Why don't children's tricyles have chain drives in North America?
October 21, 2016 8:50 AM Subscribe
We recently moved from the US to Europe with our 2-year-old son. We immediately set about finding him a tricycle, and very quickly noticed that a lot of the tricycles here have chain drives. Watching him speed around I've been wondering: why don't we have tricycles with chain drives in North America?
I did some Googling, and it seems like companies like Murray used to make them, but they don't seem to be made anymore. (Of course, I could just be bad at Googling and someone out there is still producing them. In any case they're either nonexistent or rare.)
It looks to me, with my lack of education in the matter, that the advantage of the chain driven tricycle is that the pedals are more directly beneath the seat, as they are on a bike. It seems like an easier position to be in when pedaling; maybe it's also easier to move the skill to a bike later? Are there disadvantages I'm not seeing? I get the impression he can go faster on this thing than he would on a Radio Flyer, but he can also stop on a dime. Were they just more expensive and therefore driven out of the market? These things cost almost twice what a Radio Flyer does new (we, of course, paid 10 Euros for a used one).
Google has no opinion on the merits (or lack thereof) of chain-driven tricycles; does the hive mind have any ideas?
I did some Googling, and it seems like companies like Murray used to make them, but they don't seem to be made anymore. (Of course, I could just be bad at Googling and someone out there is still producing them. In any case they're either nonexistent or rare.)
It looks to me, with my lack of education in the matter, that the advantage of the chain driven tricycle is that the pedals are more directly beneath the seat, as they are on a bike. It seems like an easier position to be in when pedaling; maybe it's also easier to move the skill to a bike later? Are there disadvantages I'm not seeing? I get the impression he can go faster on this thing than he would on a Radio Flyer, but he can also stop on a dime. Were they just more expensive and therefore driven out of the market? These things cost almost twice what a Radio Flyer does new (we, of course, paid 10 Euros for a used one).
Google has no opinion on the merits (or lack thereof) of chain-driven tricycles; does the hive mind have any ideas?
I actually did have a chain-drive trike when I was little but that was…well, a long time ago (and in fact, it was made in England).
The most obvious reason why kid's trikes would have direct drive is cost: it's a lot cheaper that way. Trikes are also just a stepping-stone to bikes for most people. I think I was riding a bike when I was 5. So there's a narrow window in which most kids will use trikes at all, and so there's not much reason to invest in them. Or maybe it's more accurate to think of them as bike-like toys: a 4-yo kid just isn't going to get very much mileage (literally) out of a bike or trike of any variety, so there's not as much need to cater to more demanding uses. And I'd be surprised if there's much skill transfer from trike to bike, with either kind of trike. Balancing is the main skill kids need to learn on the bike.
Tricycles have less of a place in American cycling culture in general: to the extent that we have them here at all, they're mostly for people with handicaps. Whereas people in the UK race them. So there may be more of an assumption in Europe that if you're going to make a trike, even for kids, you should make it a proper vehicle, not a toy.
posted by adamrice at 9:13 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
The most obvious reason why kid's trikes would have direct drive is cost: it's a lot cheaper that way. Trikes are also just a stepping-stone to bikes for most people. I think I was riding a bike when I was 5. So there's a narrow window in which most kids will use trikes at all, and so there's not much reason to invest in them. Or maybe it's more accurate to think of them as bike-like toys: a 4-yo kid just isn't going to get very much mileage (literally) out of a bike or trike of any variety, so there's not as much need to cater to more demanding uses. And I'd be surprised if there's much skill transfer from trike to bike, with either kind of trike. Balancing is the main skill kids need to learn on the bike.
I get the impression he can go faster on this thing than he would on a Radio Flyer, but he can also stop on a dimeI don't doubt that's true, but it's not necessarily a good thing: turning on trikes is tricky, and it is easy to flip one.
Tricycles have less of a place in American cycling culture in general: to the extent that we have them here at all, they're mostly for people with handicaps. Whereas people in the UK race them. So there may be more of an assumption in Europe that if you're going to make a trike, even for kids, you should make it a proper vehicle, not a toy.
posted by adamrice at 9:13 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
In addition to it being cheaper, I will speculate that a tricycle with fewer parts is less prone to breaking down and more durable.
posted by ejs at 9:18 AM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ejs at 9:18 AM on October 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm gonna go with America's love of tort claims.
posted by humboldt32 at 9:40 AM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by humboldt32 at 9:40 AM on October 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
I'm not sure the exact reasons or logic for this, but I think in the United States the market niche that could potentially be occupied by chain-driven trikes elsewhere is occupied here by the 12" bicycle with training wheels. I would say that at this size of bike and the age of kids who typically ride them (2-4 years old) the training wheels never come off so it's essentially a tricycle anyhow. I suspect most kids don't make the transition off training wheels until they're on at least a 16" bike at 4-7 years old.
posted by drlith at 9:43 AM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by drlith at 9:43 AM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
In addition to it being cheaper, I will speculate that a tricycle with fewer parts is less prone to breaking down and more durable.
