Can I still eat this kimchi?
August 21, 2016 9:49 PM Subscribe
My jar of store-bought kimchi has white stuff growing on it. I suspect it's yeast. Can I still eat it if I discard the yeasty parts?
I really like kimchi, but I don't get to Uwajimaya all that often, so I've taken to buying it in gallon-size containers. I haven't eaten any for a few weeks, though, and when I went to get some to put in my ramen I discovered this white stuff growing on it. (Here it is with a couple of typical colonies circled.) The white stuff is smooth and scrapes off easily. It smells faintly yeasty. My gut instinct is that it looks like yeast, it smells like yeast, and yeast is a Known Issue with kimchi, so it's probably yeast and I can probably just discard the top layer and eat the rest. But I thought I'd run it by you guys first.
Possibly relevant: I have kept it refrigerated as directed on the packaging, and everything below the level of the liquid still seems normal.
Bonus question: I assume this wouldn't happen if all of the kimchi was below brine level, but there's often not enough brine in the store-bought stuff to quite cover all of it. Is there any safe way to add a bit more brine?
I really like kimchi, but I don't get to Uwajimaya all that often, so I've taken to buying it in gallon-size containers. I haven't eaten any for a few weeks, though, and when I went to get some to put in my ramen I discovered this white stuff growing on it. (Here it is with a couple of typical colonies circled.) The white stuff is smooth and scrapes off easily. It smells faintly yeasty. My gut instinct is that it looks like yeast, it smells like yeast, and yeast is a Known Issue with kimchi, so it's probably yeast and I can probably just discard the top layer and eat the rest. But I thought I'd run it by you guys first.
Possibly relevant: I have kept it refrigerated as directed on the packaging, and everything below the level of the liquid still seems normal.
Bonus question: I assume this wouldn't happen if all of the kimchi was below brine level, but there's often not enough brine in the store-bought stuff to quite cover all of it. Is there any safe way to add a bit more brine?
If it were me I would just scrape the top layer off and eat the rest. I just did this to some homemade sauerkraut I had languishing in the back of my fridge. The brine is what keeps it from molding so if you expose it to air you get mold like anything else. Don't eat the mold and you'll be fine.
Fairly common I guess with fermented foods and I've never gotten sick.
posted by bradbane at 10:00 PM on August 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fairly common I guess with fermented foods and I've never gotten sick.
posted by bradbane at 10:00 PM on August 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Take the gunk off, top off with more brine, and you should be okay. To be extra careful perhaps add the kimchi to your ramen while it's boiling in the pot.
I'd also suggest turning down the temp in your fridge, if you can.
posted by InkDrinker at 11:19 PM on August 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd also suggest turning down the temp in your fridge, if you can.
posted by InkDrinker at 11:19 PM on August 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
If it isn't mold, it could be growing alongside other bacteria or mold.
Molds are sometimes extremely dangerous and can contain neurotoxins.
This USDA "Molds on Food: Are They Dangerous" guide might help.
A derived slideshow says that the softer a food is, the more likely that mold will have spread throughout, and possibly have poisonous substances associated with it -- deep within the food mass, even if the visible part is localized.
Molds are not to be trivialized. Be careful.
posted by amtho at 12:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Molds are sometimes extremely dangerous and can contain neurotoxins.
This USDA "Molds on Food: Are They Dangerous" guide might help.
A derived slideshow says that the softer a food is, the more likely that mold will have spread throughout, and possibly have poisonous substances associated with it -- deep within the food mass, even if the visible part is localized.
Molds are not to be trivialized. Be careful.
posted by amtho at 12:10 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
You have no idea whether it is pathogenic or not. Let it go.
posted by kamikazegopher at 12:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kamikazegopher at 12:16 AM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
It is kahm yeast and it's super common on fermented veg. Just scrape it off, everything under the brine is fine. It's safe to eat, but doesn't taste great.
http://www.fermentedfoodlab.com/what-is-that-white-milky-stuff-on-my-fermented-veggies/
And yes, raising the brine level would fix it.
posted by Lame_username at 2:19 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
http://www.fermentedfoodlab.com/what-is-that-white-milky-stuff-on-my-fermented-veggies/
And yes, raising the brine level would fix it.
posted by Lame_username at 2:19 AM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Grew up eating kimchi, never seen that before. Toss it!
posted by suedehead at 3:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by suedehead at 3:46 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's hard to tell if this is mold or kahm yeast because your brine level is below the cabbage.
