Can you name a reasonable price for a late wedding ring?
December 20, 2005 11:18 PM Subscribe
Can you name a reasonable price for a late wedding ring? Family Drama Inside! Come Look! -->
So after 27 years Jane has decided that she would like a very nice wedding ring, since she never got one until recently, a 3k investment from Jack. Jane and her husband Jack make a healthy salary, are near retirement age, and are in good financial shape.
Jane has decided that this holiday season will be much less cheerful, full of tears, anger, and less speaking since Jack appears to be heavily avoiding the issue, and although he did go shopping the other day with her, has indicated no interest in spending the tens of thousands dollars that Jane requests to make her happy.
Is Jane being reasonable? Is Jack? You can assume that they are financially stable (> $100k/yr salary combined with no debt outstanding or incoming) but not well-invested. How would you lovingly bring one person's viewpoint over? Assume Jane is well-entrenched in her position. At worst, how would you make peace for the holidays? You are a loving child with both of their ears and lots of patience, but no mind for this sort of thing, only interested in a peaceful three-week Christmas break.
Refer to ThePinkSuperhero as anonyProxy.
So after 27 years Jane has decided that she would like a very nice wedding ring, since she never got one until recently, a 3k investment from Jack. Jane and her husband Jack make a healthy salary, are near retirement age, and are in good financial shape.
Jane has decided that this holiday season will be much less cheerful, full of tears, anger, and less speaking since Jack appears to be heavily avoiding the issue, and although he did go shopping the other day with her, has indicated no interest in spending the tens of thousands dollars that Jane requests to make her happy.
Is Jane being reasonable? Is Jack? You can assume that they are financially stable (> $100k/yr salary combined with no debt outstanding or incoming) but not well-invested. How would you lovingly bring one person's viewpoint over? Assume Jane is well-entrenched in her position. At worst, how would you make peace for the holidays? You are a loving child with both of their ears and lots of patience, but no mind for this sort of thing, only interested in a peaceful three-week Christmas break.
Refer to ThePinkSuperhero as anonyProxy.
Wait, so she already got a $3000 ring? Sounds like she's a bit crazy. I don't see how "Jack" could possibly be in the wrong here, nobody actually needs tens of thousands of dollars in useless jewelry to make them happy.
posted by borkingchikapa at 11:38 PM on December 20, 2005
posted by borkingchikapa at 11:38 PM on December 20, 2005
Wait a minute. I didn't read the 3k part properly. She's already got one? $3k sounds more than reasonable.
posted by acoutu at 11:40 PM on December 20, 2005
posted by acoutu at 11:40 PM on December 20, 2005
I agree, Jane's being unreasonable. (But then again, my wedding ring cost $47 -- it's silver -- so my values here are probably skewed, from Jane's perspective.) I don't understand the need for yet another ring. Is it just that the $3k one is ugly or something and she wants something more to her taste?
posted by litlnemo at 11:54 PM on December 20, 2005
posted by litlnemo at 11:54 PM on December 20, 2005
As a loving child with both their ears, I'd say...stay out of it. An issue like this is usually a proxy for something else (eg, "Prove that you still love me even though I'm old" or any one of a thousand different possibilities). But its a husband-wife thing, maybe even a power struggle, best resolved--or not--by them alone.
posted by mono blanco at 12:02 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by mono blanco at 12:02 AM on December 21, 2005
I take it from the question that Jane is employed, right? So will Jane be dropping a similar "tens of thousands of dollars" on an unneeded token gift for Jack? Perhaps someone could hand this person a copy of Gift of the Magi from the local library.
Man, think of the good they could do or the trip they could take together for ten grand!
Also, it doesn't sound like she'll care, but there's "Ten Reasons Why You Should Never Accept a Diamond Ring from Anyone, Under Any Circumstances, Even If They Really Want to Give You One" by Liz Stanton, CPE Staff Economist (via darrenbarefoot)
posted by blueberry at 12:16 AM on December 21, 2005
Man, think of the good they could do or the trip they could take together for ten grand!
