UMass Lowell for undergrad in engineering?
March 7, 2016 2:10 PM Subscribe
My daughter was accepted to Northeastern University and UMass Lowell honors program both for engineering. Both schools seem good but Lowell is much, much cheaper. She plans to go on to get her masters so does it make a difference which school she chooses for undergrad? Should she graduate debt free with a bachelor's degree from Lowell and spend the money on her graduate work? Would doing so impact future employment prospects?
Given the current economy, you should encourage her to do ANYTHING she can to graduate debt-free. UMass is a great system.
If she's interested in grad school she should be aggressive about working with her professors and applying for summer programs at other universities to add to her CV/experience. Does she know about the REU (Research Experience for Undergraduates) program? That's how I got paid to spend two summers at Harvard even though I went to a very normal state university. I was able to publish two scientific papers and present at conferences and it was a wonderful experience.
posted by kate blank at 2:42 PM on March 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
If she's interested in grad school she should be aggressive about working with her professors and applying for summer programs at other universities to add to her CV/experience. Does she know about the REU (Research Experience for Undergraduates) program? That's how I got paid to spend two summers at Harvard even though I went to a very normal state university. I was able to publish two scientific papers and present at conferences and it was a wonderful experience.
posted by kate blank at 2:42 PM on March 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
If she doesn't have significant scholarship assistance from Northeastern, I would recommend going to UMass Lowell. Where you went to school matters less in STEM than it does in other fields - people care whether or not you can actually do the thing your degree is in. If Northeastern is about as expensive as my undergrad is now, saving 100K+ in student loans will not be outweighed by some people not thinking that UMass Lowell is as good as Northeastern. If we were talking about MIT/Stanford vs UMass Lowell it might be a different story, because those BIG name schools can open doors. Going to Northeastern won't necessarily open many more doors for her.
The biggest benefit from Northeastern is co-ops. I went to a co-op undergrad as well, and it was absolutely instrumental in being able to get a job, even after grad school. People want to know that you can function in a real company. She can get a similar level of resume step-up from doing summer internships throughout her time at UMass Lowell. I would also recommend looking into taking a semester or two break from school and doing a long (6 month+) internship or co-op on her own. There are a lot of companies in the Boston area that are open to this. Doing a longer internship/co-op helps build your resume more than a summer internship because you can get more substantial projects from a longer time-frame.
posted by permiechickie at 2:46 PM on March 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
The biggest benefit from Northeastern is co-ops. I went to a co-op undergrad as well, and it was absolutely instrumental in being able to get a job, even after grad school. People want to know that you can function in a real company. She can get a similar level of resume step-up from doing summer internships throughout her time at UMass Lowell. I would also recommend looking into taking a semester or two break from school and doing a long (6 month+) internship or co-op on her own. There are a lot of companies in the Boston area that are open to this. Doing a longer internship/co-op helps build your resume more than a summer internship because you can get more substantial projects from a longer time-frame.
posted by permiechickie at 2:46 PM on March 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
Lowell. Use the savings to help her pay for extra opportunities, like rent or travel to summer internships in expensive cities that will supplement her resume and education.
Reputationally, Northeastern vs. Lowell may matter more locally than nationally.
posted by charlielxxv at 2:47 PM on March 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Reputationally, Northeastern vs. Lowell may matter more locally than nationally.
posted by charlielxxv at 2:47 PM on March 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lowell.
Lowell is going through large rebranding efforts and has received some massive gifts in recent years to help attract students like your daughter to raise the profile of UMass Lowell to the levels that other UMass schools already have.
The benefit of NEU is that it does have an excellent and established co-op program, but as to whether she can reap the benefits of that against her college debt from going there is anyone's guess.
But if this were me choosing, I'd go with Lowell hands down.
posted by zizzle at 2:51 PM on March 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lowell is going through large rebranding efforts and has received some massive gifts in recent years to help attract students like your daughter to raise the profile of UMass Lowell to the levels that other UMass schools already have.
The benefit of NEU is that it does have an excellent and established co-op program, but as to whether she can reap the benefits of that against her college debt from going there is anyone's guess.
But if this were me choosing, I'd go with Lowell hands down.
posted by zizzle at 2:51 PM on March 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Lowell. NEU, while solid, isn't MIT/Stanford level in which case would be worth the debt - not to mention that she would probably be getting more aid from a more highly ranked school. Given that your daughter may be staring down the barrel of a gun that is 200K+ in debt were she to go to NEU, it's not clear that that extra $$$ is necessarily going to translate into higher earnings down the road. Let's say, hypothetically, that she went to NEU over Lowell, didn't do a master's and got, say, through a co-op experience, a job that paid 10K/year - hell, even 20K - more than the job she would've gotten by going to Lowell instead - the NEU premium still wouldn't be worth it. Where she chooses to do her master's will matter far more, and there will be opportunities - like RA- or TA-ships or even fellowships - to defray the cost of a master's.
