What is wrong with my dog?
October 10, 2016 3:03 AM Subscribe
He's been demonstrating bad behavior and regressing in his training in the past month.
I picked a dog from the pound 2 months ago with my husband. We had both agreed we didn't want a young dog. We picked a larger one who immediately caught our eye because he was so sweet and shy and well-behaved. Then we found out he was 4 months old. We talked about it a lot, and in the end we decided to choose him. We knew about puppy energy, but with that kind of energy usually comes an enthusiasm for learning and an increased willingness to change behaviorally, so we thought it was an okay trade-off.
The first month was great. He didn't need crate training at all because being from the pound, he already knew the value of his very own safe space. He's a big 50 lb baby, so straight from the start he could hold his bladder for the 8 hours a night in his crate. He rarely had accidents in the house and was very attentive and happy to learn new things. We regularly take him on walks, give him treats, do behavior and obedience training with him, etc. He's learned a lot!
The problem is that he isn't picking up on house training at all and is regressing in his other training. We know he is physically able to hold his urine/feces, but he will randomly pee and poop in the middle of our carpeted floor when we let him out to relax with us. Every time it happens we say "NO, OUTSIDE!" and we are consistent with giving him treats and reinforcing "outside" with him when he does go outside, but he still pees inside at random, sometimes not an hour after we've taken him out! We've controlled his water, we've taken him to the vet to check for health issues, but nothing comes of it.
He's also becoming more belligerent. We make him sit before clipping the leash to him to take him outside to potty. He's always happily done it, even in the pound, and we eventually weaned him off of treats for it. But now he just won't. He walks to the door and just stands there. We'll call his name, and sometimes he looks at us and sometimes he doesn't but either way he won't sit on command. But if I have a treat or a toy in my hand, he immediately does it. He knows the command. He just doesn't seem to care any more unless there's some immediate physical reward.
Because he's so big, we train him on a lot of commands like "gentle", "leave it", "let it go", etc. He's started to become a lot more rambunctious with playtime, to the point where he's hurting me every time I try to spend time with him. He scratches me up with his nails (and we do trim them to the quick regularly) and has accidentally bitten me several times, either while I'm playing fetch with him (he's trying to get his toy) or while we lay on the couch (he's chewing his toy and nips me). Every single time I immediately stop what we're doing and make him go into his gated area by himself. He seems remorseful for a little bit, but it changes nothing. We regularly exercise him but it doesn't seem to sate this frantic enthusiasm. It could be the first play session of the day or right after I've run him around the back yard for 30 minutes with toys and he's still going to chomp my hand trying to get a toy from me.
There has to be room for improvement. I know dogs aren't inherently bad, and I'm sure there's something I could be doing better to teach him. I don't want to be the bad owner of a misbehaving mutt, especially not one who's going to be so big! Any tips, tricks, or just comments on what I could do differently to help him understand what I want would be much appreciated! He's a bulldog breed if that helps (not sure exactly what -- too broad/bulky to be a pit, might be a mix of American/English).
I picked a dog from the pound 2 months ago with my husband. We had both agreed we didn't want a young dog. We picked a larger one who immediately caught our eye because he was so sweet and shy and well-behaved. Then we found out he was 4 months old. We talked about it a lot, and in the end we decided to choose him. We knew about puppy energy, but with that kind of energy usually comes an enthusiasm for learning and an increased willingness to change behaviorally, so we thought it was an okay trade-off.
The first month was great. He didn't need crate training at all because being from the pound, he already knew the value of his very own safe space. He's a big 50 lb baby, so straight from the start he could hold his bladder for the 8 hours a night in his crate. He rarely had accidents in the house and was very attentive and happy to learn new things. We regularly take him on walks, give him treats, do behavior and obedience training with him, etc. He's learned a lot!
The problem is that he isn't picking up on house training at all and is regressing in his other training. We know he is physically able to hold his urine/feces, but he will randomly pee and poop in the middle of our carpeted floor when we let him out to relax with us. Every time it happens we say "NO, OUTSIDE!" and we are consistent with giving him treats and reinforcing "outside" with him when he does go outside, but he still pees inside at random, sometimes not an hour after we've taken him out! We've controlled his water, we've taken him to the vet to check for health issues, but nothing comes of it.
