[Renting Filter] Am I being fleeced?
June 2, 2017 6:32 PM Subscribe
YANML, but I made a stupid awful mistake and need to know what to expect. I applied for an apartment through a shady agency that made me give them checks for broker fee, first month, and security deposit while applying, without showing me the lease. I was in a rush while filling the application (mainly because I was being rushed by them, but also because I am stupid), and didn't notice that I agreed to forego the broker fee (one month rent) and potentially the security deposit if I didn't sign the lease after being approved!
Now I have the lease document, and it's raising red flags, to the extent that I wouldn't take the place if I had a choice, but I'm being pressured to sign it within a few hours. The documents I signed didn't stipulate a deadline for the lease signing, though.
1. Is there any way I can back out of the lease now and only lose the broker fee? It says the security deposit may be withheld to cover damages if I withdraw.
2. Can they take my money and run if I don't sign the lease in a few hours? I am happy to sign it as long as I can clarify or negotiate some terms.
3. They asked me to postdate the check for the security deposit, and the application specified a later pay date for the deposit as well, but now they're trying to cash it. Do I have any power to stop them?
I'm in Massachusetts. Somehow avoided being scammed all these years of renting. Any other tips for dealing with this situation would be great too. I'll happily give up the place if I can lose only the broker fee, but otherwise, it's too much of a sunk cost.
Now I have the lease document, and it's raising red flags, to the extent that I wouldn't take the place if I had a choice, but I'm being pressured to sign it within a few hours. The documents I signed didn't stipulate a deadline for the lease signing, though.
1. Is there any way I can back out of the lease now and only lose the broker fee? It says the security deposit may be withheld to cover damages if I withdraw.
2. Can they take my money and run if I don't sign the lease in a few hours? I am happy to sign it as long as I can clarify or negotiate some terms.
3. They asked me to postdate the check for the security deposit, and the application specified a later pay date for the deposit as well, but now they're trying to cash it. Do I have any power to stop them?
I'm in Massachusetts. Somehow avoided being scammed all these years of renting. Any other tips for dealing with this situation would be great too. I'll happily give up the place if I can lose only the broker fee, but otherwise, it's too much of a sunk cost.
Ugh. You must have seen this, but if not: Mass Landlord and Tenant Law. I don't think they can legally take your security deposit as it can only be used to cover damages to the property.
I have rented from many landlords in Mass, and I have often had them alter the lease agreement on the spot (usually to specify that I have cats). If they won't alter anything reasonable, I wouldn't rent from them. Sounds potentially nightmarish.
Personally I'd stop payment on those checks and tell them to f themselves.
posted by clone boulevard at 7:18 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have rented from many landlords in Mass, and I have often had them alter the lease agreement on the spot (usually to specify that I have cats). If they won't alter anything reasonable, I wouldn't rent from them. Sounds potentially nightmarish.
Personally I'd stop payment on those checks and tell them to f themselves.
posted by clone boulevard at 7:18 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
I meant to add this link, too: Mass Tenants Rights. Massachusetts has pretty strong tenants rights, so be sure you're not being abused.
posted by clone boulevard at 7:20 PM on June 2, 2017
posted by clone boulevard at 7:20 PM on June 2, 2017
Response by poster: Follow up question (sorry): I also gave them the first month's rent. Can they withhold that if I contest the security deposit? The exact wording is "reserves the right to hold deposits as damages if the applicants withdraw".
posted by redlines at 7:25 PM on June 2, 2017
posted by redlines at 7:25 PM on June 2, 2017
So a thing that is really helpful to know and I learned the hard way: they can put whatever they want in a contract, but that doesn't mean all of the contract is legally enforceable. So if that landlord-tenant law says a landlord can't do X, it doesn't matter if the contract says they can do X. X is still illegal.
posted by corb at 8:18 PM on June 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:18 PM on June 2, 2017 [11 favorites]
Call your bank and stop all payment on all checks if you do not want the apartment.
Do you want the apartment? Can you get the lease altered?
Likely they will try and keep your money and put you into another apartment if this one doesn't work out, but everyone is saying the same thing, to stop payment BEFORE they take any money out of your account.
