My mother just died. Bank Account Concerns

December 1, 2016 2:33 PM

My mother died this morning. I am a co-signatory on her bank account. I live in California. I need answers ASAP because I don't want her funds frozen once we file the death certificate. I have a few questions.

1: When we file the death certificate is the bank notified automatically or do I notify the bank myself?

2: I am allowed to write and sign checks and am listed as a co-signatory, does that mean it's a joint account?

3: Will her account be frozen and even if I'm a co-signatory, will I be unable to access her funds?

4: I also have complete access to her online banking account. Can I transfer half her money ($10,000) to my account and will the transfer take place before we file her death certificate around 2pm tomorrow?

5: I need these funds to cover immediate expenses. I have money myself, and I could cover this with SOME STRAIN until her funds are released. Do I have to do it through the court and how long does it take?

Thanks. My mom was a blazing comet of fun, joy and ass-kickery she was 83 and fearless. I will miss her, but we left NOTHING undone for her in her life.

posted by generic230 to Law & Government (21 answers total)

I'm so sorry for your loss. I don't know the exact answer as I imagine it varies by locale and maybe even by bank, but I can tell you that when my stepdad passed away last year, my mom basically sent me to the bank and asked me to see if I could get them to...I think put their joint account funds into her own account? Move his funds to the joint account? Anyway, this was several days after he passed away, and they did not let me (random person off the street with no account and a different last name so no useful ID) do this for her, but they did allow her to do it quite easily, IIRC maybe even over the phone and/or helped her set up online banking and do it from there. This was a small local bank, and they were so lovely and kind and helpful about it all.
posted by instamatic at 2:42 PM on December 1, 2016

My understanding is that if one holder of a joint bank account dies, the other holder still has full ownership of everything in the account. This is easier and faster than having to go through probate, and these funds are not part of the estate (they are yours).
This money became your money when you were added as a joint account holder.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:45 PM on December 1, 2016 [9 favorites]

Not an attorney, but I had to deal with this stuff, so the below is my experience and the advice my attorney gave me. If there's $20K in the bank, get an attorney to set the estate up correctly.

My experience in NY was that no one is automatically notified of anything. I definitely had to drag my ass down to about four different banks with Letters Testamentary (documents indicating I am the executor of the estate; they did not take death certificates as those just indicate she died, not that I have any right to her property) to actually get legal access to the accounts.

I doubt they'd have any idea she died had I not done that. I could have transferred the money, signed checks in her name, etc, but her/my attorney definitely told me not to do that until everything was formally set up to allow me to do that. Again, not an attorney, but a bunch of stuff happens to a person's financial status when they die that in turn means that just because you could cut checks from her account when she was alive does not necessarily mean you can do so now that she is deceased.

Being an authorized signatory does not necessarily mean it's a joint account, and I would really, really advise against taking any money out of her account into yours before you actually formally set up the estate (assuming it turns out you're just an authorized signer, not a joint owner.)

The most important thing is don't assume anything. Don't assume that as a co-signatory it is a joint account and you can legally access it without going through the correct process. Don't assume anyone who owes you anything will be notified of her death without you going there and notifying them.

All the banks I dealt with for this were super helpful. Also, when you do get the death certificates, get at least 5 copies. Same with the letters testamentary when the estate is set up (or whatever the equivalent is.)
posted by griphus at 2:45 PM on December 1, 2016 [8 favorites]

Did your mother leave a will or set up a trust to establish how she wanted the inheritance to be treated?
posted by path at 2:47 PM on December 1, 2016

2: I am allowed to write and sign checks and am listed as a co-signatory, does that mean it's a joint account?

My understanding: If you can write and sign checks alone with one signature, you have legal access to the funds. If it took signature from both of you, this account will be frozen.

Call the bank. I think you should be able to keep accessing funds in this account.

Your mom sounds grand.

.
posted by Michele in California at 2:47 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Path, My mother did leave a will and I know for certain that either I or my older brother have power of attorney. Her assets were to be divided equally between me and my 2 brothers. My brothers are with me and we are all on board with getting access to some funds before we file the death certificate.
posted by generic230 at 2:51 PM on December 1, 2016

Power of attorney ceases when the person dies. You cannot have power of attorney over a deceased person; at that point the executor takes over.
posted by griphus at 2:53 PM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Griphus, that's also me and my older brother. We are co-executors
posted by generic230 at 2:54 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I sort of dealt with this with my dad's death. Bank of America (in MA) did not know he had died even a week later. So my guess is that it's not automatic. And if you're also on the account as someone who can write your own checks (i.e. not with two signatures) you should be fine. Are you the executor of her estate? Is there one?

Power of Attorney ends at death so what matters is who is the executor.

If everyone is ON BOARD (and congrats, and good momming mom!) then you are probably ok to just move that money over and probably don't even have to scoot to do it. I paid my father's bills out of his account for several months as the executor of his estate with no issues whatsoever.

