What should my salary be in Amsterdam?
August 11, 2016 10:50 AM Subscribe
How much do I need to make in Amsterdam to approximate my salary of $150k in San Francisco, CA.
I currently live in Oakland, CA, work in SF, and my last salary position paid $150,000/year (I'm currently freelance). I've found a position I'm interested in that is located in Amsterdam and the company is interested in me and I believe this will move into a formal interview scenario soon. I'm wondering what is a good way to figure out an appropriate salary in Amsterdam to maintain my standard of living while taking into account the differing cost of living and tax rates and national benefits, etc.
I currently live in Oakland, CA, work in SF, and my last salary position paid $150,000/year (I'm currently freelance). I've found a position I'm interested in that is located in Amsterdam and the company is interested in me and I believe this will move into a formal interview scenario soon. I'm wondering what is a good way to figure out an appropriate salary in Amsterdam to maintain my standard of living while taking into account the differing cost of living and tax rates and national benefits, etc.
Expat living can be difficult and isolating. I'd definitely pad my salary expectations upward to be able to throw money at unexpected culture shock. More trips back to the US? Importing in comfort food? Some chores are suddenly unbearable?
When I moved from Texas to San Francisco, sure, there was a huge cost of living adjustment. But even after that, there are areas I spend way more here just because change is hard and it either reminds me of home or reminds me I'm happy and lucky to be here.
When companies transfer folks overseas, they are usually throwing in all kinds of perks on top of higher pay. They're not doing it because they're nice, they're compensating their employees just enough that they don't quit.
posted by politikitty at 12:26 PM on August 11, 2016
When I moved from Texas to San Francisco, sure, there was a huge cost of living adjustment. But even after that, there are areas I spend way more here just because change is hard and it either reminds me of home or reminds me I'm happy and lucky to be here.
When companies transfer folks overseas, they are usually throwing in all kinds of perks on top of higher pay. They're not doing it because they're nice, they're compensating their employees just enough that they don't quit.
posted by politikitty at 12:26 PM on August 11, 2016
Seconding neushoorn. I live in The Hague, not Amsterdam, but I moved over as a kennismigrant two years ago from Chicago. I took a eyewatering paycut in going to local-normal salary and was a bit worried about it. Turns out, the 30% ruling (which exempts 30% of your gross income from tax) is a big deal, and the CoL is genuinely much lower here -- it doesn't feel like it at first, but my savings account speaks for itself.
In addition to Pararius, you can also check Funda for an idea of prices. The words you want are huren/te huur/huurwoning for rentals, kopen/te koop/koopwoning for purchase. Verhuurd means already rented, verkocht means sold. For rentals, "kaal" means empty and it means REALLY empty; you will have to install your own light fixtures, laminate/etc flooring, window treatments, and maybe you have to BYO kitchen. As a newbie, you probably want gestoffeerd (semi-furnished; flooring and maybe lights and window treatments; it depends) or gemeubileerd (furnished), but these often do have additional monthly charges outside the base rent. So be careful when comparing listings, apples-to-apples can be hard. Anyways, read some sarcastic humor here.
What's your industry? Maybe we can give you some idea of what to expect so you won't be going in blind.
Unrelated pro tip: if you come here, and you get the 30% ruling, trade in your driver's license for a Dutch license asap. You only get 6 months to do it, all you have to do is fill in a form for the RDW and mail it in, and if you miss your window, you have to take classes and the theory/practical exams instead, which can be expensive. Yes, it's nuts that they give you a driver's license trade-in as part of a tax break. If you think you will need or want to drive, do it anyway. I have several coworkers that didn't and they regret it.
posted by sldownard at 12:54 PM on August 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
In addition to Pararius, you can also check Funda for an idea of prices. The words you want are huren/te huur/huurwoning for rentals, kopen/te koop/koopwoning for purchase. Verhuurd means already rented, verkocht means sold. For rentals, "kaal" means empty and it means REALLY empty; you will have to install your own light fixtures, laminate/etc flooring, window treatments, and maybe you have to BYO kitchen. As a newbie, you probably want gestoffeerd (semi-furnished; flooring and maybe lights and window treatments; it depends) or gemeubileerd (furnished), but these often do have additional monthly charges outside the base rent. So be careful when comparing listings, apples-to-apples can be hard. Anyways, read some sarcastic humor here.
