How should I deal with political arguments between husband and our son?
June 2, 2017 3:57 PM Subscribe
tl;dr: My husband and adult son argue about politics fairly frequently, on facebook, and it is having a serious negative affect on their relationship. I would like my husband to diffuse the situation by just not engaging in these discussions, but I can also see where this is not my business. What to do??
My husband and our son, a young adult who lives and works in another state, often argue/discuss politics on facebook, in a private family group that is just the immediate family (my husband, this son, our daughter, and myself). It is plain as day to me that their disagreements are rupturing their relationship. Despite this having happened before with my brother, I believe my husband does not see any problem, and so will not disengage.
We're not talking about a Trump/Hillary split here. Rather, our son was a Bernie supporter, but voted for Hillary in the election. My husband was a Hillary supporter, and voted accordingly. Son is very bitter, though, that Hillary lost, and blames her and her campaign for the loss. Husband still supports Hillary, and gets into disputes on facebook with our son about this. It is very clear that the things that my husband is saying are causing our son to lose all respect for him.
I see both their points of view, and try not to get involved in their arguments. It's not the substance of their dispute that bothers me. It's that I have seen this kind of thing go very wrong before, with my brother, and I worry it will happen again with our son.
With my brother, the politics were different. He is very liberal socially. (He was a pot-smoking, acid-dropping musician in his youth, and that is still true today, minus the acid-dropping). But he is nevertheless very conservative in some areas, notably foreign policy (he completely supported the war in Iraq) and economic policy (for example, he opposes Obamacare). I honestly don't know if he voted for Trump, although I would not be surprised. He did not vote for Obama, I am sure.
In any case, years ago (before the 2016 election season), my husband and brother would argue a lot on facebook about politics. My husband was forever saying (to me) that he thought he was winning my brother over. I would read their facebook discussions, and please believe me, nothing could have been further from the truth. It was very obvious to me that there was zero chance either would convince the other.
But beyond that, the discussion got very acrimonious, until my brother finally blocked my husband on facebook. We have lost all contact with my brother, and I realized recently that he blocked me as well, sometime in the last few months. (That surprised me, but whatever.)
In any case, I foresee the same thing happening with our son, and I would hate that. (I am unhappy enough that my husband let things get to that point with my brother, despite my asking him many times just to not engage with my brother about politics.)
I can easily see that this is none of my business, and I should stay out of it. But I also hate watching their relationship deteriorate this way. I know from past experience with my husband that he will not see my point, if I bring it up -- he will not agree that there even is a problem. He sees it as just friendly disagreements. There is such a thing, of course, but it's not happening here.
So -- any suggestions on what I should/should not do in the face of this bad situation? Should I let them work it out (or not work it out, as the case may be), given that they are both adults? Or should I try to urge my husband to just not get involved in these political discussions with our son?
My husband and our son, a young adult who lives and works in another state, often argue/discuss politics on facebook, in a private family group that is just the immediate family (my husband, this son, our daughter, and myself). It is plain as day to me that their disagreements are rupturing their relationship. Despite this having happened before with my brother, I believe my husband does not see any problem, and so will not disengage.
We're not talking about a Trump/Hillary split here. Rather, our son was a Bernie supporter, but voted for Hillary in the election. My husband was a Hillary supporter, and voted accordingly. Son is very bitter, though, that Hillary lost, and blames her and her campaign for the loss. Husband still supports Hillary, and gets into disputes on facebook with our son about this. It is very clear that the things that my husband is saying are causing our son to lose all respect for him.
I see both their points of view, and try not to get involved in their arguments. It's not the substance of their dispute that bothers me. It's that I have seen this kind of thing go very wrong before, with my brother, and I worry it will happen again with our son.
With my brother, the politics were different. He is very liberal socially. (He was a pot-smoking, acid-dropping musician in his youth, and that is still true today, minus the acid-dropping). But he is nevertheless very conservative in some areas, notably foreign policy (he completely supported the war in Iraq) and economic policy (for example, he opposes Obamacare). I honestly don't know if he voted for Trump, although I would not be surprised. He did not vote for Obama, I am sure.
