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January 12, 2006 12:50 PM Subscribe
Dating the divorced...advice, anyone?
I'm in my mid-30s and have started doing some internet dating. The idea of internet dating still feels pretty strange to me all on its own; now I'm having trouble figuring out how to handle the added negotiations involved in getting to know guys who are divorced. I know there are no rules, but does anyone have advice about how and when to discuss the question, 'soooo.....why the divorce?'
Just feels odd to me. I'm childless and have never been married, and this question arises because of a promising prospective datee with kids and an ex-wife and shared custody and the whole nine yards. It's just new territory. Any wisdom?
I'm in my mid-30s and have started doing some internet dating. The idea of internet dating still feels pretty strange to me all on its own; now I'm having trouble figuring out how to handle the added negotiations involved in getting to know guys who are divorced. I know there are no rules, but does anyone have advice about how and when to discuss the question, 'soooo.....why the divorce?'
Just feels odd to me. I'm childless and have never been married, and this question arises because of a promising prospective datee with kids and an ex-wife and shared custody and the whole nine yards. It's just new territory. Any wisdom?
Speaking as "the divorced" (well, soon to be), just ask.
It's a normal question, everyone knows you're dying to ask, so do it. I'm not offended when people do. If it was top secret people wouldn't say "divorced," on the site, they would just say "single."
Just preface it with a "hope I'm not being rude/ if you don't mind discussing it/ I don't mean to pry, but" and ask.
And, if someone gets all bizarre, rants about how evil the ex is, cries, or so on when you do, well, it's a damn useful way to weed out those who are perhaps not quite ready to rejoin the dating world just yet.
posted by Kellydamnit at 1:12 PM on January 12, 2006 [2 favorites]
It's a normal question, everyone knows you're dying to ask, so do it. I'm not offended when people do. If it was top secret people wouldn't say "divorced," on the site, they would just say "single."
Just preface it with a "hope I'm not being rude/ if you don't mind discussing it/ I don't mean to pry, but" and ask.
And, if someone gets all bizarre, rants about how evil the ex is, cries, or so on when you do, well, it's a damn useful way to weed out those who are perhaps not quite ready to rejoin the dating world just yet.
posted by Kellydamnit at 1:12 PM on January 12, 2006 [2 favorites]
Having been divorced and having met my current wife through an Internet dating site, I would suggest you ask "soooo... why the divorce?". It's not an inappropriate question. In my case it was getting married too young and for the wrong reasons. No kids and five years later it was just an example of a committed relationship that didn't work out (In my case, she left me). I think from my current wife's perspective my divorce was no different than any long term relationship that had gone flat (lasted 5 years). I would hesitate to guess that it at least showed I was capable of commitment, if not always being the best judge of character in my younger days.
Not a taboo question and you should get a straight answer. Good way to see how someone talks about past relationships too. Are they full of blame? Do they get along with their ex? Did they learn anything from the experience? etc. Having kids and such can also complicate things and you should know about it. You also need to start thinking about how you feel with someone who already has a family. Lots of dynamics that you will be getting yourself into. Best to get all concerns out in the open up front. But there is time to go into all the details after you see that there is lots of sparks.
If you are concerned about the question, save it for date two when you at least know you are somewhat interested in seeing things through. If you already know it's doomed from date no. one, than just pass.
posted by qwip at 1:15 PM on January 12, 2006 [1 favorite]
Not a taboo question and you should get a straight answer. Good way to see how someone talks about past relationships too. Are they full of blame? Do they get along with their ex? Did they learn anything from the experience? etc. Having kids and such can also complicate things and you should know about it. You also need to start thinking about how you feel with someone who already has a family. Lots of dynamics that you will be getting yourself into. Best to get all concerns out in the open up front. But there is time to go into all the details after you see that there is lots of sparks.
