Architect not providing his work, but he's a friend. What do I do?
May 4, 2016 7:38 AM Subscribe
I'm trying to do some medium-sized renovations, but my family friend architect is letting us down and stalling the work before it starts. How should we deal with him in order to get the work done in a decent amount of time, without the budget going crazy?
Due to a new baby, we're doing some decent-sized renos on our current house (around $100k canadian, which includes a new bathroom, a 2nd bathroom fixup, rearranging some walls, adding some windows and insulation in the walls, amongst other things). Our architect is a family friend who has a reputation for being thorough but slow. When we agreed to work with him, he said the final plans would be ready by mid January, out to tender in Feb, and work starting in March. It is now May, and the final plans have not arrived despite constant asking. That would make him 3.5 months late on a 6 week job. We'll ask, he'll say they're ready in a week, we'll call a week later, and then he'll say it'll be another week. This is never-ending.
That being said, the rough plans are done, and they're pretty close to the final plans. Despite the constant promises, I sincerely think the final plans will arrive shortly, and they will be good once we get them. That being said, once we get them, to what extent should we keep working with him? It would be helpful to have him work with the contractors in the tender process to keep costs down, and then check in as the project goes, but I'm getting increasingly fed up with working with him. His excuses are honest to a fault (I have higher priority work than yours, staff left so there's no one to help, I have someone new but they're junior and aren't very good), and it's clear he's not paying much attention to us.
This is further complicated by the fact that he is a family friend. He's not incredibly close, but dinner a couple times a year close. He's also very nice.
Anyway, I guess my question is a 2 parter:
1. What should I do from a renovation point of view to do this fast and cost efficiently?
2. If I should stop working with him, when's the best time to do it, and how do I stop?
If it matters, I'm in Toronto, Canada/
Due to a new baby, we're doing some decent-sized renos on our current house (around $100k canadian, which includes a new bathroom, a 2nd bathroom fixup, rearranging some walls, adding some windows and insulation in the walls, amongst other things). Our architect is a family friend who has a reputation for being thorough but slow. When we agreed to work with him, he said the final plans would be ready by mid January, out to tender in Feb, and work starting in March. It is now May, and the final plans have not arrived despite constant asking. That would make him 3.5 months late on a 6 week job. We'll ask, he'll say they're ready in a week, we'll call a week later, and then he'll say it'll be another week. This is never-ending.
That being said, the rough plans are done, and they're pretty close to the final plans. Despite the constant promises, I sincerely think the final plans will arrive shortly, and they will be good once we get them. That being said, once we get them, to what extent should we keep working with him? It would be helpful to have him work with the contractors in the tender process to keep costs down, and then check in as the project goes, but I'm getting increasingly fed up with working with him. His excuses are honest to a fault (I have higher priority work than yours, staff left so there's no one to help, I have someone new but they're junior and aren't very good), and it's clear he's not paying much attention to us.
This is further complicated by the fact that he is a family friend. He's not incredibly close, but dinner a couple times a year close. He's also very nice.
Anyway, I guess my question is a 2 parter:
1. What should I do from a renovation point of view to do this fast and cost efficiently?
2. If I should stop working with him, when's the best time to do it, and how do I stop?
If it matters, I'm in Toronto, Canada/
Did you sign a contract with him, specifying when he'd turn over plans and when the work would start? If yes, it sounds like he's chosen to break the contract. So, demand a full refund and hire another architect elsewhere.
* Just because he's a family friend doesn't mean this isn't a business arrangement. If he wants to get paid as a business, he needs to act in a business-like fashion, which means doing what he contracted to do, when he contracted to do it.
* He's got "higher priority" work than yours, "staff left so there's no one to help", he's got new untrained employees? Tough potatoes. In that case he shouldn't have committed to more work than he could handle, and none of that is your problem: it's all his.
Get your money back and walk away. This isn't how a business --- or a friendship! --- works.
posted by easily confused at 7:53 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
* Just because he's a family friend doesn't mean this isn't a business arrangement. If he wants to get paid as a business, he needs to act in a business-like fashion, which means doing what he contracted to do, when he contracted to do it.
* He's got "higher priority" work than yours, "staff left so there's no one to help", he's got new untrained employees? Tough potatoes. In that case he shouldn't have committed to more work than he could handle, and none of that is your problem: it's all his.