He's also becoming more belligerent. We make him sit before clipping the leash to him to take him outside to potty. He's always happily done it, even in the pound, and we eventually weaned him off of treats for it. But now he just won't. He walks to the door and just stands there. We'll call his name, and sometimes he looks at us and sometimes he doesn't but either way he won't sit on command. But if I have a treat or a toy in my hand, he immediately does it. He knows the command. He just doesn't seem to care any more unless there's some immediate physical reward.
Because he's so big, we train him on a lot of commands like "gentle", "leave it", "let it go", etc. He's started to become a lot more rambunctious with playtime, to the point where he's hurting me every time I try to spend time with him. He scratches me up with his nails (and we do trim them to the quick regularly) and has accidentally bitten me several times, either while I'm playing fetch with him (he's trying to get his toy) or while we lay on the couch (he's chewing his toy and nips me). Every single time I immediately stop what we're doing and make him go into his gated area by himself. He seems remorseful for a little bit, but it changes nothing. We regularly exercise him but it doesn't seem to sate this frantic enthusiasm. It could be the first play session of the day or right after I've run him around the back yard for 30 minutes with toys and he's still going to chomp my hand trying to get a toy from me.
There has to be room for improvement. I know dogs aren't inherently bad, and I'm sure there's something I could be doing better to teach him. I don't want to be the bad owner of a misbehaving mutt, especially not one who's going to be so big! Any tips, tricks, or just comments on what I could do differently to help him understand what I want would be much appreciated! He's a bulldog breed if that helps (not sure exactly what -- too broad/bulky to be a pit, might be a mix of American/English).
Also:
We knew about puppy energy, but with that kind of energy usually comes an enthusiasm for learning and an increased willingness to change behaviorally, so we thought it was an okay trade-off.
Yeah... about this. There is a LOT of variation in dogs' biddability. Some are indeed eager to please and excited to learn (think labs). Others are more stubborn (think huskies).
posted by schroedingersgirl at 3:54 AM on October 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
We knew about puppy energy, but with that kind of energy usually comes an enthusiasm for learning and an increased willingness to change behaviorally, so we thought it was an okay trade-off.
Yeah... about this. There is a LOT of variation in dogs' biddability. Some are indeed eager to please and excited to learn (think labs). Others are more stubborn (think huskies).
posted by schroedingersgirl at 3:54 AM on October 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
Is one of you doing more training than the other? Does he still listen to that person?
posted by corb at 5:17 AM on October 10, 2016
posted by corb at 5:17 AM on October 10, 2016
Best answer: Congratulations your dog trusts you and feels settled enough to be off his best behaviour.
Don't scold for peeing in the house, just quickly and firmly take the dog outside and reward the dog for finishing outside, for the reasons stated above. Also don't use the same words when telling off and for a good thing like outside you'll confuse the issue.
With the nipping simply yelp loudly and immediately stop playplay, by the time you've hustled the dog to the time out he has no idea why it's there.
Go do some training classes together, even some simple Petsmart ones. I'd also suggest some agility classes, what you are doing. Not so much to learn the commands as to bond together and help your dog realise doing stuff you say can be fun. Also having to think and the social interactions will tire him out.
As you've heard not ask dogs are people pleasers by nature, as the owner of two very stubborn terriers a continual pocket of treats and constant reinforcement of what they do right with lots of good boys and treats goes a long way. Saying good boy/girl/dog to your dog had been shown to actually light up the pleasure centres of a dogs brain and is a super effective training tool. So praise praise praise them when they do good and a tasty treat will get then wanting to try to please you.. Look for ways to praise not scold.
Look into clicker training.
posted by wwax at 5:20 AM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't scold for peeing in the house, just quickly and firmly take the dog outside and reward the dog for finishing outside, for the reasons stated above. Also don't use the same words when telling off and for a good thing like outside you'll confuse the issue.
