Feel confident in dating even though forever single?
April 6, 2017 6:04 PM Subscribe
I'm a 30 year old woman who has been on lots of dates but never had an official boyfriend. I'm also a virgin although I didn't plan on this, Just wanted to be with someone I care about. This used to really get me down but I've worked on myself so much now I realize that I'm a great person and I've got so much to offer the right guy.
How do I deal with past relationships and sex questions that can come up on dates? I don't want my lack of experience to be seen as a red flag and knock me out of the running because I can't change my past but I don't want it to negativity effect my future either.
Read below and tell me what you think.
I've got a huge heart, great personality. I'm pretty and have a great laugh and I'm an all around great person. I've been on lots of dates and they go very well and then usually after the second or third date, they disappear.
I don't advertise any of this info. But I have been asked about my past relationships and I've heard men ask women the last time they had sex. Usually I just say that I've dated a lot but never found anyone I wanted to be serious with. That's very true. Then when they tellme about their past relationships, I get a little nervous inside and feel like how could I even compare with my lack of experience? Would I live up to the expectations he's used to? Because I'm sure there's a learning curve (with sex and relationships), I don't want to be out of the running because I'm a little late to the party. I've got a huge heart and I'm so kind and caring I know if given the chance I would be a great girlfriend.
In the past, when things haven't work out, I blame myself and get down on the fact that things haven't ever worked out in the past so why is it any different now, so it's like a vicious cycle. But I don't think like that anymore. I'm incredibly proud of my accomplishments in increasing my self esteem and remembering that I'm great whether I've got a boyfriend or not. I try to not think negatively Especially since I can't change the past, Just my view. but I still get bummed when it doesn't work out with a guy and then I wonder what I'm doing wrong? As I said this is the only area I really struggle in and I think it's because I've yet to feel successful in dating.
I'm usually a positive upbeat person but sometimes in this gets to me. I know what I want, and I realize there are so many men in the world, there have got to be many who would be a great fit for me and would love what I have to offer, it's just a matter of finding them. I guess I've been having trouble envisioning the future I want when I've not had the success I had hoped.
I know that just because someone doesn't recognize your value doesn't mean you're not valuable, it just takes the right person to appreciate you. I love that concept which gives me lots of hope that the right guy is our there looking for me, but I read various blogs about what men look for in a girlfriend and I think I've got a lot of those qualities. So then I do wonder if I've got all these things why hasn't it worked out yet?
As I've said I've been working on my self esteem for years and I've made huge progress which I'm so proud of.
I'm not waiting for marriage, but I want it to mean something. Just want to meet the right guy who I care about and he cares about me. I don't want this to be a red flag to guys I go out with but at my age it's pretty much assumed that there are few virgins and most people have been in relationships.
I've read some online forums with people in my situation and they were horribly made fun of, told they were losers and no one would date them. They were lost causes and given no hope. I don't believe that at all, everyone goes at their own pace and for those looking, there is someone out there looking for them.
I have read what you've written to others in similar situations and your kindness made me want to reach out. I know in my heart there are guys who would appreciate everything I've got to offer but I feel like I need a little encouragement that it will happen.
What advice do you have for me?
I've got a huge heart, great personality. I'm pretty and have a great laugh and I'm an all around great person. I've been on lots of dates and they go very well and then usually after the second or third date, they disappear.
I don't advertise any of this info. But I have been asked about my past relationships and I've heard men ask women the last time they had sex. Usually I just say that I've dated a lot but never found anyone I wanted to be serious with. That's very true. Then when they tellme about their past relationships, I get a little nervous inside and feel like how could I even compare with my lack of experience? Would I live up to the expectations he's used to? Because I'm sure there's a learning curve (with sex and relationships), I don't want to be out of the running because I'm a little late to the party. I've got a huge heart and I'm so kind and caring I know if given the chance I would be a great girlfriend.
In the past, when things haven't work out, I blame myself and get down on the fact that things haven't ever worked out in the past so why is it any different now, so it's like a vicious cycle. But I don't think like that anymore. I'm incredibly proud of my accomplishments in increasing my self esteem and remembering that I'm great whether I've got a boyfriend or not. I try to not think negatively Especially since I can't change the past, Just my view. but I still get bummed when it doesn't work out with a guy and then I wonder what I'm doing wrong? As I said this is the only area I really struggle in and I think it's because I've yet to feel successful in dating.
I'm usually a positive upbeat person but sometimes in this gets to me. I know what I want, and I realize there are so many men in the world, there have got to be many who would be a great fit for me and would love what I have to offer, it's just a matter of finding them. I guess I've been having trouble envisioning the future I want when I've not had the success I had hoped.
I know that just because someone doesn't recognize your value doesn't mean you're not valuable, it just takes the right person to appreciate you. I love that concept which gives me lots of hope that the right guy is our there looking for me, but I read various blogs about what men look for in a girlfriend and I think I've got a lot of those qualities. So then I do wonder if I've got all these things why hasn't it worked out yet?
As I've said I've been working on my self esteem for years and I've made huge progress which I'm so proud of.
I'm not waiting for marriage, but I want it to mean something. Just want to meet the right guy who I care about and he cares about me. I don't want this to be a red flag to guys I go out with but at my age it's pretty much assumed that there are few virgins and most people have been in relationships.
I've read some online forums with people in my situation and they were horribly made fun of, told they were losers and no one would date them. They were lost causes and given no hope. I don't believe that at all, everyone goes at their own pace and for those looking, there is someone out there looking for them.
