Should I respond when I see postings like this?

December 16, 2016 1:18 AM

Post-election, I keep struggling with the urge to respond to comments on news sites when I strongly disagree with the comments. I can't seem to stop looking at them, yet I know it's a futile, life-destroying game of whack-a-mole at best. What are other people's strategies for dealing with this?

Example: I read this article in BuzzFeed about Obama taking action against Russian election interference, then out of curiousity glanced at the comments and saw that (at least at the time) virtually all were of the form "of course this is all complete fabrication and lies by the dems". I really want to reply with reasonable information and pointers to evidence. But doing that takes a lot of time, which I don't have, and worse, there are far more of them than there are of me. Yet if I don't do something, I feel I'm not doing enough to help our country and society.

How do you resolve this conflict? How do you help, but keep it from consuming your entire waking life?

posted by StrawberryPie to Society & Culture (32 answers total)

Well, considering the vote count, there is more of you than there is of them.

My strategy is not to read the comments, and invest my time in situations where there is a better opportunity of communicating ideas properly, of having a dialogue. I've changed some minds on my YouTube channel, where I take the time to elaborate on concepts that are not so clear to some people, but I've changed more on the many face to face debates to which my life of activism has taken me (and I've learned a thing or two as well).
posted by Promethea at 1:38 AM on December 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I believe hardly anyone reads these comments except the kind of people who post them, so engaging is doubly futile and a poor use of your time and energy. Do something positive in real life and don't read the comments.
posted by Segundus at 1:39 AM on December 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

Honestly I've taken a break from most news. It's a total shit show out there and the worst hasn't even happened yet... I'm saving my strength for actionable horrors and avoiding all the speculation and predictions about just how quickly and by which method Prez. Rump trashes this country.
posted by saradarlin at 1:41 AM on December 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

You move on by accepting that you aren't going to change their minds.

The people who are motivated to make comments like these on news stories are not the type of people who will be swayed by evidence and reason. Anything that contradicts their world view is part of a conspiracy of lies.

Even if you feel like you should be reaching out to people to try to change minds, news comments are not the way to do it. The way they are displayed means that good comments quickly get buried. People tend to leave comments and then not come back. And then there is the problem that some of the people you try to engage may very well be knowing, deliberate trolls.

Changing minds is a cumulative process and takes time. You need to just let those comments go. Don't even look at them. There are browser widgets you can install to block them even.

You should also take this energy you have and put it towards more productive methods. Reach out to people you know and have a personal connection with. Volunteer and donate to political action campaigns that are doing good work. I find that if you are actually doing something to make a difference, it is easier to let these smaller things side, because you are picking your battles, not abdicating responsibility.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:07 AM on December 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

The lack of a counternarrative, lack of engagement with the "other side", is problematic. What you need is about 3-4 friends who can reinforce you, so that you know you're not the only voice out there.
posted by amtho at 2:08 AM on December 16, 2016

According to the ancients the secret to persuading people was identifying which "modes of persuasion"--logic, emotion, appeal to respect for some great person -- lie open to you in any given situation.

In online comments I don't think there are a lot of these at any given time. I'd put my energy into organizing instead of fighting in comments because who there has signaled they are open to engaging in any kind of debate as opposed to just knee-jerk hating on the other side?
posted by johngoren at 2:24 AM on December 16, 2016

I go for leaving one thoughtful attempt at restating the truth which actually addresses a lie in a particular comment, and then if I follow that up, it's "sorry to hear you don't agree".

It's minimising my emotional engagement, and it's leaving a little bit of calm honesty in there, to give other people reassurance that it's normal to have normal views.

And the people with an addiction to rage? Well, they're 100% sure never to quit their rage-lie addiction if everything they see supports their view. You'll never knew what effect it has, though, because people normally deradicalise slowly and they can't point at one turning point.

TL;DR Write things if you can spare the effort. Don't hope to see the results.
posted by ambrosen at 3:09 AM on December 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

You write as if you are completely convinced that the Russians hacking/interfering with the election is indisputable, and it's your duty to correct people. Why? You don't have any smoking gun as of yet. Neither do these commenters have a smoking gun that this is fiction and manipulation. Either scenario is plausible based on what we know. Perhaps taking a step back and acknowledging that there's a lot up in the air right now is the best course. And with that comes less of an urge to prove people are wrong on the internet.
posted by naju at 3:19 AM on December 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

imo news comment sections are not a place where people are interested in arguing in good faith. it's really, really not metafilter. usually people just want to rage into the void because it gives them a sense of power. like, imagine trying to write refutations not only to the dumb letters to the editor in your local paper, but also all the letters that were too dumb even to be printed.

also -- and this is well-documented, not a conspiracy theory -- Russia pays people to troll on social media. so you might literally just end up arguing with Russian operatives.

all in all this is not a good use of time and energy imo. i would install an ad-blocker which will block many of these comment sections by default (the software that many sites use to run their comments also functions to track and monitor users for advertising purposes). UBlock Origin is a good bet.
posted by vogon_poet at 3:38 AM on December 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

I really don't fight anything anymore (because we're not going to change minds, especially not in a random comment section for some political article). IOW, nthing: "You move on by accepting that you aren't going to change their minds." But I did call someone out for using the term "Indian Giver" on a Facebook post the other day.
posted by getawaysticks at 3:40 AM on December 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

What are other people's strategies for dealing with this?