With the nipping simply yelp loudly and immediately stop playplay, by the time you've hustled the dog to the time out he has no idea why it's there.
Go do some training classes together, even some simple Petsmart ones. I'd also suggest some agility classes, what you are doing. Not so much to learn the commands as to bond together and help your dog realise doing stuff you say can be fun. Also having to think and the social interactions will tire him out.
As you've heard not ask dogs are people pleasers by nature, as the owner of two very stubborn terriers a continual pocket of treats and constant reinforcement of what they do right with lots of good boys and treats goes a long way. Saying good boy/girl/dog to your dog had been shown to actually light up the pleasure centres of a dogs brain and is a super effective training tool. So praise praise praise them when they do good and a tasty treat will get then wanting to try to please you.. Look for ways to praise not scold.
Look into clicker training.
posted by wwax at 5:20 AM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I knew as soon as I read the above the fold text what the issue would be.
As several others have said: the honeymoon's over. This is a good thing, since it means the dog is settling in, but it's frustrating, because it usually shows first as regressing. Like wwax said, it means he trusts you enough to ease up a little. Think of it as like when you're a guest in someone's house: at first you are super careful and tiptoeing around; if you stay for a week you'll probably get your own water glass out of the cabinet.
Stay positive and consistent with the training. Everything you did before isn't lost, y'all are just adapting to each other.
posted by fiercecupcake at 6:37 AM on October 10, 2016
As several others have said: the honeymoon's over. This is a good thing, since it means the dog is settling in, but it's frustrating, because it usually shows first as regressing. Like wwax said, it means he trusts you enough to ease up a little. Think of it as like when you're a guest in someone's house: at first you are super careful and tiptoeing around; if you stay for a week you'll probably get your own water glass out of the cabinet.
Stay positive and consistent with the training. Everything you did before isn't lost, y'all are just adapting to each other.
posted by fiercecupcake at 6:37 AM on October 10, 2016
A dog trainer I hired because I couldn't train my own rambunctious dog when he was young, told me that the main barrier to 'good' behaviour for dogs was too much energy. Ie not enough walks/exercise. I resisted the idea as I was already taking him out for pretty long walks I felt, but turns out she was completely right. I vote that before anything else you double his exercise time. It's amazing how exactly my dogs good and bad behaviour is predicated on how well I've excercised him that day.
If you are considering (not sure if you are, just saying) that a 30 min stint in the garden with toys is a reasonable amount of exercise time for a 4 month old big dog for an afternoon this might be the root of your problem.
I was annoyed when it was first suggested to me that I wasn't taking the dog out enough - but it was completely right. The dog was bored and restless with a lot of pent up energy. As soon as that was tackled the rest fell into place. Not exactly what I had signed up for as I wasn't expecting to have to take the dog out for 2 to 3 hours off leash every day (and my previous dog hadn't needed that) but it made a world of difference. Plus I got really fit.
Good luck!
posted by stevedawg at 7:12 AM on October 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
If you are considering (not sure if you are, just saying) that a 30 min stint in the garden with toys is a reasonable amount of exercise time for a 4 month old big dog for an afternoon this might be the root of your problem.
I was annoyed when it was first suggested to me that I wasn't taking the dog out enough - but it was completely right. The dog was bored and restless with a lot of pent up energy. As soon as that was tackled the rest fell into place. Not exactly what I had signed up for as I wasn't expecting to have to take the dog out for 2 to 3 hours off leash every day (and my previous dog hadn't needed that) but it made a world of difference. Plus I got really fit.
Good luck!
posted by stevedawg at 7:12 AM on October 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
We know he is physically able to hold his urine/feces, but he will randomly pee and poop in the middle of our carpeted floor when we let him out to relax with us.
This sounds like you keep him crated a lot, even when you're home, which to my mind is not great. Please consider that keeping him locked in a crate much of the time is not letting him learn house boundaries in any real sense.
Do not yell at your dog for eliminating in the house. Say or do nothing when he eliminates in the house - just take him outside and throw a giant treat and praise party when he does potty outside.
