How to listen without offering solutions?
May 7, 2016 1:38 PM   Subscribe

I'm in a relationship for the first time in a few years. When my girlfriend comes to me with problems or things that are bothering her, I'm intellectually aware that she's not looking for solutions or fixes unless she asks, she's looking for understanding and empathy. However, I'm just not practiced providing that kind of emotional support and often find myself at a loss for words. How do I do it?

I know this is often an issue in relationships, specifically between men and women. When she comes to me, I hug her and hold her, and often find myself saying "I'm really sorry that's happening" or similar. I allow her to speak about it, and ask any questions I can think of to understand the issue more. But when I've covered the basics I'm often unable to think of anything else to say, and can fall into just saying "I'm sorry" again or asking obvious questions just to ask them. Sometimes it's fine, but sometimes she ends up not feeling heard.

The situations can range from being in pain from cramps to incredibly emotionally distressing situations with her family or our life. I just end up feeling dumb and under-equipped, and that I could offer her more support and understanding if only I knew how.

She tends to be extremely emotionally intelligent and I'm much more on the intellectual side of things, so I just need some advice on what to say and how to say it.
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (35 answers total) 35 users marked this as a favorite
My oldest son often just describes the emotions he is seeing in me: "Wow, you sure sound angry about that." or "You seem so angsty today." He doesn't do it in a judgey way that suggests I shouldn't be feeling what I am feeling. He just acknowledges that I do, in fact, feel a certain way.

It is the most effective thing I have ever experienced for feeling heard and accepted.
posted by Michele in California at 1:43 PM on May 7, 2016 [28 favorites]

I personally find it comforting it when, if I'm complaining that someone is doing me wrong, my listener tells me that the antagonist in the story is terrible garbage, who should definitely not be doing what they're doing, and will live to regret it, etc. (Note: this doesn't work if the person is a loved one; in that case it's more like "I'm sorry that she's so confused, this is rough.") YMMV :)
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:44 PM on May 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

Why not ask her?

I (female) am like your GF, but I've had this problem most often with women. And actually my current (male) beau told me about a problem the other day and got slightly miffed when I started to offer advice.

You may not need to say much of anything at all beyond making sympathetic noise. Ask her (not while she is upset, of course) what has been really helpful for her in the past or what she thinks might help, see if that's something that you can do.
posted by bunderful at 1:46 PM on May 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

What fingers and toes said. If there is an antagonist causing distress, someone on my team saying things like "uh s/he sounds horrible, I'm sorry you have to work with her/him. I'll totally kick his/her ass if you want" is good. If you run out of words to use, then try doing. Give her a massage or cook her dinner or run her a bath or put on her favorite movie.
posted by greta simone at 1:47 PM on May 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

Validate validate validate. Reassure her that she is allowed to feel the way she feels. You don't have to apologize, just acknowledge that yes, this situation is hard/frustrating/upsetting/sad/crazymaking, etc. If you have to say "I'm sorry", tie it to the situation or her emotional reaction to it ("I'm sorry your boss said that to you, that must have been really upsetting" or "I'm so sorry you're in pain right now")

If she isn't feeling heard, the best way out of this is to ask her how she would ideally like you to engage with her when she's upset. If she's emotionally intelligent, she probably has specific ideas and will be able to communicate that to you in a kind way.

If you really like giving advice, find a healthy outlet for it (like, um, here. Hello, fellow problem-solver and solution finder!).
posted by ananci at 1:51 PM on May 7, 2016 [11 favorites]

in my experience it helps to find a phrase that you can say with conviction ("puchas" is what i finally went with, but ylmv). that probably sounds obvious to the point of useless, but is actually quite hard. in english, for example, saying "oh dear" emphatically just doesn't seem to work, unless you're a vicar.

also seconding asking, but not everyone is that aware.

not so keen personally on saying someone else sucks, but that does seems to be the culture here.
posted by andrewcooke at 1:58 PM on May 7, 2016 [3 favorites]

I agree with what others have said. What's been helpful for me in terms of being heard is the listener expressing solidarity--"I'm sorry" or "That sucks."

