My guy does not like dogs the same. Comments? Advice?
February 28, 2016 6:43 PM Subscribe
My new guy does not like dogs the same way I do. Mainly he believes large dogs should be outside at all times because then if they poop he doesn't have to clean up large poop. He states he's a dog lover.
Starting a relationship. We don't want to beat around the bush. One of the things we talked about was dogs.
My new guy says he loves dogs and currently lives with his family who own a small dog and large dog. He states that little dogs are okay to be inside, but big dogs need to stay outside because they produce large poop. Little dogs inside, large dogs outside. He sees little dogs as companion animals and large dogs as working dogs who stay outside and guard the house. I have large dogs myself and told him an animal should be allowed the option of being inside regardless of its size, though I'm not against leaving a misbehaving or vomiting dog outside. He states he might willing to change about the inside-outside dog thing if he falls in love and rather I get a small dog if I need a dog inside.
I also have an 5 month puppy:
He seemed very annoyed and tired one morning when my 5 month large puppy woke him up from his slumber by pawing the bed. He does not want the dog on our dates but is willing to go hiking with us. I told him I am trying to spend more time with the pup as she's so young. I admit I could train her better to not lick, jump, and paw but at the same time I feel some credit should be given for her age.
We don't love dogs the same way, especially large dogs. Should I worry? I'm a little bothered by his rationale. I am not sure he's a dog person though he says he is. Or see how I can compromise? He was not referencing my puppy in terms of poop as his large dog is mainly outside as well.
Starting a relationship. We don't want to beat around the bush. One of the things we talked about was dogs.
My new guy says he loves dogs and currently lives with his family who own a small dog and large dog. He states that little dogs are okay to be inside, but big dogs need to stay outside because they produce large poop. Little dogs inside, large dogs outside. He sees little dogs as companion animals and large dogs as working dogs who stay outside and guard the house. I have large dogs myself and told him an animal should be allowed the option of being inside regardless of its size, though I'm not against leaving a misbehaving or vomiting dog outside. He states he might willing to change about the inside-outside dog thing if he falls in love and rather I get a small dog if I need a dog inside.
I also have an 5 month puppy:
He seemed very annoyed and tired one morning when my 5 month large puppy woke him up from his slumber by pawing the bed. He does not want the dog on our dates but is willing to go hiking with us. I told him I am trying to spend more time with the pup as she's so young. I admit I could train her better to not lick, jump, and paw but at the same time I feel some credit should be given for her age.
We don't love dogs the same way, especially large dogs. Should I worry? I'm a little bothered by his rationale. I am not sure he's a dog person though he says he is. Or see how I can compromise? He was not referencing my puppy in terms of poop as his large dog is mainly outside as well.
If it bothers you and you suspect he is not being honest, then yes, it is valid. No dog should be pooping in the house and you DO have to pick it up (I guess unless you want your yard to get super gross and never go on walks). So yes, I would agree that his explanation doesn't make the most sense.
Everyone has different comfort levels with pets.
The real thing is that you don't think he's being honest. I would not place a bet on a relationship where those feelings existed, especially early on.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 6:51 PM on February 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Everyone has different comfort levels with pets.
The real thing is that you don't think he's being honest. I would not place a bet on a relationship where those feelings existed, especially early on.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 6:51 PM on February 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
This has nothing to do with dogs. This guy sounds weird and controlling and like he will endlessly come up with arcane and totally unecessary rules for life that really make no sense. Normal people are not like this. He may also have a tendency to defend his family and Their Way that could be troubling.
Dude sounds regimented and unwilling to compromise. Dude doesn't care about your happiness. Life's too short for that.
Also, whoa, what is this:
"He states he might willing to change about the inside-outside dog thing if he falls in love and rather I get a small dog if I need a dog inside."
If he falls in love with you? Or with the dog??
posted by quincunx at 6:55 PM on February 28, 2016 [59 favorites]
Dude sounds regimented and unwilling to compromise. Dude doesn't care about your happiness. Life's too short for that.
Also, whoa, what is this:
"He states he might willing to change about the inside-outside dog thing if he falls in love and rather I get a small dog if I need a dog inside."
If he falls in love with you? Or with the dog??
posted by quincunx at 6:55 PM on February 28, 2016 [59 favorites]
Does he thinks dogs poop indoors? That's weird. The rationale of big poop vs small poop is even weirder. It's not his call if you keep your pets inside. It's not his call what kind of dogs you have. Don't let him move in. These are red flags.
posted by asockpuppet at 6:56 PM on February 28, 2016 [53 favorites]
posted by asockpuppet at 6:56 PM on February 28, 2016 [53 favorites]
I'm confused because it sounds like at least one of you thinks dogs should be pooping inside, which is not something most dogs of any size are really keen to do in my experience.
But as someone in a relationship with two different dog-related attitudes, it comes up more and has caused more conflict than I would have anticipated. If this is important to you it might be a deal breaker.
posted by town of cats at 6:57 PM on February 28, 2016 [38 favorites]
But as someone in a relationship with two different dog-related attitudes, it comes up more and has caused more conflict than I would have anticipated. If this is important to you it might be a deal breaker.
posted by town of cats at 6:57 PM on February 28, 2016 [38 favorites]
I don't understand why indoor poop comes into it. Dogs are easily trained to poop during walks or out in the yard, and there are implements to pick poop up from sidewalks and gardens. Does either of you plan to let dogs poop wherever, and never pick it up?!
If he is grossed out by picking up big dog poop even with a poop scooper, that would be a problem that you need to discuss, since otherwise it would always fall on you. Would you be OK with that arrangement?
Honestly, it seems this is more 'I think dogs should be outdoors unless they are more like cats' (not that small dogs are like cats, but some people seem to think that). Doesn't matter if he likes dogs in principle, he will always be uncomfortable with big dogs around the house. For me this would be a dealbreaker.
posted by miorita at 6:59 PM on February 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
If he is grossed out by picking up big dog poop even with a poop scooper, that would be a problem that you need to discuss, since otherwise it would always fall on you. Would you be OK with that arrangement?
Honestly, it seems this is more 'I think dogs should be outdoors unless they are more like cats' (not that small dogs are like cats, but some people seem to think that). Doesn't matter if he likes dogs in principle, he will always be uncomfortable with big dogs around the house. For me this would be a dealbreaker.
posted by miorita at 6:59 PM on February 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
He's verry uninformed. First of all, well trained healthy dogs don't poop in the house regardless of size. Two, dogs are pack animals and want to be with their people. It's cruel to leave them outside all the time. Three, not picking up poop outside is unsanitary for you humans and your pets and encourages them eating it to keep their "den" clean.
posted by cecic at 7:00 PM on February 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by cecic at 7:00 PM on February 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
What? No size dog should be pooping in the house. And any size poop should be picked up in the yard. More importantly, this guy sounds like no fun at all.
posted by HotToddy at 7:15 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 7:15 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I have a small, ~20lb dog who takes craps so massive my brother with two pit bulls regularly comments on it when he takes him for a walk. Small stature is no guarantee of a low poop existence.
I do agree with your boyfriend that large poops don't belong in the house, and I don't know of any poop larger than a dude who acts controlling and weird about things that make you happy.
posted by phunniemee at 7:19 PM on February 28, 2016 [22 favorites]
I do agree with your boyfriend that large poops don't belong in the house, and I don't know of any poop larger than a dude who acts controlling and weird about things that make you happy.
posted by phunniemee at 7:19 PM on February 28, 2016 [22 favorites]
"He does not want the dog on our dates but is willing to go hiking with us. "
I'm going to say you have very different expectations for the dogs in your lives and may not be compatible.
posted by TheAdamist at 7:25 PM on February 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
I'm going to say you have very different expectations for the dogs in your lives and may not be compatible.
posted by TheAdamist at 7:25 PM on February 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
Yes, worry. Dogs are important to you. They don't seem important to him. I wouldn't call that a small area of disagreement.
posted by Glinn at 7:25 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 7:25 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Um no, I do not want dog poop in my house. That would be hard and unsanitary. I pick up so much dog poop on my walks, having to pick it off the floor would be insufferable. My dogs do not crap in the house. They tell me to go open the door for them. Dogs should can be trained to not poop in the house. If they're sick, they might poo in the house and in that case I think they should be excused. That only happened once and I took them to the vet and they were okay within a day.
As for doggy-door, I brought that option up and he states that will ruin the resale value of the house. He's saying he's being fair because when he gets his German Shepard, she will be a guard dog that lives outside only. As for me, I can have my large dog inside, but any poop, even if she is sick means she's out. Also I am okay to sneak the dog in if he's away from home without him knowing. So this is where we last left off.
I suppose I have nothing to be afraid of since my dogs do not poop in the house. Just a bit taken back. Not used to dating someone with a different pet comfort level and "rules".
=/
Also it sounds to me, from this posting this is a real issue and perhaps not something I should compromise.
posted by LadyAerin at 7:35 PM on February 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
As for doggy-door, I brought that option up and he states that will ruin the resale value of the house. He's saying he's being fair because when he gets his German Shepard, she will be a guard dog that lives outside only. As for me, I can have my large dog inside, but any poop, even if she is sick means she's out. Also I am okay to sneak the dog in if he's away from home without him knowing. So this is where we last left off.
I suppose I have nothing to be afraid of since my dogs do not poop in the house. Just a bit taken back. Not used to dating someone with a different pet comfort level and "rules".
=/
Also it sounds to me, from this posting this is a real issue and perhaps not something I should compromise.
posted by LadyAerin at 7:35 PM on February 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Resale value? Does he understand that replacing a door is ... cheaper than a German shepherd dog? Why does he need a guard dog? He sounds irrational, or else he lives in a house with solid gold doors, which would explain several things, including why opening a door to let a dog out seems daunting (so heavy!)
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:44 PM on February 28, 2016 [70 favorites]
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:44 PM on February 28, 2016 [70 favorites]
A doggy door will ruin the resale value of the house? That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. Doors can be replaced if necessary, unless you’re putting a doggy door in the roof I’m not understanding this.
posted by bongo_x at 7:45 PM on February 28, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by bongo_x at 7:45 PM on February 28, 2016 [21 favorites]
Is this guy worth it? I'm incredibly skeptical.. this attitude on his part does not bode well for a future relationship from my perspective. I think you'll be much happier with a man that loves your dog as much as you do.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:50 PM on February 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by lunastellasol at 7:50 PM on February 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
There are lots of legitimate reasons not to leave dogs outside: dogs are pack animals and most would rather be inside with the family; they are vulnerable to the elements just like we are; and in some areas, outdoor dogs (especially puppies) can be stolen to use as bait dogs. Especially if you have a puppy, it's important to have her inside for training. I would not budge on this.
