TL;DR I offended a guy at a party in a reallly... bad way, I guess?
March 23, 2016 2:13 AM Subscribe
TL;DR I offended a guy at a party in a reallly... bad way, I guess?
So, first of all, this was at a VERY rowdy party at a conference where I definitely had a fair amount to drink. I tend to have a lot of social anxiety, so having a drink for me (or really, a few) makes it easier to connect to people. But on the other hand I can come across as fairly sober to others on the surface when I am perhaps not.
In this case, I somehow ended up seated on a couch by myself late in the party and at a certain point a guy came around, sat down, and started talking to me - we chatted for a while, in a totally OK way, and then at a some point - and I honestly don't remember exactly how this happened - things went really sour. Basically I started to think that he was flirting with me strongly, the turning point being when he asked me something like, "Are you staying at this hotel?" and I said something to the effect that I wasn't interested in him, and he was SUPER OFFENDED at the idea that I thought that. To the point where he walked away from me in disgust.
There are a couple added elements here where a) In the grand scheme of things, all things considered, I am way below his league sexually, b) I struggle to make connections with people of any sort and I guess this is an example of why that might be my own fault - this guy just wanted to have a conversation and I totally fucked that up. On the other hand usually when that kind of thing happens to me - lone guy sits next to me on a couch - it's an attempt to flirt/sleep with me to an extent that I have this ingrained reaction (especially after a couple of drinks on my part). And I really wasn't thinking in any coherent fashion, which is my own fault.
So, fair enough to him I guess - I just know that this is going to eat away at me for days. I REALLY wish I had left that party earlier. But what should I do? Is there anything I can do? Realistically this is not someone I will ever see again, I guess - but if I was, reallly, just a WAAAAAY better person, this might have been an ok connection of just meeting a friend. WTF is wrong with me?
So, first of all, this was at a VERY rowdy party at a conference where I definitely had a fair amount to drink. I tend to have a lot of social anxiety, so having a drink for me (or really, a few) makes it easier to connect to people. But on the other hand I can come across as fairly sober to others on the surface when I am perhaps not.
In this case, I somehow ended up seated on a couch by myself late in the party and at a certain point a guy came around, sat down, and started talking to me - we chatted for a while, in a totally OK way, and then at a some point - and I honestly don't remember exactly how this happened - things went really sour. Basically I started to think that he was flirting with me strongly, the turning point being when he asked me something like, "Are you staying at this hotel?" and I said something to the effect that I wasn't interested in him, and he was SUPER OFFENDED at the idea that I thought that. To the point where he walked away from me in disgust.
There are a couple added elements here where a) In the grand scheme of things, all things considered, I am way below his league sexually, b) I struggle to make connections with people of any sort and I guess this is an example of why that might be my own fault - this guy just wanted to have a conversation and I totally fucked that up. On the other hand usually when that kind of thing happens to me - lone guy sits next to me on a couch - it's an attempt to flirt/sleep with me to an extent that I have this ingrained reaction (especially after a couple of drinks on my part). And I really wasn't thinking in any coherent fashion, which is my own fault.
So, fair enough to him I guess - I just know that this is going to eat away at me for days. I REALLY wish I had left that party earlier. But what should I do? Is there anything I can do? Realistically this is not someone I will ever see again, I guess - but if I was, reallly, just a WAAAAAY better person, this might have been an ok connection of just meeting a friend. WTF is wrong with me?
Oh, and zeroing in on an obviously drunk girl to take advantage of her in a nearby hotel room is ultra ultra sleazy too. Ick.
posted by Jubey at 2:28 AM on March 23, 2016 [51 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 2:28 AM on March 23, 2016 [51 favorites]
Nine times out of ten, if a man sits down with you to chat at a party, he is interested in you sexually to some degree. You were obviously not "below his league sexually" and you should wipe such a horrible phrase out of your mind. You did nothing wrong here in my opinion.
posted by Ariadne at 2:28 AM on March 23, 2016 [119 favorites]
posted by Ariadne at 2:28 AM on March 23, 2016 [119 favorites]
He was upset because he got called on what he was doing. And even if I'm wrong (I'm not), he reacted like a jerk.
Seriously, you've done nothing wrong. You don't need everyone to like you, and you've had enough experiences to know that that's where he was probably going and to shut it down. Give yourself a break.
posted by gmb at 2:30 AM on March 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
Seriously, you've done nothing wrong. You don't need everyone to like you, and you've had enough experiences to know that that's where he was probably going and to shut it down. Give yourself a break.
posted by gmb at 2:30 AM on March 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
You were obviously not "below his league sexually" and you should wipe such a horrible phrase out of your mind.This. Seriously, that's a terrible thing to say to yourself.
posted by gmb at 2:31 AM on March 23, 2016 [75 favorites]
You said you weren't interested. Who cares if he was offended. He doesn't have any real reason to be offended:
- If he was truly interested in you he should have just taken you at your word that you were not interested and let it go.
- If he wasn't interested in you, he should have just made do with a slightly awkward situation and laughed it off and changed subjects.
Being offended speaks really bad of him. You did fine, it's not your fault.
posted by like_neon at 2:38 AM on March 23, 2016 [39 favorites]
- If he was truly interested in you he should have just taken you at your word that you were not interested and let it go.
- If he wasn't interested in you, he should have just made do with a slightly awkward situation and laughed it off and changed subjects.
Being offended speaks really bad of him. You did fine, it's not your fault.
posted by like_neon at 2:38 AM on March 23, 2016 [39 favorites]
Leave it. Just leave it. I likely think you read him correctly, but it really doesn't matter. Unless he's your boss or a major stakeholder or your best friend's brother, I don't think you should care. And even if he is, your best bet is probably to leave it.
