Pointy end goes in the other man.
April 21, 2017 8:36 AM Subscribe
Can you help identfy what original renaissance book or manuscript this image comes from?
These are the Tin Eye results.
The wikipedia image doesn't cite a source document ("Fencing noble students around 1590 (from an old logbook), drawing from the 16th century, rights expired.")
This academic article uses the image, but cites the wikipedia article as the "source".
We are trying to identify what actual extant book or manuscript the image is sourced from, and, if possible, where that document is held. Can you help?
These are the Tin Eye results.
The wikipedia image doesn't cite a source document ("Fencing noble students around 1590 (from an old logbook), drawing from the 16th century, rights expired.")
This academic article uses the image, but cites the wikipedia article as the "source".
We are trying to identify what actual extant book or manuscript the image is sourced from, and, if possible, where that document is held. Can you help?
Best answer: The original wikicommons article actually says it's from a stammbuch/album amicorum, an early autograph book. I'd trawl through late 16th century autograph books looking for a match.
posted by zamboni at 9:12 AM on April 21, 2017
posted by zamboni at 9:12 AM on April 21, 2017
Best answer: After a search for bits of the text in various spellings, I found this, which lists the source as "aus einem Stammbuch der Frhr. v. Lipperheid’schen Büchersammlung";
and this one, which gives the source as "aus dem Stammbuch der Freiherrn von Lipperheide" and says the original (the book? Or just this page with the image?) is in the Stadtgeschichtliches Museum Leipzig. I didn't get far trying to search their site. I don't know whether much of their collection is online.
Whether it's from a Stammbuch that just happened to be in the von Lipperheide baronial library, or whether it's from the specific Stammbuch of that family (apparently most noble families in Germany kept one), my German isn't good enough to figure out. One of the later Lipperheide barons was apparently into collecting books, weapons and fashion history, and this image hits the sweet spot for all of those.
posted by Pallas Athena at 9:28 AM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
and this one, which gives the source as "aus dem Stammbuch der Freiherrn von Lipperheide" and says the original (the book? Or just this page with the image?) is in the Stadtgeschichtliches Museum Leipzig. I didn't get far trying to search their site. I don't know whether much of their collection is online.
Whether it's from a Stammbuch that just happened to be in the von Lipperheide baronial library, or whether it's from the specific Stammbuch of that family (apparently most noble families in Germany kept one), my German isn't good enough to figure out. One of the later Lipperheide barons was apparently into collecting books, weapons and fashion history, and this image hits the sweet spot for all of those.
posted by Pallas Athena at 9:28 AM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Best answer: It sounds like the Stadtgeschichtliches Museum Leipzig has a postcard print of the image, not the stammbuch itself. (
posted by zamboni at 9:36 AM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
sich duellierende adlige Studenten, Postkarte Nr. 1 aus der Postkartenserie "Studentisches Fechten", koloriert, unbeschrieben; "Fechtenden adlige Studenten um 1590")
posted by zamboni at 9:36 AM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Looking at the title and margins of the wikicommons image, I think it's safe to say that that image is a scan of the same postcard print that the Stadtgeschichtliches Museum Leipzig has, which would explain the vague image provenance.
posted by zamboni at 10:44 AM on April 21, 2017
posted by zamboni at 10:44 AM on April 21, 2017
Response by poster: zamboni wins!
The 'postcard print of the image' link above actually gives the provenance - "Graphic is from the tribal (??) book of the Freiherrn von Lipperheide " - thank you!
posted by anastasiav at 11:51 AM on April 21, 2017
The 'postcard print of the image' link above actually gives the provenance - "Graphic is from the tribal (??) book of the Freiherrn von Lipperheide " - thank you!
posted by anastasiav at 11:51 AM on April 21, 2017
Pallas Athena did all the hard work, so I'll happily cede the win to them.
posted by zamboni at 12:10 PM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zamboni at 12:10 PM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Group effort! Glad we were able to track it down.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:48 PM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:48 PM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
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The Higgins Armory Museum has unfortunately closed, but their collection was turned over to the Worcester Art Museum. Someone there might recognize it.
If no one has the answer, I might be able to find someone to identify it, but it will take a while.
posted by FencingGal at 9:09 AM on April 21, 2017