I have read what you've written to others in similar situations and your kindness made me want to reach out. I know in my heart there are guys who would appreciate everything I've got to offer but I feel like I need a little encouragement that it will happen.
What advice do you have for me?
You'll likely get a lot of thoughtful and intelligent responses. I can't say why you haven't found what you're looking for yet, but it sounds like you're a lovely person and doing all the right things.
I just want to say that if you are dating someone and they ask when you last had sex, you are not obligated to answer them. (That seems odd to me, especially in the first few dates). However you can say "that's a conversation for later" and change the subject. IMO, the sexual history conversation is one you have when you know you want to have sex with someone and have gotten comfortable with each other. And I find it very hard to imagine that a decent guy who cares about you is going to decide that since you're a virgin you're not the one for him.
posted by bunderful at 6:26 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
I just want to say that if you are dating someone and they ask when you last had sex, you are not obligated to answer them. (That seems odd to me, especially in the first few dates). However you can say "that's a conversation for later" and change the subject. IMO, the sexual history conversation is one you have when you know you want to have sex with someone and have gotten comfortable with each other. And I find it very hard to imagine that a decent guy who cares about you is going to decide that since you're a virgin you're not the one for him.
posted by bunderful at 6:26 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's worth noting that just about everyone has a thing they're anxious about revealing when dating. Your reference to that worry of being "red-flagged" for that thing rings so, so true to me and many other people. And it's a bit proverbial, but those same people will remind you that a person who red-flags you isn't one you'd enjoy being with. You have a deep and personal motivation, and that's worth pride.
But I have been asked about my past relationships and I've heard men ask women the last time they had sex.
It's acceptable and common to reply with a bit of discomfort at the question, in a, "eh, can we talk about our pasts later, I'd rather hear about your (insert interesting other thing here)" sort of way. I never took the question as an insult, or even inappropriate, but I tried to set my limits with my response. If you're hitting it off, it'll slide right by each time you get it until you're ready to talk frankly.
When I met the man who I'd eventually marry, I was petrified knowing that, at some point, past relationships and sex would come up. At the time, I was a few years into sowing my newly-out oats with abandon and convinced this dude would roll his eyes and lose interest when he found out any details. I hedged conversations until it felt like it was a decent time to bring it up, and we found out that it wasn't a red flag at all and here we are ten years later. He had those things, too, and they came up at his pace. We were honest with one another, but it didn't all come at once, right up front. We had to really warm up to each other, I guess, and feel the energy of a relationship connection happening before we told each other about those things.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
But I have been asked about my past relationships and I've heard men ask women the last time they had sex.
It's acceptable and common to reply with a bit of discomfort at the question, in a, "eh, can we talk about our pasts later, I'd rather hear about your (insert interesting other thing here)" sort of way. I never took the question as an insult, or even inappropriate, but I tried to set my limits with my response. If you're hitting it off, it'll slide right by each time you get it until you're ready to talk frankly.
When I met the man who I'd eventually marry, I was petrified knowing that, at some point, past relationships and sex would come up. At the time, I was a few years into sowing my newly-out oats with abandon and convinced this dude would roll his eyes and lose interest when he found out any details. I hedged conversations until it felt like it was a decent time to bring it up, and we found out that it wasn't a red flag at all and here we are ten years later. He had those things, too, and they came up at his pace. We were honest with one another, but it didn't all come at once, right up front. We had to really warm up to each other, I guess, and feel the energy of a relationship connection happening before we told each other about those things.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:39 PM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
One last suggestion:
The blogs and forums and stuff? It's tempting, but don't go to them for information. Support, yes--like this Ask!--but you don't need to tune your personality to an average metered out by other folks' views on etiquette and The Rules. Really, people just meet one another and should they have compatibilities those things will rise to the surface of conversation like cream. Following the guidebooks you'll find online will clog up your conversation with calculated guesses on what you should be saying, blocking those topics that might be your compatibilities from even coming up. You sound wonderful and thoughtful and I wish you all the encouragement in the world.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:55 PM on April 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
The blogs and forums and stuff? It's tempting, but don't go to them for information. Support, yes--like this Ask!--but you don't need to tune your personality to an average metered out by other folks' views on etiquette and The Rules. Really, people just meet one another and should they have compatibilities those things will rise to the surface of conversation like cream. Following the guidebooks you'll find online will clog up your conversation with calculated guesses on what you should be saying, blocking those topics that might be your compatibilities from even coming up. You sound wonderful and thoughtful and I wish you all the encouragement in the world.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 7:55 PM on April 6, 2017 [11 favorites]
But I have been asked about my past relationships and I've heard men ask women the last time they had sex.
Nobody has ever asked me that. No one. And I've been on plenty of dates and several long-term relationships. I'm not going to say no one will ever ask you that, but yah you don't need to answer. I wouldn't. None of their business!
It's also none of their business how many partners you've had (or haven't had). Only people I had been exclusively dating and sleeping with have ever asked that question, and none have since after my mid-20s.
Dating someone doesn't give them any right to your personal information. Trying to force intimacy by asking intimate questions doesn't work.
I've got a huge heart and I'm so kind and caring I know if given the chance I would be a great girlfriend.
You deserve a guy who would be a great boyfriend. None of those men who ghosted would have been.
posted by Dynex at 7:58 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Nobody has ever asked me that. No one. And I've been on plenty of dates and several long-term relationships. I'm not going to say no one will ever ask you that, but yah you don't need to answer. I wouldn't. None of their business!
It's also none of their business how many partners you've had (or haven't had). Only people I had been exclusively dating and sleeping with have ever asked that question, and none have since after my mid-20s.