Word. My inlaws got my son a toy John Deer tractor* that has a drive chain this past summer. Guess what is now an immobile hunk of metal sitting underneath my deck? I'd say total hours of play accumulated prior to chain slippage: 4.
*protip: this is a terrible toy that is far, far too heavy for your average 2-4 year old to move via pedaling on anything but the smoothest of concrete on a downward slope. It looks very cool. Just sit your kid on it at the store, take a picture, and move on.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Word. My inlaws got my son a toy John Deer tractor* that has a drive chain this past summer. Guess what is now an immobile hunk of metal sitting underneath my deck? I'd say total hours of play accumulated prior to chain slippage: 4.
*protip: this is a terrible toy that is far, far too heavy for your average 2-4 year old to move via pedaling on anything but the smoothest of concrete on a downward slope. It looks very cool. Just sit your kid on it at the store, take a picture, and move on.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on October 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Hmmm, a chain drive seems like a good way to catch little fingers when they flip the trike over and pedal with their hands to "make ice cream". (I hope I'm not the only one who did that!)
posted by cecic at 9:51 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cecic at 9:51 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
curiously the regulations at https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title16-vol2/pdf/CFR-2012-title16-vol2-part1512.pdf explicitly exclude tricycles unless they have electric power (see 1512.2).
posted by andrewcooke at 9:54 AM on October 21, 2016
posted by andrewcooke at 9:54 AM on October 21, 2016
ah it seems ANSI Z315.1 is the relevant document, but it's not freely available.
posted by andrewcooke at 9:58 AM on October 21, 2016
posted by andrewcooke at 9:58 AM on October 21, 2016
these meeting minutes suggest it was being considered in 2002 (see comment 61).
i guess that implies they are otherwise banned.
posted by andrewcooke at 10:01 AM on October 21, 2016
i guess that implies they are otherwise banned.
posted by andrewcooke at 10:01 AM on October 21, 2016
The development of the safety bike was the beginning of chain drive. It could have gone either way at the time. In the US we stuck with direct drive, the pedals and crank arms are attched to the driving wheel. There were highwheelers, and there where what we'd now call adult trikes. A kid's trike was just a scaled down adult trike and kept the direct drive. In the UK and Europe when they switched to the safety bike - two wheels same size and chain drive - kids trikes got chain drive, they might have thought it was better/more reliable. Stuff was built to last and get handed down. Looking at it through 21st century lens is maybe not so helpful It wasn't lawsuits, regulations and manufacturing costs, at least not at the genesis. It's more like why do they have that huge carzy plug in the UK, why'd they go with 220V, etc.
posted by fixedgear at 10:44 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by fixedgear at 10:44 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't even recall seeing a childrens' chain tricycle in here, new, used or refurbished in a vintage store as a fancy vase, so it might be even more localized than "Europe".
I'm almost 100% sure in here it was due to costs - when up until the late 70s most of the country was dirt-poor, adding a chain would make it far more expensive than it needed to be, while a workshop could do a front-wheel direct drive with basic tools and materials.
posted by lmfsilva at 11:01 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm almost 100% sure in here it was due to costs - when up until the late 70s most of the country was dirt-poor, adding a chain would make it far more expensive than it needed to be, while a workshop could do a front-wheel direct drive with basic tools and materials.
posted by lmfsilva at 11:01 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I could have sworn my tricycle had a drive chain. It was a xmas present ~1957, almost certainly US-made. Given the info cited above, is this remotely possible?
Also, it came with a toy rifle. Go figure.
posted by she's not there at 11:45 AM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, it came with a toy rifle. Go figure.
posted by she's not there at 11:45 AM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
UK plugs are awesome. Accept no substitutes.
*ahem*. Anyway, my entirely unscientific approach of searching for "tricycle" on Amazon.co.uk suggests that the overwhelming majority of children's tricycles on offer have pedals attached directly to the front wheel.
