Feminine-of-center look for pre-everything trans lady
June 21, 2017 6:04 AM   Subscribe

I'm taking my MTF sibling clothes shopping. I have no idea where to start. Help?

My sibling will be visiting me for a few days next month, and has said she wants to go shopping.

She is currently pre-everything and dressing Standard Masculine, but wants a more androgynous look. However, since we're originally from a fairly backasswards, very Catholic country, she's still living there, and she's only out to me and her close friends (not to my parents or anyone else), she wants something which will mostly read as "guy with an androgynous look" and will not elicit any comments along the lines of "Mommy, why is that man wearing a dress?". (Her description, not mine.)

For now, she just wants clothes, not makeup.

The problem: I am a cis woman, I know nothing about dressing a male body, and I am not a very fashionable person - my standard outfit tends to be jeans and tshirt (bought in the men's section, to boot).

She is unfortunately very masculine. Not too tall (180cm or so), very lean and fit (she's a runner), but very rectangular.

She doesn't want to spend too much on clothes she's likely not going to use very often or for very long. I'm in Brighton, UK, so I'm planning on taking her to Primark, possibly H&M and a couple other high street stores that are on the cheap end.

I'm planning on letting her try on some of my nicer, more feminine shirts - I do have some - so we can get an idea of how things look on her before we go out, but I feel the more information I have on this to begin with, the better. So:
  • What kind of clothes should we be looking for? She's probably going to be wanting to buy mostly tops, since she'll still be restricted to wearing trousers, but suggestions on bottoms would also be welcome.
  • She only has a very vague idea of her size in ladies', and wants to try things on before buying. I'm guessing, this being Brighton, this shouldn't be an issue (I would hope), but since this is the first time she's going to get to try feminine clothes on before buying, I want it to be as painless and non-awkward as possible. Should we be heading for the changing rooms in the ladies' departments, the men's, or it doesn't really matter?
Any help you can give, as well as pointers to anything I may not have thought about, would be extremely welcome.
posted by anonymous to Clothing, Beauty, & Fashion (13 answers total) 8 users marked this as a favorite
 
Does she have a style role model that she wants to emulate? Think, David Bowie, Prince, Tilda Swinton, Ellen DeGeneres, Sue Perkins, etc? These folks seem to blur the lines between masculine and feminine. Women's clothes are cut differently, might show off the collar bone more, for example. Can she make up a Pinterest board of looks that she is interested in?

I think one thing to change your perception on is this: "I know nothing about dressing a male body". She is a woman and her body is a woman's body. Women's bodies come in all shapes and sizes, and it sounds like hers may be a slender, athletic build, of which there are many great fashion options. Maybe add some women athletes to her Pinterest board that are pictures of them off the tennis court for some good ideas.
posted by jillithd at 6:39 AM on June 21, 2017 [21 favorites]


Art director with some fashion/wardrobe experience. PICTURES. As is, have her collect some pictures from magazines or online with an idea of general looks in mind. Otherwise, this is so wide open that you are both setting yourselves up to fail. I don't mean that harshly, but that unless you have an end goal, there's no way to judge whether you are heading in the right direction, or indeed whether you succeeded or failed in the end.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 7:26 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh, depending on age, Jaden Smith and Willow Smith might also be good role models as they like to blur gender lines as well.
posted by jillithd at 7:26 AM on June 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


When I was trying to figure out a slightly more androgynous style for myself, Pinterest and Tumblr were absolutely invaluable. You can find tons of photos of fashion bloggers or street style photos of people who actually wear those styles every day, rather than models who are just wearing them for a shoot. Given her criteria, 'androgynous fashion men' and 'transfeminine fashion' are a good starting point for searches.

For specific styles, there are a couple of approaches she can take. A good rule of thumb is to look for feminine cuts in masculine colors/patterns, or masculine cuts in feminine colors/patterns/fabrics. So a loose, drapey, gathered top in charcoal grey, say, or a button-down with a floral pattern. (Button-downs she might still need to buy in men's sizes, depending on her shoulder width.)

Here are some things to look for that signal "feminine" on clothes without being necessarily super overt:

Broad or deep necks
Straps, cropped sleeves, or 3/4 length sleeves
Loose/flowy in the torso area
Long (down to or past the crotch area) or cropped
Pin-tucks or gathering/draping
Thin, sheer, or shiny fabric

Also, I'd say go for slim-cut or skinny jeans/trousers if she normally wears baggier ones.

Because I had some time on my hands (and am actually about to embark on some wardrobe-building myself), I went through H&M and Primark's sites and pinned some tops that I think might work for the style she's going for. (Neither site seemed to have a ton of patterns or vivid colors, but the in-store selection might be different.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:14 AM on June 21, 2017 [10 favorites]


Also - it would help narrow things down if you could tell us her age and whether she's in school or works in an office or in a shop or etc.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:23 AM on June 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


When I was going for "androgynous" early in transition, I found that even just feminine t-shirts from Walmart, with a slight flare at the bottom of the shirt, made a world of difference. ++ if v-neck.

