How can I stop being codependent with guy friend?
June 25, 2017 1:35 AM   Subscribe

I apologise for the length, I want to try and include all the relevant details.

2010: I graduated from uni, I felt incredibly guilty for ending a relationship of 4 yrs with my first boyfriend (in hindsight I was codependent then!). A male friend who I 'knew of' from school (who most people considered a bit 'weird' a bit of loner) messaged me on Facebook. I instantly took pity on him so we started speaking. We connected straight away both sharing our painful experiences in relationships. We also spoke about anxiety, LSE etc. I did everything I could to make him feel good about himself. We started going on photography trips, not always but fairly often. He had a girlfriend of 10 years which helped keep boundaries in place.

2011/2012: We fell out for around a year when he introduced me to a friend of his (someone he knew at work) and we 'fooled around' because he felt left out. He started almost stalking me online, becoming jealous and possessive. I blocked him on FB but said I would be open to being friends again but he needed to grow up.

2013: I moved into my first flat (a block of flats) in the village. This guy friend and his gf moved into the flat above me. For a while this worked fine. I was aware I was slowly getting closer to him, but could easily have stepped away too.

2014: Early 2014, I was out of work. I quickly became very depressed and my self esteem plummeted. I had a lot of pressure from my parents, other friends to get a job, when I got one I was so anxious I quit and this brought more pressure and misunderstanding. This guy friend was the only one who understood me. We quickly became very close. He would be round all the time, hugging etc. We would go on lots of photography trips. I was 'happy' just me and him, in my comfort rut. I started seeing others less and less. I did try and speak out to him a few times that I felt perhaps we shouldn't hug so much or put kisses on the end of messages (things like that), he would always dismiss what I said/ try and talk me round. I felt maybe I was being a little OTT then. If I'm honest I think at this point part of me also liked it.

Mid 2014, him and his girlfriend broke up. I PANICKED and I mean panicked, i still remember the feeling of dread inside me. I suddenly realised how out of control things had become. I was with this person, who was lovely to me but very vulnerable and depressed a lot of the time, also pretty manipulative. I wasn't truly happy but was unable to do anything about it. I should also say at this point I had got a job but it was working nights (weekends) at Sainsbury's so I was never able to see many of my other (healthier) friends.

Late 2014, we got very drunk at my parents one night and he kissed me. I knew I didn't feel the same way, but I kissed him back. I enjoyed the attention. What proceeded after that was a few months of on and off kissing (initiated by me). Lots of confusion! I knew he wasn't really 'boyfriend material' only because of his negativity and possessiveness, but I enjoyed the attention so much. I guess part of me also felt unable to say/ do anything about it.

2014: Christmas, I couldn't sleep... AT ALL! I couldn't stop panicking about this guy, he was messaging me NON stop (because I wasn't replying). I felt trapped and like I couldn't escape. I eventually gave into my anxiety and wrote him a very long message on FB to say I'm sorry but it's all got too much for me, I need to let this go. I can't be your friend. He immediately retaliated, very angry and started accusing me of all sorts. I immediately felt guilty, incredibly guilty.

2015: Because we still lived in the same block of flats, and he was pressurising me into being friends, I eventually gave in and we tried being friends again. Of course it didn't work because ALL of my codependent behaviours were still there and his and I started feeling resentful. I knew I needed to back away but I always found it hard, because I did (and still do) care very much about him. I could never quite bring myself to say the friendship is over and mean it. I guess I didn't want to give up the attention either. Whenever I did say I think we need to end things, he would get angry and make threats, threats to tell people things I had told him in confidence, generally just making me feel really bad. He even threatened suicide.

2016: Mid 2016 I moved back in with my parents. I was able to tell him then that I didn't think we could be friends/ friendship just wasn't healthy in a firmer way. Of course I received no end of hate mail from him. He found any way he could to message me (including creating a fake FB account because I blocked him on the other one). I felt so so guilty and would always end up messaging back which only made things worse.

