I think I want to migrate to Montreal Canada from the US.
August 5, 2016 6:15 PM Subscribe
I've lived in NYC Metro my entire life. There's less work and more competition than ever. Time to relocate?
Montreal is the closest large city to my surviving parent. Montreal is one of the few places both my SO and I like, the only other being New Orleans but neither of us actually wants to LIVE there.
I know getting work permits and etc in Canada is tough. Only my SO would qualify for becoming a citizen if we wanted to stay (from what I've read about the requirements). It's possible we know some people who could sponsor us. There's a school there aimed at continuing education for working artists that I have considered applying to.
Snowflakes: I'm an artist and graphic designer so options are limited to places that I can find actual work. I have some remote freelance already but not enough move to the middle of nowhere with no job prospects. I have loads of work experience but very little education on paper. I'm 41 and female. We own a Siberian Forest Cat and are unwilling to give her up no matter how fantastic a place we might find (obligatory cat pic)
Also open to suggestions of US cities that have cheaper housing and better job markets than pretty much anything within 100 miles of NYC. Would be nice to stay on the East Coast, but not a deal killer. SO can conduct business from anywhere in the continental United States (or I would be pushing for Hawaii).
No, this has nothing to do with the election.
I don't have a timeline, this is all in the semi-realistic daydream stage still.
Thank you for reading through this nonsense.
Montreal is the closest large city to my surviving parent. Montreal is one of the few places both my SO and I like, the only other being New Orleans but neither of us actually wants to LIVE there.
I know getting work permits and etc in Canada is tough. Only my SO would qualify for becoming a citizen if we wanted to stay (from what I've read about the requirements). It's possible we know some people who could sponsor us. There's a school there aimed at continuing education for working artists that I have considered applying to.
Snowflakes: I'm an artist and graphic designer so options are limited to places that I can find actual work. I have some remote freelance already but not enough move to the middle of nowhere with no job prospects. I have loads of work experience but very little education on paper. I'm 41 and female. We own a Siberian Forest Cat and are unwilling to give her up no matter how fantastic a place we might find (obligatory cat pic)
Also open to suggestions of US cities that have cheaper housing and better job markets than pretty much anything within 100 miles of NYC. Would be nice to stay on the East Coast, but not a deal killer. SO can conduct business from anywhere in the continental United States (or I would be pushing for Hawaii).
No, this has nothing to do with the election.
I don't have a timeline, this is all in the semi-realistic daydream stage still.
Thank you for reading through this nonsense.
"I know getting work permits and etc in Canada is tough. "
Not just tough, also rife with total randomness that belies the 'if you tick all these boxes you'll be ok' perspective it suggests. I worked there for 9 years on legal (Engineering based) work permits (which were very expensive and time consuming to get, even with sponsorship), eventually started a business and applied for Perm Residency *before* the new points based online system came in and through no fault of my application itself (ie I was a shoe-in on all points and over qualified on every parameter) the system was ponderous and clunky and through a comedy of errors within it I ended up having to leave the country on three weeks notice because my visa coverage ran out. The short part of a long story is that my application (submitted in October) was rejected in January for being past a 'quota' that none of the immigration lawyers even knew existed.
So, there's that. I gave up working and living in Canada as a result. I really like the country and people (although Montreal, not so much for living there) but despite doing everything right and qualifying, it is no guarantee you'll get in or stay in. I'd not recommend planning on it without applying for perm res of a work permit well and truly in advance. I'm very much once bitten, twenty times shy, with the Canadian immigration system.
posted by Brockles at 6:27 PM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
Not just tough, also rife with total randomness that belies the 'if you tick all these boxes you'll be ok' perspective it suggests. I worked there for 9 years on legal (Engineering based) work permits (which were very expensive and time consuming to get, even with sponsorship), eventually started a business and applied for Perm Residency *before* the new points based online system came in and through no fault of my application itself (ie I was a shoe-in on all points and over qualified on every parameter) the system was ponderous and clunky and through a comedy of errors within it I ended up having to leave the country on three weeks notice because my visa coverage ran out. The short part of a long story is that my application (submitted in October) was rejected in January for being past a 'quota' that none of the immigration lawyers even knew existed.
