Offer for a house was informally accepted, now seller ghosting.
August 24, 2016 7:06 AM   Subscribe

We put in an offer to buy a house. We got a text from our buyer's agent saying it was accepted. We signed the purchase agreement, still waiting for seller signature, but he and his listing agent are suddenly non-responsive...what could be the issue here?

Our buyer's agent is supposed to be the seller's agent as well. I know this is not recommended, now. I am kicking myself for using the same agent as the seller. He is not being helpful at all and I feel like he is keeping us in the dark. I have no idea what's going on and I feel like they are taking advantage of us!

After some back and forth and negotiation, we got a text from the buyer/seller agent saying seller accepted our offer. That afternoon we signed the purchase agreement, and he sent it off to the seller.

Now the seller and the listing agent are non-responsive. We never got the signed purchase agreement. The offer had 24 hour expiration, and they accepted informally within that time frame, but now it seems they are buying time with their signature, which seems wrong. It has been three days, but the transaction has moved very fast and this feels like a screeching stop somehow. Seller has been very responsive so far.

The house has been on the market for 4 months now (way longer than average for this area), and as far as we know there are no other offers.

Is this normal in real state? I am in Richmond, VA.
If we had 10 days to do an inspection, do those ten days start the day seller signs, or the day we sign?
Do I have any recourse to get the seller to make up his damn mind? We're on limbo here. We told our landlord we're moving as soon as our offer got "accepted". He already has people lined up to rent our apartment. We also have an inspection scheduled for next week, and it won't be cheap.
posted by Marduk to Work & Money (24 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: We're on limbo here.

No, unfortunately, you're not. Your offer was declined. An offer is not accepted until it is signed by the seller. An offer that has expired is doubly not accepted.

You can continue to negotiate with the seller - perhaps send them another more attractive offer - but until you have a signed offer, you have no offer whatsoever.

I realize this isn't the answer you're looking for, but sellers are not obligated to respond at all to an offer, nor does a verbal "acceptance" mean anything.
posted by saeculorum at 7:10 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


Response by poster: I realize this isn't the answer you're looking for

This was exactly the answer I was looking for! If we are officially not on the hook to comply with the inspection contingencies I can breathe easy. I wish my buyer's agent had been more clear about this!
posted by Marduk at 7:16 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: OMG It's a Metafilter Miracle!

Just this second I got the freaking offer signed by the seller!

However, I would like to point out for any future readers that I believe saeculorum is right and they went past the expiration date but who am I to complain, I really like this house.
posted by Marduk at 7:21 AM on August 24, 2016 [24 favorites]


Best answer: Nice!

But I'd consider it a warning sign that they might flake out on you at various critical moments down the road.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [11 favorites]


Best answer: I would be very careful at this point. Get your own independent inspector (not on your agent's recommendation) on your own, and be prepared to negotiate hard and see them play further games, because it sounds like your agent isn't on your side and just happy to double-dip.
posted by Karaage at 7:22 AM on August 24, 2016 [37 favorites]


What Karaage said: get prepared to possibly get jerked around more.
posted by griphus at 7:24 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Best answer: On preview: I was going to say that it sounds to me as if the seller has had second thoughts and is dealing with it by avoiding you. But maybe they were just dealing with a crisis. Or maybe they're flakes. As long as you're OK with the deal, then you can ignore the fact that the offer was accepted late.

BTW, not to encourage threadsitting, but what is the distinction you are making between "seller's agent" and "listing agent"? Around here, the listing agent is the seller's agent, so I don't see how you can say that the same agent is the buyer's and seller's agent, but there is also another agent, the listing agent, involved.

Also, here in Massachusetts, once you get to the actual purchase, it's normal for both parties to be represented by attorneys. I'm not sure if that's the case in Virginia, but if not, and you have any questions about any of the paperwork, it might be worth consulting with a real estate lawyer just to give you peace of mind.