Dating someone doesn't give them any right to your personal information. Trying to force intimacy by asking intimate questions doesn't work.
I've got a huge heart and I'm so kind and caring I know if given the chance I would be a great girlfriend.
You deserve a guy who would be a great boyfriend. None of those men who ghosted would have been.
posted by Dynex at 7:58 PM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
I've heard men ask women the last time they had sex.
At 30, I was in pretty much your position. It's changed some now that I'm 40 but I'm still not in a relationship, so I'm not promising you sunshine and roses (nor telling you you'll never get them), but I will say this for damn sure: if a man asked me on a first date when I had last had sex, I would politely resist the urge to kick him in the balls and end the date early. A man who would ask that question isn't worthy of an answer or even any consideration in your mental space.
Thus far, I have had many dozens of first dates and it hasn't happened, but it's good to know I should be ready for it.
Maybe I'll start wearing pointier shoes.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
At 30, I was in pretty much your position. It's changed some now that I'm 40 but I'm still not in a relationship, so I'm not promising you sunshine and roses (nor telling you you'll never get them), but I will say this for damn sure: if a man asked me on a first date when I had last had sex, I would politely resist the urge to kick him in the balls and end the date early. A man who would ask that question isn't worthy of an answer or even any consideration in your mental space.
Thus far, I have had many dozens of first dates and it hasn't happened, but it's good to know I should be ready for it.
Maybe I'll start wearing pointier shoes.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [18 favorites]
First of all, mad props to you for doing all the work to recognize your self worth and understand that you have so much to offer. Truly, that is so huge, and there are plenty of people with an extensive relationship and/or sex history who cannot say the same. Also, as I'm sure you know, everyone has things that they are insecure about or preemptively considered "red flags" long before they are even talking to potential partners. Everyone has stuff, some of it bad, some of it good, and really, in my mind, this is neutral information. Once you are in a serious relationship, it's not unimportant because it will inform how you approach relationships and sex in the future, but it should by no means serve as an indicator that something is amiss. Since, for you, sex is tied so closely to emotional intimacy, I think your obligation of when to disclose is determined by the moment that you decide you want to have sex with someone. Prior to that, your past relationships and sexual history are your business and do not require further discussion beyond the, "I'm single, there are no exes currently complicating things, & I am STD-free." If someone pushes you to talk about your past, I would simply demur and say you'd prefer to focus on the present moment.
While our backgrounds differ, I have known plenty of people with a similar story to yours, and *NEVER* has anyone asked either of us when the last time we had sex was. If someone asked me, I would balk at the question, even though I'm pretty much an open book. I've talked about STD-free/last time tested status, birth control, safe sex, exclusivity, and, in a relationship context, what to do if an unlikely & unexpected pregnancy were to occur, but exactly when I've last had sex has never come up in such an explicit way. I may have referred to someone I've dated or a friends with benefits situation that ended at a certain point in time, most likely if it was recent, but I never said or was asked when I last had sex. This question is rude and, frankly, is a huge red flag that this is someone who you do not need in your life.
I think your central question is, "why hasn't it worked out yet?" That's something that anyone in search of a relationship, regardless of past experiences, asks themselves. This is a frustratingly cliche and unhelpful answer, but, it just takes time, a bit of luck, and a lot of effort. It would be great if it all clicked into place easily, but that is so incredibly rare (& those stories often have some of the more challenging bits glossed over as time passes). While I think it's wonderful you want to wait until your first sexual experience means something special, I think it's important to note that many people also want this, often think they have chosen wisely, but, in the end, do not get an exceptional first time, &, even then, it is still meaningful & memorable, simply by virtue of it being the first time. Please do not misunderstand me; I'm not encouraging you to just go out there, find someone, & have sex for the sake of ticking it off your list. If you think it's a barrier for you as you navigate dating, however, you may want to reconsider what "special" means to you. Someone who is kind, attractive, & fun might be the right person, even if you have no plans on being with them long term. On the other hand, if you need established emotional intimacy & the potential for a long-term future before you can consider sexual intimacy, then wait until you get what you want. This is your life, your decision, and your journey to choose.
I don't know how helpful this has been, but you sound like an exceptional person and, even though you may be frustrated or anxious occassionally, you will find *your* person in due time. That person may or may not be you first sexual partner. Really, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult & you are making choices that you feel good about, everything will be just fine. Please do not overthink this, have fun meeting people, be safe, & good luck!
posted by katemcd at 8:41 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
While our backgrounds differ, I have known plenty of people with a similar story to yours, and *NEVER* has anyone asked either of us when the last time we had sex was. If someone asked me, I would balk at the question, even though I'm pretty much an open book. I've talked about STD-free/last time tested status, birth control, safe sex, exclusivity, and, in a relationship context, what to do if an unlikely & unexpected pregnancy were to occur, but exactly when I've last had sex has never come up in such an explicit way. I may have referred to someone I've dated or a friends with benefits situation that ended at a certain point in time, most likely if it was recent, but I never said or was asked when I last had sex. This question is rude and, frankly, is a huge red flag that this is someone who you do not need in your life.