Your dog is still really young. I'm not sure you understand how very young he is - he won't be a mature grown-up dog until about two or so, and our female we adopted at two has only started to slow down a little now that she's seven.
You seem to be expecting perfect obedience and smoothing sailing from a dog who is just moving from babyhood to adolescence. You seem to have a lot of ego wrapped up in having a "good dog" and I think that's clouding your judgement here. You did not adopt an older dog - you chose a 4 month old baby. Please recalibrate your expectations and continue to be patient, loving and adaptable as your dog grows up.
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:53 AM on October 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
This sounds like you keep him crated a lot, even when you're home, which to my mind is not great. Please consider that keeping him locked in a crate much of the time is not letting him learn house boundaries in any real sense.
Do not yell at your dog for eliminating in the house. Say or do nothing when he eliminates in the house - just take him outside and throw a giant treat and praise party when he does potty outside.
Your dog is still really young. I'm not sure you understand how very young he is - he won't be a mature grown-up dog until about two or so, and our female we adopted at two has only started to slow down a little now that she's seven.
You seem to be expecting perfect obedience and smoothing sailing from a dog who is just moving from babyhood to adolescence. You seem to have a lot of ego wrapped up in having a "good dog" and I think that's clouding your judgement here. You did not adopt an older dog - you chose a 4 month old baby. Please recalibrate your expectations and continue to be patient, loving and adaptable as your dog grows up.
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:53 AM on October 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
I agree with the possibility that your pup may not be getting enough exercise. Depending on the breed, he may need a lot more exercise than you realize. If possible, take him for longer walks and possibly to dog daycare once or twice a week to help him release some of that energy.
posted by smich at 8:09 AM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by smich at 8:09 AM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
This sounds really typical for a shelter dog and for a 4 month old pup, you're dealing with both of those at the same time so you'll have to be REALLY patient. He's just a baby, he's never lived in a home before, and I think you may have stopped rewarding his behaviour too soon. He doesn't care about praise, he cares about his treats/toys, so reward him with something that is meaningful to him.
It goes like this: shape behaviour -> consistently reward behaviour in low distraction -> slowly increase level of distraction while consistently rewarding behaviour -> start to vary reward (either by making him wait between your marker - "good" or "yes" - and the actual treat/toy, or by only giving him the treat/toy every 1-2 then 2-3 etc repetitions). If he gets it right 90% of the time, you can move up a step. I wouldn't even begin to vary rewards until he's 8-10 months old and that's if he's doing really well. (The main difference between experienced dog trainers and unexperienced dog trainers is the rate of reinforcement - experienced dog trainers reinforce MORE and often get better results for it.)
At 4 months old, I was spending 1-2 hours at the park with my dog 2-3x a day (minimum 4 hours). If she got mouthy, we went outside to play it off with a tug toy. At 2 years old, she now associates inside/home = relax, outside/park = fun. It makes life a lot easier. You might find that taking him for a walk after playing in the yard might tire him out more than just playing in the yard, especially if you practice on leash obedience while you do it.
Also it is completely expected for him to have a hard time with house training. He has never lived in a house and many dogs take at least 6 months to be house trained even with consistent training from 8 weeks on. Do not use your command for eliminating when he is doing it in the house - you are confusing him by telling him "outside" in both cases. You might need to go back to basics: take him outside after he wakes up from a nap, after he eats, after he plays, immediately on exit from his crate, plus every 3-4 hours. Treat/toy for doing it outside, not just verbal praise.
There is no such thing as a perfectly behaved dog. He is a living being, he will make mistakes, you will make mistakes, and there will be times when you're just out of sync. It's a humbling experience for a first time dog owner. Try not to let your embarrassment and frustration get the better of you. Aim for progress, consistency, that 90% completion, and let go of perfection. Go with what works for the dog not just what you wish would work for the dog.