If that's what you've been doing and she still doesn't feel heard, maybe just ask, "Is there anything I can do to help?" That might open a space to offer advice but also it lets her decline if that's not what she's looking for.
posted by xenization at 2:01 PM on May 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

You're going to have to ask her what makes her feel heard. Most people, when they're venting, are pretty much fine with murmurs and echoes. If she needs some different feedback, it shouldn't be turned into a test that you have to guess the answer to. Maybe what she wants is to hear you reframe what she's saying, or stuff like "I can see that you're very angry" (I would claw the eyeballs out of someone who said that to me when I was angry, so, you know, there's no one size that fits all), or maybe she wants you to offer solutions so she can reject them, some people are soothed by that. If whatever you're doing is wrong, only she has the answer key.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:08 PM on May 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

I also am terrible at this and am working at it. Right now what seems to be working is listening, acknowledging my boyfriend's experience, validating his feelings, saying the sorry thing, and if we're still talking about it, asking if there is anything I can do to help (brainstorm, etc). He usually says just listen and understand. So I go back to the beginning and start again. It feels hollow to me, because in his shoes I'd want ideas, but he says this is what he needs and it seems to help. I take comfort in knowing that other people also struggle with not solving problems, just listening to them. It is hard.
posted by pammeke at 2:10 PM on May 7, 2016

Hmm. I don't love it when people say "I am sorry" or "that sucks" because it seems like they aren't listening. It is much better for me when someone says "Anything I can do to help?" after they acknowledge it sucks. No is usually my answer, but knowing that the person isn't just mirroring and murmuring back platitutudes means a lot to me.

So I would ask her, during a time when you're just hanging out, not when she is venting. I would say, "Dear, I know that when you have a tough time with something that you like to talk about it, and I really like being there for you. I'm wondering what kind of things are the most supportive to you. Everyone is different, and I want to give you the support that works best for you because I care about you. What things can I say or do that are most supportive?"

My boyfriend said this to me once and it has stuck with me ever since. Plus, now he gives me really excellent support when he knows I need it. Win win.
posted by sockermom at 2:17 PM on May 7, 2016 [11 favorites]

Nthing that you should tune to your actual girlfriend's wishes. (Although sometimes I want to vent, most of the time I actually am looking for solutions; definitely had to explain to more than one boyfriend that me being female doesn't mean I only want comfort).

Also yes it's a good idea to talk about this sometime when she isn't actively venting, so you can build strategies that work within this relationship. Some people want to be distracted, some want solutions, some want to wallow or complain, and pretty much everyone will want each of these at different times.
posted by nat at 2:24 PM on May 7, 2016 [3 favorites]

Something I find deeply validating is when someone offers their judgment of the situation as a whole. Even a phrase as simple as "That's terrible!!!" said in an appropriately aghast tone of voice reassures me that it's not just me, I'm not making it up, the issue at hand really is a terrible thing to deal with. Other possibilities include "Ugh, so annoying" or "Wow, what an incredibly rude thing to say," etc. (Personally, I prefer to not get into judging people's character, so I tend to stay away from "What an asshole.")

I still think lollusc's answer from an earlier thread is brilliant.
posted by danceswithlight at 2:28 PM on May 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

Another core piece beyond "I'm sorry" is to name or ask about the emotion, e.g, "it seems like you feel frustrated? It sounds like a really frustrating situation" or "oooh, I would be so mad!" Validating their feelings and actions is helpful: "I would feel the same way." "Of course, that makes complete sense because..." Asking questions to draw out details is good. Also, you can be the person's defense attorney, defending them against themselves and others.

All of these work better if you really get into the situation with them. Just saying "oh that sucks" from the sidelines, without details from the situation, doesn't exactly help and can feel like you're just waiting for them to stop talking about it. If you aren't already, try really getting into the details with them.

