I paid an illegal move-in fee, now I'm being kicked out. What to do?
March 9, 2016 1:42 PM Subscribe
I'm in Portland, Oregon, and move-in/move-out fees are apparently illegal. I didn't realize this and I paid one. Now I'm being kicked out after living here only eight months. That's fine, but I want to recoup the illegal fees. Tenants rights hotlines are too busy/never call me back. What are my options?
--Them kicking me out is totally legal as far as I can tell - my lease was ending and they gave me 90 days notice. They said it's a no-cause termination as the owners are selling the unit. I'm just going to move out and sign a longer lease at my next place.
--The move-in fee was $350. Move-out fee is $100. They say these fees are "for the building." I am renting a condo from the person who owns it via a property management company and I'm sure the owner has HOA fees, but I don't think the property management company or the owner is allowed to pass those fees onto me.
--I tried several times to contact the Community Alliance of Tenants and a legal aid hotline for renters and neither answers the phone or returns my messages.
--How can I demand these fees back? I could withhold them from my rent, but then I'm scared they will refuse to give me back my security deposit, which was a whopping $1575. I really can't afford to lose that deposit. For that reason, I'm not sure that would be smart.
--For $450, would asking a lawyer for help here even be worth it? Are there lawyers who would help for free? (I'm not exactly poor or disadvantaged, so this isn't a case of discrimination or serious hardship.) I'm mostly ticked off that I paid these illegal fees and they're kicking me out so quickly, forcing me to move again, which is itself a huge cost. Should I just get over it and move on?
--Them kicking me out is totally legal as far as I can tell - my lease was ending and they gave me 90 days notice. They said it's a no-cause termination as the owners are selling the unit. I'm just going to move out and sign a longer lease at my next place.
--The move-in fee was $350. Move-out fee is $100. They say these fees are "for the building." I am renting a condo from the person who owns it via a property management company and I'm sure the owner has HOA fees, but I don't think the property management company or the owner is allowed to pass those fees onto me.
--I tried several times to contact the Community Alliance of Tenants and a legal aid hotline for renters and neither answers the phone or returns my messages.
--How can I demand these fees back? I could withhold them from my rent, but then I'm scared they will refuse to give me back my security deposit, which was a whopping $1575. I really can't afford to lose that deposit. For that reason, I'm not sure that would be smart.
--For $450, would asking a lawyer for help here even be worth it? Are there lawyers who would help for free? (I'm not exactly poor or disadvantaged, so this isn't a case of discrimination or serious hardship.) I'm mostly ticked off that I paid these illegal fees and they're kicking me out so quickly, forcing me to move again, which is itself a huge cost. Should I just get over it and move on?
We did this in your jurisdiction as well....but this was a few years ago; ymmv.
posted by furnace.heart at 2:15 PM on March 9, 2016
posted by furnace.heart at 2:15 PM on March 9, 2016
The Oregon state Bar has a very clear page about deposits and fees (osbar.org). I would first let your landlord know that you know they can't charge these fees. They may back off after that email. But be prepared for them to be dicks.
I would make sure you do a walk trought with them and document the condition so they can't later claim there was damage.
posted by vespabelle at 2:33 PM on March 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would make sure you do a walk trought with them and document the condition so they can't later claim there was damage.
posted by vespabelle at 2:33 PM on March 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Personally, I would probably wait until I'd gotten my security deposit back. Then, I would let request the refund of the illegal fees, and then go to small claims court. I wouldn't bother with a lawyer for this small an amount.
Definitely make sure you document the condition of the condo when you do a walk through. Since they already sound possibly untrustworthy, you want to make sure you're prepared if they try to rip you off when it comes to the security deposit.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:42 PM on March 9, 2016 [23 favorites]
Definitely make sure you document the condition of the condo when you do a walk through. Since they already sound possibly untrustworthy, you want to make sure you're prepared if they try to rip you off when it comes to the security deposit.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:42 PM on March 9, 2016 [23 favorites]
Small claims court is not a bad idea: most people never want to go and then the plaintiff can win a default judgement, and you don't need a lawyer to do it. Plus, since this is illegal on its face, you'd be likely to win anyway. To me this is less about the money and more about sending these jerks a strong legal message.
posted by Strudel at 2:43 PM on March 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Strudel at 2:43 PM on March 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
Another benefit to small claims is that their behavior will then be a part of the public record. Some landlords will offer settlements to prevent this.
posted by rhizome at 3:02 PM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 3:02 PM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
Small Claims. It's easy and fun.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:44 PM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:44 PM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would do sort of the opposite of what litera scripta manet said. I would wait for them to NOT refund your deposit, then take them to small claims for the entire thing.
Small claims judges in the northwest HATE landlords who withhold deposits. And honestly, anyone who pulled this shit is going to try to at least partially. If you were planning on using your deposit to move, start making a backup plan. I've been screwed over by landlords who take overly large deposits more than once. (and have always later found out they did that to other tenants)
--Them kicking me out is totally legal as far as I can tell - my lease was ending and they gave me 90 days notice. They said it's a no-cause termination as the owners are selling the unit. I'm just going to move out and sign a longer lease at my next place.