Anecdote: I never thought I was a perfectionist until I got my first dog and wow did it bring out a weird side of me. At almost 2 years, we are doing great, but we do best when I have a bag of kibble ready to reward her for doing what I want and worst when I just expect her to do the thing/get mad when she doesn't do the thing.
posted by buteo at 8:13 AM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
It goes like this: shape behaviour -> consistently reward behaviour in low distraction -> slowly increase level of distraction while consistently rewarding behaviour -> start to vary reward (either by making him wait between your marker - "good" or "yes" - and the actual treat/toy, or by only giving him the treat/toy every 1-2 then 2-3 etc repetitions). If he gets it right 90% of the time, you can move up a step. I wouldn't even begin to vary rewards until he's 8-10 months old and that's if he's doing really well. (The main difference between experienced dog trainers and unexperienced dog trainers is the rate of reinforcement - experienced dog trainers reinforce MORE and often get better results for it.)
At 4 months old, I was spending 1-2 hours at the park with my dog 2-3x a day (minimum 4 hours). If she got mouthy, we went outside to play it off with a tug toy. At 2 years old, she now associates inside/home = relax, outside/park = fun. It makes life a lot easier. You might find that taking him for a walk after playing in the yard might tire him out more than just playing in the yard, especially if you practice on leash obedience while you do it.
Also it is completely expected for him to have a hard time with house training. He has never lived in a house and many dogs take at least 6 months to be house trained even with consistent training from 8 weeks on. Do not use your command for eliminating when he is doing it in the house - you are confusing him by telling him "outside" in both cases. You might need to go back to basics: take him outside after he wakes up from a nap, after he eats, after he plays, immediately on exit from his crate, plus every 3-4 hours. Treat/toy for doing it outside, not just verbal praise.
There is no such thing as a perfectly behaved dog. He is a living being, he will make mistakes, you will make mistakes, and there will be times when you're just out of sync. It's a humbling experience for a first time dog owner. Try not to let your embarrassment and frustration get the better of you. Aim for progress, consistency, that 90% completion, and let go of perfection. Go with what works for the dog not just what you wish would work for the dog.
Anecdote: I never thought I was a perfectionist until I got my first dog and wow did it bring out a weird side of me. At almost 2 years, we are doing great, but we do best when I have a bag of kibble ready to reward her for doing what I want and worst when I just expect her to do the thing/get mad when she doesn't do the thing.
posted by buteo at 8:13 AM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Second the suggestion to take him to actual training classes. When I got my rescue pup, I was way over-confident in my ability to train a puppy (I had gotten very comfortable with my older, obedient dog). I waited almost a year to go to classes. We just went to Petco, it was like $100 for 6 classes. The difference in my dog was night and day! It was great to have the structure of the class and also the advice of an expert.
posted by radioamy at 9:09 AM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by radioamy at 9:09 AM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, by using words like belligerent and remorseful, you're anthropomorphising your dog. It will hamper your training and your life with him if you continue to project human emotions and motivations onto him.
I think you also misunderstand the way dogs use their mouths. They don't have hands or speech, and their mouths, and using their teeth during play are vital parts of their communication. If there's a problem with him chewing toys and nipping you, train him to chew his toys while lying on his own mat or bed?
The Other End of the Leash is a great book about dog and human behavior.
posted by Squeak Attack at 9:55 AM on October 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think you also misunderstand the way dogs use their mouths. They don't have hands or speech, and their mouths, and using their teeth during play are vital parts of their communication. If there's a problem with him chewing toys and nipping you, train him to chew his toys while lying on his own mat or bed?
The Other End of the Leash is a great book about dog and human behavior.
posted by Squeak Attack at 9:55 AM on October 10, 2016 [7 favorites]
This is the fall, if you have had him out in the weeds in the summer, then get him to a vet and have him checked for foxtails that have burrowed into his inner ear. This makes them confused, incontinent, variable in behavior. You wouldn't believe what kind of changes this one thing does. It is a nightmare. I had a couple of experiences with different dogs, and it took a while to even figure out what was up. The first dog, just ducked out and ran into the basement, and wanted to stay in a wallow deep back in the dirt shelf area. He didn't even want to come out. Be sure to get him checked.
posted by Oyéah at 9:56 AM on October 10, 2016
posted by Oyéah at 9:56 AM on October 10, 2016
Response by poster: Thank you all for all the awesome advice! We got the tip for saying "No, outside!" from a doggy training book, and we'll stop doing that and just pick him up and put him outside without saying anything.