In any case, years ago (before the 2016 election season), my husband and brother would argue a lot on facebook about politics. My husband was forever saying (to me) that he thought he was winning my brother over. I would read their facebook discussions, and please believe me, nothing could have been further from the truth. It was very obvious to me that there was zero chance either would convince the other.
But beyond that, the discussion got very acrimonious, until my brother finally blocked my husband on facebook. We have lost all contact with my brother, and I realized recently that he blocked me as well, sometime in the last few months. (That surprised me, but whatever.)
In any case, I foresee the same thing happening with our son, and I would hate that. (I am unhappy enough that my husband let things get to that point with my brother, despite my asking him many times just to not engage with my brother about politics.)
I can easily see that this is none of my business, and I should stay out of it. But I also hate watching their relationship deteriorate this way. I know from past experience with my husband that he will not see my point, if I bring it up -- he will not agree that there even is a problem. He sees it as just friendly disagreements. There is such a thing, of course, but it's not happening here.
So -- any suggestions on what I should/should not do in the face of this bad situation? Should I let them work it out (or not work it out, as the case may be), given that they are both adults? Or should I try to urge my husband to just not get involved in these political discussions with our son?
ask them both, separately, to please stop getting into political arguments with each other, citing your brother as evidence that this leads only to broken relationships and changes no minds.
I mean, it is your business, it's your husband and son, but ultimately this will only change if one of them decides it's just not worth it anymore and sticks to not instigating or perpetuating these arguments. all you can do is make the best case you can that it's okay for them to not be on the same page here, and that fighting about it isn't doing anyone any good.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:15 PM on June 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mean, it is your business, it's your husband and son, but ultimately this will only change if one of them decides it's just not worth it anymore and sticks to not instigating or perpetuating these arguments. all you can do is make the best case you can that it's okay for them to not be on the same page here, and that fighting about it isn't doing anyone any good.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:15 PM on June 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
You need to bring your husband to heel ASAP. He killed your relationship with your brother - for what? For feeling noble or right on Facebook?! Don't let him do it to your relationship with your son.
What you should do is shut down the Facebook group. It is a terrible forum. I heard somewhere this witticism: Twitter lets you feel connected to people you've never met, and Facebook will make you hate people you've loved your whole life. You can share photos, plans etc using email, when your group is so small.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:15 PM on June 2, 2017 [53 favorites]
What you should do is shut down the Facebook group. It is a terrible forum. I heard somewhere this witticism: Twitter lets you feel connected to people you've never met, and Facebook will make you hate people you've loved your whole life. You can share photos, plans etc using email, when your group is so small.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:15 PM on June 2, 2017 [53 favorites]
It is very clear that the things that my husband is saying are causing our son to lose all respect for him.
...I'm sure we all know people who are capable of being jerks at the same time as they're being right, but it is hard for me to understand how simply holding this position could lose him anyone's respect. and yes, I have followed the heated arguments on the same subject on this site, and I still think that. are there personal insults and nasty language coming from your husband, in addition to differing opinions? because if not, he won't take this risk seriously when you explain it, because it won't make sense to him.
if your husband goes around starting shit when nobody else does, he should stop, and you can tell him so. but if your son likes arguing, too, but can't cope with not convincing the other person, he's the one who should stop. but...it's not your responsibility to stop either of them. Try one time to tell them both to fight the real enemy, Sinead O'Connor-style, and then give up. Your husband does not sound like a man who has these dumb arguments all by himself; your son can just disengage if this is happening on social media and not in a real room in real time.
and your brother may have had good reason to block your husband, but not you, if you weren't part of the arguing -- your husband is not to blame if other people treat you as his accessory when you're not. he sounds really good at finding hot-tempered people to argue with, people who are equal participants in whatever keeps happening.
