Is friend's home safe to visit - they tore down a wall from 1967....
June 20, 2017 10:38 AM Subscribe
...without testing to see whether there was asbestos in it. Now I am afraid to go to their house. Should I be?
Our friends are in the middle of tearing down a wall in a house built in '67. This is in Canada, but I assume trends followed up here pretty closely match what builders where doing in the US during that period. I may be overdramatic in my freaking out, but we also just bought a house built in that year, have had many conversations with them about asbestos and likelihoods and the need for testing, they know the risks, and they have three small children. These are people who refuse to drink the city tap water. I just can't.... Anyhow this boils down to two questions:
Am I correct to believe that it is highly likely that wall had asbestos in it?
We visit at least every other week. At least. When is it safe to go to their house again?
Our friends are in the middle of tearing down a wall in a house built in '67. This is in Canada, but I assume trends followed up here pretty closely match what builders where doing in the US during that period. I may be overdramatic in my freaking out, but we also just bought a house built in that year, have had many conversations with them about asbestos and likelihoods and the need for testing, they know the risks, and they have three small children. These are people who refuse to drink the city tap water. I just can't.... Anyhow this boils down to two questions:
Am I correct to believe that it is highly likely that wall had asbestos in it?
We visit at least every other week. At least. When is it safe to go to their house again?
As long as they contain the area and thoroughly clean (ideally with proper HEPA filtered equipment), I can't imagine there being an issue with visiting. How long will you be there? Will your child be hanging out on the floor where the wall was removed? What span of time will have passed between the construction and your visit?
posted by amanda at 10:51 AM on June 20, 2017
posted by amanda at 10:51 AM on June 20, 2017
In my case I'd probably bring up my concerns, and can make a better decision once I've known if proper precautions were made.
posted by TrinsicWS at 10:57 AM on June 20, 2017
posted by TrinsicWS at 10:57 AM on June 20, 2017
Response by poster: As long as they contain the area and thoroughly clean (ideally with proper HEPA filtered equipment)
Doubtful, but I will ask them
How long will you be there?
We normally stay 2-3 hours
Will your child be hanging out on the floor where the wall was removed?
It's in the entranceway on the main floor. So...yes? We come in that way, the bathroom is right there, the kitchen a few metres away, dining room and living room a few more metres away..
posted by kitcat at 10:57 AM on June 20, 2017
Doubtful, but I will ask them
How long will you be there?
We normally stay 2-3 hours
Will your child be hanging out on the floor where the wall was removed?
It's in the entranceway on the main floor. So...yes? We come in that way, the bathroom is right there, the kitchen a few metres away, dining room and living room a few more metres away..
posted by kitcat at 10:57 AM on June 20, 2017
You can still get the air tested after the construction has taken place, if your friends are willing to do that.
posted by dilaudid at 11:18 AM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dilaudid at 11:18 AM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Am I correct to believe that it is highly likely that wall had asbestos in it?
If that's an interior wall, I'd rate it as "maybe possible" rather than "highly likely".
The main uses for asbestos in house construction, as far as I know, were in asbestos wool insulation and asbestos-reinforced cement (AC) sheet.
Insulation wool I would expect to find in a ceiling or exterior wall, not an interior wall. AC sheet might be found in wet areas such as bathrooms, in external wall cladding, or as roofing.
Of the two, only the wool is going to leave behind scary amounts of vicious fibres after the visible demolition dust has been cleaned up. AC sheet does let go of a certain amount of fibre if snapped or abraded, but nowhere near as much as the wool.
Ask them about what they found in their wall. If it was just a timber frame covered in lath and plaster or drywall, you're probably worrying for nothing.
posted by flabdablet at 12:14 PM on June 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
If that's an interior wall, I'd rate it as "maybe possible" rather than "highly likely".
The main uses for asbestos in house construction, as far as I know, were in asbestos wool insulation and asbestos-reinforced cement (AC) sheet.
Insulation wool I would expect to find in a ceiling or exterior wall, not an interior wall. AC sheet might be found in wet areas such as bathrooms, in external wall cladding, or as roofing.