I think your central question is, "why hasn't it worked out yet?" That's something that anyone in search of a relationship, regardless of past experiences, asks themselves. This is a frustratingly cliche and unhelpful answer, but, it just takes time, a bit of luck, and a lot of effort. It would be great if it all clicked into place easily, but that is so incredibly rare (& those stories often have some of the more challenging bits glossed over as time passes). While I think it's wonderful you want to wait until your first sexual experience means something special, I think it's important to note that many people also want this, often think they have chosen wisely, but, in the end, do not get an exceptional first time, &, even then, it is still meaningful & memorable, simply by virtue of it being the first time. Please do not misunderstand me; I'm not encouraging you to just go out there, find someone, & have sex for the sake of ticking it off your list. If you think it's a barrier for you as you navigate dating, however, you may want to reconsider what "special" means to you. Someone who is kind, attractive, & fun might be the right person, even if you have no plans on being with them long term. On the other hand, if you need established emotional intimacy & the potential for a long-term future before you can consider sexual intimacy, then wait until you get what you want. This is your life, your decision, and your journey to choose.
I don't know how helpful this has been, but you sound like an exceptional person and, even though you may be frustrated or anxious occassionally, you will find *your* person in due time. That person may or may not be you first sexual partner. Really, as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult & you are making choices that you feel good about, everything will be just fine. Please do not overthink this, have fun meeting people, be safe, & good luck!
posted by katemcd at 8:41 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mom of two young women here...
Do not change a thing. Be your best self and do not settle.
Enjoy your life. Greet each day with wonder, and end each day with some regrets, and some expectations, and some pleasure (all in moderation).
If coupling up is on your to-do list, find friends who inspire you with their past and present relationships and mention that you are tentatively ready for a close, bonding experience. Maybe they know someone? See what comes of it.
And again, see yourself in the mirror of your own self-worth, not in the eyes of someone else. They don't know you like you do, and they can never be as honest as you are about who you were, who you are, and who you will be.
Good luck!
posted by TrishaU at 8:52 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Do not change a thing. Be your best self and do not settle.
Enjoy your life. Greet each day with wonder, and end each day with some regrets, and some expectations, and some pleasure (all in moderation).
If coupling up is on your to-do list, find friends who inspire you with their past and present relationships and mention that you are tentatively ready for a close, bonding experience. Maybe they know someone? See what comes of it.
And again, see yourself in the mirror of your own self-worth, not in the eyes of someone else. They don't know you like you do, and they can never be as honest as you are about who you were, who you are, and who you will be.
Good luck!
posted by TrishaU at 8:52 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
You're awesome. You don't need to justify or explain yourself or your past to anyone. Part of the reason I think men ask this is because they either want to be able to judge you or want to know what their own chances are like. Both reasons are gross.
And the idea that men feel entitled to a rundown of the sexual history of a complete stranger that they've only met twice horrifies me, enough so that my response would be something like, "You're asking the wrong question. The question you're really hinting at is will I have sex with you. And because you're so rude and intrusive, the answer is no. See ya."
You're on the right track, and the the right person will eventually make themselves known. Do not despair.
posted by Jubey at 9:26 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
And the idea that men feel entitled to a rundown of the sexual history of a complete stranger that they've only met twice horrifies me, enough so that my response would be something like, "You're asking the wrong question. The question you're really hinting at is will I have sex with you. And because you're so rude and intrusive, the answer is no. See ya."
You're on the right track, and the the right person will eventually make themselves known. Do not despair.
posted by Jubey at 9:26 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
I would like to congratulate you for at least not dating or having sex with people you didn't find attractive.
That way generally lies misery.
posted by actionpotential at 9:56 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
That way generally lies misery.
posted by actionpotential at 9:56 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I also have not had a long term relationship before and occasionally have felt nervous about whether this would come up in conversation with dates. It did come up on a semi-recent first date and I got a kind of "I'm checking your relationship resume out" vibe from that guy that shortly after in retrospect I realized kind of seemed like a red flag to me. (The guy asked me about past relationships and wanted to know why the last one though initially promising had ended after a shortish period - he actually asked something along the lines of, 'Was it the sex? Was it bad?' - though I kind of deferred at the time and gave some nondescript answer, soon after the date I couldn't help but being struck by how personal/odd a question that was.)
However, apart from that one example, I've mostly had only vague conversations with people about past relationships unless one of us decided to share some details. It's the kind of thing where - to be honest - I don't really want to know that much about their past dating history except maybe if they're on the rebound or something, or maybe later on as context to understand their views of relationships. I think if someone is really interested in dating you, they'll concentrate on dating you and not on analyzing your dating history to death or describing their own past relationships.
I think the key to both dating and sex is just to have fun and concentrate on having some adventures and getting to know some people. On the sex front, some of the best advice I've heard (I think I heard it on Mefi ...) is that just exhibiting enthusiasm for the endeavor and for the person you're with can go a long way towards making it good, even if you're not "skilled" or experienced at the practice of it. I have found this to be true, on both the giving and the receiving end. The best lover I've had wasn't the one who gave me the most orgasms (though that one was nice in his own way), but the one who told me how beautiful and awesome I was constantly throughout the act and seemed to be totally enjoying himself (subsequently turned out to be kind of a jackass - I ignored some red flags, so watch out for those ones, but we had some great sex). Also, when you do have sex, just expect some awkwardness. If you wait for the right person as you've been doing, however, they won't be fazed by this.
I totally empathize with the level of frustration. I've been feeling down about this myself lately. But that feeling like most feelings comes and goes, like you mention. When you do meet the person who seems right for you, let them know how you feel. Communicate openly and honestly and be up-front. I think if you can do that in both romantic and in non-romantic relationships, they'll be that much stronger.
posted by knownfossils at 11:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
However, apart from that one example, I've mostly had only vague conversations with people about past relationships unless one of us decided to share some details. It's the kind of thing where - to be honest - I don't really want to know that much about their past dating history except maybe if they're on the rebound or something, or maybe later on as context to understand their views of relationships. I think if someone is really interested in dating you, they'll concentrate on dating you and not on analyzing your dating history to death or describing their own past relationships.