OTOH, I don't really blame him for getting annoyed by being woken up early. I am kind of a Crazy Dog Lady and even I get annoyed when my dog wakes me up!
I think the big thing is whether or not you can compromise. Like someone upthread mentioned a dog door. That is a great compromise. So is leaving her home when you go out but going on hikes together with her.
But if he keeps harping on this, or wants you to do things you're not comfortable with in terms of your dog (well, actually this applies to all areas of a relationship!), and isn't willing to compromise, it may not work out.
Oh one other thing: I have noticed that there are a significant number of people who say they love dogs but get annoyed when dogs actually act like (well-behaved) dogs. I suspect this is because it's not really socially acceptable to say you don't love dogs. I have a friend who grew up in a family with a similar attitude towards dogs to your boyfriends'. He gets SUPER annoyed when my friendly dog does basically anything besides lie or sit down. But still claims he loves dogs. Whatever.
posted by lunasol at 7:52 PM on February 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
OTOH, I don't really blame him for getting annoyed by being woken up early. I am kind of a Crazy Dog Lady and even I get annoyed when my dog wakes me up!
I think the big thing is whether or not you can compromise. Like someone upthread mentioned a dog door. That is a great compromise. So is leaving her home when you go out but going on hikes together with her.
But if he keeps harping on this, or wants you to do things you're not comfortable with in terms of your dog (well, actually this applies to all areas of a relationship!), and isn't willing to compromise, it may not work out.
Oh one other thing: I have noticed that there are a significant number of people who say they love dogs but get annoyed when dogs actually act like (well-behaved) dogs. I suspect this is because it's not really socially acceptable to say you don't love dogs. I have a friend who grew up in a family with a similar attitude towards dogs to your boyfriends'. He gets SUPER annoyed when my friendly dog does basically anything besides lie or sit down. But still claims he loves dogs. Whatever.
posted by lunasol at 7:52 PM on February 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
1. This guy is crazy pants, run away now.
2. It's also possible that you two are just really young and this guy doesn't have a great handle on life yet, but still, just find somebody else who's like "dogs inside? YEAH OF COURSE THEY ARE FRIENDS WHO LIVE INSIDE WITH US."
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 7:53 PM on February 28, 2016 [29 favorites]
2. It's also possible that you two are just really young and this guy doesn't have a great handle on life yet, but still, just find somebody else who's like "dogs inside? YEAH OF COURSE THEY ARE FRIENDS WHO LIVE INSIDE WITH US."
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 7:53 PM on February 28, 2016 [29 favorites]
As for doggy-door, I brought that option up and he states that will ruin the resale value of the house. He's saying he's being fair because when he gets his German Shepard, she will be a guard dog that lives outside only. As for me, I can have my large dog inside, but any poop, even if she is sick means she's out.
Doors are actually not that expensive compared to a lifelong relationship. Your guy sounds weird. It's fine to have whatever particular feeling you want about dogs but basically "One false move and your indoor dog will be forced to live outdoors" is sort of bullshit. Why does he get to set the terms for future house rules, or is this about your dog at his place?
You guys don't really sound able to compromise on this at this point. To me someone who doesn't treat pets like "one of the family/household" is a bad fit with me regardless of how reasonable their choices and feelings may be for them personally. This early in a relationship is, to me, to soon to be making future threats which is what this guy's statements sound like to me.
posted by jessamyn at 7:54 PM on February 28, 2016 [36 favorites]
Doors are actually not that expensive compared to a lifelong relationship. Your guy sounds weird. It's fine to have whatever particular feeling you want about dogs but basically "One false move and your indoor dog will be forced to live outdoors" is sort of bullshit. Why does he get to set the terms for future house rules, or is this about your dog at his place?
You guys don't really sound able to compromise on this at this point. To me someone who doesn't treat pets like "one of the family/household" is a bad fit with me regardless of how reasonable their choices and feelings may be for them personally. This early in a relationship is, to me, to soon to be making future threats which is what this guy's statements sound like to me.
posted by jessamyn at 7:54 PM on February 28, 2016 [36 favorites]
This is not about dog poop at all.
posted by asockpuppet at 8:02 PM on February 28, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by asockpuppet at 8:02 PM on February 28, 2016 [29 favorites]
when he gets his German Shepard, she will be a guard dog that lives outside only. As for me, I can have my large dog inside, but any poop, even if she is sick means she's out. Also I am okay to sneak the dog in if he's away from home without him knowing.
How new is this relationship? He still lives at home yet he's already operating on the assumption that he is going to move into YOUR house and tell you how things are going to be.
posted by asockpuppet at 8:08 PM on February 28, 2016 [72 favorites]
How new is this relationship? He still lives at home yet he's already operating on the assumption that he is going to move into YOUR house and tell you how things are going to be.
posted by asockpuppet at 8:08 PM on February 28, 2016 [72 favorites]
Why does he get a say in what you do to your own home? Also I would not really want to be with anyone who thought that outdoor-only dogs were appropriate in anything but a working farm environment, especially when there are other dogs that are allowed inside.
honestly he sounds like a bit of a tool and his excuses for why he should he get his way but you shouldn't get yours are ridiculous.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:18 PM on February 28, 2016 [37 favorites]
honestly he sounds like a bit of a tool and his excuses for why he should he get his way but you shouldn't get yours are ridiculous.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:18 PM on February 28, 2016 [37 favorites]
I really don't like dogs, and I think that you are overindulgent with your dog. But even I think your boyfriend is crazy pants - and also your two styles of dog-loving are going to be in conflict. It sounds like whatever he decides has to happen, which is weird, it's your house. Just tell him no. If its a deal-breaker, best know now.
posted by Toddles at 8:20 PM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 8:20 PM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Your dog is 5 months now. What happens when the dog is 12 or 13 and is too healthy to consider euthanasia but may lapse in housebreaking at times. This happens with old dogs. Does he know this? Is he going to throw your senior dog out the backdoor for this? Insist you put it down? God please tell me he's not the type that punishes dogs for that. It's counterproductive and cruel.
posted by asockpuppet at 8:21 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by asockpuppet at 8:21 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah I don't understand why dog poop size comes into it at all, since no matter the size of the dog, they will poop outside. This guy seems a little off from your description, for various reasons.
Leaving that aside, though, you still might not be compatible. I am not a dog person myself, and have recently realized that I'm not really compatible with people whose dogs are really important to them and huge parts of their lives. I don't enjoy interacting with dogs, I don't like the way they smell and how much affection they want, and I sometimes kind of resent the time and inconvenience required to take care of them. So if I were to start spending a lot of time around someone with dogs, neither of us would be very happy. I'd also never dream of asking someone else to choose between their beloved pets (or anything else that's important to them) and me, so it makes more sense to just not even get in that situation to begin with.
posted by rhiannonstone at 8:27 PM on February 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
Leaving that aside, though, you still might not be compatible. I am not a dog person myself, and have recently realized that I'm not really compatible with people whose dogs are really important to them and huge parts of their lives. I don't enjoy interacting with dogs, I don't like the way they smell and how much affection they want, and I sometimes kind of resent the time and inconvenience required to take care of them. So if I were to start spending a lot of time around someone with dogs, neither of us would be very happy. I'd also never dream of asking someone else to choose between their beloved pets (or anything else that's important to them) and me, so it makes more sense to just not even get in that situation to begin with.
posted by rhiannonstone at 8:27 PM on February 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
There are definitely people who grow up with attitudes about pets and the right way to treat them that will clash with someone from another culture. I love my Italian tutor to pieces but he (and his American wife) have a small fluffy dog inside and a larger dog that lives outside and he wrinkled his nose when I showed him a photo of my mom's boxer lying next to her on the sofa. I think these sorts of conflicts, as minor as they may seem to non-pet people, actually has the potential to be a big divisive issue. Add to that one person assuming that their rules are the only possible way to address a situation, and I think there is a big relationship issue brewing here.
posted by PussKillian at 8:31 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by PussKillian at 8:31 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Since your question was "should I worry" and not "how should we deal with this," I think the answer is easier: Yes, this is worth worrying about and taking seriously. I think it's very similar to making sure you're on the same page about parenting with a partner that you're going to raise a child with. If your views about pets are incompatible and neither of you is willing to compromise, that could potentially be a relationship-ender. You said this is a new relationship, so if you're planning to keep it casual for a while, it may not be something you need to deal with yet -- but once you're getting to the point where your pets are affecting each other's lives, you need to make sure that your significant other and your pets are on board with each other.
posted by chickenmagazine at 8:39 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by chickenmagazine at 8:39 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
This guy has weird ideas about dogs and I kinda wish you had to take a test to get one. "My German Shepherd will live outdoors as a guard dog" makes me feel like he shouldn't be allowed to have dangerous objects like scissors.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:41 PM on February 28, 2016 [60 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:41 PM on February 28, 2016 [60 favorites]
It might be an incompatibility. I'll offer you my feelings about dogs, if that helps. I like dogs in general. Dogs tend to dig me. I loved the (small) dogs I owned, with all my heart. I think dogs should live inside, because yes, they're pack animals, it's totally mean to keep them outside on their own. (Exception: the dog is somewhere with a year-round temperate climate, has a bunch of other dogs to hang out and sleep with in comfort, is actually a working dog and likes it that way, etc.)
But despite all that, imo, all dogs are kind of gross, compared to people. Most people don't leave obvious dander around or slobber on clothes and exposed skin. Most people don't eat, puke, and then eat their puke. I can tolerate the limited slobber, dander, damage to objects while untrained, puke, etc. a smaller dog (that I'd own) might make. I don't mind their slurping at the water bowl, because it's quietish. They're less physically demanding in terms of training. It's a quantity thing.