What's your industry? Maybe we can give you some idea of what to expect so you won't be going in blind.
Unrelated pro tip: if you come here, and you get the 30% ruling, trade in your driver's license for a Dutch license asap. You only get 6 months to do it, all you have to do is fill in a form for the RDW and mail it in, and if you miss your window, you have to take classes and the theory/practical exams instead, which can be expensive. Yes, it's nuts that they give you a driver's license trade-in as part of a tax break. If you think you will need or want to drive, do it anyway. I have several coworkers that didn't and they regret it.
posted by sldownard at 12:54 PM on August 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks all. Great info so far.
sidownard, my industry is video post production, particularly in the advertising field. I'm an editor and motion graphics artist.
posted by matt_od at 1:01 PM on August 11, 2016
sidownard, my industry is video post production, particularly in the advertising field. I'm an editor and motion graphics artist.
posted by matt_od at 1:01 PM on August 11, 2016
cost of living caluclator
it was pretty accurate for my previous international moves.
posted by chasles at 1:50 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
it was pretty accurate for my previous international moves.
posted by chasles at 1:50 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm wondering what is a good way to figure out an appropriate salary in Amsterdam to maintain my standard of living
Part of this is understanding that your standard of living may be equivalent but different. For example, you will get a lot more holiday, but may need to adjust to a much smaller or more expensive apartment. It really is a total package and not just the cash on the table, but that's probably clear to you anyway.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:52 PM on August 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
Part of this is understanding that your standard of living may be equivalent but different. For example, you will get a lot more holiday, but may need to adjust to a much smaller or more expensive apartment. It really is a total package and not just the cash on the table, but that's probably clear to you anyway.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:52 PM on August 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: DarlingBri, for sure. I understand that very well.
posted by matt_od at 2:39 PM on August 11, 2016
posted by matt_od at 2:39 PM on August 11, 2016
Since you specify your field now, you might be actually working/living in Hilversum. Is that the case?
posted by humboldt32 at 3:28 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by humboldt32 at 3:28 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Yep! Working at least. The company my girlfriend works for has an office in Amsterdam proper, so I could see doing the east side of Amsterdam or somewhere in between.
posted by matt_od at 3:33 PM on August 11, 2016
posted by matt_od at 3:33 PM on August 11, 2016
I just plugged in my various cities for fun on Numbeo, the calculator that chasles links, and the results were pretty darn accurate in my anecdotal experience.
posted by 8603 at 3:36 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by 8603 at 3:36 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: humbold32, what do you know/think about Hilversum? Most amazing place ever, or what?!
posted by matt_od at 3:42 PM on August 11, 2016
posted by matt_od at 3:42 PM on August 11, 2016
As an expat, I would not live in Hilversum. But then factor in the cost/headache of a train commute. It's not that long of a commute, but the trains break/are late with alarming frequency. Amsterdam East has some really nice areas, and is cheaper than the west side.
posted by frumiousb at 4:34 PM on August 11, 2016
posted by frumiousb at 4:34 PM on August 11, 2016
Response by poster: Thanks frumiosb. Out of curiosity, why would you not want to live in Hilversum?
posted by matt_od at 4:47 PM on August 11, 2016
posted by matt_od at 4:47 PM on August 11, 2016
I lived in the Netherlands for 20 years. Smaller Dutch towns can be very challenging for expats, and they don't offer an international feel. Dutch television is very Dutch, and so is the community.
(If you have kids, my advice would be different.)
In my time in NL, I lived in Weesp, Utrecht, Amsterdam and Delft and I was happiest in Amsterdam. If your commute kills you, you can always move to Hilversum later.
posted by frumiousb at 4:53 PM on August 11, 2016 [4 favorites]
(If you have kids, my advice would be different.)