So, there's that. I gave up working and living in Canada as a result. I really like the country and people (although Montreal, not so much for living there) but despite doing everything right and qualifying, it is no guarantee you'll get in or stay in. I'd not recommend planning on it without applying for perm res of a work permit well and truly in advance. I'm very much once bitten, twenty times shy, with the Canadian immigration system.
posted by Brockles at 6:27 PM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
Look around the 128 and 495 corridors in Mass, perhaps also western mass. New Bedford has serious bang for your buck when it comes to housing costs and UMASS Dartmouth is nearby. If you freelance and pick up local sidejobs maybe you could swing it.
posted by vrakatar at 6:56 PM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 6:56 PM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
To immigrate to Quebec you need also to be accepted by Quebec under its rules, and as per the Quebec's immigration site "speaking French is a necessity" (you can learn once you arrive, but be aware.) So be aware of that wrinkle.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:00 PM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by warriorqueen at 7:00 PM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Upstate NY?
posted by kestrel251 at 7:02 PM on August 5, 2016
posted by kestrel251 at 7:02 PM on August 5, 2016
No idea about job markets but we're in Ottawa (an hour and a half from Montreal) and it's very easy to get to upstate and western New York. Check out Rochester and RIT. There's a bit of a tech/design scene there I think. The winters are brutal though.
posted by betsybetsy at 7:11 PM on August 5, 2016
posted by betsybetsy at 7:11 PM on August 5, 2016
The biggest thing is if you can speak French fluently. No matter how many points your SO has, this is the biggie. Montréal is one of my most favorite places in the world, so I hope you can make it happen. If your SO has the points, getting a student visa isn't a bad plan.
posted by Ruki at 7:52 PM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Ruki at 7:52 PM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
Are you and your husband fluent in French? To achieve permanent resident status in Quebec (unlike the rest of Canada) you MUST be. (You must take written and spoken tests in French and English as part of the application process.) I have a friend who was able to get a job at a university as an American, but ever since she started the job she has been in INTENSIVE French classes. (For at least two years now.) If you don't speak the language already definitely consider how ready you are to commit to learning a new language while trying to get yourself established.
posted by MsMolly at 10:18 PM on August 5, 2016
posted by MsMolly at 10:18 PM on August 5, 2016
Yeah, have you considered Massachusetts? Cost of living is high but not NYC high, and the economy is thriving. Can't speak to what opportunities exist specifically in graphic design, but culturally and climatically there are many similarities between Mass and and NY, and you'd be close enough to your existing social network that you could visit sometimes without having to get on a plane. Lots of nice places to live, over here.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:24 AM on August 6, 2016
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:24 AM on August 6, 2016
I moved from the U.S. to Montreal a few years ago. The specifics of my immigration process were different from what yours would be, so I can't address how easy/difficult it would be for you to come here. (I can only say that, as a single data point, my experience with Canadian immigration was not quick but it was very straightforward. I can appreciate that that is not universal.)
I'm just chiming in to echo something others have touched on: French. You don't mention it in your question and there is no escaping it. I started the process with zero French. And in my case, I was able to promise that I would learn it as a condition of coming here. (Although speaking Spanish definitely helped me learn French, I don't think it was something they cared about for immigration purposes — the idea isn't exactly to fill Quebec with Spanish-speakers.)
The government paid for some French classes and in the end the sort of work I do does not require an extraordinary fluency in French. So I am not any sort of conjugation superstar.
But that's all a little beside the point: Regardless of how you're able to tick boxes on a form or satisfy immigration requirements, I think you're going to want to speak some French. Not speaking or understanding any French would be limiting professionally, socially and practically.
Good luck!
posted by veggieboy at 4:48 AM on August 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm just chiming in to echo something others have touched on: French. You don't mention it in your question and there is no escaping it. I started the process with zero French. And in my case, I was able to promise that I would learn it as a condition of coming here. (Although speaking Spanish definitely helped me learn French, I don't think it was something they cared about for immigration purposes — the idea isn't exactly to fill Quebec with Spanish-speakers.)
The government paid for some French classes and in the end the sort of work I do does not require an extraordinary fluency in French. So I am not any sort of conjugation superstar.
But that's all a little beside the point: Regardless of how you're able to tick boxes on a form or satisfy immigration requirements, I think you're going to want to speak some French. Not speaking or understanding any French would be limiting professionally, socially and practically.
