Separation/Healing Separation - your experiences, advice
May 27, 2017 6:25 PM Subscribe
My partner of 12 years and I split 6 months ago, now were are deciding whether and how to heal our relationship or end it for good. We're considering a "healing separation" - your experiences? Longer details inside.
My partner of 12 years (I'm 37 F, he's 40 M) and I split about 6 months ago when after another rough patch he packed his bags and left while I was at work. This was initially tough but I have actually found the time apart useful and have grown in ways that I did not in the previous decade.
In those 6 months, we met 3-4 a month on average, and also had long periods of silences (2-3 weeks). These were hard to maintain but I got over the hump and have found my own peace, stability and productivity. We also talked about reconciling but I maintained that unless certain issues were addressed and resolved I did not want us to live together again.
Our lease together is ending we're getting our own places because we're not there yet and the decision to call it quits or work towards reconciling remains to be made. You could read my older posts if you like - but in a nutshell here is my tale on our problems over the last several years.
By his own admission he had severe commitment issues. He has, however, in the past branded my reaction to his not being a committed partner as an "anger problem. He admits that he did not make me feel like we were a unit. I have expressed feeling like a outsider around his family, esp with his overbearing sister, for a while now. There were also several missed milestones along the way that made me feel betrayed. His chief complaint of me - my anger destroyed him. I feel like it stemmed from his constant withholding of commitment and not standing up for us to others. And I maintain I was never as angry as he makes me out to be. Also of late he says he realizes it stemmed from pain and not some irrational need to be upset all the time.
He acknowledges that in the spans of several months when our life was peaceful and happy and moving along he could not make a leap. I did not ask him to marry me because it was clear he was the one who was not ready and I didn't want marriage to be based on coersion. But it was clear that was the next step now. (12 years)
Also we both started individual therapy about 10 months ago. Mine has gone really well and definitely helped me - I got lucky. He's been through 2 therapists in that time and it hasn't worked out. He's looking for a new one now. In the last 6 months of separation I seem to have done much better than him even though he was the one who left. I've been profoundly pained but I've also found peace and stability. And I never want to go back to a fraught relationship. I had issues with his sister, whom, after an egregious incident a year ago, I stopped speaking with. I was ready to start dealing with her again just before he left, and so have not spoken to her in a year now.
The months after I cut his sister from my life and he cut down on meeting her all the time our relationship had improved, it was the distance i needed and having got it I was doing better. But 3 or 4 months into that time, he said to me we should get married and only few things remained to be ironed out, like bringing his sister back into our lives. I saw this as a condition and found it unacceptable. To my mind he needed to commit to us and trust that things would improve with family if certain boundaries were maintained and I had what I emotionally needed from him. He claims that wasn't a stumbling block for him, I can't seem to get past it.
Now 6 months after living apart we should be splitting up for good, except the separation has centered me which is what I needed and it has made him see the ways in which he short-changed us over the years. He says he's lost a sense of the future. I have revised my sense of it, and I'm the one with the biological clock. After all what future is he talking about if he couldn't commit? Yet there is new humility and understanding, and acknowledgement of a few things from him. How does this translate in concrete terms?
So as we see some signs of new understanding from both our sides we need to decide the way forward and one of the things that has been suggested to us is a "Healing Separation". Essentially, it calls for deferring the decision of whether or not to end the relationship and work on ourselves individually. It counts on the individuals empowering themselves, cleaning up their own conflicts and bringing a renewed "self" to the relationship. The two people can come to an agreement on the terms of separation which can be as loose or elaborate as both want.
It sounds appealing to both of us but I'm worried that it's kicking the can down the road. I feel like he will agree to it because it keeps me in his life but not on the everyday basis that has been difficult for him, and so how will there be any change. On the other hand if we just reconcile we will likely lapse into old patterns because we have not acknowledged and fix the issues that were damaging us. Of course walking away is an option, but the history, the comfort, the sense of humor the general compatibility of other values and an inexplicable love that persists, for both of us really, keeps us from making that call. I also don't think we're much different from any other couple that's splitting up in that regard.