In my experience there is enough liquid in cabbage to get the brine above the kimchi. You may have to bruise the cabbage more thoroughly, or pack it more tightly down into the jar before starting the fermentation. Or use a weight -- I've used a plastic 1kg yogurt container lid with success.
As for this batch ... it's tough to tell what this is. It looks like could be mold. Actually in your second picture, the white stuff between the two circles, that looks more like mold than kahm yeast to me. It looks like the white dots might be raised. If it stays flat and has the texture of algae, that's kahm yeast, but this doesn't look like that.
Is this container airlocked? If so then it is far less likely to be mold as opposed to yeast, because mold development requires oxygen as I understand it.
Regardless of if it's mold or yeast and if it's safe, I would say that anything below the brine level is going to be safe regardless, and you can still throw away the top layer that's been exposed to air.
posted by cotterpin at 4:43 AM on August 22, 2016
In my experience there is enough liquid in cabbage to get the brine above the kimchi. You may have to bruise the cabbage more thoroughly, or pack it more tightly down into the jar before starting the fermentation. Or use a weight -- I've used a plastic 1kg yogurt container lid with success.
As for this batch ... it's tough to tell what this is. It looks like could be mold. Actually in your second picture, the white stuff between the two circles, that looks more like mold than kahm yeast to me. It looks like the white dots might be raised. If it stays flat and has the texture of algae, that's kahm yeast, but this doesn't look like that.
Is this container airlocked? If so then it is far less likely to be mold as opposed to yeast, because mold development requires oxygen as I understand it.
Regardless of if it's mold or yeast and if it's safe, I would say that anything below the brine level is going to be safe regardless, and you can still throw away the top layer that's been exposed to air.
posted by cotterpin at 4:43 AM on August 22, 2016
To be clear, fixing the brine level is for the next batch. It's too late for this one. You can't dunk moldy pickles into a salt solution and make the mold go away.
posted by cotterpin at 5:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by cotterpin at 5:33 AM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm leaning slightly with the folk who say this is common, just carefully discard the top layer and eat.
Let us know how it goes!
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:12 AM on August 22, 2016
Let us know how it goes!
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:12 AM on August 22, 2016
I have a culinary degree. I ferment things. Do Not Eat out of caution and value you place on your own wellbeing over a few bucks.
Nthing neurotoxins and that mold grows through soft organic material. You can't test its safety. Dump it.
posted by jbenben at 8:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nthing neurotoxins and that mold grows through soft organic material. You can't test its safety. Dump it.
posted by jbenben at 8:56 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Eat something else you love instead, like a slice of cake or a fresh jar of pickled okra or even Thai food. Then you won't be so sad about the kimchi. Sorry....
posted by amtho at 10:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 10:07 AM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Eating kimchi of various types and ages for more than 30 years. This would be a solid toss for me as I've never seen that happen before.
posted by kkokkodalk at 1:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kkokkodalk at 1:03 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Caveat: Kimchi is one of those things where recipes very greatly by your family and region, so this is super general, also this isn't homemade so I can only speculate.
For brine levels, considering this is store-bought, I can't say how it was made, but for most red baechu kimchi types the act of fermentation creates enough liquid over time that'll eventually cover it or be close to it. It's why for this type of kimchi some recipes calls for making a paste by boiling water and sweet rice powder (or flour can work too) to add to the fish sauce and/or other salted shrimp and seafood things (depending on region/family recipe), gochugaru, blended onion/garlic/ginger "herbal" things that'll create a thick paste of spices that coats the cabbage in the sauce like a hug to allow for maximum flavor penetration as well as keeping the vegetables covered in the sauce as the liquid content rises. So it starts off not really covered by brine at all, but the vegetable itself is never fully exposed. You can kind of add brine of sorts when initially making it by using a little bit of salt water to wash out the mixing container you used to pour the rest of spice mixture into your container holding the kimchi, but this brine isn't really supposed to be the base of your baechu kimchi brine. That's more if you really want all that paste in there, but most people just scrape it in with their hands because addition of water can water it down.
There are separate brine-based kimchis such as your typical mul kimchis, nabak kimchi or donchimis, where adding water happens at some point (dongchimi starts off with generously coating large pieces of korean muu radish in coarse salt and letting it sit and ferment, but you can add fresh water once that process is done to taste if the brine that occurs is too salty), but for the most part, the red muchim type kimchis are self brine generating. Problems of improper fermentation is mostly based on not enough salt content (in the wilting of the cabbage initially, or the amount of fish sauce you add) and storage. Considering some baechu kimchi recipes allow for you to include raw oysters or even pieces of (salted) squid and fish inside the sauce as it sits to ferment (again not done by everyone), that should be some clue of how the salt level and spices in the sauce should be a stable environment for fermentation. And in the case of pogi or tong (whole) baechu kimchi, this is why the way that the cabbage is wrapped and stacked is important because it is also supposed to prevent this sort of thing from happening by not allowing a lot of air pockets to occur within your kimchi.