I think you should block both of them, so that they can't keep making it your problem. don't humor your husband by listening if he wants to recap the arguments to you, and trust your son not to take out his dad-mad on you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:36 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
...I'm sure we all know people who are capable of being jerks at the same time as they're being right, but it is hard for me to understand how simply holding this position could lose him anyone's respect. and yes, I have followed the heated arguments on the same subject on this site, and I still think that. are there personal insults and nasty language coming from your husband, in addition to differing opinions? because if not, he won't take this risk seriously when you explain it, because it won't make sense to him.
if your husband goes around starting shit when nobody else does, he should stop, and you can tell him so. but if your son likes arguing, too, but can't cope with not convincing the other person, he's the one who should stop. but...it's not your responsibility to stop either of them. Try one time to tell them both to fight the real enemy, Sinead O'Connor-style, and then give up. Your husband does not sound like a man who has these dumb arguments all by himself; your son can just disengage if this is happening on social media and not in a real room in real time.
and your brother may have had good reason to block your husband, but not you, if you weren't part of the arguing -- your husband is not to blame if other people treat you as his accessory when you're not. he sounds really good at finding hot-tempered people to argue with, people who are equal participants in whatever keeps happening.
I think you should block both of them, so that they can't keep making it your problem. don't humor your husband by listening if he wants to recap the arguments to you, and trust your son not to take out his dad-mad on you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:36 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
If it's happening in your family discussion group, of which you are a member, it's totally not none of your business.
Maybe it would help to make a "no politics" rule for the group, and ask them to take that discussion elsewhere. Maybe if it's not quite so convenient for them to carry the argument on, they'll be less likely to keep it going.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:57 PM on June 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Maybe it would help to make a "no politics" rule for the group, and ask them to take that discussion elsewhere. Maybe if it's not quite so convenient for them to carry the argument on, they'll be less likely to keep it going.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:57 PM on June 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Social media is a vehicle for conflicts like this. Ask your son to "unfollow but stay friends with" his dad on Facebook and vice versa.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:57 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:57 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Since they seem to be on somewhat the same page (or at least the same book) maybe you could try to suggest that they should work together by channeling their frustrations and help your local democratic party prepare for the 2018 elections.
posted by littlesq at 4:59 PM on June 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by littlesq at 4:59 PM on June 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Your husband did not understand how what he said to your brother ended not only his relationship with his brother but also your relationship with your brother. (And I assume he never took steps to rectify the situation he caused). Your husband also does not see how what he is saying to your son is fracturing his relationship with his own son. Your husband also does not listen to you express your concerns over his (lack of) communication skills. There is a pattern here that will need professional help (since he has already written off you as anybody worthy of respect and will not accept any help from you). I hope he can take the situation seriously.
Meanwhile, build up your own support network and strengthen your own independent relationship with both your son and daughter away from your husband's toxic communication skills. It was bad enough that your husband took advantage of the relationship you used to have with your brother, but that he is now using his power as a father to "debate" his son in a political dick-measuring contest is gross.
posted by saucysault at 5:22 PM on June 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
Meanwhile, build up your own support network and strengthen your own independent relationship with both your son and daughter away from your husband's toxic communication skills. It was bad enough that your husband took advantage of the relationship you used to have with your brother, but that he is now using his power as a father to "debate" his son in a political dick-measuring contest is gross.
posted by saucysault at 5:22 PM on June 2, 2017 [16 favorites]
This is not about politics. This is about an unwillingness to accept another person's autonomy. He is arguing without listening, which is destructive to the rapport people have. It is bullying behavior, even if he's pushing for politics you agree with.
This is happening in a public space and your son and brother know that you see it and don't speak up. You refuse to moderate a safe space for them to not be attacked. While you shouldn't control your husband, the fact that this is acceptable shows that something is unhealthy in the family dynamic.
My dad does this. And right now we're not speaking. My mom because she insists that he doesn't mean any harm and I'm causing the drama by creating boundaries. Until she can recognize my boundaries as healthy and validate my feelings that I deserve better treatment, we're also not speaking. While their treatment of me is not equivalent (because I hate when people put the emotional responsibility on women), neither are healthy relationships I can have right now.
posted by politikitty at 5:22 PM on June 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is happening in a public space and your son and brother know that you see it and don't speak up. You refuse to moderate a safe space for them to not be attacked. While you shouldn't control your husband, the fact that this is acceptable shows that something is unhealthy in the family dynamic.