Also, it doesn't sound like she'll care, but there's "Ten Reasons Why You Should Never Accept a Diamond Ring from Anyone, Under Any Circumstances, Even If They Really Want to Give You One" by Liz Stanton, CPE Staff Economist (via darrenbarefoot)
posted by blueberry at 12:16 AM on December 21, 2005
...the trip they could take together for ten grand! Yeah, maybe to say, Sierra Leone, to like a diamond mine or something cool like that.
posted by well_balanced at 12:35 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by well_balanced at 12:35 AM on December 21, 2005
Is Jane being reasonable?
Oh, hell no. It's a fucking shiny rock. Yet she's attempting to make the argument that their relationship is "worth" a specific dollar value. This is the height of lunacy.
Is Jack?
In avoiding discussing a silly issue? Maybe a little, since, you know, he's supposed to love this person and is supposed to at least attempt to deal with them on an adult level.
But. It's. A. Shiny. Rock.
At worst, how would you make peace for the holidays?
Ignore it. As Steve Jobs says, you'll all be dead soon. This isn't worth your time.
posted by frogan at 12:38 AM on December 21, 2005
Oh, hell no. It's a fucking shiny rock. Yet she's attempting to make the argument that their relationship is "worth" a specific dollar value. This is the height of lunacy.
Is Jack?
In avoiding discussing a silly issue? Maybe a little, since, you know, he's supposed to love this person and is supposed to at least attempt to deal with them on an adult level.
But. It's. A. Shiny. Rock.
At worst, how would you make peace for the holidays?
Ignore it. As Steve Jobs says, you'll all be dead soon. This isn't worth your time.
posted by frogan at 12:38 AM on December 21, 2005
If you're the kid then stay out of it, even if your opinion is asked for. And I think Jane is/has been wanting more than a ring from Jack. There's some reason she feels so strongly the need for this symbol of affection - something else going on here.
posted by LadyBonita at 1:10 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by LadyBonita at 1:10 AM on December 21, 2005
Agree with everyone here. Stay out of it. However, if I were Jack, my opinion of it would be "You want the rock? No problem. I'm buying a Ferarri for myself, though. What do you mean I don't need it? Don't you want me to be happy?"
Since you mention being near retirement age, is there any chance that there are menopause-related hormonal inrrationalities involved here?
Was she not happy with the 3k ring that he bought her? If so, why didn't she say so at the time? I'd be pretty pissed if I bought someone a 3000 dollar ring, only to have them tell me it wasn't good enough a year down the road.
posted by antifuse at 3:00 AM on December 21, 2005
Since you mention being near retirement age, is there any chance that there are menopause-related hormonal inrrationalities involved here?
Was she not happy with the 3k ring that he bought her? If so, why didn't she say so at the time? I'd be pretty pissed if I bought someone a 3000 dollar ring, only to have them tell me it wasn't good enough a year down the road.
posted by antifuse at 3:00 AM on December 21, 2005
Standard operating procedure for the well-heeled with mid life crises. She gets a big rock. He gets a fast car. Everybody is happy. Also he gets the better deal since the rock is 10K and porsche is 70, depreciating at the speed of sound.
posted by bukvich at 4:34 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by bukvich at 4:34 AM on December 21, 2005
you're asking the wrong people - it's another generation here. also, it sounds like there's some subtext here. has jack done something he shouldn't have?
posted by andrew cooke at 4:35 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by andrew cooke at 4:35 AM on December 21, 2005
That's kinda true, isn't AC? I've been hearing somewhat panicked reports from Tiffany's and the like that us 20 - 30 somethings aren't spending anything on jewelry...
posted by ph00dz at 5:07 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by ph00dz at 5:07 AM on December 21, 2005
Yeah, I think that the ring thing is not really about the ring thing. Best to stay out of it, but Jack needs to spend some time figuring out why this is so important.
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:14 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:14 AM on December 21, 2005
Is Jane being reasonable? Not really. Jewelry and things are a terribly silly subject to argue about. A rubber band is supposed to do, if that's what he provides.
Is Jack? Not really. Jewelry and things are a terribly silly subject to argue about. A ring that costs tens of thousands is unneccessary, but if he wanted to get away cheap, he should've bought one while he was poor. Now, it seems that Jane has a whole bunch of silly pent-up dreams, and something has to give.