What have been your experiences with separations? Has anyone specifically done a structured healing separation? How did it work out? Seeking all round wisdom, caution, advice on 2nd time round. Thanks!!
My partner of 12 years (I'm 37 F, he's 40 M) and I split about 6 months ago when after another rough patch he packed his bags and left while I was at work. This was initially tough but I have actually found the time apart useful and have grown in ways that I did not in the previous decade.
In those 6 months, we met 3-4 a month on average, and also had long periods of silences (2-3 weeks). These were hard to maintain but I got over the hump and have found my own peace, stability and productivity. We also talked about reconciling but I maintained that unless certain issues were addressed and resolved I did not want us to live together again.
Our lease together is ending we're getting our own places because we're not there yet and the decision to call it quits or work towards reconciling remains to be made. You could read my older posts if you like - but in a nutshell here is my tale on our problems over the last several years.
By his own admission he had severe commitment issues. He has, however, in the past branded my reaction to his not being a committed partner as an "anger problem. He admits that he did not make me feel like we were a unit. I have expressed feeling like a outsider around his family, esp with his overbearing sister, for a while now. There were also several missed milestones along the way that made me feel betrayed. His chief complaint of me - my anger destroyed him. I feel like it stemmed from his constant withholding of commitment and not standing up for us to others. And I maintain I was never as angry as he makes me out to be. Also of late he says he realizes it stemmed from pain and not some irrational need to be upset all the time.
He acknowledges that in the spans of several months when our life was peaceful and happy and moving along he could not make a leap. I did not ask him to marry me because it was clear he was the one who was not ready and I didn't want marriage to be based on coersion. But it was clear that was the next step now. (12 years)
Also we both started individual therapy about 10 months ago. Mine has gone really well and definitely helped me - I got lucky. He's been through 2 therapists in that time and it hasn't worked out. He's looking for a new one now. In the last 6 months of separation I seem to have done much better than him even though he was the one who left. I've been profoundly pained but I've also found peace and stability. And I never want to go back to a fraught relationship. I had issues with his sister, whom, after an egregious incident a year ago, I stopped speaking with. I was ready to start dealing with her again just before he left, and so have not spoken to her in a year now.
The months after I cut his sister from my life and he cut down on meeting her all the time our relationship had improved, it was the distance i needed and having got it I was doing better. But 3 or 4 months into that time, he said to me we should get married and only few things remained to be ironed out, like bringing his sister back into our lives. I saw this as a condition and found it unacceptable. To my mind he needed to commit to us and trust that things would improve with family if certain boundaries were maintained and I had what I emotionally needed from him. He claims that wasn't a stumbling block for him, I can't seem to get past it.
Now 6 months after living apart we should be splitting up for good, except the separation has centered me which is what I needed and it has made him see the ways in which he short-changed us over the years. He says he's lost a sense of the future. I have revised my sense of it, and I'm the one with the biological clock. After all what future is he talking about if he couldn't commit? Yet there is new humility and understanding, and acknowledgement of a few things from him. How does this translate in concrete terms?
So as we see some signs of new understanding from both our sides we need to decide the way forward and one of the things that has been suggested to us is a "Healing Separation". Essentially, it calls for deferring the decision of whether or not to end the relationship and work on ourselves individually. It counts on the individuals empowering themselves, cleaning up their own conflicts and bringing a renewed "self" to the relationship. The two people can come to an agreement on the terms of separation which can be as loose or elaborate as both want.
It sounds appealing to both of us but I'm worried that it's kicking the can down the road. I feel like he will agree to it because it keeps me in his life but not on the everyday basis that has been difficult for him, and so how will there be any change. On the other hand if we just reconcile we will likely lapse into old patterns because we have not acknowledged and fix the issues that were damaging us. Of course walking away is an option, but the history, the comfort, the sense of humor the general compatibility of other values and an inexplicable love that persists, for both of us really, keeps us from making that call. I also don't think we're much different from any other couple that's splitting up in that regard.
What have been your experiences with separations? Has anyone specifically done a structured healing separation? How did it work out? Seeking all round wisdom, caution, advice on 2nd time round. Thanks!!