If you are concerned about the question, save it for date two when you at least know you are somewhat interested in seeing things through. If you already know it's doomed from date no. one, than just pass.
posted by qwip at 1:15 PM on January 12, 2006 [1 favorite]
My first marriage ended in divorce, and then I did the online dating thing (and that's how I met my husband) and the "soo....why the divorce?" question is absolutely within bounds. Maybe not on the first date, but if it's someone you've seen a few times and plan to keep seeing, go ahead and ask. How long it has been since the divorce is also a fair question, as footnote points out.
I didn't have any kids, however, and the shared-custody thing is a whole different can of worms.
posted by ambrosia at 1:20 PM on January 12, 2006
I didn't have any kids, however, and the shared-custody thing is a whole different can of worms.
posted by ambrosia at 1:20 PM on January 12, 2006
Generally, I find it best to just not bring the topic up. It'll come up on it's own at some point. When it does, pay attention and listen.
For the most part though, it shouldn't matter to you. The only time it should be important and you should take it into consideration is if there was some form of abuse involved, mental or physical. In which case, you should be very sensitive to the situation.
The rest of the time, it'll be a difference of opinions. A divorce tends to be very two sided. Each party has their own version of what happened, which can be very close or vastly different. Each party will also have valid points, and you won't be able to understand the true reason without knowing both sides. As you most likely will never get to know the other side, you'll have no way of knowing what is the truth. Not to say that the person will lie to you, just that their perception of the issue is most likely clouded with frustration at the least, and anger at the most.
In the past, I tend to listen, understand, and not be involved in any part of the divorce aspect. Anyone you are with should understand that. Be supportive, and realize that they are no longer together, but due to the kids they will have to remain civil and a part of each other's lives for some time to come. If you are somehow forced to take sides later on down the line, take the side of the children.
posted by Phynix at 1:24 PM on January 12, 2006 [1 favorite]
For the most part though, it shouldn't matter to you. The only time it should be important and you should take it into consideration is if there was some form of abuse involved, mental or physical. In which case, you should be very sensitive to the situation.
The rest of the time, it'll be a difference of opinions. A divorce tends to be very two sided. Each party has their own version of what happened, which can be very close or vastly different. Each party will also have valid points, and you won't be able to understand the true reason without knowing both sides. As you most likely will never get to know the other side, you'll have no way of knowing what is the truth. Not to say that the person will lie to you, just that their perception of the issue is most likely clouded with frustration at the least, and anger at the most.
In the past, I tend to listen, understand, and not be involved in any part of the divorce aspect. Anyone you are with should understand that. Be supportive, and realize that they are no longer together, but due to the kids they will have to remain civil and a part of each other's lives for some time to come. If you are somehow forced to take sides later on down the line, take the side of the children.
posted by Phynix at 1:24 PM on January 12, 2006 [1 favorite]
Like qwip, I've been divorced and met my current wife through an Internet dating site. Unless the divorce is really in the misty past, it may still be something that occupies the guy's thoughts to some extent, but with any luck he'll be smart enough not to bring it up himself. If you bring it up, you give him permission to talk about it and get it out of the way. And I agree with qwup that what he has to say can give you some insight into the guy.
posted by adamrice at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2006
posted by adamrice at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2006
I've been divorced, and I met (and dated) several divorced women, via the internet and otherwise (and I married one of them). I'm pretty open, so I'd respond well to a simple, direct "soooo.....why the divorce?" If he doesn't want to talk about it, he can say so. I agree with Kellydamnit that it can serve as a good "filter," too. Sure, maybe you want to wait until the second date, but it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. But be prepared for his "soooo.....why still single at 35?"
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:27 PM on January 12, 2006
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:27 PM on January 12, 2006
Response by poster: be prepared for his "soooo.....why still single at 35?"