At worst, how would you make peace for the holidays? If Jane has no history of wanting to spend money stupidly, I'd indulge her this once. Everybody's allowed to have a few inexplicable and unjustifiable desires.
posted by I Love Tacos at 5:41 AM on December 21, 2005
Is Jack? Not really. Jewelry and things are a terribly silly subject to argue about. A ring that costs tens of thousands is unneccessary, but if he wanted to get away cheap, he should've bought one while he was poor. Now, it seems that Jane has a whole bunch of silly pent-up dreams, and something has to give.
At worst, how would you make peace for the holidays? If Jane has no history of wanting to spend money stupidly, I'd indulge her this once. Everybody's allowed to have a few inexplicable and unjustifiable desires.
posted by I Love Tacos at 5:41 AM on December 21, 2005
Not all of us are "20-30 somethings" but I agree, it's best that you stay out of it. Trust me, the issue isn't jewelry. By the way, as part of the older Mefi demographic here, wife and I covet neither expensive jewelry or a Ferrari. Okay, maybe a mint, mid-60s Shelby GT350 Mustang, but not a Ferrari. No sir.
posted by SteveInMaine at 5:55 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by SteveInMaine at 5:55 AM on December 21, 2005
Anonymous wrote:
Perhaps Jack's silence and Jane's demands are just different reactions to the prospect of living off social security? I suspect many couple their age are in a similar position.
On the other hand, "not well-invested" might simply mean "not plutocrats".
posted by ryanrs at 5:57 AM on December 21, 2005
- healthy salary...financially stable...in good financial shape
- near retirement age...not well-invested
Perhaps Jack's silence and Jane's demands are just different reactions to the prospect of living off social security? I suspect many couple their age are in a similar position.
On the other hand, "not well-invested" might simply mean "not plutocrats".
posted by ryanrs at 5:57 AM on December 21, 2005
Personally, I'm not a diamonds girl. But really, telling her diamonds are dumb is not a very helpful answer. Surely we all know women that place a lot of importance on their diamond wedding ring? Perhaps above all other pieces of jewelry?
For their level of income, 3k is not a lot of money for a wedding ring, by traditional standards. You said she got this ring just recently. Is the problem that she's gone all this time w/out a ring, and now that they're financially doing pretty well, she feels he cheaped out on her? Was the 3k ring a surprise? Not sure how they got themselves into this expectations-mess. She's being silly, but that doesn't make your holidays any easier.
Take the high road. Remind Jane that the important thing is that Jack loves her and they've been together 27 years and have a nice life, and that Jack isn't trying to hurt her feelings. I think the big rock/Ferrarri plan is just fine. But if they won't go for it, perhaps Jane could be convinced to pick an anniversary band that would seem suitably splashy to her.
posted by desuetude at 6:27 AM on December 21, 2005
For their level of income, 3k is not a lot of money for a wedding ring, by traditional standards. You said she got this ring just recently. Is the problem that she's gone all this time w/out a ring, and now that they're financially doing pretty well, she feels he cheaped out on her? Was the 3k ring a surprise? Not sure how they got themselves into this expectations-mess. She's being silly, but that doesn't make your holidays any easier.
Take the high road. Remind Jane that the important thing is that Jack loves her and they've been together 27 years and have a nice life, and that Jack isn't trying to hurt her feelings. I think the big rock/Ferrarri plan is just fine. But if they won't go for it, perhaps Jane could be convinced to pick an anniversary band that would seem suitably splashy to her.
posted by desuetude at 6:27 AM on December 21, 2005
OT:
I took a look at the Gemesis site. It looks like they're producing high quality yellow, pink, and blue diamonds. Lame. Super-rare fancy colored diamonds are irrelevant to DeBeers. The cartel's income and marketing are based on white diamonds. But I suppose I can't blame Gemesis for avoiding a diamond war.
Wait, I've got it! The man destined to crack the DeBeers cartel is...George W. Bush! He's wealthy, well connected, and pathologically stubborn. C'mon George, you gonna lie down let some London jewelers club beat you in the carbon game?