(PS-- I would also let that kind of thing eat away at me, but a couple of years ago I figured out that what really was bothering me was that I let myself drink to the point where I felt out of control.)
posted by frumiousb at 2:43 AM on March 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
(PS-- I would also let that kind of thing eat away at me, but a couple of years ago I figured out that what really was bothering me was that I let myself drink to the point where I felt out of control.)
posted by frumiousb at 2:43 AM on March 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
I'm a gay dude. I've definitely struck up conversations with female acquaintances where I asked something that sounded like innocent small talk to me (where are you staying, what sports do you play, etc) but seemed to them like I was making moves. The minute I realize how they're perceiving it ('umm I have a boyfriend...') I apologize for being so dimwitted, explain my gayness and feel super bad about it! If he genuinely wasn't hitting on you, he should have just said he was sorry and moved on. If he was hitting on you he should have accepted that it's not reciprocal and moved on. Either way, getting all 'well I never!' is totally uncool.
And yeah, I'm with frumiousb: no need to take this up or make a big(ger) deal about it. He's the one who overreacted, not you.
posted by rottenindenmark at 3:02 AM on March 23, 2016 [54 favorites]
And yeah, I'm with frumiousb: no need to take this up or make a big(ger) deal about it. He's the one who overreacted, not you.
posted by rottenindenmark at 3:02 AM on March 23, 2016 [54 favorites]
I said something to the effect that I wasn't interested in him, and he was SUPER OFFENDED at the idea that I thought that. To the point where he walked away from me in disgust.
If he reacted to that statement like that then he's a dick, and he reacted like a dick. The correct response,if he wasn't trying to flirt, would be to laugh it off and apologise for giving that impression, or if he was flirting, just change the subject? Or something polite and respectful either way? But walking away in disgust? You did nothing wrong, assuming your "wasn't interested" comment wasn't really rude or offensive in some way but that seems unlikely.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:06 AM on March 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
If he reacted to that statement like that then he's a dick, and he reacted like a dick. The correct response,if he wasn't trying to flirt, would be to laugh it off and apologise for giving that impression, or if he was flirting, just change the subject? Or something polite and respectful either way? But walking away in disgust? You did nothing wrong, assuming your "wasn't interested" comment wasn't really rude or offensive in some way but that seems unlikely.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:06 AM on March 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Is there anything I can do?
Yup, you can move on and never give it a moment's further thought.
posted by biffa at 3:08 AM on March 23, 2016 [20 favorites]
Yup, you can move on and never give it a moment's further thought.
posted by biffa at 3:08 AM on March 23, 2016 [20 favorites]
What everyone is saying...to help you get over the mortification of your own actions, simply replace you in this scenario with a friend of yours or someone you respect socially and play that scenario over to yourself. Hopefully you will see that it is honestly no big deal even if you did misinterpret his intentions, and that far and away HE is the one that made the social gaffe by simply not laughing it off or politely correcting you.
People are more concerned with their own stuff, no one else is gonna be thinking about this today. In the very very off chance that someone does mention it, laugh it off, "Oh, I may have misinterpreted the situation (I didn't), but he overreacted a tad, no?" Then move on.
posted by newpotato at 3:20 AM on March 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
People are more concerned with their own stuff, no one else is gonna be thinking about this today. In the very very off chance that someone does mention it, laugh it off, "Oh, I may have misinterpreted the situation (I didn't), but he overreacted a tad, no?" Then move on.
posted by newpotato at 3:20 AM on March 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
There's a certain type of guy who gets really friendly and flirty with women he's interested in, but turns into a gigantic ass the instant he's rejected, no matter how politely - often with a combination of misogynist slurs, disparaging remarks about the woman's appearance, and transparent attempts to deny that he was ever interested. It's a huge reason why women give out fake numbers instead of saying "no" to men's faces. Could this be what happened?
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:23 AM on March 23, 2016 [68 favorites]
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:23 AM on March 23, 2016 [68 favorites]
A guy was flirting with you, you were clear about not being interested, and his poor fragile ego couldn't take it. You did nothing wrong - He's just a dick. Don't sweat it.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:27 AM on March 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:27 AM on March 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
I think it's fair enough to move on without thinking about it again.
Regardless of anything you might have said or done, if he was a decent bloke he would have dealt with it at least politely, if not graciously. Maybe he was drunk too. Doesn't matter. It's done.
Next time something similar happens, if it does, you will probably feel happier about the way you deal with it because of this situation. That's not all bad.
posted by mewsic at 3:44 AM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Regardless of anything you might have said or done, if he was a decent bloke he would have dealt with it at least politely, if not graciously. Maybe he was drunk too. Doesn't matter. It's done.
Next time something similar happens, if it does, you will probably feel happier about the way you deal with it because of this situation. That's not all bad.
posted by mewsic at 3:44 AM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yup, dude was hitting on you but thought he was being sly. You called him on it and he showed his true colours. The poor behaviour was entirely his.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 3:56 AM on March 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 3:56 AM on March 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I have been in this exact situation (a few times) except that I don't drink, so I've had my full faculties about me to watch these dudes implode. I 100% agree with the others here that this wasn't you being offensive, this was that guy being saddlesore that a woman had the gall to shoot down his sexual advances. How sad for him. But that's his problem, not yours.
posted by phunniemee at 4:17 AM on March 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 4:17 AM on March 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
The problem here is him not you. Women have the absolute right to be clear about their boundaries, have found as a group that it is routinely necessary to do so, and the situation you describe (boozy social event, man you've never met before) is absolutely one of the scenarios where it is 100% appropriate to declare them. Men who cannot understand why that is so and get personally offended when you state your lack of sexual availability should make you angry, not embarrassed. (And I am pissed at poor diddums on your behalf.)
posted by DarlingBri at 4:48 AM on March 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 4:48 AM on March 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm a gay dude. I've definitely struck up conversations with female acquaintances where I asked something that sounded like innocent small talk to me (where are you staying, what sports do you play, etc) but seemed to them like I was making moves. The minute I realize how they're perceiving it ('umm I have a boyfriend...') I apologize for being so dimwitted, explain my gayness and feel super bad about it! If he genuinely wasn't hitting on you, he should have just said he was sorry and moved on. If he was hitting on you he should have accepted that it's not reciprocal and moved on. Either way, getting all 'well I never!' is totally uncool.