Yeah, I was actually going to put that into my question but decided it was a separate topic. A very fair question though, and one I have pretty well scripted.
posted by Miko at 1:30 PM on January 12, 2006
Yeah, I was actually going to put that into my question but decided it was a separate topic. A very fair question though, and one I have pretty well scripted.
posted by Miko at 1:30 PM on January 12, 2006
Almost everyone I dated post-divorce either stringently avoided asking me about it ("lalalala you just said the d-word, I can't hear you, lalalala!"), OR asked about it in a negative way -- something along the lines of "wow, divorced, huh? That sounds terrible" or "so, was your ex-husband a real dick or something? Did he cheat on you?"
Both these approaches irritated me to varying degrees. The former approach, though probably based in a sense of wanting to be polite, not pry, etc., was a little weird because it treated a divorce as somehow taboo. The latter tended to actually piss me off a bit, because it assumed that there had to be a villain in the scenario. I never quite knew if those guys actually believed me when I'd say -- completely truthfully -- that it was a pretty amicable divorce and that my ex-husband is a good guy and a good friend; we just really weren't cut out to be married to each other.
The most excellent approach about my divorce came on the first date with the guy who's now my boyfriend. He asked why I moved to LA and I gave my usual "I was going through a divorce and it was a good opporunity to move out here to be near my family, etc." answer. Instead of replying, "oh, divorce, how awful," he immediately said in a very positive, curious tone, "oh, interesting. Did you enjoy being married? What was that like?"
No one had ever approached the question like that, and it opened up the topic/conversation in a completely different way. (It also was the moment on the date where I kind of sat up and took notice of him beyond the immediate first impression of finding him attractive and funny.)
posted by scody at 1:34 PM on January 12, 2006 [2 favorites]
Both these approaches irritated me to varying degrees. The former approach, though probably based in a sense of wanting to be polite, not pry, etc., was a little weird because it treated a divorce as somehow taboo. The latter tended to actually piss me off a bit, because it assumed that there had to be a villain in the scenario. I never quite knew if those guys actually believed me when I'd say -- completely truthfully -- that it was a pretty amicable divorce and that my ex-husband is a good guy and a good friend; we just really weren't cut out to be married to each other.
The most excellent approach about my divorce came on the first date with the guy who's now my boyfriend. He asked why I moved to LA and I gave my usual "I was going through a divorce and it was a good opporunity to move out here to be near my family, etc." answer. Instead of replying, "oh, divorce, how awful," he immediately said in a very positive, curious tone, "oh, interesting. Did you enjoy being married? What was that like?"
No one had ever approached the question like that, and it opened up the topic/conversation in a completely different way. (It also was the moment on the date where I kind of sat up and took notice of him beyond the immediate first impression of finding him attractive and funny.)
posted by scody at 1:34 PM on January 12, 2006 [2 favorites]
It's also possible that, if a man does a lot of dating, he might have a pat answer that he gives out casually, but have all kinds of issues that might surface later. I dated a guy for six weeks before I started to suspect he was not yet over his ex.
When I originally asked him about his divorce, his answer was very calm and composed and he talked about incompatibilities and differing goals. Totally understandable stuff.
By the end of the six weeks, he had told me--in bits and pieces, mostly unsolicited--about both their mental health issues during and after the marriage, and a bunch of recent communication he'd had with her (purely as a supportive friend, you understand). He also gave a few hints about the issues she had had with him (based on things she'd said to him over the time they'd known each other), which he claimed not to understand...but I was sure starting to.
When he mentioned casually that his ex had once called him "psychologically abusive", I matched that up with my observations about him and left. Call me skittish, but it was all starting to add up, and I like to think of myself as someone who can take a clue.
My mom once told me, "If someone is telling you things about himself, LISTEN. Never discount it. There is truth in it somewhere." Keep an open mind and open ears as a relationship progresses.
BTW, I think "Why still single at 35?" is a legitimate question from a guy whom you've just asked about his divorce, but listen to the tone in which he asks it, and his follow-up questions. If your instincts are telling you that this guy is thinking of you as a flawed product left sitting on a shelf, you are probably right, and you don't need him.
posted by gillyflower at 1:53 PM on January 12, 2006 [2 favorites]
When I originally asked him about his divorce, his answer was very calm and composed and he talked about incompatibilities and differing goals. Totally understandable stuff.