Don't mind visiting the homes of owners of big, trained dogs, especially when the place is big enough that the dog doesn't feel like a horse, and we aren't tripping over each other when we pass on the stairs or in the hall. Enjoy visiting less if it's more of a horse situation. Really dislike spending extended amounts of time in small spaces with big, untrained dogs. Dislike hanging out with big, untrained dogs in any situation, really, because it's annoying when they jump on you (in the morning, any time you enter the house, whenever they feel like it..). As a guest, I don't enjoy being pulled into training exercises in the middle of a conversation (which can happen with smaller dogs, but it's less of a production, usually).
tl;dr - If you have a small space and a big, untrained dog, I wouldn't want to be your roommate. I would not ask that the dog be kept outside. I just wouldn't want to live with you. (Medium to large space, I could maybe be persuaded, if the dog were really well trained. Perhaps your partner could be so persuaded, given conditions that are amenable to him.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:45 PM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
But despite all that, imo, all dogs are kind of gross, compared to people. Most people don't leave obvious dander around or slobber on clothes and exposed skin. Most people don't eat, puke, and then eat their puke. I can tolerate the limited slobber, dander, damage to objects while untrained, puke, etc. a smaller dog (that I'd own) might make. I don't mind their slurping at the water bowl, because it's quietish. They're less physically demanding in terms of training. It's a quantity thing.
Don't mind visiting the homes of owners of big, trained dogs, especially when the place is big enough that the dog doesn't feel like a horse, and we aren't tripping over each other when we pass on the stairs or in the hall. Enjoy visiting less if it's more of a horse situation. Really dislike spending extended amounts of time in small spaces with big, untrained dogs. Dislike hanging out with big, untrained dogs in any situation, really, because it's annoying when they jump on you (in the morning, any time you enter the house, whenever they feel like it..). As a guest, I don't enjoy being pulled into training exercises in the middle of a conversation (which can happen with smaller dogs, but it's less of a production, usually).
tl;dr - If you have a small space and a big, untrained dog, I wouldn't want to be your roommate. I would not ask that the dog be kept outside. I just wouldn't want to live with you. (Medium to large space, I could maybe be persuaded, if the dog were really well trained. Perhaps your partner could be so persuaded, given conditions that are amenable to him.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:45 PM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
He's saying he's being fair because when he gets his German Shepard, she will be a guard dog that lives outside only.
That's not how protection dogs work.... while some breeds do live outside primarily as guard dogs that's usually on larger properties (livestock dogs and such) most guard dogs work "shifts" and live normal dog lives the rest of the time. Maybe in a kennel if they're part of a big operation but they require a TON of training time and one on one time. You don't just get one, stick it in the yard and forget about it.
Besides which- do you want a protection dog living in your yard in suburbia? That's like having a loaded gun in your yard.
Your BF has a weird idea of dogs, maybe he was not raised to see them as pets and that's fine. But working dogs are still animals with social needs, not robots.
posted by fshgrl at 8:49 PM on February 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
That's not how protection dogs work.... while some breeds do live outside primarily as guard dogs that's usually on larger properties (livestock dogs and such) most guard dogs work "shifts" and live normal dog lives the rest of the time. Maybe in a kennel if they're part of a big operation but they require a TON of training time and one on one time. You don't just get one, stick it in the yard and forget about it.
Besides which- do you want a protection dog living in your yard in suburbia? That's like having a loaded gun in your yard.
Your BF has a weird idea of dogs, maybe he was not raised to see them as pets and that's fine. But working dogs are still animals with social needs, not robots.
posted by fshgrl at 8:49 PM on February 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
It sounds like you're in a new relationship and dreaming together about what your life together could be like. A house, some dogs, vacations? This part is supposed to be fun and happy and loose. Although life will eventually mock you for your carefree youth, right now in this young relationship, everything should be hopeful, open to compromise, and even a bit silly. But it's not, because instead of being all "yes, we'll name our Newfoundland Sir Sheds-a-Lot and he'll have his own sofa so we can still snuggle without being drooled on," your guy is all, "I resent your hypothetical dog already and I'd better never see it in the house." Take this as a sign of what's to come! He's not going to get any more accommodating than he is right now! This is his attempt to engage in planning a happy life, and he's upsetting you enough that you asked a bunch of strangers about it. Never mind the dog issue; that's a red herring. The problem is that this guy has no room in his head for you as a real person with wants of your own.
posted by teremala at 8:52 PM on February 28, 2016 [44 favorites]
posted by teremala at 8:52 PM on February 28, 2016 [44 favorites]
Uh, my 25 pound cocker spaniel has some big poops, and because she's a rescue, she sometimes poops inside (in the room where the cat's litter box is. In her before life, she was trained to sit quietly by the door when she needs to go, but we're not always in that room, and then she thinks she should poop outside the litter box, which makes sense.) It's annoying, but we deal with it. She's also a senior dog, so she's not always up for walks, and poops in our yard. That still needs to be cleaned. Dogs need a clean place to poop. If the poop isn't picked up, they won't poop there. Soooo, it's gotta be cleaned up either way.
posted by Ruki at 8:55 PM on February 28, 2016
posted by Ruki at 8:55 PM on February 28, 2016
A working dog works. Spending its entire fucking life in a suburban yard is not a job. Leaving a dog out in heat, freezing cold or flooding is inhumane.
This guy is making up an entire universe you and your family pets have to adhere to so he can avoid picking up shit and providing the exercise a dog needs by walking it.
You might want to find out how he feels about changing diapers well before he needs to make rules for you about that...
posted by DarlingBri at 8:58 PM on February 28, 2016 [37 favorites]
This guy is making up an entire universe you and your family pets have to adhere to so he can avoid picking up shit and providing the exercise a dog needs by walking it.
You might want to find out how he feels about changing diapers well before he needs to make rules for you about that...
posted by DarlingBri at 8:58 PM on February 28, 2016 [37 favorites]
Dump the guy. He's an ass.
posted by Boogiechild at 9:03 PM on February 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Boogiechild at 9:03 PM on February 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
He's not going to get any more accommodating than he is right now!
This.
posted by delight at 9:07 PM on February 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
This.
posted by delight at 9:07 PM on February 28, 2016 [26 favorites]
In most areas, it's just plain cruel to leave a dog out 365 days a year, whether it's due to cold or heat. This guy's mentality would be dealbreaker for me, especially because I'd wonder how much of his attitude might transfer in some ways to parenting. (It's not 100%, but there's an awful lot you can learn about how a person is / will be with small children if you observe them with both types of animals and specific animals they do and do not like.)
posted by stormyteal at 9:09 PM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by stormyteal at 9:09 PM on February 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
This guy sounds weird, creepy, and controlling (and not because of not wanting to live with dogs, which is completely a matter of personal preference). How many other rules for your life is he planning on making up? Exactly how many conditions is he going to place on your being able to do what you want, with him as judge to snatch away things when you "fail" to live up to his standards?
Also: anyone who plans to keep a dog outdoors constantly as a "guard dog" is almost certainly full to the brim of toxic masculinity. He's thinking of the dog as an object to exercise his manliness rather than a fellow-member of the household that deserves care and comfort. I bet he won't want it neutered, either.
My instinct says that this guy has a non-zero possibility of being an abuser, and either way you are better off without him.
posted by praemunire at 9:34 PM on February 28, 2016 [21 favorites]
Also: anyone who plans to keep a dog outdoors constantly as a "guard dog" is almost certainly full to the brim of toxic masculinity. He's thinking of the dog as an object to exercise his manliness rather than a fellow-member of the household that deserves care and comfort. I bet he won't want it neutered, either.
My instinct says that this guy has a non-zero possibility of being an abuser, and either way you are better off without him.
posted by praemunire at 9:34 PM on February 28, 2016 [21 favorites]
He does not want the dog on our dates
I like to consider myself fairly mainstream, but this jumped out at me. I've never heard of a dog being part of a couple's date. Ok, maybe once for something like, "hey, let's go to the dog park" but I don't know what sort of evening dates could involve a dog. The plural of "dates" jumped out at me. If you have your dogs involved in your life to this extent, that's great but someone like me would be a bad fit for you. Your boyfriend sounds like me in this regard - I don't think that makes him weird or abnormal or a jerk. He just doesn't want dogs involved in his life to the same extent you do. That means he might not be a likely long-term prospect for you.
posted by Tanizaki at 9:44 PM on February 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
I like to consider myself fairly mainstream, but this jumped out at me. I've never heard of a dog being part of a couple's date. Ok, maybe once for something like, "hey, let's go to the dog park" but I don't know what sort of evening dates could involve a dog. The plural of "dates" jumped out at me. If you have your dogs involved in your life to this extent, that's great but someone like me would be a bad fit for you. Your boyfriend sounds like me in this regard - I don't think that makes him weird or abnormal or a jerk. He just doesn't want dogs involved in his life to the same extent you do. That means he might not be a likely long-term prospect for you.
posted by Tanizaki at 9:44 PM on February 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
Response by poster: So, no he's not talking about moving my house. He's talking about a future house if we got married and how he would like it.
He doesn't want the dog on dates because it will ruin the romance and create a hassle. That's something I can compromise on since it has a point. So, a hike won't be a date then. The reason it came up is I am trying to socialize my puppy and I think it's okay to take the dog when we go out to eat at a dog friendly place with outdoor patio or dog beach. I would call that a date. That situation has not come up and I guess if it does, I rather spend time with my guy if he does not like the hassle.
I am just getting the feeling this dude's not really chill as I thought originally. I kind of have a feeling of where this is headed, but, I think I'll give it a shot and talk to the guy. I figure it won't hurt to be casual for a little bit more and see what else is drawing me in or throwing me off. This is definitely throwing me off.
Thanks for all the opinions out there, dog lovers or dog observers. Dogs are a lot of work. And yes, they're gross, they lick their butts.
posted by LadyAerin at 10:11 PM on February 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
He doesn't want the dog on dates because it will ruin the romance and create a hassle. That's something I can compromise on since it has a point. So, a hike won't be a date then. The reason it came up is I am trying to socialize my puppy and I think it's okay to take the dog when we go out to eat at a dog friendly place with outdoor patio or dog beach. I would call that a date. That situation has not come up and I guess if it does, I rather spend time with my guy if he does not like the hassle.
I am just getting the feeling this dude's not really chill as I thought originally. I kind of have a feeling of where this is headed, but, I think I'll give it a shot and talk to the guy. I figure it won't hurt to be casual for a little bit more and see what else is drawing me in or throwing me off. This is definitely throwing me off.