I'm not gay, but I've also done this a million times. It just isn't a big deal -- you just say "woah, miscommunication!" and everyone laughs and moves on. Miscommunications are normal and everyone does it; his making it a big deal is what is weird here. And it's also normal and not-weird to be actually flirting and have it be rejected -- there again, a normal person would just laugh, make a lighthearted comment, and move on.
I'm leaning towards the interpretation that he was being flirty but not in an open way (like maybe he was married?), and hence got super weird and outraged at having it called out into the open. Like maybe he had an imagined scenario where everything moved seamlessly from chatting on the couch to his room without having to admit to what was happening or discuss the reasons it might not be a great idea, and your calling it out disrupted that in a big way. No matter what was really going on in his head, his reaction was immature and weird, and you are well rid of him.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:50 AM on March 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm not gay, but I've also done this a million times. It just isn't a big deal -- you just say "woah, miscommunication!" and everyone laughs and moves on. Miscommunications are normal and everyone does it; his making it a big deal is what is weird here. And it's also normal and not-weird to be actually flirting and have it be rejected -- there again, a normal person would just laugh, make a lighthearted comment, and move on.
I'm leaning towards the interpretation that he was being flirty but not in an open way (like maybe he was married?), and hence got super weird and outraged at having it called out into the open. Like maybe he had an imagined scenario where everything moved seamlessly from chatting on the couch to his room without having to admit to what was happening or discuss the reasons it might not be a great idea, and your calling it out disrupted that in a big way. No matter what was really going on in his head, his reaction was immature and weird, and you are well rid of him.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:50 AM on March 23, 2016 [6 favorites]
You're fine here. Maybe he was hitting on you and reacted with anger to being rejected, in which case he's a jerk, and it doesn't matter whether he was mad, so you're fine. Maybe he wasn't hitting on you, in which case, he probably wasn't mad, but just really embarrassed at realizing he accidentally came off like a creep, in which case you're also fine. To sum up: you're fine.
posted by escabeche at 4:57 AM on March 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by escabeche at 4:57 AM on March 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
If he really wasn't trying to do exactly what you called him out on doing then he wouldn't have been so mad about it. This is some serious gas lighting shit.
Women are socially conditioned to "let guys down easy" even when they are acting highly inappropriate. Often even when a man's behavior crosses the line to sexual assault. Therefore, some men feel entitled to be, at the very least, rejected in a very tactful, discrete manner where they can save face. And honestly if the guy isn't a creep and is acting appropriately then it's often the kind thing to do. But zeroing in on the drunk girl alone on the couch and trying to find out if she has an empty hotel room upstairs? Yeah you are perfectly within your right to just shut that down with a minimum of social niceties.
This guy is an ass and was definitely not interested in striking up a new friendship with you.
posted by whoaali at 5:06 AM on March 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
Women are socially conditioned to "let guys down easy" even when they are acting highly inappropriate. Often even when a man's behavior crosses the line to sexual assault. Therefore, some men feel entitled to be, at the very least, rejected in a very tactful, discrete manner where they can save face. And honestly if the guy isn't a creep and is acting appropriately then it's often the kind thing to do. But zeroing in on the drunk girl alone on the couch and trying to find out if she has an empty hotel room upstairs? Yeah you are perfectly within your right to just shut that down with a minimum of social niceties.
This guy is an ass and was definitely not interested in striking up a new friendship with you.
posted by whoaali at 5:06 AM on March 23, 2016 [10 favorites]
Suppose you don't take the excellent advice above (he was hitting on you, and then hassled you when you rejected him) and the next time this happens, you're tipsy, a bloke who you are not interested in sexually sits beside you and asks if you're staying here - and to avoid being "rude", you say, yes, i am / no, actually, i'm at the Waldorf - what happens next? Do you suppose he says - me too, isn't the breakfast menu weird or does he say, can i walk/escort you home/to your floor? Okay, breakfast menu is weird is great conversation topic, no problems. No, i don't need help finding my room - aaaand, you are back in the same spot. Bitch, i didn't even think you were hot.
And i quit a trivia team last year because my lift back to the tram station involved a stop at his house with his male friend, for coffee where the conversation directed by him was about making money by performing sex on camera for websites. When i said i didn't think it was a long term profitable business plan with so many enthusiastic amateurs doing it for free, he told me, well, obviously YOU wouldn't make any money. I left. Walked to tram station by myself, harassed by some drunken teens. Blamed myself for social awkwardness. But doing the math. Two blokes and me, and every time i change the subject, it comes back to pay per view sex acts? Plausible deniability for getting me to do something i didn't want to. Anyway, you're cool. I like your style, and you lost nothing whdn the jerk got offended. Would have been extra awesome if you had tripped him as well, but never mind.
posted by b33j at 5:15 AM on March 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
And i quit a trivia team last year because my lift back to the tram station involved a stop at his house with his male friend, for coffee where the conversation directed by him was about making money by performing sex on camera for websites. When i said i didn't think it was a long term profitable business plan with so many enthusiastic amateurs doing it for free, he told me, well, obviously YOU wouldn't make any money. I left. Walked to tram station by myself, harassed by some drunken teens. Blamed myself for social awkwardness. But doing the math. Two blokes and me, and every time i change the subject, it comes back to pay per view sex acts? Plausible deniability for getting me to do something i didn't want to. Anyway, you're cool. I like your style, and you lost nothing whdn the jerk got offended. Would have been extra awesome if you had tripped him as well, but never mind.
posted by b33j at 5:15 AM on March 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
First of all, who cares? So some poor dandelion got his fluff blowed off. Big honking deal. He's a big boy...well, actually, he's not. He's a sixth-grader. Who acts like that???
Secondly, no gentleman is going to ask where you're staying, it's fucking creepy.
Thirdly, you're not out of anyone's league in any way.
Fourthly...oh man, what is wrong with people? He was a total douche-canoe.
So realize that you did NOTHING wrong, that he was totally the asshole in this situation, and learn to stop apologizing for being in the world.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:16 AM on March 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Secondly, no gentleman is going to ask where you're staying, it's fucking creepy.