If you can't make peace with the fact that other people's opinion are maybe, just maybe, as valid as yours, then you are better off not reading the news comments altogether. There is a reason we usually consume the media that reinforce our own prejudices. It's because we don't want to be exposed to opinions that are contrary to ours.
posted by Kwadeng at 3:43 AM on December 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I occasionally need to engage with social media for work, on issues which are very political and where most of the comments are very negative. It is helpful for me to look out for the positive comments. Most people comment to complain or to be contrary. It makes me feel better to concentrate, even if but for a brief moment, on opinions with which I don't disagree. I can then read the horrible comments with a protective degree of separation.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 4:44 AM on December 16, 2016

I often have to remind myself of the relevant XKCD.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:50 AM on December 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'd have been giving advice about just walking away a month ago, but it seems to me that this is yet another battlefield we've abandoned to the trolls.

If it's Facebook, I feel like upvotes may be the most helpful. Otherwise, I've become fond of the long psychological troll: when you can tell someone is being defensive, call them on it and keep calling them on it until they stop replying.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:09 AM on December 16, 2016

I've blocked all news sources on Facebook, which helps a lot. If you don't see the story you don't click through to the comments.
posted by COD at 5:56 AM on December 16, 2016

Seconding that a not-insignificant number of these commenters are paid trolls. Watch this interview by Samantha Bee, it is pretty illuminating.
posted by gatorae at 6:01 AM on December 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

I... glanced at the comments and saw that (at least at the time) virtually all were of the form "of course this is all complete fabrication and lies by the dems". I really want to reply with reasonable information and pointers to evidence.

They will respond that your reasonable information and evidence are also complete fabrication and lies by the dems. What will you say then?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:04 AM on December 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

FWIW, I've decided that every time I feel like reading a political Blog i'll do a Duolingo Spanish lesson instead. I do between 5 and 25 a day.

In all seriousness, I don't have the mental space to engage right now, so I don't. As a side effect my anxiety went from "AAAAAHHH" to just "ahh."
posted by Ecgtheow at 6:12 AM on December 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Arguing in news website comment sections? Oh god, why would you do that??? I mean, I frickin' love to argue do not get me wrong, but this is the well-marked, lighted and paved route to madness right here. Half those people are paid trolls and the other half don't have the sense of a box full of more empty boxes.

If you must say something, set up a microdonation bookmark and instead of making an argument just leave a comment saying you've just tossed $organization that person would clearly hate $5 and leave it at that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:47 AM on December 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

shutup.css (browser extensions for Safari and Chrome, bookmarklet, included in some content blocker apps for iPhone and iPad) will hide a lot of major website comment sections. If not that, you have to train yourself not to keep scrolling when you get to the end of an article.

It's one thing to engage on a Facebook post of someone you know or friend-of-a-friend, but wading into the wild west of random news article comment sections just isn't worth your time. No one is going to have their mind changed by a stranger.

I know it can be addicting - I never responded but I used to be compelled to read comments and then would rant out loud about them to my boyfriend. I have a coworker who argues with trolls on Yahoo News articles. But for your own mental health you have to find a way to stop and put your considerable talent and good values to better use.
posted by misskaz at 6:55 AM on December 16, 2016

I suggest making a pledge to yourself: every time you read a seriously misinformed or hateful online comment, donate a set amount to Planned Parenthood, ACLU, or some other worthy organization. You'll get to respond to horrible comments by actually doing some good, and the financial pressure may encourage you to stop reading the comments all together.
posted by meese at 7:10 AM on December 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Arguing with people online is helpful in clarifying your own thoughts, since none of us knows 100 percent of what we think about every issue, every time. That's what we're talking on this site for I think? But I don't think it helps the nation or society and you are putting too much pressure on yourself to even consider that. And anyway, huge waves of opinion just dissolve and mutate in the blink of an eye when there are actual pre-revolutionary situations or at least just major political transitions, strikes, wars, etc.
posted by Coda Tronca at 7:10 AM on December 16, 2016

I only challenge people I personally know because those are the only minds I have any hope of changing. Some rando commenter on a news site does not care about you or your opinion whatsoever.
posted by AFABulous at 7:28 AM on December 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Fighting political comment section battles is as futile and soul crushing as engaging in obesity related comment section battles. There are some things it's best for your mental health to avoid.
posted by cecic at 9:20 AM on December 16, 2016

On FB I've taken to looking at the profile of the vilest people. And a couple of times I've noticed it is a recent profile with no friends, no interests listed and all activity geared towards disrupting news feeds. I report those as potentially fake profiles and have had a few of them shut down. It's now part of my daily routine.
posted by kariebookish at 9:21 AM on December 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

How do you resolve this conflict? How do you help, but keep it from consuming your entire waking life?

