How can we determine if a historic home is right for us?
May 23, 2017 9:47 AM Subscribe
Lovely historic home with many possible projects and problems, is it worth it? How do we know?
We are considering making an offer on a home within a quaint and well-known historic district in Maryland. Although not the oldest home in the neighborhood we'll still have to comply with the architectural guidelines and restrictions of both the neighborhood and the city. We have walked through the home we are considering and are trying to determine if we will make a offer.
Based on the cursory walk through, we know that we will have to rehabilitate several of the original wood windows, encapsulate the asbestos flooring in the unfinished storage basement and possibly consider adding either traditional AC or ductless AC units.
Obviously our realtor is investigating comparable sales in this neighborhood to determine a fair offer. With the possibility of several large projects to undertake and unknown revelations that may come from an inspection down the road, we are wondering if we love this house enough to even consider going forward with so many unknowns.
Would it even be possible to get a rough estimate of window repair/rehab before we purchase the property?
In terms of pursuing an older/historic home, what other concerns/considerations should be thinking about that could end up with major costs down the road?
We are considering making an offer on a home within a quaint and well-known historic district in Maryland. Although not the oldest home in the neighborhood we'll still have to comply with the architectural guidelines and restrictions of both the neighborhood and the city. We have walked through the home we are considering and are trying to determine if we will make a offer.
Based on the cursory walk through, we know that we will have to rehabilitate several of the original wood windows, encapsulate the asbestos flooring in the unfinished storage basement and possibly consider adding either traditional AC or ductless AC units.
Obviously our realtor is investigating comparable sales in this neighborhood to determine a fair offer. With the possibility of several large projects to undertake and unknown revelations that may come from an inspection down the road, we are wondering if we love this house enough to even consider going forward with so many unknowns.
Would it even be possible to get a rough estimate of window repair/rehab before we purchase the property?
In terms of pursuing an older/historic home, what other concerns/considerations should be thinking about that could end up with major costs down the road?
Best answer: How handy are you and how much do you love home projects? How much money do you have to invest in your home? What does your inspector say about the home?
Historic homes with beautifully detailing are often more expensive to maintain because they are made with quality materials/styling that is hard to replicate without a personal gift for this kind of work or you hire specialty craftspersons. Materials like asbestos and lead are common so there are special issues there. Sometimes the rooflines are more complex so a "standard" roofing job on your home may be more expensive than someone else's or a "back of the envelope" calculation. Same with siding and trim. Windows and doors may be custom sizes and so maintaining the appearance while doing upgrades may be more expensive and, of course, may be mandated by the historic district.
A tiny red flag for me that suggests you might not be ready for this home is that you have on your list of introductory costs adding an air conditioner. That's a modern convenience that you would be doing just for you. I'd also wonder why it had not been added previously. If I were you and this was your thing, I'd suggest that in addition to the inspection that you have an HVAC person come in and inspect the current system and talk to you about the AC upgrade. Maybe it's simple or maybe there's some reason it hasn't been accomplished sooner. (Possibly because costs to maintain the home are high enough that paying for an AC upgrade hasn't been in the cards.)
Having said all that, a historic home, if you can maintain it and upgrade it carefully is amazing! They are generally crafted like nothing you can find today. Have lots of character and will last. If you like the flow of the spaces, if it doesn't need a lot of modern upgrades or renovation, if the roof is currently in good shape and the siding and such, it could definitely be a good buy.
Just get an independent inspector and consider calling in an HVAC specialist and plumber to see what you've got.
posted by amanda at 10:11 AM on May 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Historic homes with beautifully detailing are often more expensive to maintain because they are made with quality materials/styling that is hard to replicate without a personal gift for this kind of work or you hire specialty craftspersons. Materials like asbestos and lead are common so there are special issues there. Sometimes the rooflines are more complex so a "standard" roofing job on your home may be more expensive than someone else's or a "back of the envelope" calculation. Same with siding and trim. Windows and doors may be custom sizes and so maintaining the appearance while doing upgrades may be more expensive and, of course, may be mandated by the historic district.
A tiny red flag for me that suggests you might not be ready for this home is that you have on your list of introductory costs adding an air conditioner. That's a modern convenience that you would be doing just for you. I'd also wonder why it had not been added previously. If I were you and this was your thing, I'd suggest that in addition to the inspection that you have an HVAC person come in and inspect the current system and talk to you about the AC upgrade. Maybe it's simple or maybe there's some reason it hasn't been accomplished sooner. (Possibly because costs to maintain the home are high enough that paying for an AC upgrade hasn't been in the cards.)