Response by poster: Before this gets misunderstood more, I never said he should renounce his sister, I would never say that. I even said I was ready to have her back in my life before we split. I think he should consider our relationship without making her or anyone else a factor. I don't hate her, i have serious issues with the boundaries he has been able to draw with her. I'm asking about experiences with/wisdom on separation.
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 7:05 PM on May 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 7:05 PM on May 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Think about the steps and standards you are considering for your most important and life-long relationship: the small ambition of moving from splitting up to 'healing separation.' It seems like you've had the healing separation already and now you want something....more formally separated? And healing? Time to move on. It doesn't have to be this complicated.
posted by cocoagirl at 7:07 PM on May 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by cocoagirl at 7:07 PM on May 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
In the last 6 months of separation I seem to have done much better than him even though he was the one who left. I've been profoundly pained but I've also found peace and stability. And I never want to go back to a fraught relationship.
You know how sometimes people struggling to manage a mental illness will stop taking their meds as soon as the meds start to take effect, because they no longer feel like a crazy person who needs to be medicated? Don't fall into that trap with this relationship. Has your ex done anything that makes you confident in his ability to step up and grow up into the partner you need? Or are you feeling better about the future because you're no longer under the immense stress of relying on someone who can't be there for you?
posted by moonlight on vermont at 7:25 PM on May 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
You know how sometimes people struggling to manage a mental illness will stop taking their meds as soon as the meds start to take effect, because they no longer feel like a crazy person who needs to be medicated? Don't fall into that trap with this relationship. Has your ex done anything that makes you confident in his ability to step up and grow up into the partner you need? Or are you feeling better about the future because you're no longer under the immense stress of relying on someone who can't be there for you?
posted by moonlight on vermont at 7:25 PM on May 27, 2017 [33 favorites]
Continue on your own healing journey. I was not married, but broke off a long-term relationship because we were not in alignment. After time and space (6+ months after 4+ years of dating) we reconnected as friends. No touching. No hello or goodbye hugs, and since our separation there has never been and never will be sex.
We are friends without benefits.
I care for him dearly and we are much better friends to one another than we ever were partners.
posted by Juniper Toast at 7:54 PM on May 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
We are friends without benefits.
I care for him dearly and we are much better friends to one another than we ever were partners.
posted by Juniper Toast at 7:54 PM on May 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's only been 6 months and you're already feeling more stable and healthy on your own. Trust that. There's a better match than this one for you. Take your lessons learned and continue healing on your own. He's missing you and realizing that he wasn't the best partner to you (considering that he framed your completely normal desire to be more committed as your personal anger issue makes this an understatement). But, this isn't enough of a reason to return to him.
It sounds like you've embraced this special time and space and done some tremendous growing and working on yourself. You're making headway with therapy and finding stability in yourself. He, on the other hand, still can't manage to connect and commit to therapy. He's not taking this as seriously as you have and I think he's eager to get you back so that he can slide back into his old patterns.
You spent 12 years trying to make this work with him. Don't keep kicking this can and hoping for a new outcome. Give your time to something new and trust that while this past 6 months has been painful, that you've also connected to your inner peace and strength without him.
posted by quince at 8:03 PM on May 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
It sounds like you've embraced this special time and space and done some tremendous growing and working on yourself. You're making headway with therapy and finding stability in yourself. He, on the other hand, still can't manage to connect and commit to therapy. He's not taking this as seriously as you have and I think he's eager to get you back so that he can slide back into his old patterns.
You spent 12 years trying to make this work with him. Don't keep kicking this can and hoping for a new outcome. Give your time to something new and trust that while this past 6 months has been painful, that you've also connected to your inner peace and strength without him.
posted by quince at 8:03 PM on May 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
You're going the right way. Don't turn around.
posted by amycup at 8:10 PM on May 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by amycup at 8:10 PM on May 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
Your healing journey & increased sense of stability started when he left. If that is the case then you have your answer. If you feel better & more stable without him why would you want him back except being the sort of person that would give him a chance seems to fit into the narrative you're written for yourself.