Ahem. Sorry for the derail. I should go to sleep.
posted by ryanrs at 6:49 AM on December 21, 2005
I took a look at the Gemesis site. It looks like they're producing high quality yellow, pink, and blue diamonds. Lame. Super-rare fancy colored diamonds are irrelevant to DeBeers. The cartel's income and marketing are based on white diamonds. But I suppose I can't blame Gemesis for avoiding a diamond war.
Wait, I've got it! The man destined to crack the DeBeers cartel is...George W. Bush! He's wealthy, well connected, and pathologically stubborn. C'mon George, you gonna lie down let some London jewelers club beat you in the carbon game?
Ahem. Sorry for the derail. I should go to sleep.
posted by ryanrs at 6:49 AM on December 21, 2005
My suspicion is that, as others have suggested, this is not really about a ring. And since it's not really about a ring, Jane isn't going to be made happy by a big fat diamond, no matter how much it costs and no matter how entrenched she is. She'll slip it onto her finger, and those same inchoate feelings of anxiety/lonliness/insecurity will still be there. Perhaps the big shiny rock will distract her for a little while, but it won't cure her ills.
See if you can engage each of them, seperately, in a non-confrontational discussion about the emotions in play. (Ideally, this would be done by a family counselor, but it may be hard to convince them to talk to a professional.) Ask her things like, "Why do you want this ring? How will it make you feel? How will it make you happy?" Don't try and convince her that the ring isn't the Magic Cure-All she expects, just try to help her understand what she's really wanting (security, affection, emotional intimacy, etc) and maybe she can begin to see that a diamond ring is a poor (yet expensive!) substitute.
Ask Jack the same sorts of things: "How does ignoring her request hurt your relationship with Jane? How would you feel if she dismissed a strong desire of yours?"
I think Jack and Jane have just dug themselves into an emotional hole. Jane wants diamond ring=emotional intimacy; Jack sees diamond ring=huge waste of money, and when he ignores her desire for a ring, Jane feels he's ignoring her desire for emotional intimacy. There ought to be a way to get Jack and Jane on the same page, and satisfy Jane's emotional needs without spending >$10k on a shiny rock.
posted by junkbox at 6:50 AM on December 21, 2005
See if you can engage each of them, seperately, in a non-confrontational discussion about the emotions in play. (Ideally, this would be done by a family counselor, but it may be hard to convince them to talk to a professional.) Ask her things like, "Why do you want this ring? How will it make you feel? How will it make you happy?" Don't try and convince her that the ring isn't the Magic Cure-All she expects, just try to help her understand what she's really wanting (security, affection, emotional intimacy, etc) and maybe she can begin to see that a diamond ring is a poor (yet expensive!) substitute.
Ask Jack the same sorts of things: "How does ignoring her request hurt your relationship with Jane? How would you feel if she dismissed a strong desire of yours?"
I think Jack and Jane have just dug themselves into an emotional hole. Jane wants diamond ring=emotional intimacy; Jack sees diamond ring=huge waste of money, and when he ignores her desire for a ring, Jane feels he's ignoring her desire for emotional intimacy. There ought to be a way to get Jack and Jane on the same page, and satisfy Jane's emotional needs without spending >$10k on a shiny rock.
posted by junkbox at 6:50 AM on December 21, 2005
Talk to Jack and suggest a cheaper and more meaningful alternative. For that much cash they could take a pretty good vacation. When Christmas comes just say: "Honey, I know you had your heart set on a dimanond ring but I decided to give you (this other gift) to show you blah blah."
Seriously, when it comes to women who want expensive things, your best bet is to meet them half way. I doubt Jane really wants the ring, especially since she already has one. What she needs is a grand gesture or some sort of proof that the relationship still has some feeling in it.
As somebody once told me, Christmas for a lot of people is just socially-enforced extortion. But at least you get to drink a lot of egg nog.
posted by nixerman at 6:51 AM on December 21, 2005
Seriously, when it comes to women who want expensive things, your best bet is to meet them half way. I doubt Jane really wants the ring, especially since she already has one. What she needs is a grand gesture or some sort of proof that the relationship still has some feeling in it.