Thanks for all the opinions out there, dog lovers or dog observers. Dogs are a lot of work. And yes, they're gross, they lick their butts.
posted by LadyAerin at 10:11 PM on February 28, 2016 [10 favorites]
This would be a deal breaker for me. I have a great Dane. She sleeps inside. On the bed, or next to, no questions. She comes everywhere. I got a dog to have a dog companion not an outside accessory. Ugh.
posted by Marinara at 10:13 PM on February 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Marinara at 10:13 PM on February 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
Wow, I didn't see your first update when I posted originally. This guy sounds extremely controlling or just completely unwilling to take someone else's feelings and opinions seriously. Making a blanket statement that your dog is "out" if she poops inside the house once? What if she's sick? He sounds really rigid and I can't imagine a relationship with him is going to be fun in the long run.
Anyway, this is not the kind of thing that a reasonable person says in a relationship.
posted by lunasol at 10:29 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Anyway, this is not the kind of thing that a reasonable person says in a relationship.
posted by lunasol at 10:29 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
he's being fair because when he gets his German Shepard, she will be a guard dog that lives outside only.
So, okay, he wants to make rules about your dog and your future home based on ""his"" ""guard dog"" that it sounds like his family is currently taking care of-- I promise you somebody is picking up that German Shepherd's poop from his family's yard, and if he thinks keeping a dog outside means not dealing with its shit, I guarantee you it isn't him. He's also talking about letting you "sneak" your own pet into your own damn home and how he might be more lenient with you if he falls in love with you. Wow. Like, just... take a minute to take all that in, ok? I'm glad you're deciding to take this slow and casual.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 10:30 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
So, okay, he wants to make rules about your dog and your future home based on ""his"" ""guard dog"" that it sounds like his family is currently taking care of-- I promise you somebody is picking up that German Shepherd's poop from his family's yard, and if he thinks keeping a dog outside means not dealing with its shit, I guarantee you it isn't him. He's also talking about letting you "sneak" your own pet into your own damn home and how he might be more lenient with you if he falls in love with you. Wow. Like, just... take a minute to take all that in, ok? I'm glad you're deciding to take this slow and casual.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 10:30 PM on February 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Why are you dating this guy? He does not enjoy your lifestyle and family!
RUN.
---------
Everyone is talking about dogs. This is about people. He doesn't like your life. You just started dating! Why the talk of houses and marriage!!! No!!!!!
If he's got issues now, just wait. No. Don't wait. RUN!
posted by jbenben at 10:41 PM on February 28, 2016 [31 favorites]
RUN.
---------
Everyone is talking about dogs. This is about people. He doesn't like your life. You just started dating! Why the talk of houses and marriage!!! No!!!!!
If he's got issues now, just wait. No. Don't wait. RUN!
posted by jbenben at 10:41 PM on February 28, 2016 [31 favorites]
Ha, what a polarizing question. People have very different attitudes about dogs, I guess.
I grew up on a 1 acre home with an outside dog and was aghast to learn that people let their dogs indoors!?! Gross! That said, I still consider myself to like dogs. My uncles have dogs and take them hunting and love their dogs, too.
Then on the other end of the spectrum you have, like, the upper 10% of dog people in the US who get them special organic food and let them live in their house, and take them on dates (??). Now that I know such people exist, I guess I wouldn't call myself a "dog person" anymore by comparison, but do believe me that I still loved my old dog, Happy.
Anyway, I think both approaches are plausible, they're sort of mutually incomprehensible, and it's either a thing you can adopt to or not. Sounds like neither of you want to come to grips with the other way of interacting with dogs.
posted by losvedir at 10:44 PM on February 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
I grew up on a 1 acre home with an outside dog and was aghast to learn that people let their dogs indoors!?! Gross! That said, I still consider myself to like dogs. My uncles have dogs and take them hunting and love their dogs, too.
Then on the other end of the spectrum you have, like, the upper 10% of dog people in the US who get them special organic food and let them live in their house, and take them on dates (??). Now that I know such people exist, I guess I wouldn't call myself a "dog person" anymore by comparison, but do believe me that I still loved my old dog, Happy.
Anyway, I think both approaches are plausible, they're sort of mutually incomprehensible, and it's either a thing you can adopt to or not. Sounds like neither of you want to come to grips with the other way of interacting with dogs.
posted by losvedir at 10:44 PM on February 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
He doesn't want the dog on dates because it will ruin the romance and create a hassle. That's something I can compromise on since it has a point. So, a hike won't be a date then.
So, let's say you DO move in together. Will you just have NO romantic times or at-home dates ever? Because there's an animal around? Will he not kiss you because - dog? I mean really, there's "going on dates" early in a relationship, then there's "being in a relationship" which is one, really, long date. He sounds super controlling and you don't even live together. (I mean, there's a reason comedian Marc Maron jokes about trying to mastrubate with 4 cats staring at you. Animals are part of your life if you have them.)
I would not date this guy. Find someone who loves your dog and is on the same page about it. It's fine to not like dogs or not date someone with or without dogs. This is not your dude. (I also feel icky about how he thinks of these dogs, too. But that's besides the point. You shouldn't keep dating him.)
posted by Crystalinne at 10:44 PM on February 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
So, let's say you DO move in together. Will you just have NO romantic times or at-home dates ever? Because there's an animal around? Will he not kiss you because - dog? I mean really, there's "going on dates" early in a relationship, then there's "being in a relationship" which is one, really, long date. He sounds super controlling and you don't even live together. (I mean, there's a reason comedian Marc Maron jokes about trying to mastrubate with 4 cats staring at you. Animals are part of your life if you have them.)
I would not date this guy. Find someone who loves your dog and is on the same page about it. It's fine to not like dogs or not date someone with or without dogs. This is not your dude. (I also feel icky about how he thinks of these dogs, too. But that's besides the point. You shouldn't keep dating him.)
posted by Crystalinne at 10:44 PM on February 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would not date someone who thinks it's a good idea to have a German Shepard watch dog who lives outside. That's not a necessary job (are people trying to kill you???? Are you a member of the mob???) And it's not a companion pet. And pooping inside? Or does reek of power and control. Nthing weird creepy person you should dump. And maybe over text because I'm worried about a violent or otherwise super weird response.
posted by Kalmya at 11:01 PM on February 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Kalmya at 11:01 PM on February 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
Dogs descend from wolves, and wolves are pack animals. Dogs don't have a pack, they only have you. It's important to socialize and spend time with your dog. Outside time is great, but dogs that live completely outdoors are often quite isolated and frustrated. There are other concerns, too, like freezing temperatures and prey animals (coyotes especially) breaking into your yard in the middle of the night.
A really important quality in relationships is the ability to compromise. See how your new boyfriend reacts the next time he is asked to make a compromise with you. That should tell you a lot.
posted by fireandthud at 11:02 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
A really important quality in relationships is the ability to compromise. See how your new boyfriend reacts the next time he is asked to make a compromise with you. That should tell you a lot.
posted by fireandthud at 11:02 PM on February 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. Don't argue with other commenters. If you have different advice, fine – give the OP your suggestions, but this isn't a debate space.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:47 PM on February 28, 2016
posted by taz (staff) at 11:47 PM on February 28, 2016
Yeah, I'm skipping over all the dog parts of the question, because I just can't get past the "sneaking" part. Sneaking? Do you want to plan a life with someone so controlling that he is telling you straight up, early in your dating history, that you will have to sneak around your own (joint) home when he is not around?
posted by instamatic at 11:53 PM on February 28, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by instamatic at 11:53 PM on February 28, 2016 [33 favorites]
I was a farm gal growing up, with working kelpies/ border collies, and when I used to hear about dogs coming in the house I was No Way, dogs hate it inside! So I come from an upbringing that coloured enormously my prejudice that people in cities shouldn't even have dogs because it's cruel, even if they have a yard, because dogs need to work and that's the biggest thing they care about.
Buuuut, later in life my Town-raised partner wanted to get a dog in our inner city townhouse with a couple of large courtyards, and I started the interaction from that place: control freak galore on this topic: don't like little dogs/don't like dogs inside/only like smart working dogs/but working dogs belong on farms - guess I sounded a lot like your bloke here. But he persevered, we got our Blossom, a kelpie/whippet cross to meet my need for smart but not work obsessive, but small, and his need for snuggly/not yappy or fluffy. I read your bloke's 'fall in love' comment about being with the dog, because falling in love with our dog meant we wanted her in the house whenever she wanted to be with us. Dog door = happy everyone. I now cannot imagine leaving our (now two) dogs outside all the time. Sometimes where you come from does mean your starting position on things like this are moveable.
Since that relationship ended and I was on the dating market again, there were loads of times prospective paramours who were dog lovers invited me on dates at outdoor cafes so my dogs could come. Without me even asking or thinking of it myself, so I don't get the aghast responses to oh my god dogs on a date part of your narrative. It's so much more relaxing knowing that an otherwise desirable fella also likes your life with your dogs. A lot of of sensible non-precious, non-obsessive ga-ga diddums-carrying-in-a-purse-dogs folks have a 'love me, love my dog' ideology, and they don't give you shit like I used to give my partner (sorry dude!) about dog rules. God it's nice knowing I can have my dogs, and no eye rolling, dog policing or rules lawyering about how I happen to live my completely normal life with my animals as a partner. You should have that too!
posted by honey-barbara at 12:29 AM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
Buuuut, later in life my Town-raised partner wanted to get a dog in our inner city townhouse with a couple of large courtyards, and I started the interaction from that place: control freak galore on this topic: don't like little dogs/don't like dogs inside/only like smart working dogs/but working dogs belong on farms - guess I sounded a lot like your bloke here. But he persevered, we got our Blossom, a kelpie/whippet cross to meet my need for smart but not work obsessive, but small, and his need for snuggly/not yappy or fluffy. I read your bloke's 'fall in love' comment about being with the dog, because falling in love with our dog meant we wanted her in the house whenever she wanted to be with us. Dog door = happy everyone. I now cannot imagine leaving our (now two) dogs outside all the time. Sometimes where you come from does mean your starting position on things like this are moveable.