Sorry about your mom, best of luck moving forward. I am not a lawyer, but this is what I would do.
posted by jessamyn at 2:54 PM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Best answer: You'll need the will. You'll have to show the bank the death certificate and proof that you are executor to access deposit boxes, close accounts and such but you can write checks and transfer money from the account you are co-signatory of.

Get several copies of the death certificate. Everybody will want a copy. Insurance, cable company, everybody. I think I needed about 10.

Sorry for your loss.
posted by irisclara at 2:55 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

The only situation where this would be an issue (to my non-lawyer read) is if the estate has some level of debts and you used up the money that you weren't entitled to get before the debts were paid.

And yeah get a zillion copies of death certificate and executorship stuff.
posted by jessamyn at 2:56 PM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

If you don't get a lawyer: don't go taking money out of the account until you've confirmed it's a joint account (if you can sign checks on your own authority, it almost certainly is, but you should be able to confirm that easily with your bank; the status should also be indicated on the account opening papers). If it is a joint account with right of survivorship, that money won't need to go through probate. But you need to be sure.

Remember that you are not personally liable for any debts incurred by your mother before her death unless you've formally assumed them. So if her creditors are already pestering you, tell them to leave you alone; they'll get what they can from the estate through probate.
posted by praemunire at 2:59 PM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

If you had power of attorney it is unlikely it is a joint account. In my state I had to file the will with the probate office of the county in which my father died and sign a bunch of stuff. I then received notarized letters from the probate office indicating that I was the executor of the estate which was used to move the funds from my father's accounts into a new estate account (along with a new estate tax ID). My father's estate may have been more complex than your mother's so I have no idea if the new account/tax id is absolutely necessary for smaller estates.
posted by noloveforned at 3:23 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

Some information above is inaccurate, at least in many jurisdictions. An example:
> If you had power of attorney it is unlikely it is a joint account.

Many people have joint accounts and also have a POA.

Consultation with a lawyer is highly advisable.

Above all, continue with your practice of advising your siblings about anything you do, so that everyone is aware and on board.
posted by megatherium at 3:49 PM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]

Sorry for your loss. My MIL died in May. We live in PA. She and my wife had a joint account where both names were on the account, either party can sign. It's your money and your account now. You can notify the bank at your leisure and have the other name removed.
posted by fixedgear at 4:17 PM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]

I know it's a stretch, but if you have the paperwork from account opening you could check to see if it outlines this situation. Here's a Wells Fargo account disclosure, which states on page 26 that they *may* freeze an account when an account owner or authorized signer dies, but it's pretty unspecific as to when they might do that and there's nothing to indicate that this might be that type of situation.

I think above commenters are correct that you'll probably continue to have access to the account. To really be sure where you stand, you'll have to contact the bank.

I'm sorry for your loss, OP.
posted by bunderful at 4:44 PM on December 1, 2016

You are now the owner of that bank account. No need to do a thing except get the funds you and your brothers need at the moment.
The Bank will not know of your mother's death until you provide them with a death certificate. And that takes a while to get from the documents filed by the Mortuary.
Relax. I have been through this and it really is not an issue.

Very sorry for your loss. I am dealing with that as well.
posted by JayRwv at 6:26 PM on December 1, 2016

I can add one piece of potentially useful information. As part of the estate filings you will need to request from the bank an official balance on the date your mother passed. So even if you remove the funds now, they will be counted as part of the estate (unless it's a joint account as described above), so make sure you also keep track of anything you pay for with those funds.
posted by NoDef at 6:36 PM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]

Is the checking account a true joint account or a convenience account? If it's the latter, then the money reverts to the estate on the owner's death, and it goes through probate. If you don't have the original paperwork and/or can't figure out if the account is joint or convenience, you need to call in a lawyer.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:24 AM on December 2, 2016

From what I've learned that there are joint accounts, and a joint account that is called joint tenancy with right of survivorship. Joint tenancy with right of survivorship means that you can do anything with it you want. If its a regular joint account, I don't believe you have access and it may be frozen. It might be a good idea to check with the bank to see what kind it is. My Mom's and mine were joint tenancy and I used the account to pay for her funeral expenses with no problem. Then after I got death certificates I went to the bank to put my name on single.
Make sure you get several copies of the death certificate because you will need to give one to every bank and to even credit card companies and possibly some utilities.
posted by PJMoore at 7:25 AM on December 2, 2016

Response by poster: RESOLVED. I don't know how to tag this as resolved but it has been. The checking account was joint. The savings account was not. My brother has power of attorney so we went to the bank with the paper work and put him in charge of her savings account. He was able to transfer money from savings to checking and I will be able to pay any and all bills/expenses by writing checks direct from her account.

Everyone who said WE notify the bank of my mother's death was correct.

I called the bank anonymously as one person suggested and found out that yes, no matter whether my mother is alive or dead, as joint owner, the funds would always be available to me.

I appreciate all the help I got here, it helped me solve my problem before 6pm yesterday. And I am so relieved today to have gotten these answers and gotten it done. Once again, in a crisis, askmetafilter really comes through.
posted by generic230 at 10:11 AM on December 2, 2016 [9 favorites]