I think the key to both dating and sex is just to have fun and concentrate on having some adventures and getting to know some people. On the sex front, some of the best advice I've heard (I think I heard it on Mefi ...) is that just exhibiting enthusiasm for the endeavor and for the person you're with can go a long way towards making it good, even if you're not "skilled" or experienced at the practice of it. I have found this to be true, on both the giving and the receiving end. The best lover I've had wasn't the one who gave me the most orgasms (though that one was nice in his own way), but the one who told me how beautiful and awesome I was constantly throughout the act and seemed to be totally enjoying himself (subsequently turned out to be kind of a jackass - I ignored some red flags, so watch out for those ones, but we had some great sex). Also, when you do have sex, just expect some awkwardness. If you wait for the right person as you've been doing, however, they won't be fazed by this.
I totally empathize with the level of frustration. I've been feeling down about this myself lately. But that feeling like most feelings comes and goes, like you mention. When you do meet the person who seems right for you, let them know how you feel. Communicate openly and honestly and be up-front. I think if you can do that in both romantic and in non-romantic relationships, they'll be that much stronger.
posted by knownfossils at 11:11 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
First, good for you for working on your self esteem and realizing your worth! That is truly inspiring.
I've always hated the concept of virginity and struggled with it a lot in my teens and 20s. I hate that, in hetero relationships, you can be sexual with someone, but if you don't have penis in vagina sex (PIV) then you're still a virgin. I think it's important to know yourself sexually (e.g. through masturbation, reading, watching videos and whatnot, having non PIV and PIV sexual experiences with people, even if it's "just" kissing and touching each other) and bring that into a relationship with someone else. Just because you haven't had PIV sex (which is how virginity is defined, which again I find so dumb) doesn't mean you know nothing about sex (which is also how virginity is defined). And I think this is what most "virgins" worry about when wanting to be in relationships with others - will I be judged? And because of how virginity is conceptualized, then people get down about why they haven't lost their virginity, will they ever lose it, will others things I'm a loser, etc. It's so dumb. I wish we could all just recognize that we are sexual people, we have sex drives (that vary from person to person), we are interested in sex and intimacy with other people and that's it! Of course not everyone has a sex drive or is interested in sex and that's ok too! I just hate assigning a status or worth to a person based on whether or not they've had PIV sex. As for the learning curve, even if you've had sex before, with a new partner, you are new to sex with this person so there's always a learning curve. I hope you've seen this thread?
I say all this to maybe help you reframe your thinking about virginity when you're dating or meeting potential partners. I think if your dates ask "when was the last time you had sex" on dates 1-3, I would read that as something really judgey, no matter if I've never had partnered sex or had sex last week. Like why do they need to know that? Why would they want to know that? If you get asked that, I would say, "Why do you want to know?" If you're ok with a little white-lying (I somehow doubt you are), I'd also say, "Oh, it's been awhile, I'm not comfortable with getting into specifics. Let's get to know each other better." If they can't respect that boundary, walk. That person is not worth it.
You talk a lot about your great qualities and how you'd make a great gf if given the chance and how you've read about what qualities guys want and you have them but I feel like this kind of thinking is putting the guy in the driver's seat. And that they should choose you because you tick all their boxes (but you don't know their boxes, you just think you do because of what you've read). What are your boxes?
Why hasn't it worked out yet and what are you doing wrong, you ask? I think you just need to adjust your approach. It's not so much about how you fit all the qualities you think guys want, or that you have so many great things to offer. It's more about knowing what you want. Yes, you want to care about someone and for them to care about you, but we all pretty much want that. Who is this guy? What is he like? What are his values? Pretend you're already in a relationship and you're describing your bf to a friend who has yet to meet him. What do you like most about him? What things do you like to do together? etc. What qualities does he have that are important to you?
Tl;dr: Virginity is a non-useful concept with all sorts of ridiculous parameters so feel free to ditch it. Figure out what you're like sexually and what you want/like sexually. Keep being great and keep valuing yourself. Focus on what YOU want and know when to walk.
posted by foxjacket at 11:34 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
I've always hated the concept of virginity and struggled with it a lot in my teens and 20s. I hate that, in hetero relationships, you can be sexual with someone, but if you don't have penis in vagina sex (PIV) then you're still a virgin. I think it's important to know yourself sexually (e.g. through masturbation, reading, watching videos and whatnot, having non PIV and PIV sexual experiences with people, even if it's "just" kissing and touching each other) and bring that into a relationship with someone else. Just because you haven't had PIV sex (which is how virginity is defined, which again I find so dumb) doesn't mean you know nothing about sex (which is also how virginity is defined). And I think this is what most "virgins" worry about when wanting to be in relationships with others - will I be judged? And because of how virginity is conceptualized, then people get down about why they haven't lost their virginity, will they ever lose it, will others things I'm a loser, etc. It's so dumb. I wish we could all just recognize that we are sexual people, we have sex drives (that vary from person to person), we are interested in sex and intimacy with other people and that's it! Of course not everyone has a sex drive or is interested in sex and that's ok too! I just hate assigning a status or worth to a person based on whether or not they've had PIV sex. As for the learning curve, even if you've had sex before, with a new partner, you are new to sex with this person so there's always a learning curve. I hope you've seen this thread?