Since that relationship ended and I was on the dating market again, there were loads of times prospective paramours who were dog lovers invited me on dates at outdoor cafes so my dogs could come. Without me even asking or thinking of it myself, so I don't get the aghast responses to oh my god dogs on a date part of your narrative. It's so much more relaxing knowing that an otherwise desirable fella also likes your life with your dogs. A lot of of sensible non-precious, non-obsessive ga-ga diddums-carrying-in-a-purse-dogs folks have a 'love me, love my dog' ideology, and they don't give you shit like I used to give my partner (sorry dude!) about dog rules. God it's nice knowing I can have my dogs, and no eye rolling, dog policing or rules lawyering about how I happen to live my completely normal life with my animals as a partner. You should have that too!
posted by honey-barbara at 12:29 AM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
Last night, I saw this question and started writing about dog poop in the yard and sizes of dogs and pets vs. working dogs, and others have covered all this beautifully, so I won't. I'll just say that if his attitude is throwing you off, that's your instinct talking, and it's always worth it to listen to your instinct. Go to any dog park, and you'll see that there are so many guys who are over-the-moon about their dogs. Find a guy like that, not one who's so very tightly regimented before the two of you are even serious.
posted by SillyShepherd at 12:54 AM on February 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by SillyShepherd at 12:54 AM on February 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
I figure it won't hurt to be casual for a little bit more and see what else is drawing me in or throwing me off.
I think this is a bad idea. The best case scenario is that you'll be wasting your time. The worst case scenario is that he gets a hold on you - controlling people have an amazing knack for that. And he certainly sounds like one. And you sound like a person vulnerable to that, why else would you still be fascinated enough to sample more of something you already know makes you this confused and worried?
He is weird and illogical about the big vs. small dogs thing. More importantly, IMO he is heartless and ill informed about the hypothetical German Shepherd who would be spending her time alone outside (unless he'd be working with her all day). That's not a natural way for a pack animal to live. A German Shepherd has the capacity (and need) to bond deeply; she would be unhappy and suffer, and the whole thing would lead to a poorly socialized guard dog, which is crazy dangerous. Would the dog be roaming freely to guard the perimeter? Recipe for disaster. Or chained to a spot or in an enclosure? Animal abuse.
He is already painting a future in which he's setting the rules for your household and your dogs and keeping you on your toes - one strike and the dog's out! - and then this imaginary scenario in which you'd be allowed to "sneak in" the poor dog when he's away... jesus. He is literally fantasizing about you being under his thumb like a child.
You may be curious why someone like him has this pull on you, but you won't find the answer while you're with him.
Enjoy your puppy, train her well and bond with her - it is such a joy. Only allow people into her life who will treat her with the respect and kindness she deserves as a wonderful, complex living being with rights and the capacity to love deeply. And the same goes for you.
posted by sively at 1:23 AM on February 29, 2016 [34 favorites]
I think this is a bad idea. The best case scenario is that you'll be wasting your time. The worst case scenario is that he gets a hold on you - controlling people have an amazing knack for that. And he certainly sounds like one. And you sound like a person vulnerable to that, why else would you still be fascinated enough to sample more of something you already know makes you this confused and worried?
He is weird and illogical about the big vs. small dogs thing. More importantly, IMO he is heartless and ill informed about the hypothetical German Shepherd who would be spending her time alone outside (unless he'd be working with her all day). That's not a natural way for a pack animal to live. A German Shepherd has the capacity (and need) to bond deeply; she would be unhappy and suffer, and the whole thing would lead to a poorly socialized guard dog, which is crazy dangerous. Would the dog be roaming freely to guard the perimeter? Recipe for disaster. Or chained to a spot or in an enclosure? Animal abuse.
He is already painting a future in which he's setting the rules for your household and your dogs and keeping you on your toes - one strike and the dog's out! - and then this imaginary scenario in which you'd be allowed to "sneak in" the poor dog when he's away... jesus. He is literally fantasizing about you being under his thumb like a child.
You may be curious why someone like him has this pull on you, but you won't find the answer while you're with him.
Enjoy your puppy, train her well and bond with her - it is such a joy. Only allow people into her life who will treat her with the respect and kindness she deserves as a wonderful, complex living being with rights and the capacity to love deeply. And the same goes for you.
posted by sively at 1:23 AM on February 29, 2016 [34 favorites]
As for me, I can have my large dog inside, but any poop, even if she is sick means she's out. Also I am okay to sneak the dog in if he's away from home without him knowing.
He's super-controlling, and you are already looking for workarounds for his crazy controllingness. It's like you are drawing up a blueprint for a dysfunctional relationship, in which he gets to call the shots and your only option is to sneak around him to get little bits of what you want. There is another option. It's called run like the motherfucking wind.
He has weird ideas about dogs, and it would not be fair to bring a dog into a situation in which its living circumstances will be dictated by someone who dislikes it.
He has weird ideas about what he can/can't control in a relationship, and it would not be fair to bring yourself into a situation in which your living circumstances will be dictated by someone who thinks they are the Boss of You (and your dogs.)
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:35 AM on February 29, 2016 [15 favorites]
He's super-controlling, and you are already looking for workarounds for his crazy controllingness. It's like you are drawing up a blueprint for a dysfunctional relationship, in which he gets to call the shots and your only option is to sneak around him to get little bits of what you want. There is another option. It's called run like the motherfucking wind.
He has weird ideas about dogs, and it would not be fair to bring a dog into a situation in which its living circumstances will be dictated by someone who dislikes it.
He has weird ideas about what he can/can't control in a relationship, and it would not be fair to bring yourself into a situation in which your living circumstances will be dictated by someone who thinks they are the Boss of You (and your dogs.)
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:35 AM on February 29, 2016 [15 favorites]
In my experience, dogs are companion animals who live inside and poop outside and you're still supposed to pick up the outside poop. This guy's thoughts on dogs are far enough out of left field for me that I'd wonder what other unexpected personal "rules" he has, like maybe he puts his jeans in the dishwasher or thinks he doesn't have to tip at restaurants. The kind of things that go beyond quirks or agree-to-disagree territory.
Even if he doesn't end up being a controlling ass, you might just never see eye to eye on the most basic things, and that's enough of a reason to call it off.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:57 AM on February 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
Even if he doesn't end up being a controlling ass, you might just never see eye to eye on the most basic things, and that's enough of a reason to call it off.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:57 AM on February 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
I like other people's dogs well enough, but don't want any of my own. That's my choice, and it's not my place to tell them how they and their dogs should live. Your guy, however..... he very much does consider it his place to tell other people (like you!) how to live and how your pets should be treated.
This isn't so much about how he views dogs: its about how he views his own place in the world.... and that place is superior to yours, his opinions and outlooks are superior, and as his inferior it is your place to listen and obey. Notice in this whole thing about your dogs at your home: he doesn't live there and he still isn't willing to 'compromise' by letting you make your own decisions (indoor/outdoor dogs, doggy door, what else?) when it isn't any of his business.
That's not compromising or even failing to compromise: that's controlling.
The theoretical someday-in-the-future "resale value" of your home has zero to do with him. The way you raise your dogs in your home has zero to do with him. The attempts to control your behavior, though --- ah yes, that very much does have to do with him. Controlling usually graduates to abuse, and there are already so many red flags with this dude that your best move would be to ditch him before you (or your dogs!) get really hurt. I'm sorry, but this is just the tip of the iceberg.
posted by easily confused at 4:26 AM on February 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
This isn't so much about how he views dogs: its about how he views his own place in the world.... and that place is superior to yours, his opinions and outlooks are superior, and as his inferior it is your place to listen and obey. Notice in this whole thing about your dogs at your home: he doesn't live there and he still isn't willing to 'compromise' by letting you make your own decisions (indoor/outdoor dogs, doggy door, what else?) when it isn't any of his business.
That's not compromising or even failing to compromise: that's controlling.
The theoretical someday-in-the-future "resale value" of your home has zero to do with him. The way you raise your dogs in your home has zero to do with him. The attempts to control your behavior, though --- ah yes, that very much does have to do with him. Controlling usually graduates to abuse, and there are already so many red flags with this dude that your best move would be to ditch him before you (or your dogs!) get really hurt. I'm sorry, but this is just the tip of the iceberg.
posted by easily confused at 4:26 AM on February 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yeah, just adding another voice to say that the problem here has nothing to do with dogs as dogs. The problem is that he is (a) accelerating your relationship -- you just started this thing, and he's already talking conditions for your marriage; (b) apparently completely unwilling to compromise; and (c) throwing bullshit at you to prop up his preferences as if they were somehow The Only Correct Way (the doggy door thing).
You're a dog lover. You deserve the kind of guy who thinks your dog is the biggest snoogy-woogums and wants to snuggle with you and the dog on dates and some day, down the road, have a dog-themed wedding where your dog is the best man and all your friends bring their dogs.
And you know what? That is completely achievable! Those guys are out there! I have been to that dog-friendly wedding! (It was a lovely day and the couple was really, really into their dog.)
This guy is, at best, a controlling dick. Go find a better guy.
posted by pie ninja at 4:30 AM on February 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
You're a dog lover. You deserve the kind of guy who thinks your dog is the biggest snoogy-woogums and wants to snuggle with you and the dog on dates and some day, down the road, have a dog-themed wedding where your dog is the best man and all your friends bring their dogs.
And you know what? That is completely achievable! Those guys are out there! I have been to that dog-friendly wedding! (It was a lovely day and the couple was really, really into their dog.)
This guy is, at best, a controlling dick. Go find a better guy.
posted by pie ninja at 4:30 AM on February 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
Honestly, the issue here isn't dogs. This guy is telling you a lot about how he thinks, negotiates, and interacts, as well as how much he can or will change his views or opinions when faced with new information. Does he value your voice and insights? Does he believe and respect you and your experience? This is an amazing gift early in the relationship, as it allows you to make a big decision about whether you're a good fit or not before you have invested more time. Is this someone you want to make a life with?
posted by spindrifter at 5:02 AM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by spindrifter at 5:02 AM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
So, there is no One True Way to own and care for pets. People have very different levels of affection for and connection to their pets, and that's OK. Even people with similar levels of connection to their pets might care for them in very different ways. We don't have enough details here to determine if your boyfriend is caring for his (hypothetical?) dog in a reasonable and humane manner, but it is at least possible to be a responsible dog owner that keeps their dogs mostly outside. The split between small dogs that live inside and large dogs that live outside seems a bit... arbitrary to me? Like is it a weight-based or height based cut off? Could different dogs of the same breed straddle that cut off point? In any case I am willing to let it slide as a weird quirk, but my eyes are narrowing, and sliding a bit to the side.