As somebody once told me, Christmas for a lot of people is just socially-enforced extortion. But at least you get to drink a lot of egg nog.
posted by nixerman at 6:51 AM on December 21, 2005
My Dad's long-term girlfriend brough the pleasant Christmas holidays to a screeching halt when she offhandedly remarked that she had had a dream the night before where he gave her some sort of a big ring "Isn't that odd...?" she said, completely disingenuously.
It was painfully clear that the status of their relationship was something they had been disagreeing about for a while and she decided to drop a bomb by making a big ugly statement in front of the entire family -- a family, I might add, who are pretty tense over the holidays at the best of times.
If this is going on with your family, I would talk to both people privately and say that you respect their feelings, you won't side with either one, and that you think they could both be being a little bit more reaonsable about the whole thing, especially since their drama shouldn't slop over into everyone else's holiday. In my family we call this emotional terrorism (and my Dad and his g'friend had a non-amicable breakup not too long after this incident). Sympathize but don't side with either one and tell them you expect them to act like adults, both of them. Reinforce this if the message seems to not be getting across.
Jack and Jane should compromise in some way like perhaps a nice romantic vacation, a renewal of vows (expensive, but not 10K expensive) in front of friends and family, an heirloom ring with high sentimental but reasonable actual value. Jack and Jane should not drag family into their dispute, period.
posted by jessamyn at 7:24 AM on December 21, 2005
It was painfully clear that the status of their relationship was something they had been disagreeing about for a while and she decided to drop a bomb by making a big ugly statement in front of the entire family -- a family, I might add, who are pretty tense over the holidays at the best of times.
If this is going on with your family, I would talk to both people privately and say that you respect their feelings, you won't side with either one, and that you think they could both be being a little bit more reaonsable about the whole thing, especially since their drama shouldn't slop over into everyone else's holiday. In my family we call this emotional terrorism (and my Dad and his g'friend had a non-amicable breakup not too long after this incident). Sympathize but don't side with either one and tell them you expect them to act like adults, both of them. Reinforce this if the message seems to not be getting across.
Jack and Jane should compromise in some way like perhaps a nice romantic vacation, a renewal of vows (expensive, but not 10K expensive) in front of friends and family, an heirloom ring with high sentimental but reasonable actual value. Jack and Jane should not drag family into their dispute, period.
posted by jessamyn at 7:24 AM on December 21, 2005
Diamonique (from QVC) is pretty nice, imho. People are fooled all the time by my eternity band and my 100-facet 3-stone ring.
posted by cass at 7:34 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by cass at 7:34 AM on December 21, 2005
- A gift that you blackmail someone into getting for you is not exactly a gift.
- Blackmail, emotional or otherwise, is not nice.
- Jane is a grownup and if she needs a very expensive item, she should buy it for herself, just as Jack sgould do if he decides he needs one of those cute BMWs for his midlife crisis.
- Putting $$ into jewelry before funding retirement??? Oh well, people make all sorts of choices.
Your choices are all bad. Whatever you do is likely to make it worse for you. So do nothing, and if it gets uglier, stay away.
posted by theora55 at 7:46 AM on December 21, 2005
- Blackmail, emotional or otherwise, is not nice.
- Jane is a grownup and if she needs a very expensive item, she should buy it for herself, just as Jack sgould do if he decides he needs one of those cute BMWs for his midlife crisis.
- Putting $$ into jewelry before funding retirement??? Oh well, people make all sorts of choices.
Your choices are all bad. Whatever you do is likely to make it worse for you. So do nothing, and if it gets uglier, stay away.
posted by theora55 at 7:46 AM on December 21, 2005
If they are "not well invested" and she wants a ring worth "tens of thousands of dollars" then I would guess that she's looking for some financial security, i.e. something she can carry around in her pocket in case Jack kicks the bucket or she wants to take a hike to some place far away from him. It may be that neither of those outcomes is likely, but it does sound like she wants some security that she can call her very own.