This... isn't usually true? If you don't have a lease, they're generally allowed to say "hey we don't want to rent this place anymore" with a certain amount of notice. It's only super tenant-protected places like SF that isn't usually true at.
That said, call your local tenants union/tenants right organization and run this by them. I am not an expert in any way on portland tenant law.
posted by emptythought at 6:42 PM on March 9, 2016
Small claims judges in the northwest HATE landlords who withhold deposits. And honestly, anyone who pulled this shit is going to try to at least partially. If you were planning on using your deposit to move, start making a backup plan. I've been screwed over by landlords who take overly large deposits more than once. (and have always later found out they did that to other tenants)
--Them kicking me out is totally legal as far as I can tell - my lease was ending and they gave me 90 days notice. They said it's a no-cause termination as the owners are selling the unit. I'm just going to move out and sign a longer lease at my next place.
This... isn't usually true? If you don't have a lease, they're generally allowed to say "hey we don't want to rent this place anymore" with a certain amount of notice. It's only super tenant-protected places like SF that isn't usually true at.
That said, call your local tenants union/tenants right organization and run this by them. I am not an expert in any way on portland tenant law.
posted by emptythought at 6:42 PM on March 9, 2016
"Small claims judges in the northwest HATE landlords who withhold deposits."
Erm, what? That's, um, not my experience at all. I've written in some detail in the past about trying to get a withheld security deposit back with no success. It was almost unbelievable to me that the judge found in the landlord's favor. He made up fixes that supposedly needed to be made, pulled numbers out of his ass (which all happened to be round), had zero receipts, could not even name a company he'd used for the repairs, and still won. This was in Seattle. Afterwards I did some poking around online and found many similar stories.
If I had it to do over again, I would document the state of the rental with copious amounts of pictures including a dated newspaper.
OP, it sounds totally reasonable to take them to court over their illegal fees, and I hope it works out, but don't bank on it. If it were me, I wouldn't pay the move-out fee. That's $100 that you will definitely still have.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 8:45 PM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
Erm, what? That's, um, not my experience at all. I've written in some detail in the past about trying to get a withheld security deposit back with no success. It was almost unbelievable to me that the judge found in the landlord's favor. He made up fixes that supposedly needed to be made, pulled numbers out of his ass (which all happened to be round), had zero receipts, could not even name a company he'd used for the repairs, and still won. This was in Seattle. Afterwards I did some poking around online and found many similar stories.
If I had it to do over again, I would document the state of the rental with copious amounts of pictures including a dated newspaper.
OP, it sounds totally reasonable to take them to court over their illegal fees, and I hope it works out, but don't bank on it. If it were me, I wouldn't pay the move-out fee. That's $100 that you will definitely still have.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 8:45 PM on March 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
Stop paying and keep living in your unit. Don't pay these people any more money. You'll hang onto your cash, and have a place to live while you find something else. It's highly unlikely that they'll come after you. They have decided to play hardball, play back.
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 12:18 AM on March 10, 2016
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 12:18 AM on March 10, 2016
The main problem with pursuing the matter in small claims court is that the court does not collect the money for you. You have to count on the landlord voluntarily paying you after you win in small claims, or you have to endure further headache in trying to collect on the judgment yourself.
posted by Ardea alba at 7:51 AM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ardea alba at 7:51 AM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: It is generally a very bad idea to withhold rent, and if you do so you are potentially opening yourself up for much more aggressive action from the landlord-- you can still get a 72-hour eviction notice during your 90 day notice window if you're not paying rent. You Do Not want to have an actual eviction (not 90-day no-cause, which is what it sounds like you received) on your rental record-- it would make it very, very difficult to find housing in the current market.
You should send a letter to your landlord stating that you have become aware that the fees you paid are not allowed under Oregon law (and cite the statutes), and asking that the fees be refunded by a specific (reasonable) date. Say something like "if you need to make other arrangements to refund these fees, please contact me by (specific date)". Send the letter with a certificate of mailing, and keep a copy of the letter and the certificate.
posted by Kpele at 9:55 AM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
You should send a letter to your landlord stating that you have become aware that the fees you paid are not allowed under Oregon law (and cite the statutes), and asking that the fees be refunded by a specific (reasonable) date. Say something like "if you need to make other arrangements to refund these fees, please contact me by (specific date)". Send the letter with a certificate of mailing, and keep a copy of the letter and the certificate.
posted by Kpele at 9:55 AM on March 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I'm just going to worry first about getting my full security deposit back when I move out because it's huge, and then I will try to recoup the illegal fees, which are much smaller. I'll update when/if I go for it.
posted by AspirinPill at 3:36 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by AspirinPill at 3:36 PM on March 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Just one track to take.
posted by furnace.heart at 2:13 PM on March 9, 2016 [14 favorites]