By the end of the six weeks, he had told me--in bits and pieces, mostly unsolicited--about both their mental health issues during and after the marriage, and a bunch of recent communication he'd had with her (purely as a supportive friend, you understand). He also gave a few hints about the issues she had had with him (based on things she'd said to him over the time they'd known each other), which he claimed not to understand...but I was sure starting to.
When he mentioned casually that his ex had once called him "psychologically abusive", I matched that up with my observations about him and left. Call me skittish, but it was all starting to add up, and I like to think of myself as someone who can take a clue.
My mom once told me, "If someone is telling you things about himself, LISTEN. Never discount it. There is truth in it somewhere." Keep an open mind and open ears as a relationship progresses.
BTW, I think "Why still single at 35?" is a legitimate question from a guy whom you've just asked about his divorce, but listen to the tone in which he asks it, and his follow-up questions. If your instincts are telling you that this guy is thinking of you as a flawed product left sitting on a shelf, you are probably right, and you don't need him.
posted by gillyflower at 1:53 PM on January 12, 2006 [2 favorites]
Having been divorced and having met my current wife through the Internet......
There is no right or wrong way to ask. And any divorced man who is still actively dating will have had it asked any number of ways. It's really no big deal in terms of date questions. At all.
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:06 PM on January 12, 2006
There is no right or wrong way to ask. And any divorced man who is still actively dating will have had it asked any number of ways. It's really no big deal in terms of date questions. At all.
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:06 PM on January 12, 2006
For the most part though, it shouldn't matter to you. The only time it should be important and you should take it into consideration is if there was some form of abuse involved, mental or physical. In which case, you should be very sensitive to the situation.
posted by Phynix at 1:24 PM PST on January 12 [!]
I really disagree with this in some respects. You definitely need to find out whether the person is ready to be dating again. If you have the "it shouldn't matter" attitude, then you might ignore the kinds of signs that gillyflower tuned into... On the other hand, if the divorce was long in the past and it's clear that your date is ready to be dating, then I think the gist of what Phynix's approach seems like a wise way to deal with things.
posted by footnote at 2:26 PM on January 12, 2006
posted by Phynix at 1:24 PM PST on January 12 [!]
I really disagree with this in some respects. You definitely need to find out whether the person is ready to be dating again. If you have the "it shouldn't matter" attitude, then you might ignore the kinds of signs that gillyflower tuned into... On the other hand, if the divorce was long in the past and it's clear that your date is ready to be dating, then I think the gist of what Phynix's approach seems like a wise way to deal with things.
posted by footnote at 2:26 PM on January 12, 2006
when gillyflower offers advice, listen very carefully. Really - when someone shares about themselves, particularly in the initial few months of a relationship, be very attentive to what they say, and also to what topics they will not address.
And this advice goes beyond whether the potential SO is divorced or not.
Back to the question about dating a divorced man: I think a potentially challenging issue is the presence of the former spouse - particularly if there is a child from the marriage and there is joint custody.
Watch carefully how your potential-SO interacts with the ex, and listen carefully how your potential-SO talks about the ex. Will the ongoing relationship with the ex create unpleasant overhead in *your* relationship? Eg, will your future-SO whinge about the ex, or will you feel threatened by the ex's civil interactions with the ex?
And, if there is a child from the former marriage, will you see the child as competition (for the parent will love the child in a much different way than they will grow to love a new SO) or will you embrace and welcome this young person into your life?
posted by seawallrunner at 4:32 PM on January 12, 2006 [3 favorites]
And this advice goes beyond whether the potential SO is divorced or not.
Back to the question about dating a divorced man: I think a potentially challenging issue is the presence of the former spouse - particularly if there is a child from the marriage and there is joint custody.
