Is this a 4 or an 11?
June 12, 2016 9:31 AM   Subscribe

DH got an estimate for an upcoming medical procedure and the handwriting is unclear whether the amount due is $422.13 or $1,122.13.

We're obviously going to call tomorrow to verify the amount but between the two of us, we waiver back and forth on the handwriting analysis. If you are firmly in one camp (4 vs. 11) please tell us why. link.
posted by morganannie to Grab Bag (60 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
I would say 11.
posted by magnetsphere at 9:32 AM on June 12, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm getting 1122.13 because the tail on the first 1 is somewhat lighter compared to the rest of the numbers and you can tell that the person writing this has a tendency to leave a tail off their 1's (based on the second 1).
posted by gemutlichkeit at 9:33 AM on June 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


Looks like 11 to me, as it seems they're moving fast and scraping the pen as they write, like the way they did for the other 1 above in the 16.
posted by bluecore at 9:33 AM on June 12, 2016


I'd say 11 because the placement of the cross, which is too low for a 4 and looks a great deal like the rest of the 1s and the slashes.
posted by jeather at 9:35 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


You better come back after calling tomorrow and tell us if we're right!
posted by magnetsphere at 9:37 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


I will.

FWIW, I think it's a 4 for 2 reasons. First, there is no thousands comma. Second, this person's sixes are very exaggerated which makes me think their fours might be as well.
posted by morganannie at 9:40 AM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Another vote for 11. For the reasons the other have said above. Also, this looks almost exactly like my own handwriting, and my fours make a cross shape with a light loop in the top right corner when I am writing in a hurry.

(I wish it were a four, since it's a bill!)
posted by mochapickle at 9:45 AM on June 12, 2016


11. Both vertical strokes look almost identical (consistent with the writer writing two 1s) and the horizontal stroke, such as it is, is both very short and very low (inconsistent with the writer writing a 4).
posted by dfan at 9:49 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


That's an 11. I agree with the above reasons, plus if I'm reading the fragment of the small print correctly, the estimate seems to be including anesthesia, which is not an insignificant expense and is probably more than $400 on its own.
posted by pdb at 9:50 AM on June 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


I say 11 because I can't imagine any procedure involving anesthesia coming in at $400.
posted by COD at 9:51 AM on June 12, 2016 [5 favorites]


But this is only his portion to pay after insurance.
posted by morganannie at 9:52 AM on June 12, 2016


11.
posted by kbanas at 9:52 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


11.

4/5 of the ones and both slashes we see have some trace of the same tail to them.
posted by Lorin at 9:52 AM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


11. The two strokes are almost identical, equal in height and placement (if it was a 4, I'd expect them to be slightly different sizes and the left one to be slightly higher) and match the 1s in the date above. You can also see the little trailing hooks on the first 6 in the date and the slashes. The rest of the numerals are very clearly formed; I don't think that writer would produce a tidy 2 and a sloppy, ambiguous 4.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:53 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


11. And for what it's worth, I don't use a comma for four digit numbers (2500 but 25,000).
posted by Ruki at 9:53 AM on June 12, 2016 [7 favorites]


Another vote for 11, scrawled in haste, it would appear.
posted by Lynsey at 9:58 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


That looks like they did add the comma, it's just hooked onto the first 1. So, I'm seeing it as 1,1 rather than 4
posted by RainyJay at 10:08 AM on June 12, 2016


I see it as a 4, though clearly I am in the minority. The last 1 has no tail, so I think it is a squared-off, stunted 4.

Please update when you have the correct information!
posted by Dip Flash at 10:11 AM on June 12, 2016


11, sorry.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:15 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


1s. Compare to the '1' in the date.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 10:17 AM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


1122.13

They have a tendency to let the ends of their characters (including "/") drag upward.

I wanted it to be a four for you.
posted by aniola at 10:18 AM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Another vote for 11. Every one of the 1s has a tail but one. (I feel like Dr. Seuss) The slashes in the date have tails, too.
posted by blackzinfandel at 10:19 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


11, unfortunately.
posted by sperose at 10:27 AM on June 12, 2016


Definitely 11, unfortunately.
posted by anderjen at 10:28 AM on June 12, 2016


I'm leaning towards it being a 4, based on it being a bit separate from the 2s that follow, and on how they do their sixes, but I can't rule out that those are ones, due to the tendency they have to let the ends of their characters drag upward, as aniola says. Sorry not to be more definitive.
posted by gudrun at 10:28 AM on June 12, 2016


I say it's a 4. There is another numeral '1' in this sample of script, and there's no hint of some curly stroke at the bottom of it (such as would be making the false crosspiece of a '4', if they had actually been trying to write '11')
posted by thelonius at 10:35 AM on June 12, 2016


A vote for 11, since the 1s match the others on the date. Also, since it's a medical bill, you know it's always the higher number.
posted by dis_integration at 10:39 AM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


I also vote for an 11. I think if it were a 4, the closed counter space of the 4 would be a big curving loop as in the 2's, 3, and 6's, rather than having two parallel strokes with a very shallow-angled and meekly-drawn horizontal stroke at the bottom. (I Am Not A Graphologist.)
posted by ejs at 10:46 AM on June 12, 2016