My dad does this. And right now we're not speaking. My mom because she insists that he doesn't mean any harm and I'm causing the drama by creating boundaries. Until she can recognize my boundaries as healthy and validate my feelings that I deserve better treatment, we're also not speaking. While their treatment of me is not equivalent (because I hate when people put the emotional responsibility on women), neither are healthy relationships I can have right now.
posted by politikitty at 5:22 PM on June 2, 2017 [15 favorites]
Both men need to unlearn the masculinity trope that arguing is fun and wins people and is an appropriate form of discourse. Personally I'd let them both have it, block them both on facebook for their performative bullshit which I would make clear was unacceptable as a factor in my life, so get it together or understand there's going to be consequences in their relationships to you, and suggest therapy for both of them.
This is bullshit and you are allowed to say it is bullshit.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:35 PM on June 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is bullshit and you are allowed to say it is bullshit.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:35 PM on June 2, 2017 [9 favorites]
What was their relationship like when he lived at home? I can't believe this is really about politics except superficially.
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:40 PM on June 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:40 PM on June 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Definitely shut down the Facebook group now and use other ways to keep in touch with your kids regularly (email, Skype, texting). If your son and husband want to continue having these discussions it's up to them and you don't have to provide a venue to make it easier or be an audience to it. Find other ways to connect that he can't interfere with.
Your husband also needs to stop doing this because it's harmful and damages your relationships.
posted by sacchan at 6:42 PM on June 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
Your husband also needs to stop doing this because it's harmful and damages your relationships.
posted by sacchan at 6:42 PM on June 2, 2017 [6 favorites]
But beyond that, the discussion got very acrimonious, until my brother finally blocked my husband on facebook. We have lost all contact with my brother, and I realized recently that he blocked me as well, sometime in the last few months. (That surprised me, but whatever.)
This strikes me as an awfully passive way to view your relationship with your brother. Did you really just shrug this away? Are you uninterested in continuing to know him? Have you tried opening a dialog with your brother and having a separate sibling relationship not involving your husband?
Because what if your husband doesn't figure out how to lay off your son? Are you willing to shrug away your relationship with your son? You need a plan for your own relationship with your son because unfortunately we can't always make everyone around us get along.
I don't buy that it's not your business. It's affecting you fairly directly, so yeah it's your business. I think it would be a good idea to have a serious talk with husband that it is important to you that this argument stop. That it's upetting you to think a moot political argument might cause real consequences for your family. Maybe also talk to son, but really your husband sounds like he's the one who needs to stop... just because you want him to, and just because it's important to you. Hillary will survive without his defense. She's good that way.
And then, if it continued, I would probably try going on the social media site where they are having an argument and yell: YOU NEED TO LAY OFF THIS TOPIC NOW. And if it happens again, try one more time: I'M SERIOUS. STOP ARGUING ABOUT THIS. I DON'T CARE WHO'S RIGHT.
After that it's marriage counseling time, because WTF husband?
posted by zennie at 6:50 PM on June 2, 2017 [21 favorites]
This strikes me as an awfully passive way to view your relationship with your brother. Did you really just shrug this away? Are you uninterested in continuing to know him? Have you tried opening a dialog with your brother and having a separate sibling relationship not involving your husband?
Because what if your husband doesn't figure out how to lay off your son? Are you willing to shrug away your relationship with your son? You need a plan for your own relationship with your son because unfortunately we can't always make everyone around us get along.
I don't buy that it's not your business. It's affecting you fairly directly, so yeah it's your business. I think it would be a good idea to have a serious talk with husband that it is important to you that this argument stop. That it's upetting you to think a moot political argument might cause real consequences for your family. Maybe also talk to son, but really your husband sounds like he's the one who needs to stop... just because you want him to, and just because it's important to you. Hillary will survive without his defense. She's good that way.
And then, if it continued, I would probably try going on the social media site where they are having an argument and yell: YOU NEED TO LAY OFF THIS TOPIC NOW. And if it happens again, try one more time: I'M SERIOUS. STOP ARGUING ABOUT THIS. I DON'T CARE WHO'S RIGHT.
After that it's marriage counseling time, because WTF husband?
posted by zennie at 6:50 PM on June 2, 2017 [21 favorites]
They're posting in a group, which means they're forcing you and your daughter to read their arguments. I would talk to your daughter about how she feels about that. Assuming she's also uncomfortable, you need to make a "no politics" rule for the group. If they won't follow that, I would leave the group (and tell your daughter to) or, better yet, close it. Other family discussions can take place on text or email; Facebook isn't mandatory. I think it would also be helpful to reach out to your son and tell him you recognize the tension, your worried about his feelings, and that you love him regardless of any politics. It's possible he doesn't feel empowered to change the subject with his dad. Let him know you support him.