She might even decide in college that a master's - or the field of engineering, in fact - just isn't for her. Not having that debt hanging over her head will give her far more flexibility in choosing what she wants to do next - especially if your daughter feels that, after giving it a shot, engineering isn't what she wants to do, which is a very real possibility given the attrition rates in engineering programs.
posted by un petit cadeau at 3:20 PM on March 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
She might even decide in college that a master's - or the field of engineering, in fact - just isn't for her. Not having that debt hanging over her head will give her far more flexibility in choosing what she wants to do next - especially if your daughter feels that, after giving it a shot, engineering isn't what she wants to do, which is a very real possibility given the attrition rates in engineering programs.
posted by un petit cadeau at 3:20 PM on March 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Northeastern has exactly one advantage, which is that it is actually IN Boston so it would be easier to network with professionals and work part time during school. Absolutely not worth 100K though.
She should see if she can get her BS and MS in 4.5 or 5 years through Lowell though. That requires a lot of determination and hard work, but it can end up saving a lot of time and money.
posted by miyabo at 3:24 PM on March 7, 2016
She should see if she can get her BS and MS in 4.5 or 5 years through Lowell though. That requires a lot of determination and hard work, but it can end up saving a lot of time and money.
posted by miyabo at 3:24 PM on March 7, 2016
Anecdotally, I took one graduate level course in electrical engineering at Northeastern, and was really surprised to find myself in a room of 50+ people where I was the only woman. In a class of 15 -- sure, it happens, no big deal. But in that large a room it was very strange and alienating. I would recommend your daughter take a close look at the gender statistics of her intended major and the engineering program as a whole at both schools, and compare them to the national averages. Not to be discouraging! But some programs are definitely having more success than others at closing the gender gap, and you should weigh it in your decision. Access to engineering-specific women's programs and social clubs impacts your career network.
Whether being in Boston proper for internships is worth the price difference, I think it is heavily dependent on both her specific major and the amount of total debt after graduating.
posted by fbo at 4:40 PM on March 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Whether being in Boston proper for internships is worth the price difference, I think it is heavily dependent on both her specific major and the amount of total debt after graduating.
posted by fbo at 4:40 PM on March 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
I didn't go to Northeastern, but I went to a similarly expensive school in the Boston area because it was the "best" school I got into. Not worth it.
Most of my classmates have tons of debt, and many were unemployed after graduation. I was also unemployed for a long while after I graduated, and the only reason I have a job is that my alma mater hired me.
Go with the cheaper school, and do the REU thing. Tell her to focus on building a portfolio she can show to future employers. That's what really matters.
posted by topoisomerase at 7:47 PM on March 7, 2016
Most of my classmates have tons of debt, and many were unemployed after graduation. I was also unemployed for a long while after I graduated, and the only reason I have a job is that my alma mater hired me.
Go with the cheaper school, and do the REU thing. Tell her to focus on building a portfolio she can show to future employers. That's what really matters.
posted by topoisomerase at 7:47 PM on March 7, 2016
What's the average time to degree in each program? How many students actually finish?
posted by yarntheory at 7:56 PM on March 7, 2016
posted by yarntheory at 7:56 PM on March 7, 2016
If you were deciding between, say, Tufts and Lowell, I'd recommend the former despite the price because of small class sizes, reputation, and dedicated faculty. But Northeastern is ridiculously commercial. Their class sizes are as large as state schools, and they hire underpaid and overworked lecturers to teach most courses, not full time faculty. That said, the tenure track faculty that they've hired recently are very good. As others have said, companies would be more familiar with Northeastern, but if she's planning to get her masters, no, it does NOT matter where she goes for undergrad, as long as she does well.
posted by redlines at 8:02 PM on March 7, 2016
posted by redlines at 8:02 PM on March 7, 2016
I believe my tech company would treat degrees from Northeastern and UMass-Lowell as basically equivalent.
posted by Jasper Fnorde at 8:14 PM on March 7, 2016
posted by Jasper Fnorde at 8:14 PM on March 7, 2016
Yes to Lowell! My cousin graduated from Ohio State with zero debt, and now she's finishing up her engineering Ph.D. at MIT. It really is about the internships and independent studies your daughter does, and she can do them without Northeastern's insanely expensive program. (Apparently some co-op employers pay, but I wouldn't bank on that offsetting the degree cost.)