Tens of thousands of dollars is a lot for a ring, especially when you consider that wedding bands don't usually have any stones. In fact, without stones I don't know how you'd get to that price without getting something that is basically a collectible work of art by someone famous within the field.
posted by alms at 8:20 AM on December 21, 2005
Tens of thousands of dollars is a lot for a ring, especially when you consider that wedding bands don't usually have any stones. In fact, without stones I don't know how you'd get to that price without getting something that is basically a collectible work of art by someone famous within the field.
posted by alms at 8:20 AM on December 21, 2005
Yea, Anonymous, are you sure she actually wants a ring worth tens of thousands of dollars? Even engagement rings at Tiffanys can be cheaper than that.
(And yea, I'm the AnonyProxy, so when Anonymous answers this, I'll post the answer).
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:35 AM on December 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
(And yea, I'm the AnonyProxy, so when Anonymous answers this, I'll post the answer).
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:35 AM on December 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
Jane is a grownup and if she needs a very expensive item, she should buy it for herself...
Clearly she doesn't want to have to buy it for herself. An engagement ring is just a big, expensive ring unless it comes with all the symbolism of love and marriage.
Tens of thousands of dollars is a lot for a ring, especially when you consider that wedding bands don't usually have any stones. Several of my friends have recently been engaged and have rings reputedly in the $10-$15,000 range. They're mostly all young lawyers. I don't think that range is so extreme, particularly if her friends also have rings in that range. In a certain social setting a $3,000 diamond ring would seem a bit tiny.
I think she's being a bit silly and it sounds like she's displacing other feelings, but I don't think she's being totally outlandish. I say, assuming this kind of extravagant spending and that they have the money in the bank to spend on the ring, just pacify her and give her the ring.
posted by Amizu at 9:21 AM on December 21, 2005
Clearly she doesn't want to have to buy it for herself. An engagement ring is just a big, expensive ring unless it comes with all the symbolism of love and marriage.
Tens of thousands of dollars is a lot for a ring, especially when you consider that wedding bands don't usually have any stones. Several of my friends have recently been engaged and have rings reputedly in the $10-$15,000 range. They're mostly all young lawyers. I don't think that range is so extreme, particularly if her friends also have rings in that range. In a certain social setting a $3,000 diamond ring would seem a bit tiny.
I think she's being a bit silly and it sounds like she's displacing other feelings, but I don't think she's being totally outlandish. I say, assuming this kind of extravagant spending and that they have the money in the bank to spend on the ring, just pacify her and give her the ring.
posted by Amizu at 9:21 AM on December 21, 2005
I'm betting she's going on the ol' three-months-salary idea. If he makes 60k, for example, that would put his 3-months-take-home at about 10k.
A decent-sized, good-quality diamond ring can easily be 10k for something "considered nice quality" and a "worthwhile investment." According to "experts."
I'm not defending this position, just saying that how much her ring "should" cost is clearly bound up in a whole mess of expectations, and that 10k is not out of the stratosphere within the world of fine jewelry.
posted by desuetude at 9:34 AM on December 21, 2005
A decent-sized, good-quality diamond ring can easily be 10k for something "considered nice quality" and a "worthwhile investment." According to "experts."
I'm not defending this position, just saying that how much her ring "should" cost is clearly bound up in a whole mess of expectations, and that 10k is not out of the stratosphere within the world of fine jewelry.
posted by desuetude at 9:34 AM on December 21, 2005
Anonymous asked about wedding bands. Wedding bands don't generally have stones. If she wants a wedding band that is worth tens of thousands of dollars and that actually looks like a wedding bend, I don't where she'll get it.
On the other hand, if she wants a big-ass diamond ring that looks like an engagement ring then, sure, the sky's the limit. Maybe Anonymous was speaking loosely and this is really what she wants. In that case, I'm with desuetude that the 3-month tradition could be what's driving it. (Not that I support that tradition...)
posted by alms at 10:30 AM on December 21, 2005
On the other hand, if she wants a big-ass diamond ring that looks like an engagement ring then, sure, the sky's the limit. Maybe Anonymous was speaking loosely and this is really what she wants. In that case, I'm with desuetude that the 3-month tradition could be what's driving it. (Not that I support that tradition...)
posted by alms at 10:30 AM on December 21, 2005
My mother "traded up" her engagement ring for an anniversary -- either 25th or 30th. She had a small (under 1 carat, I think) ring originally, and ended up with a huge-ish (but tasteful) new one at that anniversary.