I say all this to maybe help you reframe your thinking about virginity when you're dating or meeting potential partners. I think if your dates ask "when was the last time you had sex" on dates 1-3, I would read that as something really judgey, no matter if I've never had partnered sex or had sex last week. Like why do they need to know that? Why would they want to know that? If you get asked that, I would say, "Why do you want to know?" If you're ok with a little white-lying (I somehow doubt you are), I'd also say, "Oh, it's been awhile, I'm not comfortable with getting into specifics. Let's get to know each other better." If they can't respect that boundary, walk. That person is not worth it.
You talk a lot about your great qualities and how you'd make a great gf if given the chance and how you've read about what qualities guys want and you have them but I feel like this kind of thinking is putting the guy in the driver's seat. And that they should choose you because you tick all their boxes (but you don't know their boxes, you just think you do because of what you've read). What are your boxes?
Why hasn't it worked out yet and what are you doing wrong, you ask? I think you just need to adjust your approach. It's not so much about how you fit all the qualities you think guys want, or that you have so many great things to offer. It's more about knowing what you want. Yes, you want to care about someone and for them to care about you, but we all pretty much want that. Who is this guy? What is he like? What are his values? Pretend you're already in a relationship and you're describing your bf to a friend who has yet to meet him. What do you like most about him? What things do you like to do together? etc. What qualities does he have that are important to you?
Tl;dr: Virginity is a non-useful concept with all sorts of ridiculous parameters so feel free to ditch it. Figure out what you're like sexually and what you want/like sexually. Keep being great and keep valuing yourself. Focus on what YOU want and know when to walk.
posted by foxjacket at 11:34 PM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm not waiting for marriage, but I want it to mean something. Just want to meet the right guy who I care about and he cares about me. I don't want this to be a red flag to guys I go out with
I think this would probably only be a "red flag" to people who were not looking for something serious or were just looking for casual sex. This is okay because you're not looking for casual sex! Anyone who wants the same thing as you from a sexual relationship is very likely to understand this and not be put off. It might make some people think twice only if they aren't sure whether they want something serious.
posted by Polychrome at 3:27 AM on April 7, 2017
I think this would probably only be a "red flag" to people who were not looking for something serious or were just looking for casual sex. This is okay because you're not looking for casual sex! Anyone who wants the same thing as you from a sexual relationship is very likely to understand this and not be put off. It might make some people think twice only if they aren't sure whether they want something serious.
posted by Polychrome at 3:27 AM on April 7, 2017
I still get bummed when it doesn't work out with a guy and then I wonder what I'm doing wrong?
Dating is a total numbers game, even for the most date-able people. It's normal to date a bunch of people unsuccessfully. The vast majority of romantic encounters are unsuccessful!
That said, one thing jumped out at me... It's really, really amazing that you're so self-assured. That's a great asset. But make sure you're showing these qualities instead of telling dates about them. I.e., don't actually say the words, "I've got a huge heart, great personality. I'm pretty and have a great laugh and I'm an all around great person" in your online dating profiles or in person. Confidence is attractive but saying these things aloud can read as arrogant, which isn't appealing.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 7:00 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Dating is a total numbers game, even for the most date-able people. It's normal to date a bunch of people unsuccessfully. The vast majority of romantic encounters are unsuccessful!
That said, one thing jumped out at me... It's really, really amazing that you're so self-assured. That's a great asset. But make sure you're showing these qualities instead of telling dates about them. I.e., don't actually say the words, "I've got a huge heart, great personality. I'm pretty and have a great laugh and I'm an all around great person" in your online dating profiles or in person. Confidence is attractive but saying these things aloud can read as arrogant, which isn't appealing.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 7:00 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
It seems like a lot of your description of your dating history is very self-focused. You're struggling so much to find things that you did wrong or that you need to change about your own approach that it makes me wonder if you're leaving room to consider what it is that you would like.
It may seem counterintuitive, but maybe try turning your mindset around - away from turning yourself into the perfect partner for some hypothetical guy, and towards finding an awesome partner for you. Because one of the most engaging things about dating is the feeling that this person is really, really into you. If you can find guys that you might feel that way about (and maybe take some time to think about what qualities trigger that in you) and focus on pursuing them, I think you may find that they are way less likely to vanish on you.
posted by parallellines at 7:05 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
It may seem counterintuitive, but maybe try turning your mindset around - away from turning yourself into the perfect partner for some hypothetical guy, and towards finding an awesome partner for you. Because one of the most engaging things about dating is the feeling that this person is really, really into you. If you can find guys that you might feel that way about (and maybe take some time to think about what qualities trigger that in you) and focus on pursuing them, I think you may find that they are way less likely to vanish on you.
posted by parallellines at 7:05 AM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
I wonder if you shouldn't skip the online dating and go more local. When is the last time you felt attracted to someone? Who was it? What happened? There's this thing where you feel attracted *zing* and then you try to get closer, feel them out, flirt. Then comes the panic? Why the panic because the next steps involve vulnerability. Putting yourself out there, risking rejection or EVEN SCARIER...not rejection! And then comes intimacy and, well, it's quite a heady roller-coaster. Where in this process do you hold yourself back? Be honest with yourself and don't let yourself off the hook.
Pay attention to that *zing* when and if it happens. Let the zing out to play a little more. If you have potential partners in your social circle, start there.
posted by amanda at 7:20 AM on April 7, 2017
Pay attention to that *zing* when and if it happens. Let the zing out to play a little more. If you have potential partners in your social circle, start there.
posted by amanda at 7:20 AM on April 7, 2017
If you don't want the same thing to keep on happening, you have to change something in your approach. People who are telling you to keep banging your head against the wall aren't helping you.
There are two completely different questions here. The first is "why don't I get a second date after a first date with someone I met online" and the second is "all other dating situations".