RE: the "letting him out" comment, we have the house baby-gated off with 3 gates to keep him from being on carpet when we are not there during the day. As he proves he's able to handle it, he gets to spend more and more time on the carpet. Our home office is where we spend 90% of our time at home and it's in the gated area, so he's usually with us.
RE: Foxtails, He goes to the vet every few weeks for boosters (though we may finally be done with that) and I haven't ever had him out in weeds. Both my back yard and my neighbors'/friends' yards are well mowed and taken care of.
I'm very glad to hear the general consensus this is happening because he's feeling more comfortable and getting settled in. As for the exercise, I really don't think that's it. We take him on at least a few walks a day, he has dog buddies next door, and he regularly goes on little play dates with them. One is about his size and she's a pit, and the other is a massive 130+ lb boxer whom he loves. He tires out before either one of them do.
One thing I didn't see a lot of people address, and one that I really want a good answer to, is the biting/nipping. I've tried the yelping (which is my natural response) but it seems to actually excite him even more and he thinks I'm playing. My partner growls at him (his natural response) when he does it. Still does nothing He once bit my foot pretty good through a blanket while trying to get at his toy and I full out screamed a few times and he only got more excited by that. I have no idea what to do to communicate to him that it's unacceptable behavior other than immediately stopping the playing, which we already do. I'm a little perturbed that he thinks me yelping or screaming in pain means I want to play harder :/.
posted by Sherbil at 11:52 AM on October 10, 2016
RE: the "letting him out" comment, we have the house baby-gated off with 3 gates to keep him from being on carpet when we are not there during the day. As he proves he's able to handle it, he gets to spend more and more time on the carpet. Our home office is where we spend 90% of our time at home and it's in the gated area, so he's usually with us.
RE: Foxtails, He goes to the vet every few weeks for boosters (though we may finally be done with that) and I haven't ever had him out in weeds. Both my back yard and my neighbors'/friends' yards are well mowed and taken care of.
I'm very glad to hear the general consensus this is happening because he's feeling more comfortable and getting settled in. As for the exercise, I really don't think that's it. We take him on at least a few walks a day, he has dog buddies next door, and he regularly goes on little play dates with them. One is about his size and she's a pit, and the other is a massive 130+ lb boxer whom he loves. He tires out before either one of them do.
One thing I didn't see a lot of people address, and one that I really want a good answer to, is the biting/nipping. I've tried the yelping (which is my natural response) but it seems to actually excite him even more and he thinks I'm playing. My partner growls at him (his natural response) when he does it. Still does nothing He once bit my foot pretty good through a blanket while trying to get at his toy and I full out screamed a few times and he only got more excited by that. I have no idea what to do to communicate to him that it's unacceptable behavior other than immediately stopping the playing, which we already do. I'm a little perturbed that he thinks me yelping or screaming in pain means I want to play harder :/.
posted by Sherbil at 11:52 AM on October 10, 2016
Is it yelping + something? I mean, do you yelp and then pin him down and say NO BITING? Think about what a parent dog would do -- not stay mad, but definitely get their lack of approval across in a No Nonsense kind of way. You might want to try renting a season of the Dog Whisperer from the library, because he has great ideas on getting across to your dog that you're the alpha dog, so that he respects you in addition to sharing affection, in an instinctive way. This boundary thing is part of that.
posted by acm at 1:39 PM on October 10, 2016
posted by acm at 1:39 PM on October 10, 2016
Please do not pin your dog, or shout at him, or subscribe to outdated and discredited "alpha" training techniques.
Patricia McConnell has a puppy book - The Puppy Primer. She has a page of resources called Is my dog playing appropriately as well.
Karen Pryor also has information on working with nipping in puppies.
posted by Squeak Attack at 2:26 PM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Patricia McConnell has a puppy book - The Puppy Primer. She has a page of resources called Is my dog playing appropriately as well.