Her: "I had the worst day! Martha got so mad at me!"
You: "Oh, I'm sorry. That sucks. She got mad at you?"
Her: "Yeah, I just said XYZ and she said ABC all snippy and stormed off. I can't believe she got SO offended. But maybe my comment was rude...?"
You: "Your comment doesn't seem rude to me. And it doesn't sound like you meant to be rude in any way."
Her: "well, it turns out they had just broken up and she thought I was rubbing that in."
You: "Wait, she was offended because she thinks you were alluding to a recent breakup? One you didn't even know about?"
Her: "Exactly!"
You: "That seems so unfair! I'd feel misunderstood and unjustly accused."
Her: "I know! I do feel that way! But then, what do I do? She's a good friend and she's angry at me."
You: "Oh, that hurts when a good friend is mad at you."
Her: "Yeah, and I really don't know what to do!"
You: "Especially after she got mad seemingly out of the blue, I can imagine it might feel like anything you do or say could go wrong."
Her: "Yeah, and I don't even know if she'll take my call. But nothing to do but try, I guess."
posted by salvia at 2:32 PM on May 7, 2016 [9 favorites]

Here are some useful phrases:

"No wonder you are upset!"
"You must feel very [insert emotion]"
"I'm so sorry you're feeling this way."
"Your reaction is completely reasonable!"
"Anybody would have a hard time with this."
posted by pazazygeek at 2:33 PM on May 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

Oh man, I feel like one of the people I'm dating could have written this question down to the self-deprecation when we first started dating. The funny thing is that what I appreciate *most* is that they're the type to write this question; I see it as them making the effort to recognize their inability and attempt to accommodate it to some extent, whereas I imagine that they see this lack of practice as an incapacity, like you mentioned, OP, feeling "underequipped."

How our discussions have shaken out to is that they listen to me talk, then, if they feel unsure as to what forms of assistance they can render, they remind me of the discussion we had about their lack of practice and ask what would help me most. In my case, a choice of options [with one of them being non-threatening physical contact] is the most calming thing I can have when I'm upset, so the question plus the other 'basics' you described is all I really need. Your partner may feel differently, so the question is most key.

When we had miscommunications AND they remembered to ask in the future, I felt appreciative and honored that they recognize their lack of practice but choose to devote energy to tending to my emotional needs. Should instead your partner treat your efforts dismissively ... that's indicative of real problems they need to deal with on their end before they can be in a good relationship. (Trust me, I spent most of my 20s in shitty ones.)

Now a few years into our thirties, my partner seems a little more sure of things with regards to me. I appreciate that newfound confidence just as I appreciated the honesty to begin with. In our relationship, we've learned it's not so big a deal to get *friendly* constructive criticism during times when we feel relaxed, so one of us usually asks about "state of the union" every month or so when we're having fun, out to dinner or after a movie or chilling at home doing nothing much.

Finally, I recommend you Google self-compassion as extending it to ourselves can make it easier to extend it to others. If it makes you feel any differently about the concept, I've found it's far easier to get "better" at this life stuff when and if we accept where we are now with no judgments.
posted by saveyoursanity at 2:46 PM on May 7, 2016

Been there, been tongue-tied like that.

Now some of the comments contain good formulas for you to use, but of course if the Party Of The Other Part recognizes that you're using a formula, you're screwed worse than ever.

FWIW, my formula is to ask questions that incorporate or imply as many of the above formulas as I can. Is she always as incompetent as this? Is he really as lazy as that. Doesn't she see how angry it makes you? How did you manage to keep yourself from appearing him with your umbrella?
posted by SemiSalt at 2:48 PM on May 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Part of this is you and your gf working this out, not her having some idea in her head of what would work and making you guess it. So, even in the moment, you can be like "Wow that sounds super frustrating, would it be helpful to talk about it or would you just like to bitch for a few minutes and then we can go get ice cream?"

I work hard on being responsive and a good listener when it is not natural for me and I don't even really like it that much (I'm very solutions oriented and sort of closed off emotionally). So part of what makes it work for me as the listener is having a bit of a back and forth with my (long time) partner about my own boundaries. That is, I am happy to listen and be sympathetic and try to be present and understanding up to a point and then we need to talk about something else. That is, I can't be the always-there person to vent at length to because the point at which I start dreading him talking about work AGAIN is the point at which I'm not being a good partner and a good friend, but both he and I can work on this together.

So, since I see a lot of myself in your question I also want to make sure you understand that working this out is something the two of you can do. There's no "right" way to listen and no "right" way to talk about things in a relationship (there may be some wrong ways) so the two of you have to establish some patterns and dynamics that work for both of you, don't beat yourself up for not being there for her right away.
posted by jessamyn at 3:36 PM on May 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

You might want to look for resources on "active listening" to help you with some of these skills.

