My Violet Jam Recipe Didn't Gel-What Went Wrong?

May 4, 2017 4:24 AM

I followed this recipe for violet jam scrupulously-except I used liquid pectin instead of powdered. It didn't thicken in the pot, during or after the full rolling boil for 3 minutes.

BTW, "liquid pectin" is a misnomer: when I squeezed it out of the packet it was more like a paste or a gel, and it formed chunks that floated on top of the boiling sugar-water-lemon juice mixture, so I used the eggbeater on them in an attempt to break them up. They broke up and I thought that meant the liquid pectin would dissolve and the jelly would gel but what I now have is a sort of too-sweet sauce-and too much of it. The recipe claimed it would yield 4 8 ounce jars. I used 8 four ounce jars, but apparently the math didn't work...I had so much extra left over that I ended up scrambling for a storage container. The stuff in the jars seems just a little more set than the stuff in the storage container, but that may be because I had the jars in a hot water bath when I filled them. The hot water bath was supposed to cause the jars to automatically vacuum-seal when I placed the lids on them, but nothing of the sort happened, meaning I will have to put them all in the fridge. How come my grandmother could can stuff and have it come out as intended, and I end up with nothing but a disaster?

posted by bunky to Food & Drink (15 answers total)

Given you have too much, I'd reboil it all, and depending on what it does, use more pectin. There's usually instructions with.the pectin on how to fix issues. I rarely hold to the how long to boil instructions, prefer the sauce in freezer to let me know when it's sufficiently reduced..
posted by Ftsqg at 4:31 AM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

The reason your grandmother and mine can do this without disasters is years of experience, probably! There's lots of knowledge that feels instinctual but is really just being able to see the extremely subtle markers in the process as you go - just the slightest change in colour or texture or how it feels when you stir it can make a big difference in the finished product.

Are you in the US? If you don't get a solution here, search for your state and county extension office - you will probably be able to talk to a real-live expert who will help you troubleshoot in detail.
posted by cilantro at 4:32 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Also - did you change the proportions when you used liquid pectin? It may have been paste/gel - like but it still probably meant more liquid and less actual pectin in the recipe. A very small difference in the actual proportion of pectin, in my experience, can mean the difference between a fruit syrup and hard, bouncy jelly - and the grandma experience (which I don't have either) is what can tell you which one you're going to get while you're still cooking so you can correct early.
posted by cilantro at 4:40 AM on May 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

bunky: "The hot water bath was supposed to cause the jars to automatically vacuum-seal when I placed the lids on them, but nothing of the sort happened"

This is a fundamental process failure separate from your setting issues. Possible causes: Chipped jars, not warming the lids, rims of jars not clean, rings tightened way too tight (or maybe too loose?) or overfilling the jars (it is very important to leave the correct head space (basically do not fill past the bottom of the threads) to give the vacuum volume to work with).

bunky: "How come my grandmother could can stuff and have it come out as intended, and I end up with nothing but a disaster?"

Because she has years, nay decades, of practice starting with an apprenticeship that probably started the moment she was tall enough to wash jars and pick fruit. Like any other trade this sort of thing requires practice.

So just keep at it. Jam is usually pretty insensitive to variables. Use enough sugar and (non-expired) pectin and it'll usually set up.

PS: Jam that doesn't set isn't a failure; it's pancake syrup. But you do need your jars to seal.
posted by Mitheral at 4:45 AM on May 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

Do you have a candy thermometer? I biol my jam until it hits 103-104 C using my probe thermometer. I would scoop everything out of the jars and clean them and place into a boiling water bath. Then boil the nice sauce until it reaches the desired temperature and then ladle into the still warm jars that have been removed from the bath. Place the lids on top once they're filled and then let cool on the worktop. You do have to be quite careful with the temperature as if it gets to 105 the jam starts to set hard and you need to squish it against the side of the jar to get it to a spreadable state, but if it is only 102 then it does set, but it is actually quite runny. If you're experienced you can tell by the boiling and the sound that it makes, but having a proper thermometer helps a lot.
posted by koolkat at 5:14 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

I always read that you can't substitute liquid for powdered pectin but I've never actually used it so not sure.

I usually use the sheet method to tell if jam has set up.

For the hot water bath, you said "I had the jars in a hot water bath when I filled them" -- not sure if this is literal, but I personally fill mine on the counter, give the rims a really good wipe with a clean cloth, set the lids/rings on, and then use the bottle gripper thing to lower them into the bath, because the hot water has to cover them. Here's a description (has the sheet test on it too).