Of the two, only the wool is going to leave behind scary amounts of vicious fibres after the visible demolition dust has been cleaned up. AC sheet does let go of a certain amount of fibre if snapped or abraded, but nowhere near as much as the wool.
Ask them about what they found in their wall. If it was just a timber frame covered in lath and plaster or drywall, you're probably worrying for nothing.
posted by flabdablet at 12:14 PM on June 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
What makes you think there was asbestos in the wall? Asbestos would have been used as pipe insulation, duct insulation, some kinds of floor tiles, blown-in attic insulation. It was also embedded in the plaster in some kinds of wallboard, but you would really have to pulverize that to liberate the asbestos fibers.
posted by beagle at 12:14 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by beagle at 12:14 PM on June 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nah, pass. Unlike smoke, asbestos fibers can get permanently lodged in your tissues. Even if you go, are you going to be able to relax and enjoy your visit?
Visit your friends after they've completely finished their construction and cleaned up. Or meet them elsewhere.
posted by zennie at 12:23 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Visit your friends after they've completely finished their construction and cleaned up. Or meet them elsewhere.
posted by zennie at 12:23 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Did they remove it themselves, or hire a company? Friends have had entire crews pack up and leave at the very sight of anything that might be asbestos and refuse to continue work until it was tested.
Asbestos isn't discretely hidden, it's usually pretty obvious when it's in there if you have any experience with it.
posted by Dynex at 12:23 PM on June 20, 2017
Asbestos isn't discretely hidden, it's usually pretty obvious when it's in there if you have any experience with it.
posted by Dynex at 12:23 PM on June 20, 2017
Response by poster: Sorry to threadsit; I'll stop after this. I'm worried about insulation and plaster - thanks for addressing that above. Nope, no crew. I'm thinking sledgehammer to the wall. I'll find out, but I don't want to ask right at this moment; I've already let them know today I'm kind of shocked and won't be visiting within the next couple of weeks. I'm sure the husband won't know if he sees it and we've had arguments; he just doesn't believe it's a big deal.
posted by kitcat at 12:28 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by kitcat at 12:28 PM on June 20, 2017
Oh, and it's not really me I'm concerned about - I'm a freaking smoker.
For the record, as a smoker, you are at MUCH higher risk of asbestos-related diseases than any non-smoker, even your 6 year old. "Many studies have shown that the combination of smoking and asbestos exposure is particularly hazardous. Smokers who are also exposed to asbestos have a risk of developing lung cancer that is greater than the individual risks from asbestos and smoking added together." (Asbestos Fact Sheet) I knew a doctor who went so far as to say that non-smokers shouldn't worry about asbestos exposure, period, whereas smokers really should.
I think flabdablet's take on the risk is about right; I would lean more toward "possible concern" than "highly likely problem." But I guess especially as a smoker, I'd urge caution if they're in the middle of demolition. Once the new construction is sealed up and visible dust is removed, that's about as safe as you can get in a 1967 house.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 12:46 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
For the record, as a smoker, you are at MUCH higher risk of asbestos-related diseases than any non-smoker, even your 6 year old. "Many studies have shown that the combination of smoking and asbestos exposure is particularly hazardous. Smokers who are also exposed to asbestos have a risk of developing lung cancer that is greater than the individual risks from asbestos and smoking added together." (Asbestos Fact Sheet) I knew a doctor who went so far as to say that non-smokers shouldn't worry about asbestos exposure, period, whereas smokers really should.
I think flabdablet's take on the risk is about right; I would lean more toward "possible concern" than "highly likely problem." But I guess especially as a smoker, I'd urge caution if they're in the middle of demolition. Once the new construction is sealed up and visible dust is removed, that's about as safe as you can get in a 1967 house.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 12:46 PM on June 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
he just doesn't believe it's a big deal.