As already stated, not reading the comments is a healthy response, and, in many cases, the healthiest response.

But I am someone who often does read the comments (especially when explicitly told not to read the comments). I think this is a mostly healthy thing for me because my goal is not to change the minds of anyone in the comments, but to get insight into how the types of people who write those types of comments think.

I find that that insight is helpful, for me, when I encounter people either IRL, or closely connected via social media who are making similar statements. I've already seen the garbage, and thought of ways to refute it, so when the garbage gets spouted by someone who I think I maybe have a chance to influence it, I'm forearmed with a way of addressing it.

The trick, of course, is to have a good sense of "influenceability," and that depends on the topic, the person, and the context. Racists in online comment sections are pretty much impossible. Sexist friends-of-friends on facebook, it depends. Brother-in-law who is spouting misinformation about about the ACA over dinner ... I'll probably give it a go. And it's not just a right-wing thing either -- there are a number of topics that I just don't engage in on Metafilter anymore because some folks here are pretty entrenched in their beliefs and can get kind of nasty if you express dissent.

Which is really a long way of saying "pick your battles." And sometimes the "battle" is against your instinct to respond to stupidity online, and when that's the case the right answer is sometimes to not read the stupidity at all.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:42 AM on December 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

Nthing you don't know who you are engaging with and many are "planted" and this just isn't worth your time unless you are also getting paid or compensated yourself to do so!
posted by jbenben at 10:50 AM on December 16, 2016

You are playing to an invisible audience.

because who there has signaled they are open to engaging in any kind of debate as opposed to just knee-jerk hating on the other side?

Your counter-comments are not for those people who are posting; they are for the people reading who have not yet commented. That may be a small group, but it's a very important one, possibly the most important one. Often, they are young people, just solidifying their ideas. Don't let the angry, closed comments seem like "everybody".

Someone has to represent the other side. Be present. Be visible. Let logic and openness and compassion be visible.
posted by amtho at 10:59 AM on December 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

YES. It is important and here is why. Most of the post that are positive on trump are fake news trump trolls (computer bots) that are paid per post. You can look it up on google. So please post and let your views be heard.
posted by metajim at 12:08 PM on December 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm very much inclined to step into conversations on facebook with friends, acquaintances, or friends/acquaintances of friends. I think it's worth having a conversation with people I disagree with. It feels more productive than commenting argumentatively into the anonymous internet ether, and much more productive than just averting my eyes and looking the other way. If we've got the emotional wherewithal to talk about politics, we should probably do it.
posted by ChuraChura at 2:20 PM on December 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

It took me years to internalize this lesson, but eventually I grokked that idiots on the internet are going to keep being idiots whether I engage or not. I now jokingly say to myself "Someone is WRONG on the internet!", which reminds me that the supply of people being wrong on the internet is infinite, but my supply of time and energy is finite. I need to triage my efforts to make a difference, and playing whack-a-mole with people who are WRONG on the internet is just a lot of effort for very little effect. When they make me mad enough to be tempted, I go and rant to my husband or a friend about how these people are idiots; they agree and sympathize and I feel validated, which is what I really wanted. Sometimes I then go do something real, like donating money or calling my congressperson.

I have also completely walked away from a few forums/platforms/blogs where the comments were so often infuriating that I realized I was just making myself miserable hanging out there at all. That can be very hard, but it turns out nothing bad happens if I'm not there to witness and argue with every piece of stupidity, and I'm a whole lot better off.
posted by snowmentality at 2:56 PM on December 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

eventually I grokked that idiots on the internet are going to keep being idiots whether I engage or not.

Bots and some people who post are immovable, but young people who are reading and _not_ commenting are rational beings who are actively searching for what's "normal". You won't hear them say "information absorbed, I guess those other guys are pretty crazy", but you will probably have that effect a few times. On top of that, affecting one or two people is actually a lot. Those individual people will be kept sane, kept from bitter pessimism, kept from hopelessness, and kept from hate, and could have a positive effect on others, too.
posted by amtho at 3:55 PM on December 16, 2016 [2 favorites]