Jewelry was *very* important to her., and she knew a lot about it. A fake diamond, or a less-spectacular stone or setting, would have been insulting. And it had nothing to do with insecurity. She collected nice jewelry the way that others might collect nice art. If someone seriously wanted a Picasso, could you really just substitute a framed poster? Not the same thing.
That said, this was a plan my father agreed to and endorsed; he loved buying her jewelry. And they both knew about it for years ahead of time, and saved money accordingly.
In any event -- can Jane maybe make this a "three years down the line" gift request? Or if she wants different stones on the ring, ask for one of the side stones now, and just start collecting all the bits she wants over the next few years, so that they can get them all set together for the 30th anniversary? There might be some sort of compromise with that.
posted by occhiblu at 10:32 AM on December 21, 2005
Jewelry was *very* important to her., and she knew a lot about it. A fake diamond, or a less-spectacular stone or setting, would have been insulting. And it had nothing to do with insecurity. She collected nice jewelry the way that others might collect nice art. If someone seriously wanted a Picasso, could you really just substitute a framed poster? Not the same thing.
That said, this was a plan my father agreed to and endorsed; he loved buying her jewelry. And they both knew about it for years ahead of time, and saved money accordingly.
In any event -- can Jane maybe make this a "three years down the line" gift request? Or if she wants different stones on the ring, ask for one of the side stones now, and just start collecting all the bits she wants over the next few years, so that they can get them all set together for the 30th anniversary? There might be some sort of compromise with that.
posted by occhiblu at 10:32 AM on December 21, 2005
Are diamonds really considered a good investment? Every time the "buy a ring" questions come up, people point out that used "antique" diamonds go for a fraction of the new stones. They seem to depreciate faster than consumer electronics.
posted by bonehead at 10:56 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by bonehead at 10:56 AM on December 21, 2005
bonehead
diamonds are about as good an investment as a ferrari, that's why the whole ad campaign is "A diamond is forever" to convince all the young girls that they need a "new" thousand year old shiny rock. Once a diamond leaves tiffany's it drops a few thousand. It really is one of the most amazing ad campaigns I've ever heard of.
disclaimer: I have some issues with diamonds due to the human price of extracting them, the fact that they can easily be made in super high quality in the lab, and an ex who equated two carats with love
posted by slapshot57 at 11:24 AM on December 21, 2005
diamonds are about as good an investment as a ferrari, that's why the whole ad campaign is "A diamond is forever" to convince all the young girls that they need a "new" thousand year old shiny rock. Once a diamond leaves tiffany's it drops a few thousand. It really is one of the most amazing ad campaigns I've ever heard of.
disclaimer: I have some issues with diamonds due to the human price of extracting them, the fact that they can easily be made in super high quality in the lab, and an ex who equated two carats with love
posted by slapshot57 at 11:24 AM on December 21, 2005
To answer the question itself, I think the issue is something other than a desire for material possessions, unless Jane is a material person and has lots of friends with very expensive rings.
To add to what many other people have said, an engagement ring (even an expensive one) does NOT have to have diamonds. I dislike diamonds for a lot of reasons that people have already mentioned (though the Canadian diamonds are a reasonable alternative.) My wife thought a diamond is boring, so I got her a (unique, custom-designed) ring with a beautiful non-treated blue sapphire. I can tell you firsthand that you can spend a lot on stones other than diamonds. I didn't spend THAT much, but more expensive alternatives abound. Many of these other stones are actually fairly rare and have some real/resale value.
posted by JMOZ at 11:58 AM on December 21, 2005
To add to what many other people have said, an engagement ring (even an expensive one) does NOT have to have diamonds. I dislike diamonds for a lot of reasons that people have already mentioned (though the Canadian diamonds are a reasonable alternative.) My wife thought a diamond is boring, so I got her a (unique, custom-designed) ring with a beautiful non-treated blue sapphire. I can tell you firsthand that you can spend a lot on stones other than diamonds. I didn't spend THAT much, but more expensive alternatives abound. Many of these other stones are actually fairly rare and have some real/resale value.