Thirdly, you're not out of anyone's league in any way.
Fourthly...oh man, what is wrong with people? He was a total douche-canoe.
So realize that you did NOTHING wrong, that he was totally the asshole in this situation, and learn to stop apologizing for being in the world.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:16 AM on March 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Hey, I personally had someone check in with me during a lunch hang-out to say that just in case I had invited her to lunch as a date, well, she didn't see me that way. I hadn't even thought of it as a date and said so. It was a bit awkward! But the conversation moved on and it was all okay in the end. That's normal, and it wasn't a sign of her brash presumption that she thought I might have been asking her out.
I feel like maybe an issue for you is something like "how could below-his-league little me have been dumb and vain enough to assume this guy was interested, I am such a loser". That's female socialization - being suuuuuuuper humble and self-doubting and feeling terrible about assuming anyone could be interested. There is nothing wrong with assuming that someone who pays you unusual attention may be hitting on you.
He sounds skeevy and his reaction sounds like typical male rage to me.
posted by Frowner at 5:17 AM on March 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
I feel like maybe an issue for you is something like "how could below-his-league little me have been dumb and vain enough to assume this guy was interested, I am such a loser". That's female socialization - being suuuuuuuper humble and self-doubting and feeling terrible about assuming anyone could be interested. There is nothing wrong with assuming that someone who pays you unusual attention may be hitting on you.
He sounds skeevy and his reaction sounds like typical male rage to me.
posted by Frowner at 5:17 AM on March 23, 2016 [9 favorites]
This is a pretty common tactic -- hit on a woman, when she turns you down, say you were never hitting on her at all and wow what an ego. There is no way to turn that kind of person down without getting that kind of blowback. A respectful person will back off; a real miscommunication will be laughed at. This was a creep who wanted to make you feel bad after he got rejected.
posted by jeather at 5:19 AM on March 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by jeather at 5:19 AM on March 23, 2016 [32 favorites]
Why the hell are you doing all these mental gymnastics to convince the world it's not true that he
1. totally was interested in you
2. was butthurt when you rejected him
3. instead of coping with embarrassment like an adult, he lashed out and threw a little tantrum
4. completely lied about his intentions
5. thought you were a dummy and would believe it was all in your head?
All these things are true. Don't let him bully you into doubting yourself. It's typical manipulative behavior.
posted by Tarumba at 5:36 AM on March 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
1. totally was interested in you
2. was butthurt when you rejected him
3. instead of coping with embarrassment like an adult, he lashed out and threw a little tantrum
4. completely lied about his intentions
5. thought you were a dummy and would believe it was all in your head?
All these things are true. Don't let him bully you into doubting yourself. It's typical manipulative behavior.
posted by Tarumba at 5:36 AM on March 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
He's one of those guys that make jokes about women never making their intentions clear, that get's pissed off when they make their intentions clear because what he actually means is why don't make it clear they'll sleep with me. Give him not a moments more thought.
Late at night, lone woman at a party that has been drinking, any adult human guy that wasn't hitting on you would just go "oh wait yeah I can see how you'd think I was hitting on you ... sorry " then have things feel awkward for a moment.
The guy is probably on a seedy subreddit as we speak typing up about how he got so much action at the party or about how he's so studly he had to put one woman in her place, the world Feminazi is probably being used, because "women amirite?". He is not worth your mental energy, every time you think about it imagine telling him to fuck off & then fuck off some more until you no longer think about him.
posted by wwax at 5:38 AM on March 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Late at night, lone woman at a party that has been drinking, any adult human guy that wasn't hitting on you would just go "oh wait yeah I can see how you'd think I was hitting on you ... sorry " then have things feel awkward for a moment.
The guy is probably on a seedy subreddit as we speak typing up about how he got so much action at the party or about how he's so studly he had to put one woman in her place, the world Feminazi is probably being used, because "women amirite?". He is not worth your mental energy, every time you think about it imagine telling him to fuck off & then fuck off some more until you no longer think about him.
posted by wwax at 5:38 AM on March 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
If I was drunk and hit on somebody in an inappropriate way and they told me they weren't interested, I would make an over-the-top show of being offended and misunderstood just like he did. As much in an effort to convince myself as you.
On a side note, if the party was rowdy and people were generally drunk and letting loose, this effectively didn't happen. Brush it into the memory dustbin.
posted by ftm at 6:15 AM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
On a side note, if the party was rowdy and people were generally drunk and letting loose, this effectively didn't happen. Brush it into the memory dustbin.
posted by ftm at 6:15 AM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
This guy was clearly being a dick, however I wanted to point out that "are you staying at this hotel?" does not necessarily have to be a creepy question. I just returned from a conference last week, and I did notice that "are you staying at this hotel?" became a pretty standard conversation filler between attendees.
posted by cakelite at 6:55 AM on March 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 6:55 AM on March 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Everyone above has great arguments that you were not at fault.
I will also add that it's probably your social anxiety that makes a small interaction like this eat away at you for days. All the double-guessing and fretting is your anxiety trying to pick you apart and undermine you.
Give yourself a hug, tell yourself you're doing fine at adulting, and let these thoughts slip away into the past where they belong. :)
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:18 AM on March 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I will also add that it's probably your social anxiety that makes a small interaction like this eat away at you for days. All the double-guessing and fretting is your anxiety trying to pick you apart and undermine you.
Give yourself a hug, tell yourself you're doing fine at adulting, and let these thoughts slip away into the past where they belong. :)
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:18 AM on March 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I haven't read the other answers, but:
1. Pretend you can't remember any of it.
2. If he got THAT offended at you assuming sexual interest (rather than just slightly miffed or annoyed), he has some sort of hangup of his own or is very sheltered or naïve. Something is going on in his brain that is not your fault or your problem. This is small potatoes and a fairly normal mistake that will surely happen to him again in his lifespan.
posted by quincunx at 7:24 AM on March 23, 2016
1. Pretend you can't remember any of it.
2. If he got THAT offended at you assuming sexual interest (rather than just slightly miffed or annoyed), he has some sort of hangup of his own or is very sheltered or naïve. Something is going on in his brain that is not your fault or your problem. This is small potatoes and a fairly normal mistake that will surely happen to him again in his lifespan.
posted by quincunx at 7:24 AM on March 23, 2016
I've often been in situations where I had to make small talk with men, not hitting on them in any way, and they've preemptively rejected me seemingly out of nowhere.