And expect other odd things to crop up between now and closing.
posted by brianogilvie at 7:24 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, careful. Could be issues.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:31 AM on August 24, 2016


Best answer: Your timing (for inspections, financing, etc.) start when you get the signed accepted offer. You should get an attorney or a separate buyer's agent to represent you in this transaction. Also, do not use the inspector recommended by the listing (seller's) agent.
posted by sulaine at 7:39 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Double what everyone else has said. Do NOT use anyone recommended by the realtor. They sometimes recommend less than stellar people because kickbacks. Find your own people via reviews, yelp, angie's list, friends. I also very strongly suggest hiring a real estate attorney. In NJ (where we are moving next month) they charge a flat fee to review all papers, and see you through the entire buying process. Strongly recommend!! Ask to see, and to forward to your attorney, all documentation with regards to all systems in the house (heating, air conditioning, etc.) and anything you feel unfamiliar with such as solar panels, septic systems, well water, geo thermal heat, etc etc etc.....that sort of thing. Do not skip the home inspection and ask for things such as termite inspection (if it applies), radon (again....if it applies), water testing, etc etc. Get a seller's disclosure asap (you can ask for it now) to review any possible issues. Once you have gotten your attorney and have gotten an actual signed contract, you can get a home inspector in there to check everything out. Just do your homework and you'll be fine.

Congratulations! It's a really nice area. Wish you the best.
posted by the webmistress at 7:58 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I am not so sure the agent isn't acting reasonably here. There are all sorts of reasons why they were not in constant contact. The bottom line is they produced the signed offer. Maybe they were explaining to the seller that they need to get their act together or they will lose the buyer. Maybe the seller had a family emergency. Maybe the seller just realized themselves that the agent was repping both sides and wanted to negotiate down the commission. Who knows?

Having said that, find your own inspector, attorney and other professionals and buy the house you have your heart set on at a price you think is fair!
posted by AugustWest at 8:00 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: what is the distinction you are making between "seller's agent" and "listing agent"?

I have no idea. The seller's agent introduced himself as the seller's agent when he showed us the house (his contact info was on the "for sale" sign, and that day he also became our buyer's agent.

Then while we were waiting to hear from them (today), he texted me saying "I have asked the listing agent by text, email etc and gotten no response"

Which confused me because I thought seller agent= listing agent. I feel like I am way out of my depth here and a real state attorney sounds like a good idea.
posted by Marduk at 8:04 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Best answer: Also to note that in NJ our real estate attorney only actually charges their flat fee if we go to settlement/closing. If for some reason the deal fall through before that happens, there is no charge, no matter how much time they've spent reviewing the paperwork. Not sure if it is the same in VA but it's something to inquire about when vetting lawyers.
posted by the webmistress at 8:12 AM on August 24, 2016


Virginia does not require that you have an attorney in the process transaction process.

I think you're getting swept up in the excitement of this and the pressure you feel in terms of your current apartment, because it does not appear that you're getting adequate guidance on this.

Here are things I would do:
- Call the agent. I'd want to know specifically the following questions, and will write them down.
* What is the name of the seller's agent?
* What is the name of the listing agent?
* What is the difference between the two?
* Are you currently my buyer's agent as well?
* To whom do you have a fiduciary duty?
* How does the commission structure work on this, if you represent both me and the seller?
* If I negotiate with the buyer on the price of the house, how will this work?

- Review closely again the document you signed when the agent "became your buyer's agent." What does the document say, and does it clarify to you what his role is in your responsibility? Are you positive he's your buyer's agent? Is there a written disclosure as to who he is representing (which is usually required).

In a lot of cases, people get "buyer's agents" to help them find a house and represent and negotiate on their behalf. In this case it sounds like you already found the house on your own, and it's not very clear what role the agent is serving - so you need to be very clear as to who's interest is he representing.
posted by Karaage at 8:44 AM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


In my experiences, when the seller's agent and the buyer's agent were the same person, they discounted their commission, so ask about that!
posted by cecic at 8:47 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Not required" is not the same as a good idea for a first timer. You can represent yourself in court too, after all.

A lawyer will add to out-of-pocket costs, but you can often roll those into the mortgage. Talk to your bank/lender. Even if that means an equity line of credit.

That doesn't mean you should not double check your lawyer too. On my first house, the lawyer made an arithmetic mistake on municipal taxes that would have cost me a few hundred dollars. However, it was still worth having him simply for the mechanical filing parts of it all.

I also second the notion to trust your "agent" with as little as possible in this instance. With double agency it's never clear who's best interest they're working for. It's utterly unethical in my view, but you're where you are now. Get your own recommendations for lawyer and inspectors.