This article (pdf), though it's focused on work situations, might be helpful. Carl Rogers is a psychologist who wrote a lot on listening to other people and why it's so powerful.
The first reaction of most people when they consider listening as a possible method for dealing with human beings is that listening cannot be sufficient in itself. Because it is passive, they feel, listening does not communicate anything to the speaker. Actually, nothing could be farther from the truth. By consistently listening to a speaker, you are conveying the idea that: “I’m interested in you as a person, and I think that what you feel is important. I respect your thoughts, and even if I don’t agree with them, I know that they are valid for you. I feel sure that you have a contribution to make. I’m not trying to change you or evaluate you. I just want to understand you. I think you’re worth listening to, and I want you to know that I’m the kind of a person you can talk to.”
posted by lazuli at 3:45 PM on May 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

This YouTube video can show the way: It's not about the nail!
posted by cameradv at 3:48 PM on May 7, 2016

That is to say, I'm not sure you necessarily need to know what to say and how to say it, as maybe you need to reframe your understanding of the goal of listening to her. If you're anxious about saying the right thing, or you're just saying things to say things, you're likely not actually listening to what she's saying, and that may be the actual problem.
posted by lazuli at 3:49 PM on May 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Three magic words..."I hear you"
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 3:51 PM on May 7, 2016

I'm a pacifist who can't stomach violence in movies, but what works for my husband and me when venting is asking "Who do I need to punch in the face?" It's goofy and meaningless but satisfying. However, the best thing for you do to is to ask your GF what she needs to feel heard. Then do that.
posted by Ruki at 3:53 PM on May 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

similarly, crush their heads (seriously, works for us).
posted by andrewcooke at 4:19 PM on May 7, 2016

Seconding lazuli: Google "active listening!" You may even be able to find an in-person class about this, so you can practice. Active listening gives you techniques that will help you make your SO feel heard. Here are a few of those techniques:
1. Restate what she said: "So you told your coworker not to do the assignment, but then she did it anyway."
2. Repeat a few key words -- if she says, "My coworker is such a jerk, I can't stand it any longer!" (nodding, looking serious:) "You can't stand it any longer." (Most useful when the person says something surprising or more extreme than usual, that they might want to reflect on.)
3. Summarize what she said: "It sounds like there's a pattern of your coworker not listening to you."
4. Reflect her feelings back to her: "You sound really frustrated about this." You can also guess at why she may be feeling this way: "Is that because you feel there's nothing you can do about it?"
posted by chickenmagazine at 4:28 PM on May 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

If you are usually voluble and loquacious, and even more so, if like I am, unusually so, well, attentive silence is golden. Eye contact helps but if that is stressful for you, then eyes cast down and appreciative and appropriate nodding will suffice. But listen, hear and ask questions in the aforementioned active mode when and if needed.But avoid interrogation.
posted by y2karl at 5:01 PM on May 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

or asking obvious questions just to ask them

You sound great-- the above is the only part that jumped out at me as being counterproductive to your intent. When I'm fired up or bummed out and relaying the bullshit that got me there, I don't need someone dispassionately questioning me like they didn't hear me, don't believe me, or don't think I'm making narrative sense. That would not make me feel cared for or heard. And if I were in a really foul mood it would be easy for me read jerk intent into it and get even more frustrated.

So I'd say, as others have, that 1) sometimes less is more, and 2) ask her some time what you can do for her, what makes her feel heard and validated, etc. You aren't a mind reader and different people need different things in times of trouble. (And different kinds of trouble require different approaches. Like, if I'm angry I need space but if I'm sad I need closeness, but there is no way on earth I'd expect anyone to know that.)
posted by kapers at 5:29 PM on May 7, 2016

Thirding lazuli's suggestion to google: "active listening". salvia also gives a great illustration of this type of dialogue.

Active listening is about reflecting back what the person says while showing you're respectfully listening by a) repeating back what they said, b) asking questions to clarify what they said, c) saying what you think they meant, or d) guessing how they're feeling. Source: I had a great job as a parenting skills facilitator last year, where this was a core parenting skill from the program.