I did think they were being presumptuous.
I did not get massively visibly offended and storm off. In fact, I showed no visible reaction at all.
I hope that answers your question.
posted by tel3path at 7:27 AM on March 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I did think they were being presumptuous.
I did not get massively visibly offended and storm off. In fact, I showed no visible reaction at all.
I hope that answers your question.
posted by tel3path at 7:27 AM on March 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
In a just world, HE would be the one posting a question here about how he was an immature fragile tool because a stranger rejected him, and now he can't stop feeling bad about what a pouty jackass he was. As everyone else has said, you did nothing wrong. Please be kind to yourself.
posted by DingoMutt at 7:31 AM on March 23, 2016
posted by DingoMutt at 7:31 AM on March 23, 2016
Here's what you did wrong:
(a) you called him out directly on not wanting to fuck him.
(b) you didn't want to fuck him.
This kind of thing is exactly why women are indirect and fudge and "oh, I forgot, I have to be somewhere right now" and all that jazz. Because you never know when a guy is going to act like this or worse if you say no.
Obviously he's a jerk, but unfortunately, guys like this are abundant and of low value. I'd recommend not being so direct next time and getting yourself out of the situation by less direct means. Make up excuses. "I have a boyfriend" is a popular one for a reason. Calling guys out directly on their intentions can end....poorly, as you saw.
Oh, and almost always if some random dude is talking to you, he wants to fuck you. Very few drunk straight guys are platonic.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
(a) you called him out directly on not wanting to fuck him.
(b) you didn't want to fuck him.
This kind of thing is exactly why women are indirect and fudge and "oh, I forgot, I have to be somewhere right now" and all that jazz. Because you never know when a guy is going to act like this or worse if you say no.
Obviously he's a jerk, but unfortunately, guys like this are abundant and of low value. I'd recommend not being so direct next time and getting yourself out of the situation by less direct means. Make up excuses. "I have a boyfriend" is a popular one for a reason. Calling guys out directly on their intentions can end....poorly, as you saw.
Oh, and almost always if some random dude is talking to you, he wants to fuck you. Very few drunk straight guys are platonic.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Wow.... to give more context on the "league" comment - the guy manages (or is at least in some way affiliated to) one of the performers at the conference (a hip-hop artist you may or may not have heard of) and thus this was sort of a conference-attendee talking to actual cool/entertainment industry person interaction.
I guess everyone is right and I should just let it go - in retrospect the interaction does seem ridiculously over the top. But it was just so harsh.... at a certain point he said (to something that I cannot remember what I said), disbelievingly, "You think I'm trying to sleep with you?" Which I don't think I actually said in so many words. Cue me getting a sinking feeling in my stomach and stumbling through a few words, saying something like, "well when you asked me if I was staying at this hotel... I'm sorry... did I offend you?" At which point he just gives me a look, gets up, and walks away.
posted by scribbler at 7:35 AM on March 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
I guess everyone is right and I should just let it go - in retrospect the interaction does seem ridiculously over the top. But it was just so harsh.... at a certain point he said (to something that I cannot remember what I said), disbelievingly, "You think I'm trying to sleep with you?" Which I don't think I actually said in so many words. Cue me getting a sinking feeling in my stomach and stumbling through a few words, saying something like, "well when you asked me if I was staying at this hotel... I'm sorry... did I offend you?" At which point he just gives me a look, gets up, and walks away.
posted by scribbler at 7:35 AM on March 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wow.... to give more context on the "league" comment - the guy manages (or is at least in some way affiliated to) one of the performers at the conference (a hip-hop artist you may or may not have heard of) and thus this was sort of a conference-attendee talking to actual cool/entertainment industry person interaction.
Oh all of my lols. Of course. How dare you, you lowly no-name conference-attendee, assume and immediately reject any attempt on his part to hit on you. He is important and famous and 1000s of women would claw each other to death even for the chance to be where you are. His painfully common male entitlement to your attention is compounded by an overinflated ego. It's a perfect storm.
posted by phunniemee at 7:44 AM on March 23, 2016 [50 favorites]
Oh all of my lols. Of course. How dare you, you lowly no-name conference-attendee, assume and immediately reject any attempt on his part to hit on you. He is important and famous and 1000s of women would claw each other to death even for the chance to be where you are. His painfully common male entitlement to your attention is compounded by an overinflated ego. It's a perfect storm.
posted by phunniemee at 7:44 AM on March 23, 2016 [50 favorites]
Nthing just about everyone:
*He* is the one that should be apologizing. *IF* he wasn't interested the correct response to you saying you weren't interested would be "Oh, I'm so sorry.... I was just making some small talk.... Ack, awkward! Anyway.... what was your favorite session at the conference today?" and moving on like a grown ass adult.
Given the nature of conferences though, it is not at all unreasonable for you to have made that conclusion whether it was the right or wrong one for this particular conversation.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 7:46 AM on March 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
*He* is the one that should be apologizing. *IF* he wasn't interested the correct response to you saying you weren't interested would be "Oh, I'm so sorry.... I was just making some small talk.... Ack, awkward! Anyway.... what was your favorite session at the conference today?" and moving on like a grown ass adult.
Given the nature of conferences though, it is not at all unreasonable for you to have made that conclusion whether it was the right or wrong one for this particular conversation.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 7:46 AM on March 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
No, sorry, still classless behavior. Wouldn't matter if he was Mr. Universe (ie, personally beautiful; frankly "I am so connected that you'd be lucky to sleep with me" isn't the same thing) instead of an employee or hanger-on of some famous guy, except that perhaps he's so used to people fawning all over him because of his connection to Famous Dude that he's let his manners atrophy.