Get your money back and walk away. This isn't how a business --- or a friendship! --- works.
posted by easily confused at 7:53 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I'm getting a decent sized discount. Not a substantial one. At no time was I told the discount was conditional upon my flexibility with his schedule/ability to take a really long time. (sorry, won't threadsit, just trying to answer the question)
posted by evadery at 7:54 AM on May 4, 2016
posted by evadery at 7:54 AM on May 4, 2016
I think the next step is to call him and tell him you have these deadlines with the baby and all and if he cannot complete the plans by a date, you would like to work with him to transition to another architect.
posted by AugustWest at 8:01 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by AugustWest at 8:01 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think you should forget about the discount and go to another architect. Be honest with your friend, pay him for the work he’s done to date and ask for CAD files. It sounds like you want to stay friends, so tell him no hard feelings. Ask him if he can recommend someone who specializes in small residential jobs. I’m betting this will come as a relief to him, since it sounds like this job does not pay enough for him to prioritize it over larger projects. This will continue to be so during construction; construction administration is time consuming even on small jobs.
posted by Kriesa at 8:02 AM on May 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Kriesa at 8:02 AM on May 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
Do you have a contact with him? Does the work require a permit? (In the States it would) Do you need an architect to stamp/sign drawings to get the permit? (In the States you wouldn't) Have you started the permit process? Is there any reason you particularly want to have an architect work on the project instead of just hiring a builder? Have you ever met with this guy to go over plans and review design ideas that he's already come up with?
If it were me, I'd probably just pay the guy for whatever he's done so far and get his current set of drawings to take to someone else, be it another architect or a contractor. If you have a contract with a time frame included you can threaten suit for breach, but that's kind of the nuclear option. I'd guess that he'd probably rather get you out of his hair, so it won't come to that.
posted by LionIndex at 8:06 AM on May 4, 2016
If it were me, I'd probably just pay the guy for whatever he's done so far and get his current set of drawings to take to someone else, be it another architect or a contractor. If you have a contract with a time frame included you can threaten suit for breach, but that's kind of the nuclear option. I'd guess that he'd probably rather get you out of his hair, so it won't come to that.
posted by LionIndex at 8:06 AM on May 4, 2016
What does your contract say? US-based answer, but here architects and engineers must work under a contract do things like seal/sign plans and have their insurance cover any issues. Your contract may address timeline (though likely not, because timeline is dependent on when the client stops tweaking the plans.)
Call him and tell him the contractor needs to book the trades and get started. Ask when he will have the plans complete. If you are unwilling to fire him, then you need to nag him to get it done.
Also, if you want him to do construction administration, then that is a service you should expect to pay to receive. Construction administration bills out at his hourly rate and can quickly exceed the cost of the plans.
It sounds like your expectations didn't align with his regarding what services you purchased and on what schedule. Best case is to have a direct conversation if you want to preserve the relationship.
posted by 26.2 at 8:08 AM on May 4, 2016
Call him and tell him the contractor needs to book the trades and get started. Ask when he will have the plans complete. If you are unwilling to fire him, then you need to nag him to get it done.
Also, if you want him to do construction administration, then that is a service you should expect to pay to receive. Construction administration bills out at his hourly rate and can quickly exceed the cost of the plans.
It sounds like your expectations didn't align with his regarding what services you purchased and on what schedule. Best case is to have a direct conversation if you want to preserve the relationship.
posted by 26.2 at 8:08 AM on May 4, 2016
If there's a natural stopping point, I'd thank him for the work up until that point, pay him, and move forward with a contractor from there.
When you get the final, approved plans, tell him, "Nigel, thank you so much, we appreciate the work you've put into this for us. We're under a time constraint and since that's the case, we're going to hire a contractor to move this project forward."
If he's professional, he'll understand, especially if residential stuff isn't the bulk of his business. The worst mistake I ever made was hiring a friend's aunt to sell my condo. She kept telling me what a big favor she was doing for me, and how she hardly ever sold condos. She mangled an offer and I only found out on the day we were supposed to close that the deal had fallen through.
It's usually not a great idea to do business with family and friends. You have to put up with endless bullshit (like a 5 month timeframe for a few weeks of work) and they feel like you're nagging them when THEY'RE doing you the favor.
Who needs it?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:03 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
When you get the final, approved plans, tell him, "Nigel, thank you so much, we appreciate the work you've put into this for us. We're under a time constraint and since that's the case, we're going to hire a contractor to move this project forward."