Karen Pryor also has information on working with nipping in puppies.
posted by Squeak Attack at 2:26 PM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think he needs time around other dogs. My female dog would teach him not to bite her in seconds and it would stick too. It's worth watching how dogs interact to see how much disapproval it takes to get your puppy to mind, mine that I have now it took some serious "oh hell no! moments to get her not to nip people but she did learn. She's a mouthy beast still but she knows not to bite. She also got quite a lot of grief from older dogs and watching her go back for more made me realise I had to be Very Clear about what was and was not acceptable. Never had such a mouthy dog before.
posted by fshgrl at 2:49 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by fshgrl at 2:49 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
He isn't really bite biting you. He is playing and it gets out of hand because he's young. I cannot play any tug of war games with my 10 year old terrier. He gets over excited and looses control of his mouth. He isn't a bad dog - he is a terrier.
Your dog is young and it sounds like you are inexperienced with dogs. Dogs go through stages of development on their way to adulthood. Some dogs mellow in two years, some never (terriers).
It sounds like you guys are doing lots of great things but have become frustrated with the growing up process. A good trainer/class and reading the books mentioned above - Anything by Patricia McConnel. She even has a FB page where you can ask a question. She is a lovely person and knows what she's talking about.
I am not a fan of the whole alpha dog theory. I unfortunately did that type of training with my little guy when I first got him at 10 weeks. Four months later every time I called him to come he would sit down, fold his ears down, and look away. He was afraid of me. When I finally realized he was afraid it broke my heart. That is when I found Patricia McConnell and her books changed everything for both of us.
My dog is a total pain in the ass. He still poop marks on occasion, he chased a bicyclist two weeks ago, and nipped my neighbors gardener last week. I love him to bits.
I'm sure I have over shared so I apologize if it's boring. I just want you to know that dog's are great companions and the behavior you are describing can be changed. And you can have a dog that you will love and enjoy. You just need to educate yourselves. He will follow your lead, anthromorphizing or not, dog's love us back.
posted by cairnoflore at 8:20 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Your dog is young and it sounds like you are inexperienced with dogs. Dogs go through stages of development on their way to adulthood. Some dogs mellow in two years, some never (terriers).
It sounds like you guys are doing lots of great things but have become frustrated with the growing up process. A good trainer/class and reading the books mentioned above - Anything by Patricia McConnel. She even has a FB page where you can ask a question. She is a lovely person and knows what she's talking about.
I am not a fan of the whole alpha dog theory. I unfortunately did that type of training with my little guy when I first got him at 10 weeks. Four months later every time I called him to come he would sit down, fold his ears down, and look away. He was afraid of me. When I finally realized he was afraid it broke my heart. That is when I found Patricia McConnell and her books changed everything for both of us.
My dog is a total pain in the ass. He still poop marks on occasion, he chased a bicyclist two weeks ago, and nipped my neighbors gardener last week. I love him to bits.
I'm sure I have over shared so I apologize if it's boring. I just want you to know that dog's are great companions and the behavior you are describing can be changed. And you can have a dog that you will love and enjoy. You just need to educate yourselves. He will follow your lead, anthromorphizing or not, dog's love us back.
posted by cairnoflore at 8:20 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
With the yelping, there's a specific tone that worked for our boy, and the others didnt seem to. Kind of a higher pitched cry than a yelp, worked wonders. My land shark German shepherd never nips me now - but he sometimes gets mouthy with my husband, who never mastered it.
I also pin my guy, but not like, with force. It's more like "and now I push very gently and you know what I want and show me your belly and I place my hand gently on it and you stay there until you are calm."
Is either of you roughhousing by any chance? Sometimes that makes dogs bitier, even though they don't mean to.
posted by corb at 8:52 PM on October 10, 2016
I also pin my guy, but not like, with force. It's more like "and now I push very gently and you know what I want and show me your belly and I place my hand gently on it and you stay there until you are calm."
Is either of you roughhousing by any chance? Sometimes that makes dogs bitier, even though they don't mean to.
posted by corb at 8:52 PM on October 10, 2016
Nthing training – preferably in a group so he can meet other dogs – and lots more activity.