When I was in my twenties, I had a series of terrible, mortifying and unpleasant social interactions with a particular large social formation. After a while, I just decided that I'd rather be alone than go through that, and it made my life so much better. The power of avoiding environments that are full of jerks is a great one - ever since then, if I don't like a social setting, I leave, and I always know that I'm sufficient unto myself.
If you're finding yourself at parties like this on the regular, I suggest actively telling yourself that you are Not Going Anymore, and seeking out a different social sphere. If you have to interact with these people for professional reasons, find a different way to do it. Also, "having better things to do" gives you a lot of social power. I never go to parties; people are thrilled when I show up now and go out of their way to be nice.
Also, also: one thing I've realized as I've aged is that soooooooo many of the people (especially but not exclusively men) that I thought were so cool and intimidating and amazing and artistic and right-on, etc etc when I was in my twenties are actually kind of laughable. Like, whoa, this dude is a big man because he's staff for some famous guy. Uh, sorry, no. He wants people to think he's a big man.
Also, also, also: be skeptical about people in the entertainment industry. I too have been skeeved on by a band manager on several occasions; I naived my way out of it because I really didn't realize what was happening, but even in my twenties I was pudgy and no great beauty. Didn't keep people from inviting me backstage and offering me booze, and I'm sure it wouldn't have kept them from fucking me if they'd gotten me liquored up enough. There are nice people in entertainment circles, but there's a higher-than-normal percentage of entitled creepers. And more importantly, we live in a society which encourages us to think of entertainment industry people as special important beautiful geniuses. I've met some genuinely special, important geniuses and their quality, in relation to assorted band managers, guitarists, etc, was obvious.
posted by Frowner at 7:47 AM on March 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
When I was in my twenties, I had a series of terrible, mortifying and unpleasant social interactions with a particular large social formation. After a while, I just decided that I'd rather be alone than go through that, and it made my life so much better. The power of avoiding environments that are full of jerks is a great one - ever since then, if I don't like a social setting, I leave, and I always know that I'm sufficient unto myself.
If you're finding yourself at parties like this on the regular, I suggest actively telling yourself that you are Not Going Anymore, and seeking out a different social sphere. If you have to interact with these people for professional reasons, find a different way to do it. Also, "having better things to do" gives you a lot of social power. I never go to parties; people are thrilled when I show up now and go out of their way to be nice.
Also, also: one thing I've realized as I've aged is that soooooooo many of the people (especially but not exclusively men) that I thought were so cool and intimidating and amazing and artistic and right-on, etc etc when I was in my twenties are actually kind of laughable. Like, whoa, this dude is a big man because he's staff for some famous guy. Uh, sorry, no. He wants people to think he's a big man.
Also, also, also: be skeptical about people in the entertainment industry. I too have been skeeved on by a band manager on several occasions; I naived my way out of it because I really didn't realize what was happening, but even in my twenties I was pudgy and no great beauty. Didn't keep people from inviting me backstage and offering me booze, and I'm sure it wouldn't have kept them from fucking me if they'd gotten me liquored up enough. There are nice people in entertainment circles, but there's a higher-than-normal percentage of entitled creepers. And more importantly, we live in a society which encourages us to think of entertainment industry people as special important beautiful geniuses. I've met some genuinely special, important geniuses and their quality, in relation to assorted band managers, guitarists, etc, was obvious.
posted by Frowner at 7:47 AM on March 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
I agree with everyone else that this is a him problem and not a you problem.
And on reading your update, I can tell you that the weirdest and most aggressive conversation I've had with anyone in the last 6 months was also with a manager of a not-unknown hip hop artist. The difference being I don't drink and wasn't at the party alone, so there wasn't any ambiguity about being hit on or wanting to be or whatever. And this was a house party so we had mutual friends and actual stuff to talk about. Anyway, he was completely disrespectful and kept trying to talk AT me instead of with me, if you know what I mean. It was infuriating and pressed all my insecurity buttons and it was an abnormal interaction on such a high level that just thinking about it now gets me all confused and angry.
Be kind to yourself! This is seriously not your problem. Feel bad for him that he obviously fails at basic human interaction.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
And on reading your update, I can tell you that the weirdest and most aggressive conversation I've had with anyone in the last 6 months was also with a manager of a not-unknown hip hop artist. The difference being I don't drink and wasn't at the party alone, so there wasn't any ambiguity about being hit on or wanting to be or whatever. And this was a house party so we had mutual friends and actual stuff to talk about. Anyway, he was completely disrespectful and kept trying to talk AT me instead of with me, if you know what I mean. It was infuriating and pressed all my insecurity buttons and it was an abnormal interaction on such a high level that just thinking about it now gets me all confused and angry.
Be kind to yourself! This is seriously not your problem. Feel bad for him that he obviously fails at basic human interaction.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2016 [4 favorites]
Poetically, what appears to be the low hanging fruit, turns out to be, "the golden apples of the sun, and the silver apples of the moon." You go person. Score one for you.
posted by Oyéah at 8:03 AM on March 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 8:03 AM on March 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Ugh, so he expected that the knowledge that he works *for* a semi-famous person would bend you to his will and make you feel ashamed for "throwing away" the chance to "talk" to him, when all you were doing was establishing a very reasonable boundary that is clear enough for drunk people. Nah, fuck this dude. He's not better than you; he's a pushy asshole. Be glad you saved yourself a half hour of talking about a possibly-fictional boyfriend before he *then* walked off disgusted that his tenuous connection to fame didn't make you tear off all his clothes.
posted by hollyholly at 8:16 AM on March 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by hollyholly at 8:16 AM on March 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
You are in the middle of post-drinking anxiety! It is a real thing! Your brain is on fire, because of the alcohol cleanup that is going on, and your brain is trying to identify what is causing the feeling on fire thing and it has picked this event!
Wait out the anxiety. Don't make any big decisions for a couple days or completely chuck your sense of self worth and self esteem. You'll get back to normal soon.