Having said all that, a historic home, if you can maintain it and upgrade it carefully is amazing! They are generally crafted like nothing you can find today. Have lots of character and will last. If you like the flow of the spaces, if it doesn't need a lot of modern upgrades or renovation, if the roof is currently in good shape and the siding and such, it could definitely be a good buy.
Just get an independent inspector and consider calling in an HVAC specialist and plumber to see what you've got.
posted by amanda at 10:11 AM on May 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
In terms of pursuing an older/historic home, what other concerns/considerations should be thinking about that could end up with major costs down the road?
I have had a lot of difficulty finding people who are adequately experienced/qualified to make certain types of repairs and renovations, with wood work being a particular example. Average joe contractors just don't know or care, and the special craftspeople are often booked out months in advance and/or not interested in smaller jobs.
It's not just a drain on your time but could also complicate any repairs if things get worse while you try to find someone. In my case the people before me went the route of just getting any old person to make a temporary fix, and that has made finding someone really qualified all the more difficult, because I needed someone who could undo the temporary fix then do it right. So if you're planning to keep this house for a long time, it could also complicate things for future you if you can't find someone qualified and have to make a less than optimal renovation.
posted by unannihilated at 10:21 AM on May 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
I have had a lot of difficulty finding people who are adequately experienced/qualified to make certain types of repairs and renovations, with wood work being a particular example. Average joe contractors just don't know or care, and the special craftspeople are often booked out months in advance and/or not interested in smaller jobs.
It's not just a drain on your time but could also complicate any repairs if things get worse while you try to find someone. In my case the people before me went the route of just getting any old person to make a temporary fix, and that has made finding someone really qualified all the more difficult, because I needed someone who could undo the temporary fix then do it right. So if you're planning to keep this house for a long time, it could also complicate things for future you if you can't find someone qualified and have to make a less than optimal renovation.
posted by unannihilated at 10:21 AM on May 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Best answer: We bought a century home (113 years old!) and we're moving in in three weeks. The home had been a bit neglected and there was some work done on it that was not permitted or up to code, so YMMV. Here are the hiccups we've encountered so far:
Scheduling: unannihilated makes a great point about scheduling. We like our contractors and find them to be honest and hardworking people, but the job is so modest that it's hard to get them to come and work on us when they have bigger and more lucrative projects to work with. It means that your repair/rebuild time is hard to predict, and if that makes you uncomfortable, it'll be an unhappy experience for you. Even the simplest things don't go as planned.
Budget: We'd prefer to pay by the project, but we're finding that contractors like to charge by the hour because old homes often have many surprises that add to complexity and costs. So the updated estimate for the new heater and ductwork was twice the original estimate after the complexity of the system became more clear.
The Great Unknowns: When you buy a home this old, the home wasn't built with electric, plumbing, HVAC, or any of the usual systems modern houses were planned around. So they're often kludged around each other. And then if there are any additions, the kludging multiplies. For us, replacing the plumbing means tearing out parts of the floor and the heating to get to it, and even doing that means working around a gigantic cast iron sewer pipe that doesn't connect to anything, but is too big to move. You kind of have to work around it.
General Weirdness: The fixes and improvements and additions on my house represent 11 decades of technology. So we have this big clunky heater from the 80s that wedges sideways(!) under the house, a new porch from 2005, an addition for the spare room built in the 1930s with 1950s ductwork and different woodwork than the rest of the house. You have to work around it.
Granted, I love this house and will probably spend the rest of my life there. I love the location in an old part of town, and I love the light and the way the breezes pass through the elm trees. We just sort of had a gut feeling about it that overruled all sense and caution. Neighbor dogs bark and I feel a flood of acceptance and oneness instead of annoyance. I think you really have to looooooooove a house to go through with it. And even then...
Do you looooooove this house?
posted by mochapickle at 11:03 AM on May 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Scheduling: unannihilated makes a great point about scheduling. We like our contractors and find them to be honest and hardworking people, but the job is so modest that it's hard to get them to come and work on us when they have bigger and more lucrative projects to work with. It means that your repair/rebuild time is hard to predict, and if that makes you uncomfortable, it'll be an unhappy experience for you. Even the simplest things don't go as planned.