In my time in NL, I lived in Weesp, Utrecht, Amsterdam and Delft and I was happiest in Amsterdam. If your commute kills you, you can always move to Hilversum later.
posted by frumiousb at 4:53 PM on August 11, 2016 [4 favorites]
Agree with what frumiousb said. Smaller, extra-Dutchie places are hard for foreigners to get along. I do know two separate ex-pats that both lived in Hilversum. They eventually moved to Amsterdam.
And as mentioned, the Oost is a bit cheaper than the west and there are some really nice areas. With the cost of living cited in your OP, you might want to look at the Watergraafsmeer area. Or if you want something a bit more in town, the 1018 post code is really blooming right now. If I were looking to buy, I would focus on the Bos en Lommer area for good investment. It's often said to be the next area to gentrify.
posted by humboldt32 at 5:10 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
And as mentioned, the Oost is a bit cheaper than the west and there are some really nice areas. With the cost of living cited in your OP, you might want to look at the Watergraafsmeer area. Or if you want something a bit more in town, the 1018 post code is really blooming right now. If I were looking to buy, I would focus on the Bos en Lommer area for good investment. It's often said to be the next area to gentrify.
posted by humboldt32 at 5:10 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I work in Hilversum but don't live there. Personally, I wouldn't commute from Amsterdam to Hilversum; there are very few direct trains, and more changes = many more opportunities for delays. Also, the Sportpark and Media Park stations are terrible when you have to wait for a train in bad weather.
However, Amsterdam is much more appealing than Hilversum for young expats who like to go out in the evenings. Hilversum has a nice city center and some really good restaurants, but in general the city shuts down after 18:00. My colleagues with kids do love it, though. And in the NL, living within cycling distance of your work is super nice.
Personally, if I could move, I'd go to Utrecht. I think it's comparable to Amsterdam when it comes to nightlife and expat-friendliness, and it's much closer to Hilversum.
posted by neushoorn at 10:51 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
However, Amsterdam is much more appealing than Hilversum for young expats who like to go out in the evenings. Hilversum has a nice city center and some really good restaurants, but in general the city shuts down after 18:00. My colleagues with kids do love it, though. And in the NL, living within cycling distance of your work is super nice.
Personally, if I could move, I'd go to Utrecht. I think it's comparable to Amsterdam when it comes to nightlife and expat-friendliness, and it's much closer to Hilversum.
posted by neushoorn at 10:51 PM on August 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Ok, so this site gives the annual average salary (as reported by the gov't) as € 36.500 (gross/bruto € 2.808 per month and net/netto € 2.021), but people in the Randstad (Amsterdam/Rotterdam/The Hague/Utrecht) will be higher than, say, people in Friesland, so ymmv. I didn't find a whole lot looking specifically for video jobs; Glassdoor had one video editor posting a salary of €49-53k, and this (9 year old) post mentions an in-house editor earning €3400 bruto pm, or roughly €41k. So I imagine that you'd probably be looking at something in the €55-60+ range.
For what you need to know about how you will spend your money:
1. You are required to have mandatory health insurance (basiszorgverzekering), which you choose from a number of possible insurers. Depending on what you want (vision and dental are extra), this will be somewhere around €100-130 p/m. CZ is a well-known insurer that has an English site you can look at for ideas. You can pay quarterly, twice a year, or once a year, and cut the cost slightly.
2. Insurance is A Thing here. People typically have what I refer to as "oops, I spilled red wine on your white couch" insurance (because that is always, without fail, the example people use when justifying it) -- personal liability insurance (aansprakelijkheidsverzekering), about €7 p/m, lots of people also have "emergency legal assistance" insurance (Rechtsbijstandverzekering) which will run you another couple bucks a month.