Watch carefully how your potential-SO interacts with the ex, and listen carefully how your potential-SO talks about the ex. Will the ongoing relationship with the ex create unpleasant overhead in *your* relationship? Eg, will your future-SO whinge about the ex, or will you feel threatened by the ex's civil interactions with the ex?
And, if there is a child from the former marriage, will you see the child as competition (for the parent will love the child in a much different way than they will grow to love a new SO) or will you embrace and welcome this young person into your life?
posted by seawallrunner at 4:32 PM on January 12, 2006 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I really want to thank all of you for your thoughtful responses. I feel both reassured about asking, and alerted to some of the serious considerations I should hold in mind if things progress. Much appreciated.
If your instincts are telling you that this guy is thinking of you as a flawed product...you don't need him.
This is a nice point. We're all flawed. Being married (/divorced, /single, /whatever) doesn't confer any exemption from that. Your comment made me realize that while I'll definitely need to explain the reasons I have never married, I don't have to endure anyone's negative judgement of them.
posted by Miko at 6:23 PM on January 12, 2006
If your instincts are telling you that this guy is thinking of you as a flawed product...you don't need him.
This is a nice point. We're all flawed. Being married (/divorced, /single, /whatever) doesn't confer any exemption from that. Your comment made me realize that while I'll definitely need to explain the reasons I have never married, I don't have to endure anyone's negative judgement of them.
posted by Miko at 6:23 PM on January 12, 2006
Being divorced and recently dating, I can offer this anecdotal knowledge...
I felt like I was wearing a scarlet "D" on my shirt, likening it to being a recently paroled con in flaming orange jumpsuit - I felt like no one was really going to trust or want me because of the stigma that came with a failed marriage. I was wrong, and have been seeing someone, but it has taken a lot of time, and some very long and detailed conversations...a lot of openness.
Look to see if he's being honest with himself and you. Divorces cause very deep wounds, and I don't think they ever really, fully, completely heal. But you cope and you move on. Best he can do, best I can do, y'know?
posted by TeamBilly at 6:36 PM on January 12, 2006
I felt like I was wearing a scarlet "D" on my shirt, likening it to being a recently paroled con in flaming orange jumpsuit - I felt like no one was really going to trust or want me because of the stigma that came with a failed marriage. I was wrong, and have been seeing someone, but it has taken a lot of time, and some very long and detailed conversations...a lot of openness.
Look to see if he's being honest with himself and you. Divorces cause very deep wounds, and I don't think they ever really, fully, completely heal. But you cope and you move on. Best he can do, best I can do, y'know?
posted by TeamBilly at 6:36 PM on January 12, 2006
I really disagree with this in some respects. You definitely need to find out whether the person is ready to be dating again.
This is something you have to deal with, when divorce isn't an issue as well. I've seen people get hung up on a past SO longer then some people take to get over a divorce.
The idea that I was trying to bring across, is that you shouldn't really treat him different then any other guy. He'll give off signs if he isn't really ready, just like any other guy that's not interested in a serious relationship.
With the kids in the picture, you really just need to approach the situation with the realization that he's going to have other commitments, and if you find it to annoy you after a bit, don't waste anymore of your or his time on it.
Oh, something I would suggest you bring up in the first few dates, if you hit it off, is kids. Not his though. What I'm saying is, if you want kids of your own, and he's finished with that stage of your life, that's another time to call it just friends.
posted by Phynix at 11:27 PM on January 12, 2006
This is something you have to deal with, when divorce isn't an issue as well. I've seen people get hung up on a past SO longer then some people take to get over a divorce.
The idea that I was trying to bring across, is that you shouldn't really treat him different then any other guy. He'll give off signs if he isn't really ready, just like any other guy that's not interested in a serious relationship.
With the kids in the picture, you really just need to approach the situation with the realization that he's going to have other commitments, and if you find it to annoy you after a bit, don't waste anymore of your or his time on it.