I doubt there's much you can do to change your husband's terrible communication style, but you can remove yourself from the discussions and let your kids know you support their decision if they want to do the same.
With your brother, I understand your frustration and that would deeply frustrate me too. But your husband didn't make your brother block you, your brother did that. It could be worthwhile to start email or phone call conversations with him to stay in touch and help him see that your relationship with him isn't solely tied to your husband. I have a close relative who unfriended me on FB over politics and it did really hurt my feelings. But we keep in touch in other ways and it's worked out okay.
posted by areaperson at 6:56 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
I doubt there's much you can do to change your husband's terrible communication style, but you can remove yourself from the discussions and let your kids know you support their decision if they want to do the same.
With your brother, I understand your frustration and that would deeply frustrate me too. But your husband didn't make your brother block you, your brother did that. It could be worthwhile to start email or phone call conversations with him to stay in touch and help him see that your relationship with him isn't solely tied to your husband. I have a close relative who unfriended me on FB over politics and it did really hurt my feelings. But we keep in touch in other ways and it's worked out okay.
posted by areaperson at 6:56 PM on June 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
At a minimum, their arguing is poisoning the family FB space and that is your business. I'd talk to your daughter and see how she feels about it, and if she agrees, ban political discussions from your group. Maybe your husband and son both enjoy arguing more in front of an audience. If they need to take it to messenger it might take a lot of the fun out of it.
posted by rpfields at 7:27 PM on June 2, 2017
posted by rpfields at 7:27 PM on June 2, 2017
You have two problems 1) your husband has no respect for you or your family. 2) He thinks he's always right and doesn't view his behaviour as toxic.
Why would your husband stop arguing with your son to appease you? You've already shown him you don't care if he drives your family away! You lost an immediate family member due to his stubbornness and stupidity and your only reaction was...whatever. Like you said, it has nothing to do with you.
I hope you really love your husband because by end of this, it will just be the two of you. Of course, he has no respect for you whatsoever, (he didn't pay any attention when you asked him to stop arguing with your brother after all) so when he's driven away everyone else, the only person left to argue with will be you. Won't that be fun.
You need at a minimum, to shut down the Facebook page, get him to make amends with your brother and start doing therapy. this man sounds like he runs roughshod over everyone who doesn't agree with him and there's been very few repercussions so he has gotten away with it. Maybe it's time for some.
posted by Jubey at 7:35 PM on June 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
Why would your husband stop arguing with your son to appease you? You've already shown him you don't care if he drives your family away! You lost an immediate family member due to his stubbornness and stupidity and your only reaction was...whatever. Like you said, it has nothing to do with you.
I hope you really love your husband because by end of this, it will just be the two of you. Of course, he has no respect for you whatsoever, (he didn't pay any attention when you asked him to stop arguing with your brother after all) so when he's driven away everyone else, the only person left to argue with will be you. Won't that be fun.
You need at a minimum, to shut down the Facebook page, get him to make amends with your brother and start doing therapy. this man sounds like he runs roughshod over everyone who doesn't agree with him and there's been very few repercussions so he has gotten away with it. Maybe it's time for some.
posted by Jubey at 7:35 PM on June 2, 2017 [7 favorites]
You need to go to each of them separately and tell them that you understand their position, but they need to stop because the other one is not very good at this and is really stubborn and it's hurting the family, and they need to be the bigger person. Because that's the truth.
posted by bongo_x at 9:40 PM on June 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 9:40 PM on June 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
By implicitly agreeing to cease contact with your brother, you've enabled your husband's behaviour. Ask him to stop because you've told him so, and please please please, do yourself a favour and leave that Facebook group.
We (siblings and parent) use WhatsApp and it's fine for family stuff.
posted by Kwadeng at 1:01 AM on June 3, 2017
We (siblings and parent) use WhatsApp and it's fine for family stuff.
posted by Kwadeng at 1:01 AM on June 3, 2017
This is the very reason I hate talking about politics, it's typically a lose lose situation. With no one really winning. Your husband seems pretty passionate, but relentless trying to convince someone of something they whole heartlessly disagree with won't work. Since you know how this is most likely going to turn out, I would try my hardest to at least tone down the disagreement.