Consult with your bank who provides fraud protection, consult with a lawyer if you need to. If you want the apartment and this is just the awful people you have to go through to get it, fine. I'm just not sure you have a real deal, have been accepted by the landlord. It's hard to tell over the internet! The worst they can do is sell your "debt" to a debt collection agency if you cancel the physical checks, and that would not be hard to fight, especially if you report them to the state (because they are licensed) and your bank.
You know better than us, what do you think you have evidence of?
posted by jbenben at 8:56 PM on June 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Do you want the apartment? Can you get the lease altered?
Likely they will try and keep your money and put you into another apartment if this one doesn't work out, but everyone is saying the same thing, to stop payment BEFORE they take any money out of your account.
Consult with your bank who provides fraud protection, consult with a lawyer if you need to. If you want the apartment and this is just the awful people you have to go through to get it, fine. I'm just not sure you have a real deal, have been accepted by the landlord. It's hard to tell over the internet! The worst they can do is sell your "debt" to a debt collection agency if you cancel the physical checks, and that would not be hard to fight, especially if you report them to the state (because they are licensed) and your bank.
You know better than us, what do you think you have evidence of?
posted by jbenben at 8:56 PM on June 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
In addition to all the good advice above - when I lived in MA, the Attorney General's office had a whole team dedicated to consumer protection. You might try contacting them as well.
posted by lunasol at 9:53 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by lunasol at 9:53 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's right! They do have a really really good consumer helpline! Also, I think you can put a "hold" on the checks through your bank instead of canceling the checks. This might buy you some time until you can clarify your legal position. Call your bank and ask them. Good luck!
posted by jbenben at 9:56 PM on June 2, 2017
posted by jbenben at 9:56 PM on June 2, 2017
Technically, those provisions are called "liquidated damages," and they are BS, largely unenforceable (the security deposit provision is illegal per se, as noted above). However, prying your money out of people's hands once you give it to them can be challenging. It's worth trying to stop the checks. I'm not sure how much PIAC actually gets involved in simple landlord-tenant disputes, but, if the checks end up going through, it won't cost you anything but a phone call to ask.
Not to kick you when you're down, but you blew through multiple red flags here, so I hope this can at least be a learning experience for you: (1) any time anyone is trying to rush you into signing something, don't, and seriously reconsider entering into the relationship altogether; (2) don't sign documents you haven't read or don't understand; (3) don't hand over thousands of dollars (I assume, given MA rents) to people on the basis of yet other agreements you haven't yet read; (4) if someone is asking you for lots more money than you usually pay, that's a bad sign; and (5) people asking you for post-dated checks are presumptively shady.
posted by praemunire at 11:05 PM on June 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Not to kick you when you're down, but you blew through multiple red flags here, so I hope this can at least be a learning experience for you: (1) any time anyone is trying to rush you into signing something, don't, and seriously reconsider entering into the relationship altogether; (2) don't sign documents you haven't read or don't understand; (3) don't hand over thousands of dollars (I assume, given MA rents) to people on the basis of yet other agreements you haven't yet read; (4) if someone is asking you for lots more money than you usually pay, that's a bad sign; and (5) people asking you for post-dated checks are presumptively shady.
posted by praemunire at 11:05 PM on June 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wow that's rough. Welcome to the Boston renter's market. I used to be there, and over 15 years I have:
1. been kicked out of an apartment when Mrs. Sol was 7 months pregnant, and there was lead paint landlord didn't want to deal with
2. sued a shady broker to get back a rent deposit, and hired a sheriff to bring him to court in handcuffs
3. backed out of an apartment just before signing, and made a handshake deal with the broker for 1/2 the deposit
4. sued a former landlord for improper handling of security deposit, and got 3x damages back
So what you are dealing with is not that strange. I have some advice that is contrary to what others have said.
First - do you like the place and is the rent and location good? Then I say just sign it. Good apartments are very hard to come by. The bad parts of the lease will be unenforceable and will not hold up in court. After signing you will probably never hear from this broker again - they will spend their time on fleecing other folks. Your main interaction will be with your landlord, and most landlords in Boston want the least amount of interaction with tenants as they can.
