she's still not clear on things. Feed in the positives, shrug off the ridiculous, and let it roll.
posted by sonascope at 6:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, you little bitch, my inner monologue muttered, then I smiled and informed her that boys can, in fact love another boy or whatever consenting person they want.
"Do you love Daddy?"
"Of course, darlin'."
But she's still not clear on things. Feed in the positives, shrug off the ridiculous, and let it roll.
posted by sonascope at 6:53 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lots of great responses. I work with children this age and their parents, and this often comes up. Kids this age are indeed using binary thinking to try to understand their world, and there is some research that indicates that even very young children see race and act with racial bias. Here is a good article for parents (please forgive it being from Slate, all the researchers cited in here are very good.) It's really normal for little ones to make comments like this.
Addendum: Sorry I can't get the link to work, so I'm just putting it here so you can copy it.
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2014/03/teaching_tolerance_how_white_parents_should_talk_to_their_kids_about_race.html
posted by fairlynearlyready at 7:47 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Addendum: Sorry I can't get the link to work, so I'm just putting it here so you can copy it.
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2014/03/teaching_tolerance_how_white_parents_should_talk_to_their_kids_about_race.html
posted by fairlynearlyready at 7:47 AM on June 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Made the link work
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:43 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone -- this is all very reassuring. I've read everything cited here and also ordered a bunch more children's books with brown people! I feel more prepared to face this and also relieved that it's probably just a 3 year old thing. It does make me sad that I never hear about kids saying that they don't like "pink" people though. :(
posted by heavenknows at 8:51 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by heavenknows at 8:51 AM on June 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
PDF of developmental stages regarding race and identity.
Psychology Today: Are Kids Racist?
PDF on Children, Race, and Racism: How Race Awareness Develops
TFA resource: What Do Preschoolers Understand About Racism?
posted by Miko at 11:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Psychology Today: Are Kids Racist?
PDF on Children, Race, and Racism: How Race Awareness Develops
TFA resource: What Do Preschoolers Understand About Racism?
posted by Miko at 11:07 AM on June 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Hermione Granger at 12:51 PM on June 28, 2017 [1 favorite]