It might eventually have an effect on your relationship with your son, if something isn't done. Grudges are hard to break.
posted by ZypDon54 at 7:33 AM on June 3, 2017
It might eventually have an effect on your relationship with your son, if something isn't done. Grudges are hard to break.
posted by ZypDon54 at 7:33 AM on June 3, 2017
Tell your husband to stop making his ego more important than his family, because that's what this sort of pressured arguing is about.
posted by crunchy potato at 7:37 AM on June 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by crunchy potato at 7:37 AM on June 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
There are 2 problems.
One problem is that your husband is not groking his style of engagement is problematic, specifically the way he engages with you. He's got some fucked up shit going on and I don't know if it is insecurity, immaturity, meanness, or what - but this man is actively hurting you by not alienating your family - both brother and son - and this requires couples therapy or some other focused modality to get him to wise up and quit it.
The second problem is that arguing about politics never changed the world for the better, so on top of weaponizing his relationships to your relations with this bullshit, your husband also is not accomplishing one damn thing in terms of political goals. He's being ENTIRELY ineffective.
I'm sure your husband feels betrayed by what we were told America and Democracy meant, and how this all turned outto be untrue. I'm sure seeing he is actually a rather powerless cog in a system feels disempowering and he lacks the coping skills to adjust. I get it. But he doesn't get to take this out on you, his wife, and that's exactly what he is doing.
Personally, I suggest he ultimately get more personal within himself to solve his problems and effect poltical change, but I know he'll reject that. Part of the way this current power paradigm came into dominance was by promoting ideas like meditation is for sissies, only military force creates peace, and that real men don't eat quiche. Imagine that? The culture he feels betrayed betrayed by actually betrayed him with a belief system designed to put his focus on things that won't work out in the long run. (I'm exaggerating a bit, but maybe you see what I mean?)
In a lot of ways what you describe is a common experience going on in society right now. Your husband cares, he just cares in ways that are hurting everyone. No resources but maybe this perspective helps you search out solutions.
posted by jbenben at 9:54 AM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
One problem is that your husband is not groking his style of engagement is problematic, specifically the way he engages with you. He's got some fucked up shit going on and I don't know if it is insecurity, immaturity, meanness, or what - but this man is actively hurting you by not alienating your family - both brother and son - and this requires couples therapy or some other focused modality to get him to wise up and quit it.
The second problem is that arguing about politics never changed the world for the better, so on top of weaponizing his relationships to your relations with this bullshit, your husband also is not accomplishing one damn thing in terms of political goals. He's being ENTIRELY ineffective.
I'm sure your husband feels betrayed by what we were told America and Democracy meant, and how this all turned outto be untrue. I'm sure seeing he is actually a rather powerless cog in a system feels disempowering and he lacks the coping skills to adjust. I get it. But he doesn't get to take this out on you, his wife, and that's exactly what he is doing.
Personally, I suggest he ultimately get more personal within himself to solve his problems and effect poltical change, but I know he'll reject that. Part of the way this current power paradigm came into dominance was by promoting ideas like meditation is for sissies, only military force creates peace, and that real men don't eat quiche. Imagine that? The culture he feels betrayed betrayed by actually betrayed him with a belief system designed to put his focus on things that won't work out in the long run. (I'm exaggerating a bit, but maybe you see what I mean?)
In a lot of ways what you describe is a common experience going on in society right now. Your husband cares, he just cares in ways that are hurting everyone. No resources but maybe this perspective helps you search out solutions.
posted by jbenben at 9:54 AM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you all, and I have an update.
Thanks to all for the thoughtful comments. i will re-read them and think about each one.
But in the meantime, I have an encouraging update, which brings our daughter into this story, with maybe a happy ending.
Our daughter is also a young adult, but she is a few years younger than our son, attends a local college, and lives at home. She is more into facebook than anyone else in the family, so she was the one who set up the family facebook group.
Today was her birthday, and she, my husband, and I went out for a birthday brunch. She and I haven't talked recently about the problem that I brought up here, and she does not even know about this thread. But I guess the escalating tone of the discussions/arguments between my husband and our son/her brother has not escaped her attention!