Here is what you need to tell your brain: you were an ultimate bad ass cool chick who shut down an asshole and now you aren't going to waste any more time thinking about it. Because you're cool.
Be cool! You've got this. Fake it till you actually feel that way.
posted by skrozidile at 8:20 AM on March 23, 2016 [30 favorites]
Wait out the anxiety. Don't make any big decisions for a couple days or completely chuck your sense of self worth and self esteem. You'll get back to normal soon.
Here is what you need to tell your brain: you were an ultimate bad ass cool chick who shut down an asshole and now you aren't going to waste any more time thinking about it. Because you're cool.
Be cool! You've got this. Fake it till you actually feel that way.
posted by skrozidile at 8:20 AM on March 23, 2016 [30 favorites]
You've posted in the past about being more assertive. I struggle with this, too, and I've found that there's a learning curve between being passive and more assertive, where sometimes I'm just aggressive without meaning to be. I'm not suggesting you were aggressive with that comment, but I'm saying that it takes time and patience to find a balance where you feel like you can call out this guy in a way that doesn't put you in an endless feedback loop afterwards. Consider it a learning moment and move on. People get offended for all sorts of reasons, 99.9% of which have nothing to do with you. Take a few minutes to write down how this changes your life (hint: it doesn't), and then think about how you want to respond in the future so that YOU feel okay about it.
posted by mrfuga0 at 9:03 AM on March 23, 2016
posted by mrfuga0 at 9:03 AM on March 23, 2016
...so, on a Futurama episode, Leela goes on a date with the mayor's aide, whose name I cannot even remember because he keeps trying to pull strings by calling himself the mayor's aide.
This guy is worse than that cartoon character.
He is skeevy. You were not wrong, not about your assessment and not about him. You played your cards perfectly. You're "below his league" because it can't be possible for him to be rejected. It's bullshit.
posted by RainyJay at 11:17 AM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
This guy is worse than that cartoon character.
He is skeevy. You were not wrong, not about your assessment and not about him. You played your cards perfectly. You're "below his league" because it can't be possible for him to be rejected. It's bullshit.
posted by RainyJay at 11:17 AM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wrote something similar to this in a comment on the blue once:
So, you know how men often complain about how women expect them to be mind-readers? They're full of shit, because men play worse games. Men like this say they just want women to be direct, but they don't actually want you to be direct; they just want you to say "yes." If you actually directly turn them down they're super offended. This guy reminds me of that type of man.
As a woman, you've probably grown to expect--and be on guard against--unwanted expressions of sexual interest. And a lot of it is wrapped up in plausible deniability. Sometimes it's because the man wants to work up to it slowly. But often, it's because the man wants to shift the embarrassment of a rejection onto you. Instead of him being embarrassed about being rejected, he wants you to feel embarrassed that you ever thought he'd be interested in you.
It's a dick ego-saving move and men who engage in it don't deserve your consideration.
You didn't do anything wrong here. Sometimes you'll misread people, but even if that's what happened here, the correct response for him would have been, "Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound that way."
But I don't think you did misread him anyway. The odds are you didn't, and from your description (thinking he was flirting), I bet he's just pulled this dick ego-saving move. He was embarrassed and angry and entitled and you shouldn't feel down about it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2016 [24 favorites]
So, you know how men often complain about how women expect them to be mind-readers? They're full of shit, because men play worse games. Men like this say they just want women to be direct, but they don't actually want you to be direct; they just want you to say "yes." If you actually directly turn them down they're super offended. This guy reminds me of that type of man.
As a woman, you've probably grown to expect--and be on guard against--unwanted expressions of sexual interest. And a lot of it is wrapped up in plausible deniability. Sometimes it's because the man wants to work up to it slowly. But often, it's because the man wants to shift the embarrassment of a rejection onto you. Instead of him being embarrassed about being rejected, he wants you to feel embarrassed that you ever thought he'd be interested in you.
It's a dick ego-saving move and men who engage in it don't deserve your consideration.
You didn't do anything wrong here. Sometimes you'll misread people, but even if that's what happened here, the correct response for him would have been, "Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound that way."
But I don't think you did misread him anyway. The odds are you didn't, and from your description (thinking he was flirting), I bet he's just pulled this dick ego-saving move. He was embarrassed and angry and entitled and you shouldn't feel down about it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2016 [24 favorites]
I'm amused that this guy got shot down so cleanly by you. Good riddance! I kind of feel like high fiving you.
But I am sad that you feel so bad about yourself now! Are you having the hangover blues, maybe?
Also, I'll take your word for it that maybe this guy looks like a model and you just look like us normal folks look. If that's the case he may have thought you'd be super easy to impress, and get sex out of, and of course the rejection felt doubly shameful to him. He's a ten! A lowly one digit number rejected him! So he felt bad and he tried to make you feel just as bad.
Don't let him win. This guy's a - 10 and this whole "league" shit is toxic waste anyway.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:29 PM on March 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
But I am sad that you feel so bad about yourself now! Are you having the hangover blues, maybe?
Also, I'll take your word for it that maybe this guy looks like a model and you just look like us normal folks look. If that's the case he may have thought you'd be super easy to impress, and get sex out of, and of course the rejection felt doubly shameful to him. He's a ten! A lowly one digit number rejected him! So he felt bad and he tried to make you feel just as bad.
Don't let him win. This guy's a - 10 and this whole "league" shit is toxic waste anyway.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:29 PM on March 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
A few years ago, for work, I interacted with an extremely famous movie star. You totally know this guy. He is truly talented and extremely smart and gut-bustingly funny and breathtakingly charismatic and super famous and he's one of the most attractive humans I've ever seen. He's rich and successful and genetically gifted in brains and overall he's a million leagues "out of my league". He should probably treat me with about as much interest as he'd treat a sparrow begging a crumb of his lunch. He should be intimidating as hell.
Except he isn't, at all.
Because he warmly did everything he could to equalize us.
He introduced himself with a handshake, even though I and every single person in North America definitely recognize him on sight.