2017: I am now living in a new flat, new town. He still tries to message me, every few months (on whatever he can, Instagram, my new FB). He always says the same thing, that he just wants to talk, hang out again. That he misses the photography trips. I said no to being friends on Instagram, he got very angry and then blocked me! Then I saw him last week at our local pub, said hi. On Friday I then received a message to say sorry things were awkward at the pub, perhaps we could meet up for a drink ('make the peace')? I responded, actually had quite a nice conversation but I still said I didn't think meeting up anytime soon is a good idea. I said I needed to sort myself out first. I then felt really... annoyed at myself. I felt like 1) I was giving him false hope, 2) I was taking responsibility for ALL of it. I probably should have left it. However I messaged again yesterday to say "I'm sorry, I really don't think being friends is a good idea." He again got very angry, tried to talk me round. I got more and more confused, probably confused him even more, before finally saying again, that NO I don't think we can be friends. He said I'm crazy and that I need to sort myself out. Then he blocked me.

Please help me make sense of this? It's not going away and I can't help but feel at least some of this is my doing. I just don't know how to make it right (or perhaps that's the point I need to stop trying!). Please be (honest) but kind to me. I'm hurting already.
posted by SnapperJack to Human Relations (18 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: You both sound as codependent as each other, otherwise either of you would have ditched the friendship for good a long time ago because it is just way too much drama for no real reason. You admit to enjoying the attention despite knowing the friendship/situation is bad for you, so, sorry, it is definitely some of your doing.

If you truly want to be rid of this situation, initiate nil contact (and don't tell him that you're doing so, anything else is just seeking attention) and find new friends to fill the void that will be created.
posted by ryanbryan at 2:09 AM on June 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


Best answer: This whole question reads to me as this odd combination of you, at some intellectual level, recognizing that you played a role in this mess while also projecting an obvious belief that this all just happened TO you and that you had/have no control over anything. It is time for you to see a professional mental health practitioner. You most certainly have agency in your own life. You need a therapist to talk to about the underlying problems at play here: codependency and anxiety. Maybe you need additional pharmacological management of your anxiety but it definitely sounds like you need someone who has training in helping people who have codependency tendencies. I think you could feel so much better with someone to help you address these issues.

All that being said this person is close to if not already stalking you and that needs to be dealt with. Which means all contact needs to stop. No more responding to his messages. Ever. Block him on all social media. Do not engage him in any attempts to communicate with you and if he continues to harass you need to take it to the authorities. Responding to him, consistently or inconsistently, gives him the idea that he can keep prodding you because eventually he'll get a reaction from you. You + him = unhealthy. You don't have to have unhealthy relationships to have companionship.

This problem won't go away with resolution of this particular situation. It will just happen again, another version with another person, until you deal with why this happened in the first place. You do that by getting someone with professional experience to help you work through it. Hopefully you have access to that type of medical care and recognize the necessity of taking advantage of it.
posted by teamnap at 3:24 AM on June 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


I don't know where you live, but see if there is a Co-dependents Anonymous meeting near you, and see if their book resonates for you.
posted by SyraCarol at 3:59 AM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I am currently in counselling so am hoping I will get to the bottom of why I feel the need to be so submissive and 'people please' and ultimately put up with behaviour that is really unacceptable.

I do acknowledge my part in this. I understand that some of my feeling guilty is justified. I did confuse him a hell of a lot. I still am. But I also understand that he is not in a particulary healthy place himself and that most people would have just let it go by now.

I still feel powerless if I thought he would ever contact me again, currently. I will bring this up in counselling. Although I do feel stronger and more able to see things for what they are now.

Thank you.
posted by SnapperJack at 4:42 AM on June 25, 2017


Sounds like you are doing the right things. So dont be so hard on yourself. Stick to your boundaries that you set. Try not to worry about what he thinks of you, you cant change that. Let him believe what he wants to believe. His beliefs dont affect you. You got this. This internet stranger believes in you.
posted by shalom at 5:07 AM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


You're in therapy and you're not engaging with him which are both really important - keep doing both of those things!

If you can find a support group - even online - then you'd have people to talk to if you are tempted to get back in touch with him or respond to him.

When I'm working on things it's helpful to keep them at the top of my mind by getting new information about them or repeating things I already know - so it might be good to make a list of books, articles, podcasts, etc about codependency and healthy boundaries and then make a point of regular consumption.