So about halfway through brunch, totally unprompted by me, she raised the topic. She said everything I said in my original post here, even better than I could have. She made the additional point that she did not set up the group to be a platform for political arguments, but rather as a way for all of us to keep in touch, considering that son/brother lives a few states away.
The discussion went really well, considering the personal nature, and in the end my husband conceded that we (daughter and I) were correct, and agreed to stand down in these arguments with son/brother.
Time will tell, but I do think he heard us, and I am cautiously optimistic that this issue might be resolved.
Thanks again for everyone's input. (Fyi, I have not marked a favorite because I appreciate all the input, but I might go back and mark one that particularly resonated with me.)
So grateful for AskMeFi!
Also, just a clarification on a couple points -- my brother blocked my husband quite a while ago -- maybe three or four years ago? And it was only in the past few days that I realized for sure that he also blocked me. As you might know, you don't get an announcement when you're blocked; you just gradually realize that something is off, when you stop seeing the other person online. I suspect it was sometime in the past few months that he blocked me, and I don't really link it to my husband. I have just not had the time in the past few days to focus on what's going on there with my brother.
Also, although I completely get why it came across this way, my husband probably doesn't have a mean bone in his body. He is just incredibly stubborn, and will never let things go. He is almost TOO calm and rational, in a way that can be maddening, if that makes sense, and it was obviously having a bad effect on the relationship between him and our son.
In any case, thank you all again! Sorry this was a bit long. OP signing off! :-)
posted by merejane at 2:17 PM on June 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Thanks to all for the thoughtful comments. i will re-read them and think about each one.
But in the meantime, I have an encouraging update, which brings our daughter into this story, with maybe a happy ending.
Our daughter is also a young adult, but she is a few years younger than our son, attends a local college, and lives at home. She is more into facebook than anyone else in the family, so she was the one who set up the family facebook group.
Today was her birthday, and she, my husband, and I went out for a birthday brunch. She and I haven't talked recently about the problem that I brought up here, and she does not even know about this thread. But I guess the escalating tone of the discussions/arguments between my husband and our son/her brother has not escaped her attention!
So about halfway through brunch, totally unprompted by me, she raised the topic. She said everything I said in my original post here, even better than I could have. She made the additional point that she did not set up the group to be a platform for political arguments, but rather as a way for all of us to keep in touch, considering that son/brother lives a few states away.
The discussion went really well, considering the personal nature, and in the end my husband conceded that we (daughter and I) were correct, and agreed to stand down in these arguments with son/brother.
Time will tell, but I do think he heard us, and I am cautiously optimistic that this issue might be resolved.
Thanks again for everyone's input. (Fyi, I have not marked a favorite because I appreciate all the input, but I might go back and mark one that particularly resonated with me.)
So grateful for AskMeFi!
Also, just a clarification on a couple points -- my brother blocked my husband quite a while ago -- maybe three or four years ago? And it was only in the past few days that I realized for sure that he also blocked me. As you might know, you don't get an announcement when you're blocked; you just gradually realize that something is off, when you stop seeing the other person online. I suspect it was sometime in the past few months that he blocked me, and I don't really link it to my husband. I have just not had the time in the past few days to focus on what's going on there with my brother.
Also, although I completely get why it came across this way, my husband probably doesn't have a mean bone in his body. He is just incredibly stubborn, and will never let things go. He is almost TOO calm and rational, in a way that can be maddening, if that makes sense, and it was obviously having a bad effect on the relationship between him and our son.
In any case, thank you all again! Sorry this was a bit long. OP signing off! :-)
posted by merejane at 2:17 PM on June 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
If my teenage son and I are arguing, my wife (his mother) tells us to knock it off.
posted by My Dad at 4:56 PM on June 3, 2017
posted by My Dad at 4:56 PM on June 3, 2017
(She then informs me that I should have been acting my age).
posted by My Dad at 4:56 PM on June 3, 2017
posted by My Dad at 4:56 PM on June 3, 2017
That's a very positive update! I'm really glad to hear that your daughter broached the topic so well and your husband heard her. That's fantastic!
posted by areaperson at 6:30 PM on June 3, 2017
posted by areaperson at 6:30 PM on June 3, 2017
I hope that you are right about the problem being solved, but in case it comes up again - I really agree with suggestions to move the forum to another platform (you don't have to get people defensive by referring to the political issue, just cheerfully state that we're moving to a family Google Group or something). This happened in my family, and it caused a lot of drama until one of the involved parties deleted their Facebook account. The relationship is still on the rocks between the two of them, but it was much less stressful once that medium for conflict was removed.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:28 PM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:28 PM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have another tool for your toolbox, just in case this carries on (fingers crossed not!)