Ouch.... it's not like concerns about asbestos are something brand-new: it's been banned from new-home construction and the removal difficulties talked to death for years now. And he's doing the work himself, as a DIY homeowner project? That means that unless he's also a licensed contractor, no, the containment and cleaning standards are very definitely not being met.
Okay, deep breath. Since they're your friends, how about saying you're not going in there for, say, at least six months after he's finished all remodeling work, both demolition and construction? That should give plenty of time for any dust (asbestos or otherwise) to settle, and plenty of passes to vaccumn stuff up.
Here's a whole extra something to worry about though: since your friend is so cavalier about asbestos, how does he feel about load-bearing walls, and would he recognize one when he sees it?!?
posted by easily confused at 1:27 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ouch.... it's not like concerns about asbestos are something brand-new: it's been banned from new-home construction and the removal difficulties talked to death for years now. And he's doing the work himself, as a DIY homeowner project? That means that unless he's also a licensed contractor, no, the containment and cleaning standards are very definitely not being met.
Okay, deep breath. Since they're your friends, how about saying you're not going in there for, say, at least six months after he's finished all remodeling work, both demolition and construction? That should give plenty of time for any dust (asbestos or otherwise) to settle, and plenty of passes to vaccumn stuff up.
Here's a whole extra something to worry about though: since your friend is so cavalier about asbestos, how does he feel about load-bearing walls, and would he recognize one when he sees it?!?
posted by easily confused at 1:27 PM on June 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've worked as a plumber on a remodel of a building from that era. It's true that pipe insulation asbestos is the worst and scariest. But we also had to hire an asbestos abatement contractor to cut the walls for us because the mud or something from the sheetrock tested positive for small (and not OSHA-approved) amounts of asbestos in it. So yeah, asbestos in wall materials is a possibility. And friable asbestos will hang in the air for a very long time. You don't know whether it's friable or non-friable until it's tested. And even though the stuff in our building walls was non-friable, we were still required to abate it.
Personally, I'd use an abundance of caution and maybe ask them to get their air/surfaces tested.
posted by cnidaria at 2:51 PM on June 20, 2017
Personally, I'd use an abundance of caution and maybe ask them to get their air/surfaces tested.
posted by cnidaria at 2:51 PM on June 20, 2017
Asbestos testing isn't that hard. If the difference between you never visiting your friends again because you don't have peace of mind and $30 per sample, I'd err on the side of going by, asking to do your friends a favor by getting the wall materials tested for them, and send it in.
posted by Karaage at 6:41 PM on June 20, 2017
posted by Karaage at 6:41 PM on June 20, 2017
Response by poster: I have an important update. We had an interior wall that we were hoping to knock down tested. 1967 home. It is positive for asbestos in the drywall. Be careful people. And it's petty but now I feel incredibly smug because my friends are mad at us for our response to their renovation
posted by kitcat at 3:10 PM on July 6, 2017
posted by kitcat at 3:10 PM on July 6, 2017
It is positive for asbestos in the drywall.
I'm in Australia; "drywall" is not a word we use here. Could you point me to a picture of the wall material in which the asbestos was found?
posted by flabdablet at 8:37 PM on July 6, 2017
I'm in Australia; "drywall" is not a word we use here. Could you point me to a picture of the wall material in which the asbestos was found?
posted by flabdablet at 8:37 PM on July 6, 2017
Response by poster: I'm not sure myself what is really meant by 'drywall', but this is pretty much exactly what the inside of the wall looks like. here. I think they mixed it into the gypsum? It's the chrysotile type and I think they mixed it in for better strength, insulation and fire retardant properties. I'll try to get you a pic of our wall.
posted by kitcat at 9:14 AM on July 11, 2017
posted by kitcat at 9:14 AM on July 11, 2017
Response by poster: Oh, and just to provide more info, we had two carpets tested and two kinds of linoleum in the house. They were clear. The cost of this testing was $500, about $100 per sample, and they had the results in two days.
posted by kitcat at 9:24 AM on July 11, 2017
posted by kitcat at 9:24 AM on July 11, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by kitcat at 10:39 AM on June 20, 2017