Budget: We'd prefer to pay by the project, but we're finding that contractors like to charge by the hour because old homes often have many surprises that add to complexity and costs. So the updated estimate for the new heater and ductwork was twice the original estimate after the complexity of the system became more clear.
The Great Unknowns: When you buy a home this old, the home wasn't built with electric, plumbing, HVAC, or any of the usual systems modern houses were planned around. So they're often kludged around each other. And then if there are any additions, the kludging multiplies. For us, replacing the plumbing means tearing out parts of the floor and the heating to get to it, and even doing that means working around a gigantic cast iron sewer pipe that doesn't connect to anything, but is too big to move. You kind of have to work around it.
General Weirdness: The fixes and improvements and additions on my house represent 11 decades of technology. So we have this big clunky heater from the 80s that wedges sideways(!) under the house, a new porch from 2005, an addition for the spare room built in the 1930s with 1950s ductwork and different woodwork than the rest of the house. You have to work around it.
Granted, I love this house and will probably spend the rest of my life there. I love the location in an old part of town, and I love the light and the way the breezes pass through the elm trees. We just sort of had a gut feeling about it that overruled all sense and caution. Neighbor dogs bark and I feel a flood of acceptance and oneness instead of annoyance. I think you really have to looooooooove a house to go through with it. And even then...
Do you looooooove this house?
posted by mochapickle at 11:03 AM on May 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, and I barely touched the little things!
Like, let's say you have a missing piece of woodwork that was milled 100 years ago. Do you have a craftsman make an identical replacement? Do you find something similar but not exact and use that because it's more affordable? Do you rip up all the woodwork and use something new?
You need to agree on your approach to be happy with the process and the outcome.
posted by mochapickle at 11:22 AM on May 23, 2017
Like, let's say you have a missing piece of woodwork that was milled 100 years ago. Do you have a craftsman make an identical replacement? Do you find something similar but not exact and use that because it's more affordable? Do you rip up all the woodwork and use something new?
You need to agree on your approach to be happy with the process and the outcome.
posted by mochapickle at 11:22 AM on May 23, 2017
Best answer: Talk to the neighbors. They will be an enormous source of information, and will even be able to offer suggestions about who to call to get an initial assessment - hopefully, someone who is familiar with homes nearby that are similar and the restrictions based on the local historic governing body.
posted by mightshould at 11:29 AM on May 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by mightshould at 11:29 AM on May 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I lived in a house built in 1904, for 13 years. Luckily, I rented, but here's a short list of issues with the place I ran into: no A/C, nor was the house suitable for any A/C besides a ceiling fan and a small portable swamp cooler (I eventually resorted to a fan blowing over a block of ice); every window and every door were different heights and different widths; the stairs were all different heights and depths; the plumbing was old and had to be stripped out and replaced; the plumbing fittings had to come from the one specialty store one town over; my gas pipes were outside the walls; when the place had to be repainted, it could only be repainted the original color it had been in 1904; and the wiring was… dodgy at best. I would trip the circuit breaker for the entire house if I ran the microwave for longer than 60 seconds (yep, the whole house was on a single breaker!).
None of that is insurmountable, but that's definitely stuff to keep an eye out for.
posted by culfinglin at 12:48 PM on May 23, 2017
None of that is insurmountable, but that's definitely stuff to keep an eye out for.
posted by culfinglin at 12:48 PM on May 23, 2017
I hope you watch This Old House and right now they are following TOTAL rehab of old brick homes in Detroit and you should really look into the program Detroit has going on right now to help people with this - don't know if Maryland has something similar.
posted by cda at 1:22 PM on May 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by cda at 1:22 PM on May 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
My current house was built in 1928. It had some remodeling done in the 1950's but was mostly original when we bought it. So far we have replace 90% of the electrical, 80% of the plumbing, remodeled the kitchen, remodeled one of the bathrooms, refinished all the wood floors, painted the entire inside of the house, put on a new roof, asbestos removal, replaced the boiler, poured a new driveway and patio, replaced several windows and doors, lots of landscaping, etc...
I really like this house because we aren't going to outgrow it and we love our downtown neighborhood, but, after 8 years I look at it and mostly I just see the projects I still want to do. Sometimes I dream about moving to the burbs to a house with a master bathroom and a walk-in closet where there are no projects to work on. I would say that if you're going to buy a fixer upper, make sure you have the money up front to do everything and just do it in one swoop. We did a lot of major projects before we moved in, sinking about $40k into the house and since then we've just been chipping away at stuff as time and money are available. I used to be the kind of person who was okay with having some projects hanging out there. I'm becoming less that way.