Neither of you is wrong, but neither of you is right for each other either. You can spend a long time keeping this relationship sputtering along if that's what you want to do, but by your own words you say you are happier without him so why would you.
posted by wwax at 8:17 PM on May 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Neither of you is wrong, but neither of you is right for each other either. You can spend a long time keeping this relationship sputtering along if that's what you want to do, but by your own words you say you are happier without him so why would you.
posted by wwax at 8:17 PM on May 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Break up. Embrace your decision to never be in a fraught relationship again, it is the right choice.
posted by jbenben at 8:25 PM on May 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by jbenben at 8:25 PM on May 27, 2017 [15 favorites]
Sounds like he has narcissistic tendencies. The two biggest red flags? 1) Him twisting your various requests to get your emotional needs met into these false accusations of you having "anger issues," thereby totally shutting down the discussion and putting you on the defensive.
And 2) He packed his bags and left while you were at work. (!!) As if he was your victim, carrying out his own brand of a safety plan or something? Hell no. If I've understood correctly, instead of discussing moving out of your shared residence, you came home from work one day to find him and all of his stuff gone? Who on earth does something so premeditated and sneaky like that without good cause, and then expects a trusting relationship to continue?
Overall it sounds like his strategy has been to deny, attack, and reverse victim order (DARVO), and to purposely mislabel you as the aggressor with an out of control anger problem. Furthermore, it's already been 12 of your most fertile years and he still won't commit. He has betrayed you. You feel more peaceful without him. He triangulates between you and his sister. Therapy has worked really well for you, meanwhile, he is going on his third therapist and hasn't made progress.
Choose yourself. Don't go back to cohabitating with this man. This dynamic just does not get better. You've probably become his Caretaker over time and your self-esteem has taken a hit, such that you don't see the egregiousness of his secret move out while you were at work as the overwhelming dealbreaker it was. Stay far, far away. Go away, and watch yourself continue to blossom in his absence.
posted by edithkeeler at 9:19 PM on May 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
And 2) He packed his bags and left while you were at work. (!!) As if he was your victim, carrying out his own brand of a safety plan or something? Hell no. If I've understood correctly, instead of discussing moving out of your shared residence, you came home from work one day to find him and all of his stuff gone? Who on earth does something so premeditated and sneaky like that without good cause, and then expects a trusting relationship to continue?
Overall it sounds like his strategy has been to deny, attack, and reverse victim order (DARVO), and to purposely mislabel you as the aggressor with an out of control anger problem. Furthermore, it's already been 12 of your most fertile years and he still won't commit. He has betrayed you. You feel more peaceful without him. He triangulates between you and his sister. Therapy has worked really well for you, meanwhile, he is going on his third therapist and hasn't made progress.
Choose yourself. Don't go back to cohabitating with this man. This dynamic just does not get better. You've probably become his Caretaker over time and your self-esteem has taken a hit, such that you don't see the egregiousness of his secret move out while you were at work as the overwhelming dealbreaker it was. Stay far, far away. Go away, and watch yourself continue to blossom in his absence.
posted by edithkeeler at 9:19 PM on May 27, 2017 [31 favorites]
I see two possibilities for you
One is that you really know in your heart that this isn't the right long-term relationship for you. You need the freedom to grow into your own best self and then find a partner who can match you. Spend some time on this with your therapist and when you are ready, share with your partner that this relationship is not what you want for yourself. By the way, you remind me of a woman who got dumped by her husband and a year later she had used the experience to grow and was enthusiastically embracing her new life while her now ex had taken all of his problem with him and was still unhappy.
Option two - he is really a much better guy that it sounds like in your letter, you not only care for him but you would really like to have a future with him and you see some possibility that he could become the partner that you need to be happy. In this case, use the healthy separation to get clearer about your own stuff and then (and this is SO important) do couples counseling together - before you move back in - to figure out how (and if) you two can connect, communicate and commit to each other on a deeper level. My guess is that somewhere in that process it will become clear to you that he can't do it but you know this guy better than we do. If you really believe in the possibility then go ahead and spend another year or so of your life to find out. If you are right, it will be worth it. If you are wrong, then you at least know with certainty that you are making the right decision. If you can't stand the idea of spending another year on this relationship with the possibility that it still might not work then that is your answer - don't do it.