Example scenario:
Child: "I don't want to eat supper."
Parent: "Well if you don't want to eat supper, you'll have to wait until breakfast to eat anything because once I'm done cooking in here I don't want anyone making the kitchen dirty."
= active listening FAIL

Same scenario with active listening:
Child: "I don't want to eat supper."
Parent: "You don't want to eat supper?"
Child: "No, I don't want to eat supper."
Parent: "You don't want to eat supper -- because your tummy is already full?"
Child: "No, I don't want to eat supper because my tummy is already tired."
Parent: "Because your tummy is already tired?"
Child: "Yeah, we were jumping on the trampoline and now my tummy is tired."
Parent: "Oh I see, jumping on the trampoline made your tummy tired."
Child: "Yeah! And I don't want to eat supper while my tummy's tired. Can I rest on the couch until supper?"
Parent: "Sure, and when I'm done here, I'll come check on your tummy. How does that sound?"
Child: "Okay."
= active listening PASS

In the parenting program, it was taught that this kind of warm, focused attention from a parent to a child is crucial for the child's healthy brain development -- in particular, their attention span. As part of non-directive play, active listening stimulates a child's mind to hold its focus while playing, and develop its own (stable, healthy) inner dialogue so that eventually they do not need the parent's attention to illuminate their activities. (Note: it's probably also fair to say that most people did not get enough of this from their parents in their own childhoods.) Obviously, don't talk to adults quite like that, but that's the crux is it: stay plugged in and actively attuning to the person until they seem to have reached their own resolution. That's the "fix" part you can focus on intellectually -- knowing you have "achieved" once you can see your girlfriend has engaged in the process long enough to have found her own resolution. FWIW I also think it's okay to be able to agree when you're done actively listening, because it does require conscious effort and it is tiring. Hope this helps!
posted by human ecologist at 5:52 PM on May 7, 2016 [9 favorites]

I allow her to speak about it, and ask any questions I can think of to understand the issue more..

It seems like you currently approach questions as if they were a way to gain more information. But another way you can use questions is as a way to keep the conversation going by helping people organize their story. Especially when people are upset, sometimes their narratives get disorganized, and they may be frustrated that they aren't able to convey everything that's bothering them to you. That's why people have suggested repeating what she's said back to her - it helps her understand that you've actually received and processed the information that she's given you. But you can also take it a step further by channeling a path for her with the questions you ask, so it's easier for her to tell the story she wants to tell you.

For example, if she's describing a situation with her coworkers and she's finished telling the immediate story but stuff is still weighing on her mind, one of the things you could say is, "That sounds really rough. What are you thinking about doing when you see Coworker tomorrow?" Or if a similar situation has happened with Coworker before, you say, "I remember you telling me about this happening with Coworker a few weeks ago too. Do you think the reason you're frustrated is that this seems to be a pattern with him?"
posted by Conspire at 7:31 PM on May 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

active listening: yes
but since its someone you're emotionally close to, you need to add emotional connection too. you do this by echoing feelings not just in words but in tone and expression too. Do not match the intensity, but lightly echo her feelings

her: I'm so angry/confused/upset/sad because [thing that happened]
you: {restate thing that happened} would make me [emotions] too.

but active listening also means you don't echo every sentence, just every now and then in order to "check in" and make sure you are accurately hearing what she's saying (and feeling)
The point of active listening is to support the talker and let them know you are following their story and feeling accurately. Sometimes (near the end) its good to ask about possible things you can do to help her feel better - NOT advice about fixing the [thing that happened]
example : "would you like to [do a thing] or do you just want to [keep venting]? shall I [do a personal nicety] for you?"

Active listening is good for both the speaker and the listener. You might be surprised at how much closer you feel afterwards. It also helps you both get through the stress together, faster.
posted by Smibbo at 1:06 AM on May 8, 2016

also, offering a personal nicety (rub her back, bring her a snack, make dinner, choose what to netflix etc) is a way to put closure on the situation once the emotions have wound down a bit. Then its fairly easy for both of you to switch to something else. Don't rush it, just when it seems she's found a resolution or ready to lay it aside.
posted by Smibbo at 1:10 AM on May 8, 2016

The lollusc response danceswithlight referenced above was exactly it for me- if your GF is like me, it's a conversation I want. Because I want to relive the experience WITH the supportive person- almost as if you'd been there too, and now we can both vent about it together. The questions and responses create that "shared" experience.