Also, as said before, with an older house that you want to maintain it's character. Don't do anything cheap, you'll regret it. Update the house with the kind of craftsmanship it had originally.
posted by trbrts at 1:28 PM on May 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I really like this house because we aren't going to outgrow it and we love our downtown neighborhood, but, after 8 years I look at it and mostly I just see the projects I still want to do. Sometimes I dream about moving to the burbs to a house with a master bathroom and a walk-in closet where there are no projects to work on. I would say that if you're going to buy a fixer upper, make sure you have the money up front to do everything and just do it in one swoop. We did a lot of major projects before we moved in, sinking about $40k into the house and since then we've just been chipping away at stuff as time and money are available. I used to be the kind of person who was okay with having some projects hanging out there. I'm becoming less that way.
Also, as said before, with an older house that you want to maintain it's character. Don't do anything cheap, you'll regret it. Update the house with the kind of craftsmanship it had originally.
posted by trbrts at 1:28 PM on May 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I live in an area that has made a point of preserving its old houses (the oldest are from the first couple decades of the 19th c.). The biggest mundane issue people encounter is that they simply cannot replace a lot of very basic things without hiring a specialist. Need a new interior door? Er, well, the frame is visibly out of true, thanks to over a century of settling, and it's not a modern standard size anyway. Windows rotting? See above. Etc. So this is going to be a personal call, because on the one hand, these houses can be amazing (I drool regularly over a couple of local mansions on the National Register), but on the other, you need high tolerance for unexpectedly complex maintenance.
posted by thomas j wise at 1:30 PM on May 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thomas j wise at 1:30 PM on May 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Would it even be possible to get a rough estimate of window repair/rehab before we purchase the property?
I would think this would be possible, if you can find someone that does this type of work. Your realtor may know someone, if they sell a lot of houses in this area? This may not mean anything since we are so far apart geographically, but the guy we use charges $190 per window to rerope, wax, and tune the double-hung wood windows in our 1910 home in Kansas City. That doesn't include the cost of new storms if you need to replace those, but you can look up prices online for that.
posted by slenderloris at 2:31 PM on May 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would think this would be possible, if you can find someone that does this type of work. Your realtor may know someone, if they sell a lot of houses in this area? This may not mean anything since we are so far apart geographically, but the guy we use charges $190 per window to rerope, wax, and tune the double-hung wood windows in our 1910 home in Kansas City. That doesn't include the cost of new storms if you need to replace those, but you can look up prices online for that.
posted by slenderloris at 2:31 PM on May 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I owned a non-charming century home for 8 years, so without the gloss of sentiment abouts its charm:
We started to refer to the "wall tax," as in, whenever we opened a wall for any reason, we discovered new fun ways to spent our money like "a smidge of knob and tube wiring" or "burnt supports from that one house fire, miracle tub has not fallen into kitchen."
Nth'ing comments about non-standard fixtures, door sizes, etc.
Our issues ended up being: really leaky basement, clogged sewer pipes, wiring, plumbing, lead.
Basically, I think what helps most is a healthy income and savings. If you are buying within your means you should be ok. If you're stretched, I wouldn't take this on unless you are super DIY handy.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:35 PM on May 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
We started to refer to the "wall tax," as in, whenever we opened a wall for any reason, we discovered new fun ways to spent our money like "a smidge of knob and tube wiring" or "burnt supports from that one house fire, miracle tub has not fallen into kitchen."
Nth'ing comments about non-standard fixtures, door sizes, etc.
Our issues ended up being: really leaky basement, clogged sewer pipes, wiring, plumbing, lead.
Basically, I think what helps most is a healthy income and savings. If you are buying within your means you should be ok. If you're stretched, I wouldn't take this on unless you are super DIY handy.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:35 PM on May 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Best answer: A couple of questions. 1) Are you old-house people? When my husband and I were house-hunting, we looked at about 15 houses in person and literally hundreds online, and literally the only houses we liked were over 100 years old. There was one new neighborhood that would have made a lot of sense budget and location wise, and yet when we went to see (objectively VERY NICE) new houses in this neighborhood we loathed and scorned them in favor of houses that were actually visibly falling apart.
2) Do you have a certain amount of interest in house construction and maintenance? You don't need to be DIY enthusiasts, but the kludge factor referred to above means that developing a good understanding of the way the house is put together and what it's had done and what it might need will really help. No one will know your house better than you, and it's good to be able to have educated opinions on things like windows even if you're not planning to do the work yourself.