That said, it certainly sounds like the two of you have very different ideas about dog ownership, and there is going to be a great deal of clear communication and compromise required, and his responses about compromise pretty much narrow my eyes to slits and slide them very hard to the side. A dog door is not a major factor in the price of a home. Even if the entire door, frame and all, need to be replaced when you sell, it's a small small percentage of the value of the home, and a very reasonable compromise to make. It's also weird that he would be OK with you "sneaking" the dog in if he doesn't "know about it". I could understand a compromise where you are allowed to have the dog inside when he is not home, but you shouldn't be treated like a criminal in your own home.
I know it seems like a minor thing, but unless you are both willing to work very hard on communication and compromise around the dog ownership issue -- and I echo the person above who said to consider the fact that he is not likely to become more accommodating as your relationship progresses -- this sounds like it is not a relationship that is destined for long term success.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:03 AM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
That said, it certainly sounds like the two of you have very different ideas about dog ownership, and there is going to be a great deal of clear communication and compromise required, and his responses about compromise pretty much narrow my eyes to slits and slide them very hard to the side. A dog door is not a major factor in the price of a home. Even if the entire door, frame and all, need to be replaced when you sell, it's a small small percentage of the value of the home, and a very reasonable compromise to make. It's also weird that he would be OK with you "sneaking" the dog in if he doesn't "know about it". I could understand a compromise where you are allowed to have the dog inside when he is not home, but you shouldn't be treated like a criminal in your own home.
I know it seems like a minor thing, but unless you are both willing to work very hard on communication and compromise around the dog ownership issue -- and I echo the person above who said to consider the fact that he is not likely to become more accommodating as your relationship progresses -- this sounds like it is not a relationship that is destined for long term success.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:03 AM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I brought that option up and he states that will ruin the resale value of the house.
My dad, for all of his great qualities, is pretty controlling. "It will affect the resale value of the house" was his constant refrain when we were kids and the one that always got my mom to cow to him because she's afraid of being poor.
"It will affect the resale value of the house" is why we couldn't have a dog (any pets, why we couldn't hang posters on our walls, why we couldn't paint our rooms whatever color we wanted, and why we couldn't [a whole slew of other things]. It's a stupid fucking reason not to live in the way you want, and made even stupider still by the fact that my parents have now lived in that house nearly 30 years and still have no intention to move.
Your boyfriend using that as an excuse for no doggy door is either 1) stupid or 2) grasping at straws to figure out ways to make you give up and bend to his will.
My mom still desperately wants a dog.
posted by phunniemee at 5:12 AM on February 29, 2016 [28 favorites]
My dad, for all of his great qualities, is pretty controlling. "It will affect the resale value of the house" was his constant refrain when we were kids and the one that always got my mom to cow to him because she's afraid of being poor.
"It will affect the resale value of the house" is why we couldn't have a dog (any pets, why we couldn't hang posters on our walls, why we couldn't paint our rooms whatever color we wanted, and why we couldn't [a whole slew of other things]. It's a stupid fucking reason not to live in the way you want, and made even stupider still by the fact that my parents have now lived in that house nearly 30 years and still have no intention to move.
Your boyfriend using that as an excuse for no doggy door is either 1) stupid or 2) grasping at straws to figure out ways to make you give up and bend to his will.
My mom still desperately wants a dog.
posted by phunniemee at 5:12 AM on February 29, 2016 [28 favorites]
nthing sively. At best you'll be wasting your time. At worst you'll likely get strung along for several years, have your sense of identity (and self esteem) whittled down to nothing and/or have your heart crushed as the judgement, control and manipulation in other areas of your relationship tighten. Ask me how I know. I've spent a third of my life (2 separate LTRs) trying to get so-called 'animal loving' men to engage in a healthy discussion about pet ownership and arrive at some sort of compromise where both our needs were met. At first, both exes paid lip service to the -idea- of pet ownership every time I brought it up (I'm very upfront/vocal about loving pets being a dealbreaker), but like your beau, both also had concerning, stand-offish views about pets and their place in a humans' life (ie: I love dogs/cats! I just don't 'get' why people own them, have them inside, etc.).
Limerence blinded me to the hostility they openly showed towards pets in their 'space' too -- every dog they encountered was crazy, stupid, untrained, too smelly, too furry, too small or too big -- if a dog tried to engage with them, they'd half-heartedly throw a toy or give it an awkward pet, then -shove- it away. They were never excited to see or be around animals. In hindsight, neither had any intention of ever being an equal partner in owning a pet -- they simply didn't want the responsibility and seemed hellbent on convincing me that I shouldn't either. Both eventually seemed to become downright resentful that I wanted pets in my life at all -- as though my wanting a pet somehow meant that -they- weren't enough. Sooo much time was wasted trying to convince and reassure manchildren that the companionship and loyalty of a pet was different than that provided by a human and it was healthy and natural to desire both.
But I'm digressing...the issue here is that your wildly different views on dog ownership will always be a point of contention. Your beau has conveyed that he believes his view for dog ownership is 'right', and you've already demonstrated to him that your boundaries, even with something as important as your love of dogs, can be tested. This WILL bleed into other areas of your relationship. Once a controlling and/or manipulative person knows they can disregard one of your boundaries, they're unlikely to stop at just one. Tread carefully. Or ask yourself...is it really worth it? This internet strangers' advice is to run the other direction... find someone who loves dogs just as much as you. Someone who's excited to meet your pups (and whose idea of a great date is taking the dogs somewhere fun) is out there. :)
posted by stubbehtail at 5:38 AM on February 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
Limerence blinded me to the hostility they openly showed towards pets in their 'space' too -- every dog they encountered was crazy, stupid, untrained, too smelly, too furry, too small or too big -- if a dog tried to engage with them, they'd half-heartedly throw a toy or give it an awkward pet, then -shove- it away. They were never excited to see or be around animals. In hindsight, neither had any intention of ever being an equal partner in owning a pet -- they simply didn't want the responsibility and seemed hellbent on convincing me that I shouldn't either. Both eventually seemed to become downright resentful that I wanted pets in my life at all -- as though my wanting a pet somehow meant that -they- weren't enough. Sooo much time was wasted trying to convince and reassure manchildren that the companionship and loyalty of a pet was different than that provided by a human and it was healthy and natural to desire both.
But I'm digressing...the issue here is that your wildly different views on dog ownership will always be a point of contention. Your beau has conveyed that he believes his view for dog ownership is 'right', and you've already demonstrated to him that your boundaries, even with something as important as your love of dogs, can be tested. This WILL bleed into other areas of your relationship. Once a controlling and/or manipulative person knows they can disregard one of your boundaries, they're unlikely to stop at just one. Tread carefully. Or ask yourself...is it really worth it? This internet strangers' advice is to run the other direction... find someone who loves dogs just as much as you. Someone who's excited to meet your pups (and whose idea of a great date is taking the dogs somewhere fun) is out there. :)
posted by stubbehtail at 5:38 AM on February 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
WTF, he doesn't like your dogs, case closed.
Who's important here?!? Love you, love your dogs. This guy has to go. The end.
p.s. I could understand if it were some issue like, one of your dogs is actually a wolf and the other is actually a pterosaur and both of them eat people. That's not what's happening here.
posted by tel3path at 5:46 AM on February 29, 2016 [15 favorites]
Who's important here?!? Love you, love your dogs. This guy has to go. The end.
p.s. I could understand if it were some issue like, one of your dogs is actually a wolf and the other is actually a pterosaur and both of them eat people. That's not what's happening here.
posted by tel3path at 5:46 AM on February 29, 2016 [15 favorites]
Just came in to respond to this: "He doesn't want the dog on dates because it will ruin the romance and create a hassle."
We have a very tiny dog, ok a hamster, and she regularly intrudes on smoochy sofa time (OMG GUYS WHAT ARE YOU DOING, HEYYY IS IT FOOD TIME NOW? I WILL CHEW THE BARS UNTIL IT IS) and it's hilarious and brilliant.
posted by greenish at 5:57 AM on February 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
We have a very tiny dog, ok a hamster, and she regularly intrudes on smoochy sofa time (OMG GUYS WHAT ARE YOU DOING, HEYYY IS IT FOOD TIME NOW? I WILL CHEW THE BARS UNTIL IT IS) and it's hilarious and brilliant.
posted by greenish at 5:57 AM on February 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
I am your type of dog person. While I'm not about to say that our way is the only way, I will say this: loving dogs the way we do is really time consuming, right? I think it will be really hard for you to compromise on this in a way that doesn't make you feel like you're still doing right by your dog. And that's totally okay! I couldn't be with a guy like this.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 6:24 AM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by schroedingersgirl at 6:24 AM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
This guy sounds has some really, really weird and strict rules about The Way The World Should Be. Right now, what's coming up is his Rules About Dogs because you have a puppy. I'm going to bet that he also has Rules About Children and Rules About Women and Rules About Everything He Thinks He Should Have Control Over.
Very few of his rules make any sense if you interrogate them for a sec. Dog poop is irrelevant--no dog regardless of size should be pooping in the house if they're healthy. Dog doors are irrelevant--when you want to sell a house, replace the old door with a new door. Costs about $200. His big German Shepherd guard dog is irrelevant unless he has a price on his head and actually needs a fulltime protection staff. (In my experience, 90% of people who say they "need a guard dog" actually just need therapy. There are very few legitimate reasons to have a lethal weapon in your yard 24/7. Also does he realize that trained guard dogs need a skilled trainer and hundreds of hours of work in order to be a) effective and b) not incredibly dangerous?)
Diagnosis: creep.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:38 AM on February 29, 2016 [23 favorites]
Very few of his rules make any sense if you interrogate them for a sec. Dog poop is irrelevant--no dog regardless of size should be pooping in the house if they're healthy. Dog doors are irrelevant--when you want to sell a house, replace the old door with a new door. Costs about $200. His big German Shepherd guard dog is irrelevant unless he has a price on his head and actually needs a fulltime protection staff. (In my experience, 90% of people who say they "need a guard dog" actually just need therapy. There are very few legitimate reasons to have a lethal weapon in your yard 24/7. Also does he realize that trained guard dogs need a skilled trainer and hundreds of hours of work in order to be a) effective and b) not incredibly dangerous?)
Diagnosis: creep.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:38 AM on February 29, 2016 [23 favorites]
If you're already thinking about how to "sneak" around your own damn house to tip toe around this guy's odd rules I think this budding relationship is DOA. Swiftly move on!
posted by like_neon at 6:40 AM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 6:40 AM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm a bit of an intense person about dogs and I wouldn't be able to date someone like this. It sounds like he's set in his ways and you're already trying to convince him to come around to your way of seeing things (because it's an issue you care about). In my experience, if I start the relationship feeling like we're incompatible on a big thing, it doesn't get any better.