Your grandmother learned her methods by doing it with someone every year from when she was small, I bet. If you have an ace jam-making friend, invite yourself on her next batch. For what it's worth, I did a huge batch of strawberry jam one year with great fanfare, overboiled it, and ended up with basically jars of solid vaguely candy-like stuff. My family still makes fun of me.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:17 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

I can speak to the canning issues, I think. I'm guessing you're using the typical two-piece lids like for Ball jars? Regardless, the way the home canning process works is that by heating the product-filled jars, you are forcing air out past the lid gasket and replacing it with water vapor. As the jars cool, the gasket prevents air from reentering the jar and the water vapor condenses, leaving a vacuum.

What this means is that placing a lid on a hot jar will not "automatically" seal it. Proper canning technique for jams and other high sugar/high acid foods is called "boiling water canning" for a reason - you need to have the jars submerged in boiling (not just hot) water for the appropriate amount of time in order to kill bacteria and build the water vapor head required to seal the lids.

Ball sells a guide to home canning which is a good introduction to the basics. (As a side note, they reformulated their two-piece lids a few years ago and apparently it's no longer necessary to heat the lids before using them.)
posted by backseatpilot at 6:34 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

So the "3 minutes" thing should be taken with a big grain of salt; the important thing is the behavior of the jam and not the exact time, especially if you are varying ingredients. You wet a spoon with the liquid, put in in the fridge or freezer, and see if it sets up at all after a few minutes. If not it needs more time. Also, I haven't worked with liquid pectin before, but did the package have any specific directions for working with it? The powdered pectin I normally use is very specific about the order of operations, and I've had failures from skipping steps.

Mitheral covers the "jars not sealing" issue. I would guess that lack of headspace, or not processing them long enough, is the issue. The recipe doesn't specify any of these things, but if you get a canning cookbook you can get a good sense of what is usual.

Canning is one of those things that takes some experience, so don't be discouraged by one early failure. I've been making a lot of jams and applesauce for the past few years, enough for a year-round supply and a jar or two for every family member during the holidays, and I screw things up plenty. Last year I had a few failures-to-seal which I either threw in the fridge or freezer, and a batch of unset blueberry jam (labeled "Blueberry Accident 2016") because I didn't have as much pectin as I thought and tried to mix two different brands to make up the difference. The failure modes you describe are pretty common. Since it sounds like you don't care for the syrup, you could probably try reprocessing the whole lot--put the liquid back in a pot, rewash and warm the jars, use fresh lids, give probably at least 1/4 inch or 1/2 cm headspace in the top, wipe the top of the glass before putting on the lid, have the full jars in fully boiling water for 20 minutes (probably overkill but not harmful to the jam), take them out and don't mess with them for at least an hour.
posted by tchemgrrl at 6:37 AM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

I, too, have been warned against substituting pectins (in my case, dry for liquid). This article indicates the 2 set up differently. You may have added the liquid pectin in too early.
posted by bluefly at 7:01 AM on May 4, 2017

Best answer: Master Preserver here! How long did you cook it? The full rolling boil isn't actually a good gauge. You want to get it to a candy soft gel stage. That's 220 degrees. My gut says since you had so much extra, you didn't cook it long enough or more would have evaporated. Also, powdered and liquid pectins are indeed different beasts. You add liquid pectin at the very end or the heat will break it down.

Agreed with those above - jars don't automatically seal. When you boil the jars, the air expands and escapes. When you cool them down on the counter, the contents contract and a seal is formed. It takes an hour generally but up tp 24 hours depending on your environment. You'll here a "ping" when it happens.

Required by my extension - This recipe is not scientifically tested. The acid seems off. I suggest you reprocess. That means emptying your jars and containers into a pot and reboiling it until it hits 220, and adding more pectin at the end.Put it in containers in the fridge or freezer without trying to seal it, which is a little less work for you. If you must, you can try to re-can it and follow all the directions for that. If you're interested, memail me and I can give you a recipe for a delicious herb jelly where you can substitute violet petals and I'm sure it would be delightful.

Also since you sound new to canning, if you ever have questions please memail me. The internet is not necessarily the best place to get canning answers because people have really different risk tolerances and you just don't know what will happen if you take the wrong advice.
posted by Bistyfrass at 12:08 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Do not substitute pectins. I can a lot of things and one of the things I have learned is that substituting ANYTHING is a recipe for failure. Also, put some spoons in the freezer and really do the gel test. Also, smaller batches always work out better than larger. Every time I double a batch, it doesn't come out the way I'd like.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:10 PM on May 4, 2017

Sophie is dead on, I missed that you double batched. You'd think it would take double the time to cook, but it actually exponentially increases how long you need to cook it and increases the risk of scorching. Since you have so much, when you reprocess I'd use a wide bottom pot. The more surface area, the better. You'll heat through quicker and it should cook more evenly.