Good for you for recognizing the problem and doing something about it. Good luck.
posted by bunderful at 5:50 AM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


You're not powerless. Here you are telling your story, on the internet. I'm on a different hemisphere of Earth, and I have read what you have written.

That doesn't mean my opinion is valuable, my advice even less. Though since you ask, I do have some insight I can give you. When you talk about dependence, I think about the friends I know who've quit drugs. It was tough and they had to go through withdrawals and detox. But after the grim slimy sweat and the convulsions and the pain, they feel like new people. Life starts again when you stop taking toxic shit.
posted by adept256 at 5:51 AM on June 25, 2017


Threatening blackmail and suicide if you break off the relationship is coercion and it's abusive behavior. Your story sounds like the typical self-blame of a survivor of an abusive relationship. You did not cause this. If your therapist is not being very very clear with you that this level of abusiveness is not your fault, you may want to contact your local domestic violence/intimate-partner violence center (in the US, you can call 1-800-799-7233 and they'll generally route you to your local center, or at least be able to give you info) and ask for help or recommendations for other therapists.

I'm sorry you're going through this. You did not deserve it, and his behavior is not your fault.
posted by lazuli at 7:13 AM on June 25, 2017 [11 favorites]


He even threatened suicide.

Block his calls, block him on facebook, block his emails. If you see him in a pub, don't talk to him. There are no circumstances in which continuing to interact with this person are going to end well for you. He's abusive and dangerous, to himself, and you.
posted by empath at 7:16 AM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


It may also be helpful to read Why Does He Do That? Inside the minds of Angry and Controlling Men and The Gift of Fear, if you haven't already.

I would also gently point out that taking responsibility for another adult's anger can be a way of staying stuck in a co-dependent model in which you are responsible for everyone else's wellbeing. That may be another area to work on with a therapist with training and experience working with abuse survivors.
posted by lazuli at 7:17 AM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


I eventually gave into my anxiety and wrote him a very long message on FB to say I'm sorry but it's all got too much for me, I need to let this go. I can't be your friend. He immediately retaliated, very angry and started accusing me of all sorts. I immediately felt guilty, incredibly guilty.

Whenever I did say I think we need to end things, he would get angry and make threats,

I was able to tell him then that I didn't think we could be friends/ friendship just wasn't healthy in a firmer way. Of course I received no end of hate mail from him.

I messaged again yesterday to say "I'm sorry, I really don't think being friends is a good idea." He again got very angry, tried to talk me round.


If he'd taken No for an answer just one of these times before the last time, you wouldn't have gone through any of this and you wouldn't be letting other people blame you for passivity now. (See, I'm doing it too -- I say you "let" people here say it's half your fault, as if you're responsible for allowing yourself to be blamed. But other people don't behave a particular way because you let them; they do it because they want to.)

Your "codependence" and mixed messages are not to blame for his threats and insults. Not even half to blame or a quarter to blame. You say you confused him, but abusive language and threats when a woman rejects you are not a normal or an acceptable response to confusion. You were confused too, and you didn't do that to him.

The only thing to dwell on is why you twice mentioned him blocking you as a bad thing or a surprise. That's your goal! You've achieved it; just hang onto it this time. That's him backing off. That's good. There is no making it right with him because he's not a right guy. I think you are intentionally portraying yourself in a bad light and highlighting your past passivity and codependence in an attempt to justify still caring about him, as if to say: look, how bad can he really be if I'm bad too? but it doesn't work. Letting go of the habits that trouble you requires seeing that they did not cause or excuse his behavior, and that is maybe part of why it's difficult.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:18 AM on June 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: Thank you so much for the messages and kind words. I am hurting so badly and it's such a relief to see (and i can see) that it's not ALL my fault.

I think the thing which really doesn't help me move on (and the thing I feel the most guilty about) is that I always feel so incredibly guilty for cutting him out Christmas 2014. Just to give some context, I literally could not sleep (I was working nights at the time and even on my days off would be awake ALL night to the point I had to go to the Drs for sleeping pills). I panicked because when I tried to cut down on communication, he would ALWAYS be there, on Facebook, and began messaging me asking where I was, why i was ignoring him etc. (e.g. if I had 'Liked' other people's posts but not responded to his private messages he would get annoyed). I felt trapped. I could see that wasn't normal behaviour. That said, I always wonder whether simply cutting ties was the best decision (he didn't know any different and it came as such a shock) and it was really since then that all this abuse started.