3. I priced out a quickie A'dam Centraal-Hilversum trip with 9292 and your best train plan if you commute 5 days/week is an annual pass at €1800 (base rate is about €250 p/m). You'd probably also want a bike; a good used bike should run you at least €100 if you want one that is not stolen, new prices can be from €200-250 for an omafiets (one gear, backpedal brakes); I just got a really nice city bike for €700 plus another €50 for a lock so it doesn't get stolen in six weeks like the last one. Speaking of which, bike insurance: if you buy a nice bike, get the bike insurance. Bike theft is basically a sport here.
4. Food costs: about €200 per single adult per month.
So this is €2400 for food, €1800 for commute costs, €1400 for basiszorg- and aansprakelijkheidsverzekeringen = €5600. Rent, I don't know what your preferred standard is for housing, but for easy math purposes let's just go with €1k to start (which may be lowballing AMS; it's decent-but-not-fancy for The Hague), add on €100 p/m for gas/electric and cable/internet all-in-one at €70 p/m, a couple hundred bucks a year for water/sewer/trash if that's not covered by your landlord, and call it €20k total for as your minimum annual spend. That aligns reasonably well with the national average salary of ~€24k net.
Toiletries I'd say are priced pretty much the same as in the US (€7 for shampoo, €10 for hair dye in a box, €10 for contact solution) so just port that number over from your previous budget. Incidentals: movie tickets €11, say €25 p/m for random tram rides or day trips to go have fun, a night at a bar can cost you €30 on up (the default beer, a biertje (half pint) is probably €2,25 or so? But if you like beer, we have lots of really nice beers thanks to Belgium and Germany, so it's easy to go out of that price range. Dammit.), eating out can be cheap (€5-10 at the kebab place) or $$$. Lots of cheap flights out of AMS to all over Europe so weekend getaways can be a couple hundred.
And let's throw in a tax preparer who can deal with your Dutch and US income taxes. Dutch income taxes are easy but you'll need at least some Dutch to understand, but US taxes are a PITA, so just give someone €300 per year and don't worry about it.
To summarize my bar napkin calculations here, if you come in with a gross salary of €60k and get the 30% ruling (so €18k of your income is untaxed), your tax liability is about €13k, so your net income should be around €47k, and you'll be spending about half that on living costs to start. So even if you drop €10k on Ikea on day 1, you should be looking pretty healthy overall.
posted by sldownard at 12:05 AM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
For what you need to know about how you will spend your money:
1. You are required to have mandatory health insurance (basiszorgverzekering), which you choose from a number of possible insurers. Depending on what you want (vision and dental are extra), this will be somewhere around €100-130 p/m. CZ is a well-known insurer that has an English site you can look at for ideas. You can pay quarterly, twice a year, or once a year, and cut the cost slightly.
2. Insurance is A Thing here. People typically have what I refer to as "oops, I spilled red wine on your white couch" insurance (because that is always, without fail, the example people use when justifying it) -- personal liability insurance (aansprakelijkheidsverzekering), about €7 p/m, lots of people also have "emergency legal assistance" insurance (Rechtsbijstandverzekering) which will run you another couple bucks a month.
3. I priced out a quickie A'dam Centraal-Hilversum trip with 9292 and your best train plan if you commute 5 days/week is an annual pass at €1800 (base rate is about €250 p/m). You'd probably also want a bike; a good used bike should run you at least €100 if you want one that is not stolen, new prices can be from €200-250 for an omafiets (one gear, backpedal brakes); I just got a really nice city bike for €700 plus another €50 for a lock so it doesn't get stolen in six weeks like the last one. Speaking of which, bike insurance: if you buy a nice bike, get the bike insurance. Bike theft is basically a sport here.
4. Food costs: about €200 per single adult per month.
So this is €2400 for food, €1800 for commute costs, €1400 for basiszorg- and aansprakelijkheidsverzekeringen = €5600. Rent, I don't know what your preferred standard is for housing, but for easy math purposes let's just go with €1k to start (which may be lowballing AMS; it's decent-but-not-fancy for The Hague), add on €100 p/m for gas/electric and cable/internet all-in-one at €70 p/m, a couple hundred bucks a year for water/sewer/trash if that's not covered by your landlord, and call it €20k total for as your minimum annual spend. That aligns reasonably well with the national average salary of ~€24k net.
