Help me explore the Batman-and Superman-related DC universe.
March 27, 2016 10:34 AM Subscribe
What should I watch to learn about the Batman- and Superman-related DC universe, and in what order should I watch it?
After watching Batman v. Superman this weekend and being clueless about the "dream" sequences, I'd like to learn more about the Batman- and Superman-related DC universe. I'm interested in doing so by watching animated series/movies. This method is intimidating because there so is so much out there. (For example, I see Batman Beyond, Batman the Animated Series, Batman Animated movies, Superman the Animated Series, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, etc.) Could I get assistance in figuring out where I need to start and how I should proceed?
After watching Batman v. Superman this weekend and being clueless about the "dream" sequences, I'd like to learn more about the Batman- and Superman-related DC universe. I'm interested in doing so by watching animated series/movies. This method is intimidating because there so is so much out there. (For example, I see Batman Beyond, Batman the Animated Series, Batman Animated movies, Superman the Animated Series, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, etc.) Could I get assistance in figuring out where I need to start and how I should proceed?
BTAS is the only Batman worth a damn, in this Batfan's opinion. Most media (especially recently) treat him as a grimdark asshole and forget that at his best, Bruce/Batman is a deeply compassionate man who genuinely wants to help people, not just beat up costumed villains.
I also love the Justice League animated series by the same folks. It takes a while for them to get Superman right, but the general dynamic is excellent.
Avoid anything by Frank Miller, who is directly responsible for a large part of the 'asshole in a cape' trend we're seeing in DC today.
posted by Tamanna at 10:57 AM on March 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I also love the Justice League animated series by the same folks. It takes a while for them to get Superman right, but the general dynamic is excellent.
Avoid anything by Frank Miller, who is directly responsible for a large part of the 'asshole in a cape' trend we're seeing in DC today.
posted by Tamanna at 10:57 AM on March 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Tamanna is not kidding. The Miller stuff is the wellspring from which all of the grimdark superhero awfulness springs. It will serve well as background for BvS since they draw on that vibe, so that is why I mentioned them.
But... they may also make you feel sick and sad.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:04 AM on March 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
But... they may also make you feel sick and sad.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:04 AM on March 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'd definitely nth Batman: The Animated Series. It's my definitive Batman. I'm not so down on the grimdark as others (though I think BvS looks awful and based on the reviews and spoilers sounds worse), so I'll also recommend some other classic Batman stories: Year One, the Long Halloween, and the Killing Joke.
I'm less familiar with the Superman canon, but I'll second All-Star Superman. There's also the classic Alan Moore story, For the Man Who Has Everything.
posted by synecdoche at 11:43 AM on March 27, 2016
I'm less familiar with the Superman canon, but I'll second All-Star Superman. There's also the classic Alan Moore story, For the Man Who Has Everything.
posted by synecdoche at 11:43 AM on March 27, 2016
Response by poster: I'd like to clarify that I am not interested in reading comics right now. I am only interested in the animated options.
posted by Four-Eyed Girl at 12:36 PM on March 27, 2016
posted by Four-Eyed Girl at 12:36 PM on March 27, 2016
I haven't seen Batman v Superman and don't intend to, so I read a spoiler-filled synopsis of what the dream sequences are about.
Season 2 (2003-2004) of the Justice League animated series briefly covers relevant characters and potentialities we've seen in the DC universe before, but it seems to me the film is likely pointing to yet another re-work of that stuff. Also, I gave letter grades to each Justice League episode segment as I watched it, and I gave the episodes in question (s2e01-02 and s2e11-12) relatively low grades--not failing grades but, you know, not the best. Other episodes were what really made it worth it to me, and I definitely enjoyed the series as a whole.
I watched the Superman animated series occasionally when it first aired, and it had a lot more in it about one of the key villains mentioned in that spoilery article. Someone who has seen it more recently might be able to advise you better there.
posted by Wobbuffet at 12:53 PM on March 27, 2016
Season 2 (2003-2004) of the Justice League animated series briefly covers relevant characters and potentialities we've seen in the DC universe before, but it seems to me the film is likely pointing to yet another re-work of that stuff. Also, I gave letter grades to each Justice League episode segment as I watched it, and I gave the episodes in question (s2e01-02 and s2e11-12) relatively low grades--not failing grades but, you know, not the best. Other episodes were what really made it worth it to me, and I definitely enjoyed the series as a whole.
I watched the Superman animated series occasionally when it first aired, and it had a lot more in it about one of the key villains mentioned in that spoilery article. Someone who has seen it more recently might be able to advise you better there.
posted by Wobbuffet at 12:53 PM on March 27, 2016
Judging by the synopsis that Wobbuffet linked to, the dream sequences have a lot to do with Darkseid and the New Gods. If that's what you want to know about, the second season of the 1996-1998 "Superman: The Animated Series" is a good introduction -- Darkseid is the final boss for the season, and the cartoon doesn't assume any prior knowledge on the part of the viewer and takes care to introduce him and his world. Also, this Superman series has ties to the Batman animated series that everyone is telling you to watch.
posted by baf at 1:44 PM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by baf at 1:44 PM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Reasonable people can of course disagree about matters of taste. But when someone asks, "I'd like to learn more about the Batman- and Superman-related DC universe," and someone else replies, "Avoid anything by Frank Miller"...that's just flat wrong. It is plain, objectively wrong. Irrespective of whether you like Miller or his work, he has been the single biggest influence on Batman canon in the past thirty years. It's like telling an aspiring literature student to avoid Shakespeare and the Bible.