Those kinds of tops never got me read as "feminine", either.
posted by dwbrant at 9:05 AM on June 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


How about finding some women's cut trousers in neutral/dark colors? They won't read overtly femme (unless there is a ton of bling on the butt), but can get her into feeling comfortable.

I really like showbiz_liz's suggestions as well.

Best of luck!
posted by RhysPenbras at 9:35 AM on June 21, 2017


Ask her to set up a Pinterest account and pin photos that speak to the look she's going for.

Doesn't have to be Pinterest, of course, but it's worked well for me when I need to give someone an idea of the styles I'm interested in.
posted by bunderful at 11:09 AM on June 21, 2017


Seconding slim fit trousers! One of the main differences between men and women's clothing is that men's clothing is typically designed to give a boxy rectangular look, while women's clothing is either designed to accentuate curves or flow.

In the men's section, I would recommend looking for slim fit jeans in a dark wash. If you are looking in the ladies' section, I would recommend she look for straight cut or skinny. Since she is a runner, this will also bring out the natural form of her legs.

I would recommend pairing dark wash slim fit trousers with either a loose fitting ladies' v neck tee or with a loose button down blouse in either a tailored or loose fit. You'll probably want to look in the ladies' section for the blouse as there tends to be a little more versatility in design and material. One thing to get used to is that the buttons will be on the other side of the shirt.

To accessorize, I would add a scarf Scarves can be worn in a variety of ways and can feel very feminine while still passing for fashionable/modern masculine as required. A tailored blazer can also be pretty useful.

As a runner, she is in a good place for more tailored silhouettes, but I would definitely do most of your looking in the ladies' department as even slim fit men's shirts tend to be cut with stereotypically masculine chests in mind. I also highly recommend thrift shopping and a modern androgynous haircut with maybe some color.
posted by donut_princess at 12:36 PM on June 21, 2017


It's summer so there will be less selection but big fluffy or flowy scarves are great for this. Look for ones with linen in them that have a slightly loose weave, in bright or rich saturated colors. She can arrange them in a billowy fashion across her collarbones and shoulders to create almost a faux boatneck line, or drape them in folds down her chest to give a bit more volume and interest to her front without anything complicated. And if she needs to butch it up for emergency purposes she can tuck it around in a loose cravat style to make it look like menswear.

Button down shirts are something I as a busty lady am super envious of. She can wear them just fine. Most women's things button the opposite direction of men's, which is a silly holdover from the past, but the bonus for your sister is the simple act of buttoning up a shirt placket the other way will make her feel like these are her new clothes while nobody in her hometown will notice anything has changed at all. For femme touches look for shirts that have some darting in them along the torso, which will give her more of a waist, and shaped hems that are intended to be left untucked (so straight across or gently curved, not "shirt tail" shaped). Also cute but subtle patterns like tiny birds or stars or monochrome florals, if you can find them in her size.

Open cardigans with drape in the front but fitted sleeves can be read anywhere from "grad student who isn't currently smoking a pipe but probably will be later" to "mom on her way to picking up her kids from gymnastics practice" to "nonbinary person who likes to feel cozy". Again, summer, so this will be more difficult to find but you might find a great deal!

Try not to get wrapped up in any one idea of what she wants to look like down the line. Look for things that make her smile or feel comfortable right now. Clothes are temporary.
posted by Mizu at 1:38 PM on June 21, 2017


As well as the shops you propose, I would hit up Zara and (hear me out) maybe Gap. If you're feeling really flush, Cos are literally the walking epitome of beautiful clothes cut for androgynous bodies.

I would kill to have your sister's frame so I could do justice to the cut of Zara's clothes (tall, slim, european-types) though. Their stuff can lean towards the frou-frou but their tailored shirts + trousers/jeans might be a nice segue between her old style and finding her new.
posted by citands at 4:59 AM on June 22, 2017


I'm starting to dress a little more femme and am also a runner. I live in a fairly progressive city in the midwest United States, so some things that code as femme here might seem neutral in Europe, or at least that's what I've heard.

For tops, I have some trouble finding things in the women's section because I have really broad shoulders. Most things that are big enough are going to assume that XL also means having breasts. Femme looks that work well for me either have a decent stretch or drape. Too much structure is going to look baggy across the chest. I agree that deep v-necks or boat necks in shirts are a good start, both in t-shirts and in slightly nicer tops. Sleeve lengths that are between the two common men's lengths are also a good choice.

For pants (US definition) I've been mostly sticking to men's pants that have a slim fit and some stretch. That's showing up more and more in our fast fashion. I'm wearing Old Navy Skinny jeans today. I've been cuffing them up higher like a capri when I'm feeling a little more sassy. When I buy women's pants, I look to size charts online first and try to figure out the waist measurement. The hip one will likely just be too loose. Bright colors are bringing me a lot of joy. I'm also loving short shorts, but that might be too much for more conservative places. The horrible state of pockets in women's clothes is keeping me in men's jeans.