To give you some more idea that's not just opinions from me, I did a quick search for you on Korean sites about "white stuff growing on my kimchi" and the consensus also says most common answer is that it is usually mold or other impurities from frequently handling (because of the nature of the way kimchi is made and consumed) that can grow. And the reasons it occurs are also frequently given is too much contact with air, such as when you don't have enough brine/sauce to cover your kimchi or the kimchi is improperly stored (too much air is allowed in through not closing properly, etc.). The opinions on whether or not you should eat this are mixed so it seems like a ymmv thing, but if it's not kimchi you made I'd probably err on the side of caution and toss it. If you buy this particular brand of kimchi again you might want to eat it as soon as possible rather than store it for too long, or try to keep the kimchi at an even level and press it down so that it is together more and any brine will cover it. If you have a little left and don't see yourself eating it any time soon, move it to a smaller air-tight container that leaves about half an inch of room from the top of your kimchi to the lid.
posted by kkokkodalk at 1:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
For brine levels, considering this is store-bought, I can't say how it was made, but for most red baechu kimchi types the act of fermentation creates enough liquid over time that'll eventually cover it or be close to it. It's why for this type of kimchi some recipes calls for making a paste by boiling water and sweet rice powder (or flour can work too) to add to the fish sauce and/or other salted shrimp and seafood things (depending on region/family recipe), gochugaru, blended onion/garlic/ginger "herbal" things that'll create a thick paste of spices that coats the cabbage in the sauce like a hug to allow for maximum flavor penetration as well as keeping the vegetables covered in the sauce as the liquid content rises. So it starts off not really covered by brine at all, but the vegetable itself is never fully exposed. You can kind of add brine of sorts when initially making it by using a little bit of salt water to wash out the mixing container you used to pour the rest of spice mixture into your container holding the kimchi, but this brine isn't really supposed to be the base of your baechu kimchi brine. That's more if you really want all that paste in there, but most people just scrape it in with their hands because addition of water can water it down.
There are separate brine-based kimchis such as your typical mul kimchis, nabak kimchi or donchimis, where adding water happens at some point (dongchimi starts off with generously coating large pieces of korean muu radish in coarse salt and letting it sit and ferment, but you can add fresh water once that process is done to taste if the brine that occurs is too salty), but for the most part, the red muchim type kimchis are self brine generating. Problems of improper fermentation is mostly based on not enough salt content (in the wilting of the cabbage initially, or the amount of fish sauce you add) and storage. Considering some baechu kimchi recipes allow for you to include raw oysters or even pieces of (salted) squid and fish inside the sauce as it sits to ferment (again not done by everyone), that should be some clue of how the salt level and spices in the sauce should be a stable environment for fermentation. And in the case of pogi or tong (whole) baechu kimchi, this is why the way that the cabbage is wrapped and stacked is important because it is also supposed to prevent this sort of thing from happening by not allowing a lot of air pockets to occur within your kimchi.
To give you some more idea that's not just opinions from me, I did a quick search for you on Korean sites about "white stuff growing on my kimchi" and the consensus also says most common answer is that it is usually mold or other impurities from frequently handling (because of the nature of the way kimchi is made and consumed) that can grow. And the reasons it occurs are also frequently given is too much contact with air, such as when you don't have enough brine/sauce to cover your kimchi or the kimchi is improperly stored (too much air is allowed in through not closing properly, etc.). The opinions on whether or not you should eat this are mixed so it seems like a ymmv thing, but if it's not kimchi you made I'd probably err on the side of caution and toss it. If you buy this particular brand of kimchi again you might want to eat it as soon as possible rather than store it for too long, or try to keep the kimchi at an even level and press it down so that it is together more and any brine will cover it. If you have a little left and don't see yourself eating it any time soon, move it to a smaller air-tight container that leaves about half an inch of room from the top of your kimchi to the lid.
posted by kkokkodalk at 1:34 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Well, the consensus of kimchi experts seems to be "toss it", so into the compost it goes, and I'll be more careful next time. Thanks for all your expertise (especially kkokkodalk's informative essay!)
posted by fermion at 1:34 AM on August 24, 2016
posted by fermion at 1:34 AM on August 24, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Toddles at 9:53 PM on August 21, 2016 [9 favorites]