My previous selling agents worked with "listing agents" who were essentially office and web-support staff for them. The listers put the property on MLS and prepared some of the brochure materials. Cost was invisible to me as a seller, absorbed in the agent fees.
posted by bonehead at 9:17 AM on August 24, 2016


Another possibility: the people at open houses are often less experienced agents who are the co-workers of the listing agents. (The listing agents are often busy and don't need more business, so they farm out the open houses to junior associates who get the chance to meet people and pick up business.)

Either way, though, he should have been communicating with you during the period of the seller's silence, and he should have been pinging the seller on your behalf. That he did not makes me feel that he is either very busy, very passive, or he has something up his sleeve.

I agree with the folks who would seek a real estate lawyer in this case. Costs money but doing a real estate deal wrong can cost a lot more money.

Important stuff to look for besides the general inspection: have someone sweep for buried oil tanks on the property, sewer scope, radon test.

Good luck during the inspection period!!
posted by hungrytiger at 10:16 AM on August 24, 2016


If you're in Virginia and haven't signed a written agreement with the realtor, they don't represent you. They are required by law to act in the best interests of the seller. (Actually, the agent will usually act in their own best interest, which is to get the property sold.) You need your own representation, someone who's experienced. You'll enter into an agreement with them as your dedicated Buyer's Agent.
posted by wryly at 10:18 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thank you for your replies. We did sign an agreement with the agent, stating he is our buyer's agent until October. He did help us negotiate and we did get a discount (and the seller will cover our closing fees, which yay), but I agree that it does not seem to be ideal at all for him to represent both sides.

I get the feeling that they are not being intentionally scammy, just kind of informal about the whole process. Thankfully my SO is a building inspector, and has a reliable contact who will do our inspection thoroughly.

I have found a local real estate attorney and will consult with her later today.
posted by Marduk at 10:55 AM on August 24, 2016


Stop letting this agent text you. They need to email you this kind of information. Texts are too easily doctored later on and do not hold up nearly as well as the paper trail an ongoing email convo provides. Just start saying, "Please email this to me so we can have it for our records," and if they balk at ALL, prepare yourselves, 'cause it sounds like you may have more troubles down the line.
posted by Hermione Granger at 11:34 AM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


In addition to lawyer, you should ask the agent's broker (ie the Big Boss at the RE agency) to assign you a different agent to represent you in-house, such that the sellers and you have different agents. This is a common way to mitigate conflicts of interest, which already seem to be evident here.

Just the fact that the listing agent conned you into signing a buyers' agency, at the showing, that immediately made him dual agent -- highly uncool, unethical, and quite clearly taking advantage of your naivete.

And don't ever, ever sign a buyers' agency agreement again. They are never in YOUR best interest.
posted by Dashy at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


we did get a discount (and the seller will cover our closing fees, which yay)

I don't know what your closing fees are, but the agent is still benefiting disproportionately here.

An agent should make about 2.5% on a residential deal. This person is likely making 5%, both seller's and buyer's agent fees, if they're using standard rates. Unless your closing costs are 2.5% of the sale price, they're getting a real bonus on this deal from both the front and back end.

You've got the deal you've got, but be aware that both you and the seller were kind of taken advantage of here in terms of fair representation and ability to bargain. This may have been to your benefit in this case, as agents typically prefer a fast sale to holding out for higher prices, particularly given that this had been on the market for a while.
posted by bonehead at 11:58 AM on August 24, 2016


Where I am you have to sign, as part of the Agreement of Sale, a separate form that indicates that you understand who is representing whom (whether it's two separate agents or joint agency, and whether the sharing is a firm or a person). None of those situations is either uncommon or shady, but you do need to be made aware, so that you can proceed appropriately.
posted by acm at 2:17 PM on August 24, 2016


Our friends recently bought a home in Maryland and found an independent, extremely high quality inspector. They had to pay $250 more, but (a) the issues found are basically a checklist of the items that need to be repaired (most of them over time) in their 80 year old house, and (b) the inspector found 2 *huge* issues that the sellers had to repair before the deal was finalized. Our friends easily saved $7,000 from their high quality inspection, even though they had to pay more for the inspection.
posted by apennington at 2:27 PM on August 24, 2016


« Older Making experimental films from my holiday photos   |   Oh crap Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.