Toiletries I'd say are priced pretty much the same as in the US (€7 for shampoo, €10 for hair dye in a box, €10 for contact solution) so just port that number over from your previous budget. Incidentals: movie tickets €11, say €25 p/m for random tram rides or day trips to go have fun, a night at a bar can cost you €30 on up (the default beer, a biertje (half pint) is probably €2,25 or so? But if you like beer, we have lots of really nice beers thanks to Belgium and Germany, so it's easy to go out of that price range. Dammit.), eating out can be cheap (€5-10 at the kebab place) or $$$. Lots of cheap flights out of AMS to all over Europe so weekend getaways can be a couple hundred.
And let's throw in a tax preparer who can deal with your Dutch and US income taxes. Dutch income taxes are easy but you'll need at least some Dutch to understand, but US taxes are a PITA, so just give someone €300 per year and don't worry about it.
To summarize my bar napkin calculations here, if you come in with a gross salary of €60k and get the 30% ruling (so €18k of your income is untaxed), your tax liability is about €13k, so your net income should be around €47k, and you'll be spending about half that on living costs to start. So even if you drop €10k on Ikea on day 1, you should be looking pretty healthy overall.
posted by sldownard at 12:05 AM on August 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, I should also mention that the 30% ruling is not indefinite -- it's limited to 8 years. So it's not free money forever, it's only free money until you have presumably bought all the things you need to bootstrap a life here, spending all that money at our fine local retailers. If you want to browse online to price stuff, De Bijenkorf is a high-end department store, Media Markt is basically Best Buy, HEMA is Target, and Marktplaats is Craigslist.
posted by sldownard at 12:23 AM on August 12, 2016
posted by sldownard at 12:23 AM on August 12, 2016
Americans who are recruited to European companies are sometimes a bit shocked to find out that the life into which they need to assimilate is (for want of a better word) a lot more materially intense then their ideas, or their college-age backpacking trips, led them to believe.
It's quite common professional-class people to have suburban houses with two cars in the garage, golf club memberships, and a lot of other suburbanite trappings, or if they live in the city to have fairly expensive houses in the country. Stay at home moms are extremely common. The amount of vacation time and holidays is unimaginably large by American standards ... but people spend a lot of money using that time.
(Also -- watch out for recruitment where you are technically hired by the US subsidiary and put on assignment in Europe, but still get paid in USD and still get the US two weeks of vacation!)
posted by MattD at 3:28 PM on August 12, 2016
It's quite common professional-class people to have suburban houses with two cars in the garage, golf club memberships, and a lot of other suburbanite trappings, or if they live in the city to have fairly expensive houses in the country. Stay at home moms are extremely common. The amount of vacation time and holidays is unimaginably large by American standards ... but people spend a lot of money using that time.
(Also -- watch out for recruitment where you are technically hired by the US subsidiary and put on assignment in Europe, but still get paid in USD and still get the US two weeks of vacation!)
posted by MattD at 3:28 PM on August 12, 2016
Response by poster: Had my first Skype interview today with the company and it went very well! It seems very possible this could become a reality!
posted by matt_od at 3:30 PM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by matt_od at 3:30 PM on August 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also, your employer will almost certainly compensate you for your commute (either by paying for a train pass or giving you a fixed amount for fuel), you'll get 8% holiday pay in the spring, and some companies offer a "13th month" bonus at the end of the year.
House prices in Amsterdam are crazy right now, but I think you can still find decent rentals; it depends a lot on the neighborhood you're looking at. There are also good options in the suburbs and other cities (which, in some areas, means an easier commute than going from one part of the city to another). Check out Pararius to get an ideal of rental costs.
posted by neushoorn at 12:02 PM on August 11, 2016 [5 favorites]