Personally, I'm so thankful for my state school education. So many of my friends and coworkers are stressed or panicked about their crushing private school debt. Your daughter can avoid their fate!
posted by jessca84 at 1:05 AM on March 8, 2016
Personally, I'm so thankful for my state school education. So many of my friends and coworkers are stressed or panicked about their crushing private school debt. Your daughter can avoid their fate!
posted by jessca84 at 1:05 AM on March 8, 2016
I do want to pop back in to point out that engineering co-ops and internships are pretty much always paid (versus those in other, especially creative, fields, which the NEU co-op website is taking into account as co-ops there are done across the university's degrees), and often paid fairly well, and engineering graduate degrees can typically be had for the price of being a research or teaching assistant. So as degrees you spend money on go, engineering isn't a terrible one to take out some reasonable loans for. (You haven't indicated the extent of the loans she would need to take out, or whether you've investigated scholarships and other options yet... but $25k in loans is obviously really different from $200k in loans)
But I managed to graduate debt-free under some unique circumstances and when I went to look for jobs, it really did have an impact on the freedom I felt to take the job I really wanted rather than the one that would pay the most and help pay back loans the fastest. It's hard to look 4-5 years out and see what the economy and tech industry will be like, but this also applies if she's ever interested in the startup thing; it's a lot easier to agree to a smaller salary and equity when you don't have massive loans hanging over your head.
posted by olinerd at 1:29 AM on March 8, 2016
But I managed to graduate debt-free under some unique circumstances and when I went to look for jobs, it really did have an impact on the freedom I felt to take the job I really wanted rather than the one that would pay the most and help pay back loans the fastest. It's hard to look 4-5 years out and see what the economy and tech industry will be like, but this also applies if she's ever interested in the startup thing; it's a lot easier to agree to a smaller salary and equity when you don't have massive loans hanging over your head.
posted by olinerd at 1:29 AM on March 8, 2016
Overall: UMass Lowell. In my opinion, UMass Lowell has some objectively amazing materials science/engineering programs, and in general is reputationally equivalent to Northeastern.
More details:
I did my undergrad in my home and native land of Canada. Then I came to the US to get my masters and PhD in mechanical engineering at a large, well-known institute of technology in the Northeast. In some ways, I benefited from being a bigger fish in a smaller pond. But honestly, I picked the school that was most economical. My undergrad alma mater was 10x cheaper than a comparable US school, and had highly-paid internships.
After grad school I worked at a tech startup in the Boston area, and helped hire for the engineering team. This included BS, MS and PhD level engineers.
When I was reviewing applications, I cared way more about the cool extracurriculars than actual name recognition of the school. I think a portfolio showing some badass undergrad research is more eye-catching than the name of the school. Candidates stood out more as the "built his own electric bike from scrap" applicant, or "the young lady who solo-trekked from Egypt to South Africa" than the applicants with perfect GPAs from internationally known schools who had no interests or hobbies. I think being well-rounded says a lot about a candidate.
Why does this matter?
I think that your daughter should choose whichever school she feels most comfortable at, then engage her passion for engineering in every way she can think of. And remember when looking for "comfortable", that student debt is very uncomfortable.
One last thing to note, many graduate programs in engineering are paid, including tuition. My research assistantships covered all my tuition and a living stipend.
Good luck to you and her, and feel free to MeMail me.
posted by KevCed at 7:25 AM on March 8, 2016
More details:
I did my undergrad in my home and native land of Canada. Then I came to the US to get my masters and PhD in mechanical engineering at a large, well-known institute of technology in the Northeast. In some ways, I benefited from being a bigger fish in a smaller pond. But honestly, I picked the school that was most economical. My undergrad alma mater was 10x cheaper than a comparable US school, and had highly-paid internships.
After grad school I worked at a tech startup in the Boston area, and helped hire for the engineering team. This included BS, MS and PhD level engineers.
When I was reviewing applications, I cared way more about the cool extracurriculars than actual name recognition of the school. I think a portfolio showing some badass undergrad research is more eye-catching than the name of the school. Candidates stood out more as the "built his own electric bike from scrap" applicant, or "the young lady who solo-trekked from Egypt to South Africa" than the applicants with perfect GPAs from internationally known schools who had no interests or hobbies. I think being well-rounded says a lot about a candidate.
Why does this matter?
I think that your daughter should choose whichever school she feels most comfortable at, then engage her passion for engineering in every way she can think of. And remember when looking for "comfortable", that student debt is very uncomfortable.
One last thing to note, many graduate programs in engineering are paid, including tuition. My research assistantships covered all my tuition and a living stipend.
Good luck to you and her, and feel free to MeMail me.
posted by KevCed at 7:25 AM on March 8, 2016
Cattily, those who can do -- co-ops, internships, and the like. If she has to fall back on the name on her diploma, a lot of people who k ow what Northeastern is will still remember what it was like ten or twenty years ago.
Go for the place with the best aid, when those are the two choices.
(ObDisc: father of four, working in .edu, losing sleep about tuition & fees.)
posted by wenestvedt at 4:16 PM on March 8, 2016
Go for the place with the best aid, when those are the two choices.
(ObDisc: father of four, working in .edu, losing sleep about tuition & fees.)
posted by wenestvedt at 4:16 PM on March 8, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by olinerd at 2:38 PM on March 7, 2016 [3 favorites]