I've been wearing Tom's shoes a lot this summer. Before dressing femme, I rarely wore sneakers outside of actually working out, but some shoes like Chuck Taylors or Onizuka Tigers have helped me feel less male coded. Finding actual women's shoes in my size is challenging.

Statement jewelry is fun, but feels like a big step if I'm not in the most accepting neighborhoods.

Also, never discredit the psychological boost from great underwear.

When I want to try things on, I feel most comfortable in stores that also have a men's section and a single queue for fitting rooms. H&M, Old Navy, and Gap are like this around here. If I'm feeling super self-conscious, I grab a pair of jeans to bring in with me to be on the "outside" of the things I'm carrying. As mentioned above, I look at online size charts to get a feel for what might work. In bottoms, I use waist measurements since my hips are pretty much the same size. For tops, I just know it's probably going to be XL just to get my shoulders in. When I was first exploring femme clothes, I went through the super cheap second hand store and grabbed a bunch of things I could try on and maybe even alter at home for not much money knowing that if I liked even two or three things, it would be worth the $30 I spent.
posted by advicepig at 10:15 AM on June 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


Tops: Agree that shoulder width is going to be a limiting factor. She will wear a larger size than you expect just looking at her, and things that fit her in the chest and waist may be tight in the shoulders. When I shop at the femme end of the women's section, the tops that work for me are either (i) knit fabrics with a good deal of stretch, (ii) tops like flannel shirts that you'd normally wear unbuttoned at least partway, or (iii) very drapey tops that get their femme appearance from their neckline/hemline/sleeves and not from clinging tightly to the body. (This is after four years of HRT and plenty of breast growth, too, FWIW -- these are just the styles that work on my bone structure, and they look cute on me and make me happy so I wear them.)

My early-transition go-tos were sleeveless men's "wifebeater" undershirts (available in my size, 100% deniable, but more often worn as outerwear by women than by men in my neck of the woods), flannel shirts in more femme or adventurous colors (sometimes from the women's section, sometimes from the men's section at a hipper store), and men's T-shirts that I'd cut the neck out of to make a vaguely punky feminine neckline.

Another nice thing about tops is that you can try some of them on without undressing, either because you know your size or because they're meant to go over a t-shirt or undershirt, meaning no dressing room hassle.


Pants: (As you well know,) womens' pants are difficult. They're difficult for everyone, and they're especially difficult for people with nonstandard waist-to-hip ratios, long legs, and a lifetime of baggy straight-guy jeans behind them. Honestly, one approach is to switch to "men's" skinny jeans, which look more femme than the rectangular ones; or else "men's" bootcut jeans if you can find them, which last I checked had become kind of a mom look for women but which still have the same magical make-your-curves-look-just-a-little-bit-curvier effect they had back when they were cool. Even when I'm shopping in the women's section, I find mom jeans and Business Casual Adult Lady jeans work way better than more youthful-looking stuff. They're designed to look good on a wider range of body shapes, is my theory.


Dressing rooms and anxiety levels: If she's presenting as male still, the least stressful option will probably be to use men's changing rooms, or to go with you to a women's changing room to "help you try on" "your" women's clothing if that's a thing that stores in your area are cool with. But if she prefers to use the women's, odds are she'll be fine there too.

Another thing to keep in mind is that she may well be up for a lot less shopping than you expect. I was a few years into my transition before I could just go shopping for clothes and have a relaxing good time. Before then, it usually meant wrestling with anxiety and trauma and fear, and some days it was a big victory just to get myself into the store, try on one thing, and storm out again. Whatever she's up for, she'll appreciate your company and moral support.


Other stuff: Here in the US, getting your ears pierced at a mall earring store is A Teenage Girl Rite Of Passage, and I know a lot of early-transition trans women who have gotten a big kick out of doing it as adults.

She might find the whole thing less stressful if you're also shopping for some stuff for yourself. That makes it more of a relaxed shopping trip with a friend, and not A Mission which will either Succeed or Fail and it All Depends On Her.

Standard AMAB socialization teaches us to be very goal-oriented about clothes shopping, know exactly what we want, and get out as quickly as possible, and that approach just doesn't work when you're shopping in the women's section -- there are too many options, they change too quickly from year to year, and too many of them depend on fit and body type in unpredictable ways. So you might need to kind of explicitly teach her how to take the approach you may have learned unconsciously as a kid or teenager, where you wander through a bunch of stores and look at a lot of things and try on half a dozen; and where it counts as a successful trip if you do nothing but rule out a bunch of stuff that doesn't work, and a really successful trip if you buy one piece of clothing you'll actually wear and like. (This fits with the thing about shopping for yourself: if you can model for her how that attitude towards shopping looks, it'll be helpful. But even if you don't actually approach shopping for yourself that way -- plenty of cis women don't -- you can probably still give advice, because a cis woman who Isn't Good At Shopping still gets more of this sort of shopping skill drilled into her as a kid than the average pre-transition trans woman.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


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