If he's professional, he'll understand, especially if residential stuff isn't the bulk of his business. The worst mistake I ever made was hiring a friend's aunt to sell my condo. She kept telling me what a big favor she was doing for me, and how she hardly ever sold condos. She mangled an offer and I only found out on the day we were supposed to close that the deal had fallen through.
It's usually not a great idea to do business with family and friends. You have to put up with endless bullshit (like a 5 month timeframe for a few weeks of work) and they feel like you're nagging them when THEY'RE doing you the favor.
Who needs it?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:03 AM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you're going to pay an architect to oversee construction, and that architect isn't going to be him, I'd transition the project before the plans are finalized, lest the new architect decide the plans need changes.
posted by salvia at 9:36 AM on May 4, 2016
posted by salvia at 9:36 AM on May 4, 2016
You should have someone oversee the contractor. Was 'construction administration' or 'construction management' part of your contract, or something you discussed?
If not, provide a deadline for a permit set to be submitted to the local authority of record and have your friend complete the plans and submit by that time. Pay him and thank him for his work.
Then hire another architect or inspection consultant to perform strictly the CA/CM phase. Unless you have experience in residential construction, you'll want someone qualified to supervise and inspect the contractor's work throughout the process, not just the final sign-off from the building inspector. Use the money you saved on the plans.
(Hiring them strictly for CA/CM once the permit set is registered limits them from changing details about the plans. It also limits you as well, so ensure your needs/wants are met prior to the submission of the permit set)
posted by a halcyon day at 11:29 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
If not, provide a deadline for a permit set to be submitted to the local authority of record and have your friend complete the plans and submit by that time. Pay him and thank him for his work.
Then hire another architect or inspection consultant to perform strictly the CA/CM phase. Unless you have experience in residential construction, you'll want someone qualified to supervise and inspect the contractor's work throughout the process, not just the final sign-off from the building inspector. Use the money you saved on the plans.
(Hiring them strictly for CA/CM once the permit set is registered limits them from changing details about the plans. It also limits you as well, so ensure your needs/wants are met prior to the submission of the permit set)
posted by a halcyon day at 11:29 AM on May 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thank him for the work he's done so far but if you don't get the deliverables by next week, you'll have no choice but to go with another architect. You understand he has deadlines but you have them as well. Ask him to send you an invoice of what you owe (so he knows you mean it) and start looking for another architect. Sometimes these things don't work out. He should have been more professional and not messed you around but better that you end it now than have this behaviour continue through the entire project. Chances are, you wouldn't be friends by the end of it.
posted by Jubey at 3:23 PM on May 4, 2016
posted by Jubey at 3:23 PM on May 4, 2016
Get your money back and walk away. This isn't how a business --- or a friendship! --- works.
It's also frequently not how architecture contracts work. A lot of residential projects will have hourly contracts where you need to pay for the time worked on the project. Even for a fixed fee project, the amount billed is based on how many hours have been spent working on the project or what percentage the project has been completed to (which is also likely based on how many hours have been worked on the project). You're more paying for a service, not a product, so you can't really get your money back, and trying to do so would end your non-business relationship. Right now you're still at the point where you can say "look, this isn't really working for either of us and we'd like to move on" and not really have bad blood. Neither of you is actively trying to fuck over the other yet - he's actually been, as you note, surprisingly candid about the delays. I'd really guess that he'd like to not have to worry about your project any more. You just have to have the "Come to Jesus" talk in a calm manner and move on.
posted by LionIndex at 7:31 PM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's also frequently not how architecture contracts work. A lot of residential projects will have hourly contracts where you need to pay for the time worked on the project. Even for a fixed fee project, the amount billed is based on how many hours have been spent working on the project or what percentage the project has been completed to (which is also likely based on how many hours have been worked on the project). You're more paying for a service, not a product, so you can't really get your money back, and trying to do so would end your non-business relationship. Right now you're still at the point where you can say "look, this isn't really working for either of us and we'd like to move on" and not really have bad blood. Neither of you is actively trying to fuck over the other yet - he's actually been, as you note, surprisingly candid about the delays. I'd really guess that he'd like to not have to worry about your project any more. You just have to have the "Come to Jesus" talk in a calm manner and move on.
posted by LionIndex at 7:31 PM on May 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
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posted by matildatakesovertheworld at 7:50 AM on May 4, 2016 [3 favorites]