I always think if I had just been in a better place emotionally, I would have liked to have taken responsibility for my actions and just backed off a bit/ focused on cultivating healthier friendships and re-building my sense of self. That way none of this would have come across as so personal and he wouldn't have then got so angry and guilt tripped me back.

That said, I realise that at the time I just couldn't do that. I forgive myself for that. I also realise that there are two sides to every story and if I'm saying I could have done that, then the same applies to him. He could have just let me be.
posted by SnapperJack at 9:38 AM on June 25, 2017


Response by poster: I agree I am harsh on myself, I have been told this before. I will continue with counselling and getting myself in a better place. Also not taking responsibility for someone else and asserting boundaries.
posted by SnapperJack at 9:46 AM on June 25, 2017


Oh honey. Anyone who sends you "hate mail" is not your friend. Ever. That's a drop dead, block them right away and never talk to them again deal breaker. This guy is NOT a good guy. You only "care" about him because you have been trained and conditioned to over a period of time. You thought he was a loser when you first met then he mirrored your behavior and feelings until you felt a connection then he conditioned your actions via his responses. It's classic. He doesn't care about you as a person at all, only as an something convenient for himself. I guarantee you this guy is never going to sit around and think "snapperjack- I hope she's having fun today and is happy". He's only thinking of what he can get from you.

In summary: talk to your Mum and Dad, talk to your good girlfriends, show them some of the messages he sent. Receive copious affirmation that he's a crazy asshole and move on with your life.
posted by fshgrl at 11:29 AM on June 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


Cutting him off in Christmas 2014 was the right thing, because he already was abusive. That's what wanting to know where you are monitoring your bahaviour is. You felt trapped and you got free. That's good.
posted by SyraCarol at 12:07 PM on June 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sometimes people label black and white thinking as a bad thing but in this case it can be your friend and ally.

Facts: You and he are not good together. You recognize that you don't want to be friends. Every time you respond at all, it sets you for another spiral of bad feelings.

So don't do it.

New rule for yourself: NO CONTACT. Make a commitment to yourself that this will be an absolute, black and white rule. It doesn't matter if a part of you believes that it is rude or unfair. A part of brain will say that you should be kind or explain or recognize your responsibility. Doesn't matter because the only way to convince both him and yourself that this is absolutely over is not to give him any encouragement and to his mind, any contact is encouragement. To repeat - No matter how awkward it feels, stick to this one rule - NO CONTACT.

If some part of you bulks at that, then you have my permission to modify it absolutely no contact for at least two years. I think by then you will be stronger and clearer in your own head and won't be tempted. If you are tempted, then add another year or two to the deadline.
posted by metahawk at 12:43 PM on June 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thank you again for your responses, it is helpful to see other perspectives.

I think the reason I feel so responsible as well is because a lot of it was ME for the longest time, going to his, asking if he wanted to hang out, cuddling, kissing him etc. I guess part of me enjoyed knowing he liked/admired me. It made me feel special. It gave me an ego boost. I do recognise that he has his own issues though e.g. before, constantly sitting around on FB, Liking/ commenting on every status I put up. It just felt like he was always there. It was creepy.

I guess what I'm saying is, yes he has issues, but for a long time I had boundaries and so that wasn't a problem. It was only when my own issues came into play, when I began seeing more and more of him that it became an issue. Because then he didn't want to let me go.
posted by SnapperJack at 2:21 AM on June 26, 2017


Response by poster: I can see how codependent I sound. It's actually helpful just writing it out and reading it back. Ultimately it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks, we can only do what we think is right at the time.

I did recognise Christmas 2014 that it wasn't working. Not just because of me and my issues, but because of his too. I could see how invested he had become. Perhaps I could have said it in a kinder way, in person etc. but it wasn't easy because I knew I would be talked round. Either way I should have stuck to my guns. I accept that I didn't, I accept it's a learning curve.

I guess ultimately we both played a part in this. But ultimately we are only responsible for ourselves. I need to take responsibility now for myself and let it go.
posted by SnapperJack at 2:39 AM on June 26, 2017


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