3) Do you have a healthy budget? In the two years we've owned, our house has needed: installation of a swamp cooler (no AC previously; this is a good option if you're in a dry area since it doesn't need a ton of ducting), a new water heater, a new furnace, some plaster wall repair, repointing of the brick in the basement, and now a new roof. Plus our homeowners' insurance is demanding that we add a handrail to our original no-handrail porch, so we have to figure out how to do that and maintain the aesthetics of the 1906 building. We will eventually need window rehab and chimney repair and maybe (O please God no) a new sewer pipe. Plus there is light visible through some of the mortar in the garage, so that will need to get done... Plus at some point we'd like to do some aesthetic remodeling of the kitchen and bathrooms. None of this is particularly unexpected, things just wear out and you need to get them fixed, but it does require putting a fair amount of money toward things that don't necessarily improve the looks of the place.
Your best bet is a really thorough inspection. There are definitely window conservation companies that will come out and do a consultation for a property you're thinking about buying. You can probably get really good recommendations on the NextDoor or Facebook group for that neighborhood, and the same with other contractors, since it sounds like there are a lot of similarly-aged houses.
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 6:57 PM on May 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
2) Do you have a certain amount of interest in house construction and maintenance? You don't need to be DIY enthusiasts, but the kludge factor referred to above means that developing a good understanding of the way the house is put together and what it's had done and what it might need will really help. No one will know your house better than you, and it's good to be able to have educated opinions on things like windows even if you're not planning to do the work yourself.
3) Do you have a healthy budget? In the two years we've owned, our house has needed: installation of a swamp cooler (no AC previously; this is a good option if you're in a dry area since it doesn't need a ton of ducting), a new water heater, a new furnace, some plaster wall repair, repointing of the brick in the basement, and now a new roof. Plus our homeowners' insurance is demanding that we add a handrail to our original no-handrail porch, so we have to figure out how to do that and maintain the aesthetics of the 1906 building. We will eventually need window rehab and chimney repair and maybe (O please God no) a new sewer pipe. Plus there is light visible through some of the mortar in the garage, so that will need to get done... Plus at some point we'd like to do some aesthetic remodeling of the kitchen and bathrooms. None of this is particularly unexpected, things just wear out and you need to get them fixed, but it does require putting a fair amount of money toward things that don't necessarily improve the looks of the place.
Your best bet is a really thorough inspection. There are definitely window conservation companies that will come out and do a consultation for a property you're thinking about buying. You can probably get really good recommendations on the NextDoor or Facebook group for that neighborhood, and the same with other contractors, since it sounds like there are a lot of similarly-aged houses.
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 6:57 PM on May 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The last house I lived I was built in 1868. It was an incredibly beautiful house but it was REALLY difficult for our landlords to manage. They didn't want to put time or money into it and it showed. My current house was built in 1926. A lot of care and money went into it when it was restored and it shows. You need to decide how much you're willing to put into it before you move in. Set a realistic budget. If your initial costs for what you need to fix already exceed the budget, move on because there will be stuff you don't know about and it adds up fast.
posted by Marinara at 9:08 PM on May 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Marinara at 9:08 PM on May 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I would say that if you're going to buy a fixer upper, make sure you have the money up front to do everything and just do it in one swoop.
A million times this. People, including me, make the mistake of thinking "I can't afford that now but next year I will be able to". This is not true. If you don't have the money to do a total overhaul now you are much much better off buying a turnkey property, building equity for 10 years and then buying your dream fixer upper old house. Unless you are super handy that is the way to go- have at least twice the estimated renovation budget on hand when you buy!
posted by fshgrl at 9:13 PM on May 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
A million times this. People, including me, make the mistake of thinking "I can't afford that now but next year I will be able to". This is not true. If you don't have the money to do a total overhaul now you are much much better off buying a turnkey property, building equity for 10 years and then buying your dream fixer upper old house. Unless you are super handy that is the way to go- have at least twice the estimated renovation budget on hand when you buy!
posted by fshgrl at 9:13 PM on May 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
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I don't regret any of these projects and like the satisfaction of improving a home and leaving it in better condition than I found it. Of course it's nice to enjoy these improvements, too, but much of the cost goes into items that aren't all that fun.
posted by waving at 9:53 AM on May 23, 2017 [2 favorites]