In any case, you sound like you are on a path that will take you to good places. It might be a rocky path at time but I am so excited for you for embracing this challenge and taking the risk of moving forward and refusing to be stuck. Go girl!
posted by metahawk at 9:40 PM on May 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
One is that you really know in your heart that this isn't the right long-term relationship for you. You need the freedom to grow into your own best self and then find a partner who can match you. Spend some time on this with your therapist and when you are ready, share with your partner that this relationship is not what you want for yourself. By the way, you remind me of a woman who got dumped by her husband and a year later she had used the experience to grow and was enthusiastically embracing her new life while her now ex had taken all of his problem with him and was still unhappy.
Option two - he is really a much better guy that it sounds like in your letter, you not only care for him but you would really like to have a future with him and you see some possibility that he could become the partner that you need to be happy. In this case, use the healthy separation to get clearer about your own stuff and then (and this is SO important) do couples counseling together - before you move back in - to figure out how (and if) you two can connect, communicate and commit to each other on a deeper level. My guess is that somewhere in that process it will become clear to you that he can't do it but you know this guy better than we do. If you really believe in the possibility then go ahead and spend another year or so of your life to find out. If you are right, it will be worth it. If you are wrong, then you at least know with certainty that you are making the right decision. If you can't stand the idea of spending another year on this relationship with the possibility that it still might not work then that is your answer - don't do it.
In any case, you sound like you are on a path that will take you to good places. It might be a rocky path at time but I am so excited for you for embracing this challenge and taking the risk of moving forward and refusing to be stuck. Go girl!
posted by metahawk at 9:40 PM on May 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I did this basic thing, known as getting back together with an ex. He and I were each doing very well in our months apart and decided to give it another go. Nearly immediately we were back to our old selves, making each other miserable. Maybe some people really can change how they interact over time but for me it was a huge mistake and I would not recommend it to anyone. Trust that you separated for a good reason, and use the progress you've made as a motivator to keep going!
posted by masquesoporfavor at 12:19 AM on May 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by masquesoporfavor at 12:19 AM on May 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
This sounds like a relationship predicated on each of you changing to meet the others requirements. This is not going to happen. People change because the relationship itself grows and you each gain some understanding of the conflicts. E..g. he sees your "anger" as a natural result of your sensitivity to feeling not cared about as opposed to a character flaw that you need to have cured and you seeing his distancing as an experienced threat to his autonomy rather than a personal rejection.
In theory, it's possible to work these things out over time , but I doubt it will happen the way you two are going about it.
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:15 AM on May 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
In theory, it's possible to work these things out over time , but I doubt it will happen the way you two are going about it.
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:15 AM on May 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
You have liitle to lose if you do a separation-while -working-on -yourself, if it includes pursuing your own interests and wishes, and creating a fulfilling life on your own. You're not committed to getting back together, and enriching your own life has no down-side.
Make sure the terms of separation honor what you want now. You can renegotiate when you feel like it.
Couples counseling is good if there's a possibility of staying together after the separation. You'll both learn how to keep your silence and let the other talk; how to respond constructively, and how to talk about what what you want and need without blaming or disrespecting the other. Even if the relationship ends, you can call on that training for the rest of your life in all kinds of relationships.
posted by wryly at 1:13 PM on May 28, 2017
Make sure the terms of separation honor what you want now. You can renegotiate when you feel like it.
Couples counseling is good if there's a possibility of staying together after the separation. You'll both learn how to keep your silence and let the other talk; how to respond constructively, and how to talk about what what you want and need without blaming or disrespecting the other. Even if the relationship ends, you can call on that training for the rest of your life in all kinds of relationships.
posted by wryly at 1:13 PM on May 28, 2017
You mention your biological clock but I am not sure how important it is to you. If you had even the smallest hope of children I would walk away from the non-commitment you have had for the past 12+ years. I do not think he will ever really commit, or consider you anything except an option - (he can't even commit to a therapist!). I hope he and his sister are happy together and that you also find your soul mate.
posted by saucysault at 6:12 PM on May 28, 2017
posted by saucysault at 6:12 PM on May 28, 2017
Best answer: I have mentioned here before that I left a very long relationship because I was unhappy with the actions of my then partner. I continually expressed this to him, with the change I needed to see, to no avail. Eventually I left him. After I left, we kept in contact and he started making the changes. I told him how confused I was that now, when it was too late, he was making all this effort to get me back. Why? Ah, he said. Well, now I'M the one whose unhappy.