My dad and I used to argue TOOTH AND NAIL about certain political topics. The reason we often kicked off, we eventually realised (after one utterly awful argument that nearly saw them not attending my wedding) was that he has a much lower threshold for bringing the topics up than I did, and saw every mention of them as a red flag, and sort of my inviting him to have an argument.
Once we'd figured this out, we made an agreement - I would try and steer clear of the topics when we were together, but if I DID accidentally overstep what he considered the line, he would let me know but NOT start an argument unless I then carried on. Ie. I had the opportunity to sort of "*hands up* my bad" my way out of the situation if I didn't want a big debate.
This works surprisingly well. I don't feel I have to completely and awkwardly curb everything I say, and he has never actually called me out, so far. I think that extra step has meant he has sort of relaxed his threshold for an argument without even fully realising it.
I feel like a cop out posting this because a Good Feminist would have discussions with her dad about it until her larynx bled but do you know what I only have so much time and money for therapy.
posted by greenish at 7:33 AM on June 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
My dad and I used to argue TOOTH AND NAIL about certain political topics. The reason we often kicked off, we eventually realised (after one utterly awful argument that nearly saw them not attending my wedding) was that he has a much lower threshold for bringing the topics up than I did, and saw every mention of them as a red flag, and sort of my inviting him to have an argument.
Once we'd figured this out, we made an agreement - I would try and steer clear of the topics when we were together, but if I DID accidentally overstep what he considered the line, he would let me know but NOT start an argument unless I then carried on. Ie. I had the opportunity to sort of "*hands up* my bad" my way out of the situation if I didn't want a big debate.
This works surprisingly well. I don't feel I have to completely and awkwardly curb everything I say, and he has never actually called me out, so far. I think that extra step has meant he has sort of relaxed his threshold for an argument without even fully realising it.
I feel like a cop out posting this because a Good Feminist would have discussions with her dad about it until her larynx bled but do you know what I only have so much time and money for therapy.
posted by greenish at 7:33 AM on June 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
my husband probably doesn't have a mean bone in his body
This is really beside the point. Well meaning people can easily become toxic people if they cannot learn to interact with people in a healthy way. It's honestly more painful when you can't be seen by an otherwise decent person. When it's a mean person, it's easier to shrug off.
posted by politikitty at 2:01 PM on June 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is really beside the point. Well meaning people can easily become toxic people if they cannot learn to interact with people in a healthy way. It's honestly more painful when you can't be seen by an otherwise decent person. When it's a mean person, it's easier to shrug off.
posted by politikitty at 2:01 PM on June 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
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1. It might be sucking all the air out of the family FB group you have, that's your business
2. Your brother has blocked your husband and now you from FB because (you feel) of these arguments, that is your business
3. You asked your husband to not engage with your brother and he continued to do this, that is your business. It's bad for Team Us and is worth talking about.
4. You have some concerns that your husband's view of how these things are going ("I'm about the win him over") are wildly off the mark. In a general sense, if he's being fighty and argumentative and bothering people and does not even know he is doing that, that is your business.
Some people just suck at arguing and some suck at facebook and some suck at just moderating their own behavior online. It's worth having a frank discussion with your husband about what is going on here. Not because he needs to stop having political discussions with your son,necessarily, but because his habits and behavior surrounding these discussions is becoming an issue that is larger than just him. You might also want to reach out to your son and get a read on how he feels about this. I am sort of conflict-averse and I can feel that discussions are more argumentative and hostile than they are just because of where my center on these things is. Maybe check in with your son and see how he is feeling about all this so you can see if your perceptions (i.e. that this may be damaging their relationship) are even on the mark?
posted by jessamyn at 4:08 PM on June 2, 2017 [14 favorites]