I mean my ideal date is hiking with dogs and I've broken up with people for shoving my cats off the bed so I know I'm a little extreme here but why would you want to date someone who thinks fun ruins the romance? Why would you want to date someone who thinks he needs an outdoor-only guard dog? Who thinks that putting in a dog door ruins the house? There's just so much... already. You could just find someone who genuinely appreciates your pets and your lifestyle instead.
posted by buteo at 6:44 AM on February 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
I mean my ideal date is hiking with dogs and I've broken up with people for shoving my cats off the bed so I know I'm a little extreme here but why would you want to date someone who thinks fun ruins the romance? Why would you want to date someone who thinks he needs an outdoor-only guard dog? Who thinks that putting in a dog door ruins the house? There's just so much... already. You could just find someone who genuinely appreciates your pets and your lifestyle instead.
posted by buteo at 6:44 AM on February 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
The dog disagreement isn’t the real issue here. The real issue is that this guy makes a decision for how he Thinks Things Should Be based on nothing in particular, just his general feeling or preference, and then comes up with justifications for his feeling after the fact, in order to pretend that it’s actually a rational, logical choice when it absolutely isn’t. You’re lucky in this case, because he’s either not very smart or not very creative, and his justifications for his belief that large dogs should be outside are nonsensical, so you’re able to clearly see what he’s doing. Other times it might not be so obvious, and it could be about things that are a good deal more important (like child raising, choosing where to live, etc.).
The dog thing is something that two caring people could get around. The irrational mansplaining know-it-all thing, you shouldn’t subject yourself to.
posted by metasarah at 6:48 AM on February 29, 2016 [13 favorites]
The dog thing is something that two caring people could get around. The irrational mansplaining know-it-all thing, you shouldn’t subject yourself to.
posted by metasarah at 6:48 AM on February 29, 2016 [13 favorites]
Very few of his rules make any sense if you interrogate them for a sec.
Good point... I'm thinking, other than when they're being toxic, abusive assholes, when are people unreasonable?
Diagnosis: creep.
Alternate hypothesis: possibly, slightly afraid or mistrustful of or intimidated by big dogs, even though his family has one (maybe because of that, depending)? And uncomfortable admitting this because he thinks it'd be embarrassing to do that, and/or he likes you a lot, and/or he may not actually be aware of it, and really believes what he's saying?
It sounds like yeah, he hasn't had that much to do with training his family's dogs (which if true, and if he's young, might not be such a horribly damning or uncommon thing). He doesn't sound that dog-experienced, to me, even though he's had them around.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:53 AM on February 29, 2016
Good point... I'm thinking, other than when they're being toxic, abusive assholes, when are people unreasonable?
Diagnosis: creep.
Alternate hypothesis: possibly, slightly afraid or mistrustful of or intimidated by big dogs, even though his family has one (maybe because of that, depending)? And uncomfortable admitting this because he thinks it'd be embarrassing to do that, and/or he likes you a lot, and/or he may not actually be aware of it, and really believes what he's saying?
It sounds like yeah, he hasn't had that much to do with training his family's dogs (which if true, and if he's young, might not be such a horribly damning or uncommon thing). He doesn't sound that dog-experienced, to me, even though he's had them around.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:53 AM on February 29, 2016
We have a very tiny dog, ok a hamster, and she regularly intrudes on smoochy sofa time
Yeah, my now-gone terrier used to try to jump in on makeout sessions with an ex, and it was super cute. But we (me, ex, dog) all knew each other pretty well at that point.
Training a puppy is a HUGE and important and demanding enterprise. Even lifelong, serial dog owners aren't up for it every year or phase of life. And I'm not sure using dates as training opportunities is an optimal use of time that's ideally about getting to know the human at the table. "Tell me about your - NO, Harris, NO. Bad dog. No. Sit. I said sit. Siiiiiiit. Good dog. Here's a treat. Good boy. Ok sorry, what was I saying, yeah tell me about that..." Like that is distracting.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:01 AM on February 29, 2016
Yeah, my now-gone terrier used to try to jump in on makeout sessions with an ex, and it was super cute. But we (me, ex, dog) all knew each other pretty well at that point.
Training a puppy is a HUGE and important and demanding enterprise. Even lifelong, serial dog owners aren't up for it every year or phase of life. And I'm not sure using dates as training opportunities is an optimal use of time that's ideally about getting to know the human at the table. "Tell me about your - NO, Harris, NO. Bad dog. No. Sit. I said sit. Siiiiiiit. Good dog. Here's a treat. Good boy. Ok sorry, what was I saying, yeah tell me about that..." Like that is distracting.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:01 AM on February 29, 2016
How about this:
If you do get married, and even while you are dating, you _both_ make the rules. You don't only make them based on how you were raised -- you make them after learning as much as possible about what is best for each other and for the animals you love (including children).
posted by amtho at 7:04 AM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you do get married, and even while you are dating, you _both_ make the rules. You don't only make them based on how you were raised -- you make them after learning as much as possible about what is best for each other and for the animals you love (including children).
posted by amtho at 7:04 AM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Your problem isn't really about dogs, like everyone else has pointed out. But I don't think you two just have different valid opinions about dog care. My great-uncle had a well-cared-for outside dog for many years, but that is not the plan that your boyfriend is describing here. And an outside dog that is not well-cared-for, is a tragedy to behold. We had a neighbor with a neglected outside dog, and the entire neighborhood constantly worried about the poor creature - but the guy juuuust toed the line that kept animal services off his ass, so we could only sadly observe the dog's fate.
I also wanted to emphasize what others have said: It's totally irresponsible to other human beings, to mistreat a dog into what he considers "guard dog" status. A poorly-trained, neglected, large outside dog is not a good thing to do to your neighbors. To put it mildly. I'd be worried about dating a person who doesn't see a problem with creating that situation. I have a toddler, and am terrified of the kind of macho idiots who create the kind of large, unstable "guard dogs" who could kill my child before I could even begin to fight the dog off.
posted by Coatlicue at 7:29 AM on February 29, 2016
I also wanted to emphasize what others have said: It's totally irresponsible to other human beings, to mistreat a dog into what he considers "guard dog" status. A poorly-trained, neglected, large outside dog is not a good thing to do to your neighbors. To put it mildly. I'd be worried about dating a person who doesn't see a problem with creating that situation. I have a toddler, and am terrified of the kind of macho idiots who create the kind of large, unstable "guard dogs" who could kill my child before I could even begin to fight the dog off.
posted by Coatlicue at 7:29 AM on February 29, 2016
Who's important here?!? Love you, love your dogs. This guy has to go. The end.
This.
posted by SisterHavana at 7:34 AM on February 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
> he will endlessly come up with arcane and totally unecessary rules for life that really make no sense. Normal people are not like this.
I couldn't disagree more. I'm pretty sure everyone does this about something. Maybe this guy does it about dogs, or maybe everything; only OP can tell. But it's very possible he just has some set ideas, from his upbringing, about dogs and their roles, and is ripe for conversion following some new experiences. Like quite a lot of people, this guy has been told a lot of stuff and hasn't experienced a lot of stuff. Experience is a better teacher, if a harder teacher.
posted by Sunburnt at 7:56 AM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I couldn't disagree more. I'm pretty sure everyone does this about something. Maybe this guy does it about dogs, or maybe everything; only OP can tell. But it's very possible he just has some set ideas, from his upbringing, about dogs and their roles, and is ripe for conversion following some new experiences. Like quite a lot of people, this guy has been told a lot of stuff and hasn't experienced a lot of stuff. Experience is a better teacher, if a harder teacher.
posted by Sunburnt at 7:56 AM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I totally agree with everyone that this guy sounds bizarre and controlling. Move on. Dog lovers are everywhere. You'll find a decent one.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:34 AM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:34 AM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Adding to it. I'm not going to say anything about the dog poop. I just wanted to say when I read this question the hairs in the back of my neck actually stood up. There is something really off about this guy and, per your update, you are feeling it as well. Please listen to your instincts here.
posted by Vaike at 8:44 AM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Vaike at 8:44 AM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
So, I will come at this from the perspective of someone who not only dislikes dogs, but is terrified by most of them. :) I am pretty much a weird anti-dog person (I acknowledge this is weird!). I tried to date a guy I otherwise really liked quite a lot, who ended up having a large dog, who I met on maybe date 3 or 4. The dog jumped on me and terrified me, even though I am sure it was a nice dog to normal people who like dogs and don't have my weird issues. Nonetheless, my response was not to tell him that he needed to leave his dog outside or never have me around the dog or get rid of the dog or whatever. It was to break things off, because clearly we were not compatible! It sounds like your boyfriend has some weird ideas about dogs, and honestly your personal approach to pets is also not one I could handle (I can't imagine bringing a pet on a date!), but WHATEVER - it is you and your approach, and so go ahead and find another person who wants to bring THEIR dog on a date, and date happily together. :) It sounds like both your dog and your particular approach to pet ownership is pretty intense and hands-on, and there's nothing wrong with that but you should look for a partner with a similar attitude toward pets.
posted by rainbowbrite at 9:09 AM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 9:09 AM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Like quite a lot of people, this guy has been told a lot of stuff and hasn't experienced a lot of stuff.
If a person reacts to a new situation (with relatively low stakes at this point!) with rigidity and controlling behavior, you can expect that to continue, no matter how much experience he accumulates. It's one thing to have set ideas (we all do); it's quite another to keep them set, and to fantasize extensively in advance about how you're going to impose them on someone who doesn't share them.
posted by praemunire at 9:14 AM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
If a person reacts to a new situation (with relatively low stakes at this point!) with rigidity and controlling behavior, you can expect that to continue, no matter how much experience he accumulates. It's one thing to have set ideas (we all do); it's quite another to keep them set, and to fantasize extensively in advance about how you're going to impose them on someone who doesn't share them.
posted by praemunire at 9:14 AM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
Dog stuff aside.
How long have you been dating this guy, and why is he already coming up with hypothetical household issues you'll need to compromise on when you're married?
Doesn't sound to me like you're serious enough to be at that point, and doesn't like you're having much fun.
posted by kapers at 10:00 AM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
How long have you been dating this guy, and why is he already coming up with hypothetical household issues you'll need to compromise on when you're married?