Second, be careful about canceling checks. They probably won't sue you but a check is a legal promise, and you can be sued for sending a bad check. Just be careful.
Third, you should probably kiss that broker's fee goodbye. The laws protect payments between landlord and tenant (first, last, security) but the broker's fee is a deal between you and the broker. As it is a finder's fee, and they did find you a place, they did their job. I have paid 1/2 a finders fee on an apartment that I didn't take. The broker did a good job, and yes they probably got another finder's fee from another tenant when they did rent the place, but it wasn't his fault that I found a better place the next day.
Last, search the MA general laws for "unfair and deceptive business practices" "30-day demand letter" and "treble damages" that's where you'll find most of the good language if you need to back out and write a scary letter.
posted by sol at 5:23 AM on June 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
1. been kicked out of an apartment when Mrs. Sol was 7 months pregnant, and there was lead paint landlord didn't want to deal with
2. sued a shady broker to get back a rent deposit, and hired a sheriff to bring him to court in handcuffs
3. backed out of an apartment just before signing, and made a handshake deal with the broker for 1/2 the deposit
4. sued a former landlord for improper handling of security deposit, and got 3x damages back
So what you are dealing with is not that strange. I have some advice that is contrary to what others have said.
First - do you like the place and is the rent and location good? Then I say just sign it. Good apartments are very hard to come by. The bad parts of the lease will be unenforceable and will not hold up in court. After signing you will probably never hear from this broker again - they will spend their time on fleecing other folks. Your main interaction will be with your landlord, and most landlords in Boston want the least amount of interaction with tenants as they can.
Second, be careful about canceling checks. They probably won't sue you but a check is a legal promise, and you can be sued for sending a bad check. Just be careful.
Third, you should probably kiss that broker's fee goodbye. The laws protect payments between landlord and tenant (first, last, security) but the broker's fee is a deal between you and the broker. As it is a finder's fee, and they did find you a place, they did their job. I have paid 1/2 a finders fee on an apartment that I didn't take. The broker did a good job, and yes they probably got another finder's fee from another tenant when they did rent the place, but it wasn't his fault that I found a better place the next day.
Last, search the MA general laws for "unfair and deceptive business practices" "30-day demand letter" and "treble damages" that's where you'll find most of the good language if you need to back out and write a scary letter.
posted by sol at 5:23 AM on June 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
They probably won't sue you but a check is a legal promise, and you can be sued for sending a bad check
This is not a bad check (and a check is not really a legal promise, either, but that's neither here nor there). There are presumably funds sufficient to cover the check in the account, and, at the time of writing the check, OP intended to honor it.
As it is a finder's fee, and they did find you a place,
But they didn't, not necessarily. The law on this is kind of complicated and varies by state, but a broker can't just offer anything to the client and claim the fee.
posted by praemunire at 11:20 AM on June 3, 2017
This is not a bad check (and a check is not really a legal promise, either, but that's neither here nor there). There are presumably funds sufficient to cover the check in the account, and, at the time of writing the check, OP intended to honor it.
As it is a finder's fee, and they did find you a place,
But they didn't, not necessarily. The law on this is kind of complicated and varies by state, but a broker can't just offer anything to the client and claim the fee.
posted by praemunire at 11:20 AM on June 3, 2017
If they're calling you to hustle you to sign the lease, tell them that you're still going over it and will get back to them on Monday, optionally telling them that you have to wait until Monday for your lawyer to be available. They aren't going to say "oh, then we'll rent it to someone else," because then their attempt to cash one of your checks will get them in hot water. Then again, if they give you all of your checks back and rent to someone else, then you're free and clear.
posted by rhizome at 12:25 PM on June 3, 2017
posted by rhizome at 12:25 PM on June 3, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'm inclined to tell you to contact your bank to cancel the checks they are prematurely trying to cash. After that they will likely sell your debt to a collection agency.
I think you should talk to legal aid, but your first stop is the bank to cancel those checks. See if you can report them for fraud?
Some people here know Massachusetts tenant laws well, but in the meantime stop the money from coming out of your account. You can always write a new check, harder to get the money back.
And it's a Friday. Man, are they good at fleecing people.
posted by jbenben at 6:55 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]