In a public environment, he laughed warmly at a joke I made.
He did not interrupt anyone, ever.
When everyone's attention was riveted on him, he graciously shifted their attention to the talent and expertise of the people around him, and told stories that highlighted their achievements.
A few fans rushed over to interact with him while he was busy with something else. Their enthusiasm made them socially awkward and they interrupted him, but he treated them with absolute respect and warmth. He was gracious and friendly and kind with them, gave them his time and attention, laughed at their jokes in a really sincere way, treated them as individuals. After the fans left he could easily have rolled his eyes about them, but he did not, even a little bit, express the frustration he must have felt about their intrusion.
He complimented me on the work I did for his team, sincerely and with specific detail.
And after hearing my name only once, he remembered me hours later, and used my name when he thanked me as he said goodbye.
He made me feel awesome.
He "outranks" nearly every human I've ever met in terms of all the superficial markers of social status- he is more famous, more talented, more charismatic, better looking, better dressed, taller, more athletic, funnier and more famous than almost any other human in North America.
But he did not "pull rank", even for one second. Everyone around him felt big- because he went out of his way to "equalize his rank with theirs", acknowledge their humanity and their actions, and make them feel great. It took quite a bit of work, energy, discipline, and effort for him to be that nice- he must have been tired and maybe wanted to be alone for a minute somewhere in there- but he did it ceaselessly. And from every account I've heard about him, this is his standard, consistent behaviour.
I just want to point this out as another way that high-profile people can behave.
Your guy didn't do that. He instead went out of his way to hurt your feelings and embarrass you, used his social status for evil by making you feel small, and left you feeling shitty days later.
Conclusion- he's an asshole. Whether or not he was actually hitting on you when he asked about your hotel (and my money's on YES), he did not need to make you feel shitty- that's a choice he made.
Someone I respect once said to me, "A great marker of how cool someone is, is how cool they make you feel. Nobody who's genuinely cool will ever deliberately make you feel bad. Cool people try to make sure other people are doing ok. If a person deliberately makes you feel bad- by directly saying or doing something shitty to you, or by excluding you, or otherwise giving off vibes that make you feel shitty, it is literally proof that they are not cool."
Even if you made a mistake about his intentions (and again, you didn't)- he deliberately made you feel bad. That alone means he's an asshole.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 3:20 PM on March 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
Except he isn't, at all.
Because he warmly did everything he could to equalize us.
He introduced himself with a handshake, even though I and every single person in North America definitely recognize him on sight.
In a public environment, he laughed warmly at a joke I made.
He did not interrupt anyone, ever.
When everyone's attention was riveted on him, he graciously shifted their attention to the talent and expertise of the people around him, and told stories that highlighted their achievements.
A few fans rushed over to interact with him while he was busy with something else. Their enthusiasm made them socially awkward and they interrupted him, but he treated them with absolute respect and warmth. He was gracious and friendly and kind with them, gave them his time and attention, laughed at their jokes in a really sincere way, treated them as individuals. After the fans left he could easily have rolled his eyes about them, but he did not, even a little bit, express the frustration he must have felt about their intrusion.
He complimented me on the work I did for his team, sincerely and with specific detail.
And after hearing my name only once, he remembered me hours later, and used my name when he thanked me as he said goodbye.
He made me feel awesome.
He "outranks" nearly every human I've ever met in terms of all the superficial markers of social status- he is more famous, more talented, more charismatic, better looking, better dressed, taller, more athletic, funnier and more famous than almost any other human in North America.
But he did not "pull rank", even for one second. Everyone around him felt big- because he went out of his way to "equalize his rank with theirs", acknowledge their humanity and their actions, and make them feel great. It took quite a bit of work, energy, discipline, and effort for him to be that nice- he must have been tired and maybe wanted to be alone for a minute somewhere in there- but he did it ceaselessly. And from every account I've heard about him, this is his standard, consistent behaviour.
I just want to point this out as another way that high-profile people can behave.
Your guy didn't do that. He instead went out of his way to hurt your feelings and embarrass you, used his social status for evil by making you feel small, and left you feeling shitty days later.
Conclusion- he's an asshole. Whether or not he was actually hitting on you when he asked about your hotel (and my money's on YES), he did not need to make you feel shitty- that's a choice he made.
Someone I respect once said to me, "A great marker of how cool someone is, is how cool they make you feel. Nobody who's genuinely cool will ever deliberately make you feel bad. Cool people try to make sure other people are doing ok. If a person deliberately makes you feel bad- by directly saying or doing something shitty to you, or by excluding you, or otherwise giving off vibes that make you feel shitty, it is literally proof that they are not cool."
Even if you made a mistake about his intentions (and again, you didn't)- he deliberately made you feel bad. That alone means he's an asshole.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 3:20 PM on March 23, 2016 [38 favorites]
So he wasn't even a conference attendee? He was staff? That makes his question about whether you were staying in that hotel even skeevier; it's not like you two were going to coordinate to go to the same sessions, or meet up for breakfast the next morning.
He was hitting on you. He was pissed that you turned him down. He acted like a baby. The end.
Seriously, good for you!
posted by chainsofreedom at 4:23 PM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
He was hitting on you. He was pissed that you turned him down. He acted like a baby. The end.
Seriously, good for you!
posted by chainsofreedom at 4:23 PM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
It sounds like an awkward misunderstanding and, well, everyone has those from time to time. The good news is, you don't actually care what this guy thinks of you, right? There are moments like this is my life, where still to this day, I look back and cringe if I think about it. But you know what? I don't really care how these people remember me and in all likelihood, they do not remember these moments or think about them.
He should've been able to laugh off whatever you said, and I do think his reaction sounds more like someone who got rejected than someone who was just looking for interesting conversation at a party.
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:34 PM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
He should've been able to laugh off whatever you said, and I do think his reaction sounds more like someone who got rejected than someone who was just looking for interesting conversation at a party.
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:34 PM on March 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Jubey at 2:22 AM on March 23, 2016 [131 favorites]