I'm worried I came across as too harsh. Unfortunately the recipe you chose is a real bad one for a beginner. In order to form a gel, you need three things - pectin, acid and sugar. The recipe is low on both acid and pectin, so you weren't set up for great results. This recipe just gives you very little wiggle room. I can all the time and I've taken canning classes and I would look at that recipe and not bother. So don't beat yourself up. Canning can be a lot of fun and very rewarding. Protip: if you want to start canning, I like to recommend frozen berries. They're aways in season and have a ton of pectin. I like to add a little lime zest and mint and call it mojito berry jam. It won't always be like this, I promise!
posted by Bistyfrass at 12:53 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Ball canning guide has been published since 1909 - a lot of our grandmothers learned from it. So did my mother, because my grandmothers didn't can and my great-grandmother followed terrifying practices.

I like Pomona's Universal Pectin for jamming-what-I-have experiments, and would love to hear what a Master Preserver thinks of it!

Thirding that doubling the batch makes it much harder to get right, and that it looks like a tricky recipe -- I will add, as a fellow violet enthusiast, that making preserve recipes safe but not changing the pH so much that you ruin the flowers' color or boiling so long that you lose the perfume is really hard. I dry the flowers now and use them for a tisane -- a few blossoms in a white cup will unfold, and go through unearthly shades of blue, and smell like Elfland but only for a few minutes. And then eat the flower, there's a little spot of nectar.

Try the violet syrup as a drink mixer if re-jellying it seems like a hassle. I enjoyed a lot of blackberry syrup on waffles as a kid.
posted by clew at 1:52 PM on May 4, 2017

Best answer: Pomona's Pectin is a fave. It gets dicey because as a master preserver I'm only allowed to recommend tested recipes, and as far as I know there are no "approved" recipes. Maybe the company does it, but I don't know. I use it all the time though. It uses a completely different method of action, calcium. It's great for low or no sugar recipes. If you try to buy low sugar pectin in the store and look on the ingredients list, there's totally glucose or sucrose in there. As a diabetic that feels real shady to me.

In case there are future readers - any time anyone is canning the most important thing is acid. You want an acidic environment. It's not just for the gel, it prevents botulism from growing. Water bath canning with pomona's pectin is the same deal. Don't add water to the recipe, don't add low acid ingredients like veggies or meat. All of these things will change the level of acid in the finished product. That's why this recipe is suspect to me. It has lemon juice, but it's also got flower petals and water which are both pretty neutral. Be especially careful to use tested recipes for things like salsa, tomatoes and pickles. Generally if you mess around with fruits, you'll be okay. Like with any recipe, if you don't follow the directions it might not turn out well, but they're acidic enough that they aren't dangerous. Veggies are time to break out the Ball book and follow the instructions.
posted by Bistyfrass at 3:14 PM on May 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Best answer: Yeah, I think that recipe is dicey too. I substitute pectins regularly (I like using liquid pectin---I think it gives clearer jelly, but it's more expensive), but your recipe calls for powdered pectin and gives instructions like it thought it was using liquid pectin.

(For powdered pectin, you bring the liquid + pectin to a boil, making sure to dissolve the powdered pectin, then add the sugar all at once and bring back to a boil and boil for some number of minutes (whatever it says on the package). For liquid pectin, you bring the liquid and sugar to a full rolling boil, then add the liquid pectin, then boil for one more minute---again, following the directions on the package. Then jar up.)

For what it's worth, I make a lot of added-pectin jam and jelly, and I don't bother with the gel test/freezer test, because I'm not trying to boil the stuff long enough to extract the pectin from the fruit, just long enough to have the added pectin do its thing.

I've not made violet jam specifically, but I have made dandelion jelly and rose petal jelly, and they both came out fine. I would try the rose petal jelly recipe, only substitute violets. (I doubt what variety of flower you're using matters, once you've made the tisane/juice you're going to make into jelly.)

Also, I've never had liquid pectin (which indeed, is thick syrupy stuff) make clumps. Maybe your pectin was bad?

So, your process should be, for liquid pectin:
--Make the tea from the flowers.
--Add in the lemon juice
--Put the liquid and the sugar (see the rose petal recipe for quantities) into a big wide pot
--bring to a full rolling boil (it doesn't stir down)---this is where you want to make sure you used a big pot so it doesn't boil over
--Add in your packet of liquid pectin
--cook for one minute
--turn off heat
--ladle into the jars (that you have previously heated) that are on the counter, so that you fill them to 1/4 inch of the top. Wipe top and threads, put the lid on, and put the band on just finger-tight.
--Put the jars into a boiling water canner (or other big pot) that you have meanwhile filled about half with water (enough so the jars will be covered by 1 inch of water), bring back to a boil, and boil for 5 minutes
--carefully remove jars from canner (jar tongs are helpful) and let sit on the counter for a while to cool. Pretty soon you should hear some "pop" which is the vacuum seal caused by the cooling of the jam making a slight vacuum inside the jars.
posted by leahwrenn at 6:45 PM on May 4, 2017 [1 favorite]