I grew up with dogs; we had three Cocker Spaniels and later got a Golden Retriever. Family members had black labs. With every single one of our dogs, I played with them at least twice a day, more often three times. About a half hour in the morning, an hour when I'd get home from school, and another hour in the evenings after dinner (which was also when I fed the dog – singular because we always had one at a time, two of the spaniels were lost very young). The black labs were basically always on, and behaved better the more we played with them.
Our Golden was utterly delighted with group training. Best thing we ever did for her. Started as a rambunctious puppy and she just blossomed around other dogs and discipline. This was in the 80s, but our trainers were already anti-choke collars and much more into a holistic approach, i.e. the mere fact that we were behaving disciplined ourselves would act as an example to the dogs, who would then naturally look up to us. Group training is a lot like a pack: the dogs see that they're all the young'uns and it's the humans running the show. It's very good for we humans too – we can tend to cut corners and minimize stuff at home, when we need discipline training ourselves. There's a lot of role modelling that goes into having a dog.
She was the bestest dog with that training. We built up a mutual trust that lasted throughout her life. I could walk her off leash and she'd heel and mind perfectly, which was what we'd built up to in training, but when out in public we always used the leash just in case. I'd repeat different discipline training things with her about once a week and she was so proud of herself remembering what to do and how to do it.
posted by fraula at 2:00 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I grew up with dogs; we had three Cocker Spaniels and later got a Golden Retriever. Family members had black labs. With every single one of our dogs, I played with them at least twice a day, more often three times. About a half hour in the morning, an hour when I'd get home from school, and another hour in the evenings after dinner (which was also when I fed the dog – singular because we always had one at a time, two of the spaniels were lost very young). The black labs were basically always on, and behaved better the more we played with them.
Our Golden was utterly delighted with group training. Best thing we ever did for her. Started as a rambunctious puppy and she just blossomed around other dogs and discipline. This was in the 80s, but our trainers were already anti-choke collars and much more into a holistic approach, i.e. the mere fact that we were behaving disciplined ourselves would act as an example to the dogs, who would then naturally look up to us. Group training is a lot like a pack: the dogs see that they're all the young'uns and it's the humans running the show. It's very good for we humans too – we can tend to cut corners and minimize stuff at home, when we need discipline training ourselves. There's a lot of role modelling that goes into having a dog.
She was the bestest dog with that training. We built up a mutual trust that lasted throughout her life. I could walk her off leash and she'd heel and mind perfectly, which was what we'd built up to in training, but when out in public we always used the leash just in case. I'd repeat different discipline training things with her about once a week and she was so proud of herself remembering what to do and how to do it.
posted by fraula at 2:00 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I also don't believe in pinning dogs. It's based on faulty science and as someone who goes to off leash areas, dog beaches and dog hikes several times a week for 25 years I've definitely seen a correlation between people who do that and badly behaved and fearful dogs. I think a good scolding in a stern tone of voice with some dramatic pointing followed by several minutes of withholding affection and pointedly ignoring them is the best discipline. Thats super hardcore for a dog, although not so much for a puppy who will come back for more a few times. It's pretty similar to what dogs do to each other and it works.
posted by fshgrl at 9:24 AM on October 11, 2016
posted by fshgrl at 9:24 AM on October 11, 2016
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* When he accidentally bites, stop playing and ignore him for a few minutes. Show him that rough play results in no more play.
* Don't scold him for eliminating inside. That causes dogs to develop anxiety around elimination, which can make house training really hard. It also sounds like your command for eliminating is "outside," so if you're really scolding him with "NO, OUTSIDE" when he goes inside, you might be confusing him.
* It's 100% normal for dogs to sometimes only do a command if there's a treat. Once he masters a command, start weaning him off of treats and proofing the command in different areas. It takes time, especially with stubborn dogs. Practice, practice, practice!
* Also, can you clarify how much exercise he's getting? In my experience, some dogs need a lot more than you would think. My dog is almost 12yo (!) and needs 2 hours of exercise every single day.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 3:53 AM on October 10, 2016 [7 favorites]