Oh, something I would suggest you bring up in the first few dates, if you hit it off, is kids. Not his though. What I'm saying is, if you want kids of your own, and he's finished with that stage of your life, that's another time to call it just friends.
posted by Phynix at 11:27 PM on January 12, 2006
I felt like no one was really going to trust or want me because of the stigma that came with a failed marriage.
It's not so much the stigma of failure as the potential for falling into a rebound relationship that's the problem with dating the recently divorced. Maybe some rebounds can work out, but not in my experience, and I don't care to do further research! But I do hope it works out for you, TeamBilly.
I've seen people get hung up on a past SO longer then some people take to get over a divorce.
That's a good point, although it's the kids (usually in the context of marriage) that makes divorce really sticky.
you shouldn't really treat him different then any other guy. He'll give off signs if he isn't really ready, just like any other guy that's not interested in a serious relationship.
I still disagree here. The problem with people on the rebound is that they sometimes think and say they are ready for a new relationship, and they plunge into the rebound with intensity and committment. You have to look beyond what the person says and does, because the nature of a rebound is that they actually do really, really want to be with you. Until they don't.
posted by footnote at 5:16 AM on January 13, 2006 [3 favorites]
It's not so much the stigma of failure as the potential for falling into a rebound relationship that's the problem with dating the recently divorced. Maybe some rebounds can work out, but not in my experience, and I don't care to do further research! But I do hope it works out for you, TeamBilly.
I've seen people get hung up on a past SO longer then some people take to get over a divorce.
That's a good point, although it's the kids (usually in the context of marriage) that makes divorce really sticky.
you shouldn't really treat him different then any other guy. He'll give off signs if he isn't really ready, just like any other guy that's not interested in a serious relationship.
I still disagree here. The problem with people on the rebound is that they sometimes think and say they are ready for a new relationship, and they plunge into the rebound with intensity and committment. You have to look beyond what the person says and does, because the nature of a rebound is that they actually do really, really want to be with you. Until they don't.
posted by footnote at 5:16 AM on January 13, 2006 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: This thread is now ancient, and has served its purpose. But as a followup/closer for the future reference of others:
Based on the discussion here, I decided to ask before we met. I waited until we were discussing sort-of serious matters like attitudes toward children and potential deal-breakers, so it felt quite natural to bring up. The way I found to phrase it was "Are you comfortable talking about your divorce?" I figured that would give him an out if he wasn't ready to get into it with me. However, he was; he gave me a short version of the tale that proved very helpful in getting to know him (and about which I am still learning more all the time).
I'd also underscore the other advice in the thread. What the other person says, how they talk about this, is revealing and informative. I now agreee that it's definitely a 'must ask', and early on. And be aware that you'll keep coming back to it. This is an important part of the person and his or her relationship history. It will be a subject of discussion, and as a new datee or SO, you need to know something about it before moving into the deeper waters.
Thanks to all for your help with this.
posted by Miko at 1:50 PM on April 28, 2006 [4 favorites]
Based on the discussion here, I decided to ask before we met. I waited until we were discussing sort-of serious matters like attitudes toward children and potential deal-breakers, so it felt quite natural to bring up. The way I found to phrase it was "Are you comfortable talking about your divorce?" I figured that would give him an out if he wasn't ready to get into it with me. However, he was; he gave me a short version of the tale that proved very helpful in getting to know him (and about which I am still learning more all the time).
I'd also underscore the other advice in the thread. What the other person says, how they talk about this, is revealing and informative. I now agreee that it's definitely a 'must ask', and early on. And be aware that you'll keep coming back to it. This is an important part of the person and his or her relationship history. It will be a subject of discussion, and as a new datee or SO, you need to know something about it before moving into the deeper waters.
Thanks to all for your help with this.
posted by Miko at 1:50 PM on April 28, 2006 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by footnote at 1:08 PM on January 12, 2006 [1 favorite]