I write my 4s exactly like that, so I'm going with 4 (note to self to take more care to be clear when writing prescriptions going forwards, since everyone is reading it as 11).
posted by tinkletown at 10:54 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think it's 11 also.
posted by bedhead at 10:59 AM on June 12, 2016


Another vote for 1122.13. The lack of comma isn't a big issue for people in the medical industry.
posted by Attackpanda at 11:06 AM on June 12, 2016


I read it as a 4 because it doesn't look like the other 1 numeral, which is more upright.
posted by dreamphone at 11:17 AM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Really had to struggle to see a 4 in there (it's reading as U22.13 which is like a U2 tribute band or something), it looks like 11 to me due to the conformity of the stroke weight and angle. Also, her ballpoint had a gob of lint on the end which is why there's that depigmented part just below the top of every line, aggggghh!

/Another person who rarely puts commas in numbers (but is scrupulous about crossing zeros and sevens).
posted by jamaro at 11:20 AM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


11. All of the 1s have a little upstroke. Yes, even that 1 that looks like it doesn't. Blowing the image up does indeed show an upstroke at the end of it - although barely discernible.
posted by Sassyfras at 12:04 PM on June 12, 2016


Firmly 11, because the 1 in the 16 date is written the same way. I would be going out of my way trying to determine the 11 as a 4 and even that barely passes the laugh test for me.
posted by Karaage at 12:28 PM on June 12, 2016 [3 favorites]


4 at first glance , but stopping to look at it again, the tails on all the other 1s make me think it's an 11 after all.
posted by Stacey at 1:38 PM on June 12, 2016


Definitely 11. As you say, their numbers are exaggerated so I'd imagine their 4 would have an exaggerated down stroke which would go below the the printed line.
posted by billiebee at 2:34 PM on June 12, 2016


I see a 4
posted by arnicae at 2:40 PM on June 12, 2016


11, just to be in the pool when the prizes are handed out.
posted by SLC Mom at 3:06 PM on June 12, 2016


Another vote for white and gold 11. Look at the 1 in 16.
posted by salvia at 4:13 PM on June 12, 2016


I think it is 4.
posted by jgirl at 4:33 PM on June 12, 2016


It's an 11, I'm pretty sure. The ones above have the tails, too.
posted by smirkyfodder at 4:51 PM on June 12, 2016


To me, it's an 11 without a possibility of being a 4. I have never seen a four that doesn't connect the two strokes. Even the sloppiest writers connect these...
posted by jdroth at 5:33 PM on June 12, 2016


I'm voting 4.
posted by history is a weapon at 5:59 PM on June 12, 2016


For your sake, I wanted it to be a 4. Sadly I think it's 11.
posted by Jubey at 6:08 PM on June 12, 2016


I also think it's an 11.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:13 PM on June 12, 2016


I vote for 4. The one above has no tail, and looks different.
posted by hydra77 at 8:19 PM on June 12, 2016


I think it's clearly a 4.
posted by clone boulevard at 8:45 PM on June 12, 2016


It's definitely an 11. I have several numbers and letters that I'm apt to write differently sometimes after a pause, and I think the writer of those numerals remembered the dollars but had to go back and look again at the cents.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:56 PM on June 12, 2016


11...
posted by aielen at 10:03 PM on June 12, 2016


Another vote for 11.
posted by Threeve at 10:27 PM on June 12, 2016


I think it's a 4.
posted by Enchanting Grasshopper at 6:10 AM on June 13, 2016


Definitely 11.
posted by whoiam at 6:39 AM on June 13, 2016


11. If it were a 4, the mid-level crossover within the four would be much higher than it is. As it is, it looks more of a "U" shape, and I would have personally felt an obligation to re-write for clarity if I had intended a 4 out of that. I also don't know whether a person who would write their 6 and 2 so delicately would then toss together a hardly-connected 4 like that; I'm very suspicious.
posted by a good beginning at 8:04 AM on June 13, 2016


4 at 1st glance, but I think 11 upon closer inspection.

The 1s look like the 1s in the date above, just a longer tail in the 1st 1 in 1122.13. They were probably thinking of 11 as the wrote the number.

The person writing the number was probably thinking of the number as 11-22-13. That's why the 2 1s are close together. the 2 2s are close together and the 1 and 3 are close together.
posted by glenngulia at 9:47 AM on June 13, 2016


I'd say 1122.13. Handwriting analyst for several years now.
posted by chatelaine at 10:18 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Good news, bad news.

It's an 11 not a 4.

HOWEVER, doctor's office thinks we are responsible for 80% of procedure rather than 20%. So for those of you who were commiserating over the amount, much appreciated.
posted by morganannie at 10:20 AM on June 13, 2016 [4 favorites]


Uh, that sounds like bad news and more bad news. Unless you mean you're responsible for 20% of procedure rather than 80%?
posted by languagehat at 12:44 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm taking the follow up to mean that the 11 figure represents 80% of the procedure, instead of the 20% they're actually responsible for. So that is good news!
posted by Ruki at 1:39 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh, that makes sense! Thanks for explaining it.
posted by languagehat at 4:59 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]


« Older Best new stand mixer   |   July 4th in Seattle Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.