A chain drive attached to the back wheel is probably both more efficient & sturdier in the long term. Where are you finding these chain drive tricycles?
posted by pharm at 12:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
*ahem*. Anyway, my entirely unscientific approach of searching for "tricycle" on Amazon.co.uk suggests that the overwhelming majority of children's tricycles on offer have pedals attached directly to the front wheel.
A chain drive attached to the back wheel is probably both more efficient & sturdier in the long term. Where are you finding these chain drive tricycles?
posted by pharm at 12:46 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
There was a type of "rear wheel drive" tricycle which used what was a simple rod to transfer power from the pedals to the rear wheels. That was cheaper to make than using a chain drive. I'm not sure if that technology is still in use. I didn't see any in a one quick search.
posted by SemiSalt at 1:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by SemiSalt at 1:00 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: We're in France, pharm. (Where I need to get a doctor's note to let my kid attend swimming lessons and the people running the lessons need to have a child psychologist present at said lessons lest something go wrong. The French are either over protective in weird ways or very litigious; it's unclear which.) It's true that the chain-driven trikes may not be Europe-wide; I don't see any mention of them at Dutch bike sites, for example.
The risk of getting fingers stuck in the chain seems pretty remote because it's entirely encased in a cover that would take some doing to get off. Like, you'd need tools, and even then it's not easy.
Comment 61 in that linked meeting log is interesting. It seems to imply that free-wheeling trikes are banned. Or that they were in 2002, anyway. The ones I've seen here aren't free wheeling -- you can back pedal to brake but you can't coast (unless you take your feet off the pedals, hah. Ask me how I know a two-year-old can figure out in no time how to shoot downhill like a damn rocket). I'm mildly amused by their concern over back braking. My son clearly understands perfectly the concept of back braking and in fact discovered it all on his own a few weeks ago -- he back pedals and never drags his feet on the ground to stop. It seemed almost instinctive, watching him figure it out. He's 27 months. But to be fair that's anecdote and not data. I haven't seen any tricycles with hand brakes (definitely not instinctive), but my son's balance bike has one, and it's intended for kids 2-4 years old.
I swear the most dangerous part about that trike is the push pole because before he figured out the brakes he was constantly looking back to make sure I wasn't touching it (of course I was, much to his irritation, when he was freewheeling downhill) and subsequently not watching where he was going and/or turning too sharply as a result.
Anyway, thanks for helping to satisfy my idle wondering, y'all. I suspect in the end it's probably a combination of cost (including repairs) + bike culture + chance.
posted by CoureurDubois at 1:25 PM on October 21, 2016
The risk of getting fingers stuck in the chain seems pretty remote because it's entirely encased in a cover that would take some doing to get off. Like, you'd need tools, and even then it's not easy.
Comment 61 in that linked meeting log is interesting. It seems to imply that free-wheeling trikes are banned. Or that they were in 2002, anyway. The ones I've seen here aren't free wheeling -- you can back pedal to brake but you can't coast (unless you take your feet off the pedals, hah. Ask me how I know a two-year-old can figure out in no time how to shoot downhill like a damn rocket). I'm mildly amused by their concern over back braking. My son clearly understands perfectly the concept of back braking and in fact discovered it all on his own a few weeks ago -- he back pedals and never drags his feet on the ground to stop. It seemed almost instinctive, watching him figure it out. He's 27 months. But to be fair that's anecdote and not data. I haven't seen any tricycles with hand brakes (definitely not instinctive), but my son's balance bike has one, and it's intended for kids 2-4 years old.
I swear the most dangerous part about that trike is the push pole because before he figured out the brakes he was constantly looking back to make sure I wasn't touching it (of course I was, much to his irritation, when he was freewheeling downhill) and subsequently not watching where he was going and/or turning too sharply as a result.
Anyway, thanks for helping to satisfy my idle wondering, y'all. I suspect in the end it's probably a combination of cost (including repairs) + bike culture + chance.
posted by CoureurDubois at 1:25 PM on October 21, 2016
ANSI Z315 makes it hard to do trikes with a chain drive due to the clearance requirements. To prevent most pinch hazards, any clearance areas needs to admit both a 3/16" and 1/2" diameter probe. This is similar to the requirements in ASTM F963 for automatically moving pieces in the rest of the children's toys.
posted by Nackt at 5:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Nackt at 5:58 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I don't have a copy of ASTM F963, which is the standard for toy safety, so I can't look up chapter and verse. Bicycles have their own, different regulations, which probably don't apply to tricycles.
Also, it's more expensive. This is probably the main reason.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:13 AM on October 21, 2016 [6 favorites]