I see a lot of this in your situation. He didn't care that you were unhappy all that time you were together. He's only saying/doing what you want to hear now because HE'S unhappy, selfishly, to get you to come back. It's still just about him and what he wants. Once you go back, everything reverts to normal.
And really, he has hardly made any meaningful concessions. This man has blamed a lot of his issues on your anger. Instead of focusing on how he treated you, he deflected it back to you and said your anger about his poor treatment about made him feel bad! He's allowed to treat you poorly but you're not allowed to get upset about it. He can't even stick with a therapist and won't make any real changes with the involvement of his sister in your life. So even when he should be trying the most to prove himself to you, he's basically done little to nothing at all.
And you, you've come so far. You're stable and peaceful and have moved on. Why the heck would you want to do back to this selfish commitment phobe who won't even admit their own failings in the relationship? Go, find a grownup who loves you and doesn't expect you to live off their scraps of time or love. You can do so much better. Once you realise how much more you deserve, this man will look so unattractive to you.
posted by Jubey at 6:14 PM on May 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I see a lot of this in your situation. He didn't care that you were unhappy all that time you were together. He's only saying/doing what you want to hear now because HE'S unhappy, selfishly, to get you to come back. It's still just about him and what he wants. Once you go back, everything reverts to normal.
And really, he has hardly made any meaningful concessions. This man has blamed a lot of his issues on your anger. Instead of focusing on how he treated you, he deflected it back to you and said your anger about his poor treatment about made him feel bad! He's allowed to treat you poorly but you're not allowed to get upset about it. He can't even stick with a therapist and won't make any real changes with the involvement of his sister in your life. So even when he should be trying the most to prove himself to you, he's basically done little to nothing at all.
And you, you've come so far. You're stable and peaceful and have moved on. Why the heck would you want to do back to this selfish commitment phobe who won't even admit their own failings in the relationship? Go, find a grownup who loves you and doesn't expect you to live off their scraps of time or love. You can do so much better. Once you realise how much more you deserve, this man will look so unattractive to you.
posted by Jubey at 6:14 PM on May 28, 2017 [10 favorites]
I did this, albeit not calling it a 'healing separation'.. I don't think it works out, long term usually. Very long story short: lived together a few years, no major issues other than his lack of interest in committing to my goal of marriage, kids. Lived separately for a year or so, stayed friends/lovers but didn't see each other as often. Eventually he said yeah, ok kids, and we got married, bought a house together, had fun, but he still wanted to wait to have kids while I was ready (late 20s for me, so I had time). Still he stalled until I was mid thirties... We had 2 great kids and he was a loving dad, but eventually gave up, really decreased contributing financially and emotional. He was a man child and I was the mom of three. No fun. Divorced, and the kids are fine but son won't have anything to do with his dad, due to his lack of commitment to him... If I were you, I'd move on from him, you deserve better. Don't settle.
posted by j810c at 7:16 AM on May 31, 2017
posted by j810c at 7:16 AM on May 31, 2017
Response by poster: This thread helped bring me clarity - thank you. We have decided to end things for good. It's tough and for now I can't predict how I will do from day to day - some days are debilitating but I know it's temporary and better than the dysfunction that was our relationship. I've tasted stability and I'm not going back.
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 8:16 PM on June 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 8:16 PM on June 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
It... doesn't? Nothing in your post describes any actual change that has taken place vis a vis your prospects for forming a family with this man. What actually changed? It sounds like what you mostly found upon separating was that you felt your grievances were justified and you feel "peace and stability" without him in your life. Why would that suggest anything other than ending it?
(By the way, even if his sister is loathsome and you're 100% justified in not wanting her in your life, and I'm going to take your word that it is so: if he doesn't see things that way, then demanding he renounce his sister is not going to end well for your relationship one way or another.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:00 PM on May 27, 2017 [3 favorites]