As DirtyOldTown notes, Miller contributed two major works to the canon—The Dark Knight Returns and Year One—and both have been adapted into remarkably faithful animated movies. Again, you may like or dislike those animated movies; but they are based on stories that have been objectively and indisputably influential, and both movies objectively and indisputably hew closely to their source material.
To your second question, and somewhat more subjectively, I would suggest that you watch those two movies earlier rather than later in your proposed sequence simply because the stories they're based on predate most of what else you'll be watching and because those two stories were so influential on most of what else you'll be watching. If you watch those movies first, then you will have the context to recognize references, inspirations, and borrowings from those two stories when you encounter later works. From there I'd go to Batman: The Animated Series, which was almost equally influential across its span, which is one of the most widely beloved imaginings of Batman, and which spawnedmost all of the other series you mention.
posted by cribcage at 1:53 PM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
As DirtyOldTown notes, Miller contributed two major works to the canon—The Dark Knight Returns and Year One—and both have been adapted into remarkably faithful animated movies. Again, you may like or dislike those animated movies; but they are based on stories that have been objectively and indisputably influential, and both movies objectively and indisputably hew closely to their source material.
To your second question, and somewhat more subjectively, I would suggest that you watch those two movies earlier rather than later in your proposed sequence simply because the stories they're based on predate most of what else you'll be watching and because those two stories were so influential on most of what else you'll be watching. If you watch those movies first, then you will have the context to recognize references, inspirations, and borrowings from those two stories when you encounter later works. From there I'd go to Batman: The Animated Series, which was almost equally influential across its span, which is one of the most widely beloved imaginings of Batman, and which spawned
posted by cribcage at 1:53 PM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I might also put in a word for The Brave and the Bold. It's a lighter take on Batman and pretty fun, and regularly has Batman team up with other D.C. super-heroes.
posted by RobotHero at 8:30 PM on March 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 8:30 PM on March 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Though I admit it might not overlap a lot with whatever they're doing with big-screen Batman.
posted by RobotHero at 8:31 PM on March 27, 2016
posted by RobotHero at 8:31 PM on March 27, 2016
What everyone else has said: The Diniverse is the best place for DC animation (and I can almost guarantee you won't regret it), but if you want to try to understand the BVS thing, your best options are probably best limited to Batman: Year One and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Part 1 and Part 2.
You could also look at Superman/Batman: Public Enemies, Justice League: Doom, and Superman/Batman: Apocalypse (The DCAU page has a good wrap up).
I haven't seen all of those, so I can't attest to their quality, but my personal rule of thumb is that Dini/Timm is a sign of quality, and other things less so (but, generally not bad)
The Wonder Woman film is also solid. (and Justice League: The New Frontier, while unrelated to your question, is joyous, as is All-Star Superman).
Looking wider, you can ignore Batman Beyond, and I've rarely heard much about the Superman Adventures, so the course I would suggest is The Batman Adventures, the New Adventures of Batman and the two seasons of Justice League.
(And, yeah, you can ignore Brave and The Bold, if you want)
It depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go, but those will hit all the major beats for BvS and stuff that will probably come assuming they make more movies.
And while my rule is Dini/Timm forever, Miller infrequently, the comics that seem to be influencing Snyder are all largely Miller related: All-Star Batman, The Dark Knight trilogy, and some other stuff The Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum), so looking for those comics or films inspired by them will help.
I haven't said much about BvS Superman, because the grimdark version on screen doesn't seem to have any specific deep roots in the comics or animation I am aware of beyond the broad strokes of the characters).
posted by Mezentian at 9:03 PM on March 27, 2016
You could also look at Superman/Batman: Public Enemies, Justice League: Doom, and Superman/Batman: Apocalypse (The DCAU page has a good wrap up).
I haven't seen all of those, so I can't attest to their quality, but my personal rule of thumb is that Dini/Timm is a sign of quality, and other things less so (but, generally not bad)
The Wonder Woman film is also solid. (and Justice League: The New Frontier, while unrelated to your question, is joyous, as is All-Star Superman).
Looking wider, you can ignore Batman Beyond, and I've rarely heard much about the Superman Adventures, so the course I would suggest is The Batman Adventures, the New Adventures of Batman and the two seasons of Justice League.
(And, yeah, you can ignore Brave and The Bold, if you want)
It depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go, but those will hit all the major beats for BvS and stuff that will probably come assuming they make more movies.
And while my rule is Dini/Timm forever, Miller infrequently, the comics that seem to be influencing Snyder are all largely Miller related: All-Star Batman, The Dark Knight trilogy, and some other stuff The Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum), so looking for those comics or films inspired by them will help.
I haven't said much about BvS Superman, because the grimdark version on screen doesn't seem to have any specific deep roots in the comics or animation I am aware of beyond the broad strokes of the characters).
posted by Mezentian at 9:03 PM on March 27, 2016
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For Superman, the not-really-canon All-Star Superman is pretty mindbending and rad.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:49 AM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]