posted by JMOZ at 11:58 AM on December 21, 2005
diamonds are about as good an investment as a ferrari, except the whole diamond industry is the greatest marketing campaign coupled with an aggressive monopoly on the world's diamond mines. Among other things when it became easier to mine small Russian diamonds deBeers managed to make large diamonds a tacky affair and promoted the use of jewelry with a large amount of small diamonds. Ferrari's generally hold their value and are considered collector items. If deBeers wanted to upset the diamond industry (as it has done in the past) making it unprofitable for indepedent mines to sell diamonds, by releasing their large reserves, they can -- not the same with Ferrari.
Of course that's merely an aside. The issue is a woman wants a ring that most likely is a status symbol amongst her peers. It sounds as if they can easily afford it (six-digit salary with no debts?), he's being stingy. It's not that unusual a request among the well-healed, even if Metafilter is not the typical crowd to make such a request.
posted by geoff. at 1:54 PM on December 21, 2005
Of course that's merely an aside. The issue is a woman wants a ring that most likely is a status symbol amongst her peers. It sounds as if they can easily afford it (six-digit salary with no debts?), he's being stingy. It's not that unusual a request among the well-healed, even if Metafilter is not the typical crowd to make such a request.
posted by geoff. at 1:54 PM on December 21, 2005
As usual, jessamyn has really nailed it.
In addition - it doesn't matter who is or isn't being reasonable. Stay out of it. Don't let either one of them put you in the middle of this marital tiff. If necessary, tell him and/or her to back off, act like adults and leave the subject alone until after you're gone (assuming you don't live at home).
posted by deborah at 8:13 PM on December 21, 2005
In addition - it doesn't matter who is or isn't being reasonable. Stay out of it. Don't let either one of them put you in the middle of this marital tiff. If necessary, tell him and/or her to back off, act like adults and leave the subject alone until after you're gone (assuming you don't live at home).
posted by deborah at 8:13 PM on December 21, 2005
Though it's thousands of miles awayWord to your mother.
Sierra Leone connect to what we go through today
Over here, its a drug trade, we die from drugs
Over there, they die from what we buy from drugs
The diamonds, the chains, the bracelets, the charmses
I thought my Jesus Piece was so harmless
'til I seen a picture of a shorty armless
And here's the conflict
It's in a black person's soul to rock that gold
Spend ya whole life tryna get that ice
On a polar rugby it look so nice
How could somethin' so wrong make me feel so right, right?
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:46 PM on December 21, 2005
This is anonymous. I forgot that when I got home I wouldn't have Internet.
People made a few assumptions upthread I need to correct (sorry I wasn't around earlier to deal with them). No, she doesn't want an expensive ring, she wants an expensive diamond ring. She is pretty materialistic, though she also likes to travel. When talking about the ring she has made quite a few comparisons to other women her age who have big stones, so I think this is one of the large drivers for her, though there may be some other issues.
And also, she's been the bread-winner in the family for almost the entire marriage. Though both of them are really hard working. Thanks to everyone for the advice, odds are she's going to end up getting the ring but perhaps we can turn one or two of these suggestions into action.
posted by onalark at 7:00 PM on December 22, 2005
People made a few assumptions upthread I need to correct (sorry I wasn't around earlier to deal with them). No, she doesn't want an expensive ring, she wants an expensive diamond ring. She is pretty materialistic, though she also likes to travel. When talking about the ring she has made quite a few comparisons to other women her age who have big stones, so I think this is one of the large drivers for her, though there may be some other issues.
And also, she's been the bread-winner in the family for almost the entire marriage. Though both of them are really hard working. Thanks to everyone for the advice, odds are she's going to end up getting the ring but perhaps we can turn one or two of these suggestions into action.
posted by onalark at 7:00 PM on December 22, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by well_balanced at 11:32 PM on December 20, 2005