Good luck!
posted by veggieboy at 4:48 AM on August 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Once you are a permanent resident of Canada you are constitutionally entitled to live and work in the province of your choice. That means if French is going to be a big barrier to your getting residency in Quebec, consider living in Ontario/Nova Scotia/New Brunswick or wherever nearby until you get your residency, and then move.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:05 AM on August 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:05 AM on August 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was born in Montreal and still live here and I am a graphic designer. I am here to tell you the trade is very undervalued in this city. This isn't just personal griping: everyone I know in the business is finding that work is scarce and when you get it you're lucky if the client doesn't expect you to work for free or nothing ("exposure"!). A lot of the jobs advertised are in the fashion business, which is brutal to graphic designers: most of us have done our time on Chabanel Street and would rather work in a call centre than go back there.
And yes, French is not optional. And no matter how many French lessons you take, you will find that the French spoken around you on the ground in Montreal bears little resemblance to what you learned – unless you get hired by a studio with a lot of expats from France, at which point suddenly you'll understand everything they say. There are a fair number of French expats here now, not all in posh jobs – the cashier at my local fruiterie is a Frenchwoman who thinks it's hilarious when she says “ça va?” and I respond “pas pire” (which nobody says in France).
And then there's the fact that this week it was 32° whereas six months ago it was –20° (Celsius, of course – we don't speak Fahrenheit). That's a big range of temperatures to adapt to. Plus, super humid in summer, mass quantities of snow and ice in winter.
Well. It’s an interesting place. And many apartments are fine with cats, and you can still find a 4½ in a decent neighbourhood under $1000. And we’ve had like six homicides all year and the crime numbers are ridiculously low. So, not all bad.
posted by zadcat at 7:59 AM on August 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
And yes, French is not optional. And no matter how many French lessons you take, you will find that the French spoken around you on the ground in Montreal bears little resemblance to what you learned – unless you get hired by a studio with a lot of expats from France, at which point suddenly you'll understand everything they say. There are a fair number of French expats here now, not all in posh jobs – the cashier at my local fruiterie is a Frenchwoman who thinks it's hilarious when she says “ça va?” and I respond “pas pire” (which nobody says in France).
And then there's the fact that this week it was 32° whereas six months ago it was –20° (Celsius, of course – we don't speak Fahrenheit). That's a big range of temperatures to adapt to. Plus, super humid in summer, mass quantities of snow and ice in winter.
Well. It’s an interesting place. And many apartments are fine with cats, and you can still find a 4½ in a decent neighbourhood under $1000. And we’ve had like six homicides all year and the crime numbers are ridiculously low. So, not all bad.
posted by zadcat at 7:59 AM on August 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh god yes move out of NYC I have never looked back. I don't know about specific cities, though I'd like to give a plug for the PNW, but it is so nice to be free of that high cost suckage. You're like "holy shit I have money for nice times!"
posted by corb at 8:08 AM on August 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:08 AM on August 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: (Update) You guys are awesome! Both of us have had *some* French. We have also discussed Rhode Island, Massachusetts (maybe not Boston) and (only if we have to) Burlington, Vermont. SO is from Central NY. I know there is no work to speak of for me there short of being a cashier at Wegmans (not a dis to Wegmans or cashiers, would prefer to live somewhere that improves my career prospects).
Thank you !!!
posted by palindromeisnotapalindrome at 8:55 AM on August 6, 2016
Thank you !!!
posted by palindromeisnotapalindrome at 8:55 AM on August 6, 2016
Have you considered Philly? I can't speak to the job market but COL is a fraction of New York, and it's close enough that you can still go visit friends in NYC/spend a weekend there and see if you like the vibe.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:55 AM on August 6, 2016
posted by Itaxpica at 10:55 AM on August 6, 2016
Southerner here (Memphis), recommending that you check out the ATL.
(Unless your reference to Canada indicates a climate preference.)
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:45 PM on August 6, 2016
(Unless your reference to Canada indicates a climate preference.)
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:45 PM on August 6, 2016
If you have any questions about RI, feel free to MeMail me. I live in the northeast corner of RI, so I can tell you about some of the bordering MA towns, too. We have the Rhode Island School of Design and if you're interested, there's a jobs mailing list that RISD posts to and basically every position requires graphic design skills.
posted by Ruki at 2:35 PM on August 9, 2016
posted by Ruki at 2:35 PM on August 9, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 6:20 PM on August 5, 2016 [4 favorites]