A first date from online is a PRE-ATTRACTION date. His profile may not have been accurate, or yours (make sure this doesn't apply to you -- get an HONEST friend to assess your profile and pictures HONESTLY). Even with honest profiles, there may just not be chemistry for any number of a hundred reasons. After you've validated your profile, the only thing you can change up is to broaden your requirements in some reasonable fashion. Take a look at your sisters' or girlfriends' or coworkers husbands: you'll probably find that they exhibit a FAR greater variance in geography, age, education, career, height, weight and race than your search criteria permit. Don't do anything you don't want to do, but don't impose constraints upon yourself that are empirically unreasonable.
As for all other dates -- understand that men are pretty narrow in their tastes, and men who are interested in a 30 year old woman for a girlfriend are simpler still. They want a woman who is pretty, supportive and competent. Some want a woman who is smart and accomplished, others aren't as focused on that. Very few care about your self-esteem or how you came by it; which is not to say that they are attracted to low self-esteem, just that's not a salient characteristic they think about.
They will care about your relationship history but if they're decent they will be circumspect about asking about it, for every one who wants someone who has a lot of romantic and sexual experience, there will be two or more who for cultural, religious or personal preference reasons will prefer someone with less experience. For many of the latter, no experience is unquestionably better than low experience. For others, no experience may not be a red flag so much as a yellow flag -- something to be curious about. No experience because you were in a monastery but realized that your vocation was for being a wife and mother and not a nun before your final vows? Cool. No experience because you demand utter perfection in everything from a man at all times and places; maybe a bit of an issue. Etc.
posted by MattD at 8:09 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
There are two completely different questions here. The first is "why don't I get a second date after a first date with someone I met online" and the second is "all other dating situations".
A first date from online is a PRE-ATTRACTION date. His profile may not have been accurate, or yours (make sure this doesn't apply to you -- get an HONEST friend to assess your profile and pictures HONESTLY). Even with honest profiles, there may just not be chemistry for any number of a hundred reasons. After you've validated your profile, the only thing you can change up is to broaden your requirements in some reasonable fashion. Take a look at your sisters' or girlfriends' or coworkers husbands: you'll probably find that they exhibit a FAR greater variance in geography, age, education, career, height, weight and race than your search criteria permit. Don't do anything you don't want to do, but don't impose constraints upon yourself that are empirically unreasonable.
As for all other dates -- understand that men are pretty narrow in their tastes, and men who are interested in a 30 year old woman for a girlfriend are simpler still. They want a woman who is pretty, supportive and competent. Some want a woman who is smart and accomplished, others aren't as focused on that. Very few care about your self-esteem or how you came by it; which is not to say that they are attracted to low self-esteem, just that's not a salient characteristic they think about.
They will care about your relationship history but if they're decent they will be circumspect about asking about it, for every one who wants someone who has a lot of romantic and sexual experience, there will be two or more who for cultural, religious or personal preference reasons will prefer someone with less experience. For many of the latter, no experience is unquestionably better than low experience. For others, no experience may not be a red flag so much as a yellow flag -- something to be curious about. No experience because you were in a monastery but realized that your vocation was for being a wife and mother and not a nun before your final vows? Cool. No experience because you demand utter perfection in everything from a man at all times and places; maybe a bit of an issue. Etc.
posted by MattD at 8:09 AM on April 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
It sounds cliché, but the right person will be proud to be your first. Even if you aren't destined to be together forever. You can and will have a meaningful, tender experience with a decent guy.
When you're doing the relationship-history chat on date 2 or whenever, you can pull out a stock phrase like, "Oh, what can I say?!" If you want, you can add, "I've had some relationships, sure, but I'm not much of a dater." Anyone half-worthwhile will be fine with this. If you want, you can say, with a rueful laugh, "It's been a while," if sex per se is brought up. You can reveal that you haven't done this before if you WANT, but you don't have to. A normal guy in your age range will understand if you finesse these questions.
I am no big dater myself, but I can't imagine anyone normal asking about my "number" or the last time I had sex. I did once "go out," if you dig me, with someone who made fun of me, not entirely gently, for my lack of experience in the field, and I wish I had had the strength to walk right out of there!
You'll be fine. There are lots of good people out there.
posted by 8603 at 11:26 AM on April 7, 2017
When you're doing the relationship-history chat on date 2 or whenever, you can pull out a stock phrase like, "Oh, what can I say?!" If you want, you can add, "I've had some relationships, sure, but I'm not much of a dater." Anyone half-worthwhile will be fine with this. If you want, you can say, with a rueful laugh, "It's been a while," if sex per se is brought up. You can reveal that you haven't done this before if you WANT, but you don't have to. A normal guy in your age range will understand if you finesse these questions.
I am no big dater myself, but I can't imagine anyone normal asking about my "number" or the last time I had sex. I did once "go out," if you dig me, with someone who made fun of me, not entirely gently, for my lack of experience in the field, and I wish I had had the strength to walk right out of there!
You'll be fine. There are lots of good people out there.
posted by 8603 at 11:26 AM on April 7, 2017
Response by poster: Wow, you all are some incredible people. I'm being serious, just the kind words you've all written have really helped me out so much. I'm still new to this website so I can't figure out how or if I can reply to each of you on this post individually, although I really want to. Do any of you know? I'm not sure what I was expecting, all I know is I've seen some very mean people write awful things to people in my situation and I feel so blessed you all were so considerate of my feelings and giving me hope. To the others who wrote they are in a similar situation, I wish you the best of luck and I'm sure it will all work out for us!
posted by Countrycutie1986 at 4:42 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Countrycutie1986 at 4:42 PM on April 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Countrycutie1986: I'm still new to this website so I can't figure out how or if I can reply to each of you on this post individually, although I really want to. Do any of you know?