The more conversation-y it is, the more that reliving can unfold and by walking back through the Shitty Thing with me, it stops being so shitty because now when I think about it, I remember it less painfully because now, in my mind, the person who loves and supports me is part of the memory too since they relived it with me.

If your SO is not a good conversationalist already, or the two of you are not communicating well or struggle in that area, then this will obviously take some doing since it requires that foundation to be in place.

But techniques and phrases and active listening and all that work, I know; but I'm just saying, for me (and people like me), those can ring false because unless the person takes the time to "re-live" via conversation, they don't really earn the right to advise me. That is the type of conversation I want, when I vent. Only after that can I accept and consider helpful strategies or concrete problem-solving options from my partner. Because only then, after "sharing the experience" with me, do I trust them to have enough skin in the game to advise me.

Please note I don't need this from everyone... just from inner circle people, or those in whom I invest my deepest self. Which is why it's a critical relationship element. if you can't figure out what makes the other person feel validated and supported in times of need, then you're in for some struggle. :-(

If you think you want to try this, but are not sure how to proceed, examine how you talk when you actually ARE reliving something (good or bad, it really doesn't matter).
"Remember how he..."
"And then I got so angry when she... "
"Wasn't it hilarious when that dude said..."
"I wanted to die when X happened in front of everyone..."

I don't know if that makes sense. And truly, until this thread, and reading that lollusc response do I really see this clearly about myself. I can look back on people and situations where I felt frustrated and unsupported and in almost every case, it's because the other person did not (or could not) engage conversationally like I needed them to. Because I need words and communication and time and investment and all that to a significant degree. Probably more than is good for me, since in my life I do find myself feeling unsupported and unvalidated a lot more than I would like, from those who I find myself involved with. Hmmm.

What a valuable lesson I learned about myself, in the effort to try to help someone else. Thanks, AskMe. You win the internet today.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 4:53 AM on May 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Say "THATS BULLSPIT" and then explain why, in your own words, it's bullspit. That way you're empathizing and also demonstrating that you're truly listening. I do this for people when they're venting. And it's fun commiserating too when you don't have anything at stake.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 7:21 AM on May 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

"She tends to be extremely emotionally intelligent and I'm much more on the intellectual side of things, so I just need some advice on what to say and how to say it."

This is my partner and me except he's male and I'm female.

You have many great responses already. The only thing I'd add is to check in with yourself about how you're responding to the emotional content of what she's saying. I tend to be uncomfortable with people expressing strong emotions (especially anger), and I find myself saying things that aim to limit that in some way.

So, for example, I'll ask a question that seems neutral enough on the surface ("What are you going to do?") but actually he's not ready for that, he's still venting, and my question is trying to accelerate the process and have him consider solutions too soon. Or sometimes I'll try to draw out more details but they're the wrong ones, focused on facts/information, when what he needs is to stay with the emotions for a while longer.

One more note: I agree that learning about active listening can be useful, but some people (including me) really hate the canned responses ("What I hear you saying is you're frustrated about XYZ," etc.). You can just do the reflection ("You're frustrated about XYZ") without the bit at the beginning and it's just as effective.
posted by Frenchy67 at 9:11 AM on May 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

"That must really feel [name an emotion appropriate to the situation]."
posted by Jacqueline at 10:31 AM on May 8, 2016

I think when I am upset, what I want is to (i) understand my feelings better; (ii) see the situation more clearly; (iii) have my emotions validated; and (iv) be reassured that everything will be okay.

She probably has more information about each situation than you do - so just be a platform for bouncing ideas off. Ask her to provide the answer "what do you think would be the right thing to do here?" or "what do you want from this situation?" And identify any blind spots in her suggestions.

Alternatively, if she is like tantrum-level upset, then just listen and bring her a DVD / blanket / hot chocolate / ice cream / beer (or equivalent) until she calms down.
posted by Crookshanks_Meow at 6:43 AM on May 9, 2016

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