AskMetafilter isn't generally considered to be a dialogue, so you're not intended to reply to each post individually. You'd probably get deleted for doing that in the thread. The convention for replying to something someone has said in a thread is to quote some part of the message in italics and then respond, as I've done with your post. Some people also put the name of the person they're responding to in front of the quote. But do that sparingly where necessary, not just to thank people.
If you want to send people private messages re: what they wrote here, you can click on their username to go to their profile and hit the "Send MeFiMail" link under their username there. Some people have MeFiMail disabled, though, so if there is no link, that's why.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:37 PM on April 7, 2017
AskMetafilter isn't generally considered to be a dialogue, so you're not intended to reply to each post individually. You'd probably get deleted for doing that in the thread. The convention for replying to something someone has said in a thread is to quote some part of the message in italics and then respond, as I've done with your post. Some people also put the name of the person they're responding to in front of the quote. But do that sparingly where necessary, not just to thank people.
If you want to send people private messages re: what they wrote here, you can click on their username to go to their profile and hit the "Send MeFiMail" link under their username there. Some people have MeFiMail disabled, though, so if there is no link, that's why.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:37 PM on April 7, 2017
Response by poster: Thank you all so much! I really appreciate your kind words. And for explaining to me how this forum works.
I do see that maybe I've been unintentionally sabotaging my chances at love because it is scary to NOT BE REJECTED but instead find love! Cuz that means being vulnerable and putting myself out there. I know that's what I want, and I'm actively fixing that issue.
To all of you in a similar boat as me I wish you the best of luck in your search. I've noticed people playing games, both men and women, which makes dating so much harder. It's happened to me, and both my female and male friends.
This ghosting bs drives me nuts, I always let a guy know if I'm not feeling it, and I kindly wish him the best of luck and I enjoyed getting to know him even if we weren't a match. The way I see it is I've been ghosted and left wondering and I don't want someone else to feel like they're less than. I try to spread the kindness around, even if it doesn't work out with me, I hope that my compassion gives him hope in finding the right woman for him.
To everyone who met the love of their life later on, your stories touched my heart and is encouraging me to put myself out there more. To go up to that cute stranger at the grocery store etc. You never know what can happen from a simple conversation.
I must be getting close, because everywhere I go now, there are tons of guys I'm attracted to. It didn't used to be like that, so I must be doing something right. ☺
I was so happy to see that people who had been in marriages or long term relationship before they met some of you didn't judge you because of your lack of experience. Sometimes I think how can I compete but then I remember it's not a competition and it's about what two people share.
I feel a lot better about things after hearing from all of you. Everyone is right, my past doesn't dictate my future and we all have things we're not thrilled about sharing about ourselves, but with the right person, it won't matter.
Your comments have helped me tremendously and I hope it can give others in my situation hope ☺
posted by Countrycutie1986 at 7:19 PM on April 10, 2017
I do see that maybe I've been unintentionally sabotaging my chances at love because it is scary to NOT BE REJECTED but instead find love! Cuz that means being vulnerable and putting myself out there. I know that's what I want, and I'm actively fixing that issue.
To all of you in a similar boat as me I wish you the best of luck in your search. I've noticed people playing games, both men and women, which makes dating so much harder. It's happened to me, and both my female and male friends.
This ghosting bs drives me nuts, I always let a guy know if I'm not feeling it, and I kindly wish him the best of luck and I enjoyed getting to know him even if we weren't a match. The way I see it is I've been ghosted and left wondering and I don't want someone else to feel like they're less than. I try to spread the kindness around, even if it doesn't work out with me, I hope that my compassion gives him hope in finding the right woman for him.
To everyone who met the love of their life later on, your stories touched my heart and is encouraging me to put myself out there more. To go up to that cute stranger at the grocery store etc. You never know what can happen from a simple conversation.
I must be getting close, because everywhere I go now, there are tons of guys I'm attracted to. It didn't used to be like that, so I must be doing something right. ☺
I was so happy to see that people who had been in marriages or long term relationship before they met some of you didn't judge you because of your lack of experience. Sometimes I think how can I compete but then I remember it's not a competition and it's about what two people share.
I feel a lot better about things after hearing from all of you. Everyone is right, my past doesn't dictate my future and we all have things we're not thrilled about sharing about ourselves, but with the right person, it won't matter.
Your comments have helped me tremendously and I hope it can give others in my situation hope ☺
posted by Countrycutie1986 at 7:19 PM on April 10, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
About the learning curve with relationships--- i don't think you need to worry about that! Lots of people don't get the chance to learn how to be in a relationship until they're in one, and if you're open minded and honest about your feelings, I think you'll feel your way into it and you'll know what you're doing when it comes down to it.
I don't think the being a virgin thing is really a big deal especially for women. Yeah, for guys, they need to learn how females body works in order to make the women enjoy sex at all. So yeah, for young guys that are virgins, it's a bit weirder. But for you I don't think it's a problem at all. Just don't build it up in your head too much--- it's not that big of a deal, its just the cherry on top of the cake.
you're starting out from a great place in that you know your own value and worth and you don't depend on a guy to give you your self esteem. In that way, you're more advanced than a lot of people who get embroiled in unhealthy relationships because they're not strong enough to be alone. Starting dating when you're already more emotionally mature, could actually be a benefit and you could look at it this way-- you saved yourself a lot of meaningless heartache in your early 20's.
posted by winterportage at 6:20 PM on April 6, 2017