Doesn't sound to me like you're serious enough to be at that point, and doesn't like you're having much fun.
posted by kapers at 10:00 AM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm in a relationship with a guy that is mostly great but has a few little "He doesn't feel the same way as me" areas, like most relationships. I think it may help to model what you'd consider to be optimal, normative and suboptimal in terms of a random not-this-guy boyfriend so you can get some perspective.
Like optimally, you'd be with someone who adored your pup, was stoked to bring the pup on dates, had his own dog (maybe) and liked to snuggle on the couch with your dogs while you all watched Lassie together (or something, you can think on it on your own). Maybe normative/average would be someone who wasn't really a "dog person" per se but was open to the idea of dogs, especially your dog if they like you and was basically interested in your dog because they were interested in you. Suboptimal would be someone who was more interested in their feelings about dogs than their feelings about you (i.e. their feelings about dogs would color their feelings about you based on how you felt about dogs, not the other way around).
In my relationship I aim for optimal and settle sometimes for normative/average (and assume he does with me as well) but suboptimal would be dealbreaker territory unless we'd had some pretty serious talks about the topic and how it would manifest in our relationship. It's fully possible to not be a "dog person" but still be someone open to the idea of dating someone with a dog. It's also possible for someone to have a different sort of relationship with dogs (i.e. someone who uses dogs for hunting and keeps them outside a lot of the time) and still be open to you and your type of relationship with dogs. What's sketchy is someone telling you what "fair" is or should be about a situation when almost by definition fair should be something that seems equitable to the both of you.
I don't like the way this guy talks about fairness and the very odd-sounding "if he falls in love" line. I am not sure this guy is ready for an adult relationship just yet.
posted by jessamyn at 10:02 AM on February 29, 2016 [9 favorites]
Like optimally, you'd be with someone who adored your pup, was stoked to bring the pup on dates, had his own dog (maybe) and liked to snuggle on the couch with your dogs while you all watched Lassie together (or something, you can think on it on your own). Maybe normative/average would be someone who wasn't really a "dog person" per se but was open to the idea of dogs, especially your dog if they like you and was basically interested in your dog because they were interested in you. Suboptimal would be someone who was more interested in their feelings about dogs than their feelings about you (i.e. their feelings about dogs would color their feelings about you based on how you felt about dogs, not the other way around).
In my relationship I aim for optimal and settle sometimes for normative/average (and assume he does with me as well) but suboptimal would be dealbreaker territory unless we'd had some pretty serious talks about the topic and how it would manifest in our relationship. It's fully possible to not be a "dog person" but still be someone open to the idea of dating someone with a dog. It's also possible for someone to have a different sort of relationship with dogs (i.e. someone who uses dogs for hunting and keeps them outside a lot of the time) and still be open to you and your type of relationship with dogs. What's sketchy is someone telling you what "fair" is or should be about a situation when almost by definition fair should be something that seems equitable to the both of you.
I don't like the way this guy talks about fairness and the very odd-sounding "if he falls in love" line. I am not sure this guy is ready for an adult relationship just yet.
posted by jessamyn at 10:02 AM on February 29, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm a dog person. We have 3 rescues. I prefer larger dogs, but whatever. We have a dog door (which I love love love.. god, how'd I ever last without one?)
That being said - there are folks who proscribe to the school of thought that dogs are not companions, but any other kind of asset. I'm not coming down on that being wrong or right, but let's just agree that there are a good number of people who think that way. The dog is a guard, or some other kind of working dog, and that is its function. Put it in the barn when not in use.
I'm also going to assume that this particular guy is in a warm-weather climate that doesn't suffer from bone chilling cold and snow.
There are also the cultures where dogs are allowed to roam freely, but do have an 'owner' and 'home' and are treated as pets and cared for - more tropical places like Costa Rica or the islands. (Of course, there's a huge problem in the islands where dogs are simply abandoned on the beaches and left to die.. but, anyway..)
Personally, I think for 'dog people' part of the fun is having a date WITH the dogs.. the dogs play on the beach together, you watch the sunset, have some champagne, and giggle over how stupid the dogs are.
He doesn't sound like that kind of person. He sounds more like the working animal kind of person. I don't think a 'dog date' kind of person will really gel with a 'working dog' kind of person. Just that you're already sacrificing your pet's "needs" because he doesn't agree with your way of raising a pet shows how this may devolve.
If it was a question of "on the couch or bed" and "floor only" well - that's a different issue completely. But this doesn't seem reconcilable.
posted by rich at 10:40 AM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
That being said - there are folks who proscribe to the school of thought that dogs are not companions, but any other kind of asset. I'm not coming down on that being wrong or right, but let's just agree that there are a good number of people who think that way. The dog is a guard, or some other kind of working dog, and that is its function. Put it in the barn when not in use.
I'm also going to assume that this particular guy is in a warm-weather climate that doesn't suffer from bone chilling cold and snow.
There are also the cultures where dogs are allowed to roam freely, but do have an 'owner' and 'home' and are treated as pets and cared for - more tropical places like Costa Rica or the islands. (Of course, there's a huge problem in the islands where dogs are simply abandoned on the beaches and left to die.. but, anyway..)
Personally, I think for 'dog people' part of the fun is having a date WITH the dogs.. the dogs play on the beach together, you watch the sunset, have some champagne, and giggle over how stupid the dogs are.
He doesn't sound like that kind of person. He sounds more like the working animal kind of person. I don't think a 'dog date' kind of person will really gel with a 'working dog' kind of person. Just that you're already sacrificing your pet's "needs" because he doesn't agree with your way of raising a pet shows how this may devolve.
If it was a question of "on the couch or bed" and "floor only" well - that's a different issue completely. But this doesn't seem reconcilable.
posted by rich at 10:40 AM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here's a dog-free aside to this whole question. If he thinks it's okay for future you to "sneak around" and bring your dog inside when he's unaware, what does he think it's okay for future him to sneak around and do against your wishes?
posted by headspace at 10:49 AM on February 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by headspace at 10:49 AM on February 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
The dogs don't matter. This is a guy who makes up random, arbitrary rules and decides his rules are "the way things are." I'm not clear from the way you write this which one of you thinks that you sneaking around when he's not there is a good way to solve this problem, but in either case, that is not a good way to start a relationship (or end one or be in the middle of one). Keep the puppy. Lose the guy.
posted by FencingGal at 1:28 PM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by FencingGal at 1:28 PM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
People who start talking about the Rules of Living Together when you're still dating casually are letting you know in no uncertain terms that they are controlling jerks. He's not just going to be like this about dogs.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:24 PM on February 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 2:24 PM on February 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
Holy shit, LadyAerin, his comments are all pointing to grade-A controlling behavior. I hope you take the bulk of the advice here and move on to someone else. Please let us know when you've said your goodbyes.
posted by chonus at 2:26 PM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by chonus at 2:26 PM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dogs only shit on the floor if a) they can't get outside on their own or b) you aren't attuned enough to them to tell that they want to go outside and take a shit. Both of these things are easy to resolve. But the larger point is that this guy doesn't know what he is talking about, is controlling and arbitrary, and basically is an idiot - ditch him.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:22 PM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:22 PM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
The guard dog thing bothers me the most, although the rest of it is also weird. Where do you live? If it isn't on a farm, that guard dog will be BORED. Even the idea of it makes me sad. A large dog, cooped up in a small fenced yard, with no one to hang out with and nothing to do?
Even if you lived in a high-crime area, the dog would be "working" as a guard dog on the off chance that someone tried to burgle his house, so what, like once in a lifetime? Maybe twice? Poor pup.
Also, whether your guy knows it or not, a German Shepherd will have big poops that he will have to clean up, unless he likes all the plant matter in one corner of his yard to die and for there to be a really gross bug infestation. Think about that one for a bit: his house surrounded by a large and bored guard dog and smelling of poop. Sure sounds like a place I would want to live, all right! /sarcasm
Dump him.
posted by chainsofreedom at 3:38 PM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Even if you lived in a high-crime area, the dog would be "working" as a guard dog on the off chance that someone tried to burgle his house, so what, like once in a lifetime? Maybe twice? Poor pup.
Also, whether your guy knows it or not, a German Shepherd will have big poops that he will have to clean up, unless he likes all the plant matter in one corner of his yard to die and for there to be a really gross bug infestation. Think about that one for a bit: his house surrounded by a large and bored guard dog and smelling of poop. Sure sounds like a place I would want to live, all right! /sarcasm
Dump him.
posted by chainsofreedom at 3:38 PM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I didn't want to jump onto the pile on, but I keep coming back to this question because it's one of the most concerning early relationship AskMe's I've ever seen. All my instincts are screaming 'run' here. Just from the couple of paragraphs you've posted, I see four massive red flags:
1. Lack of empathy for you, your dog, and his future dog (saying your dog will live outside if it ever makes a mistake, telling you he doesn't want your new puppy to spend time with you and him)
2. Strange and illogical rationale that he insists is The Truth (big dogs poop in the house)
3. Refusal to negotiate or compromise
4. Super controlling behavior - "you can sneak the dog in when I'm no around", "you can't bring your dog on dates", "you can't have a big dog inside".
Plus, this is a pretty big orange flag:
5. Impatient and easily angered/annoyed (puppy woke him up and he didn't take it well - this is literally what puppies do)
posted by zug at 5:30 PM on February 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
1. Lack of empathy for you, your dog, and his future dog (saying your dog will live outside if it ever makes a mistake, telling you he doesn't want your new puppy to spend time with you and him)
2. Strange and illogical rationale that he insists is The Truth (big dogs poop in the house)
3. Refusal to negotiate or compromise
4. Super controlling behavior - "you can sneak the dog in when I'm no around", "you can't bring your dog on dates", "you can't have a big dog inside".
Plus, this is a pretty big orange flag:
5. Impatient and easily angered/annoyed (puppy woke him up and he didn't take it well - this is literally what puppies do)
posted by zug at 5:30 PM on February 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Happy Leap Year!
So, short story short. In the fairness of all things, I talked to the guy, and no he wouldn't budge. He said it was a hypothetical situation, how can you expect me tell to you how I will act in the future? Then he went over his large dog-poop theory again and it just made me think he was crazy. Then he went on his theory on how dogs should be outside. Large dogs = weather resistant. Small dogs = not weather resistant= inside. He had an awesome loyal, outside only, well-trained German Shepherd (by him) as a pet a few years ago. GS = loyal = ideal dog. My puppy = annoying, not well-trained, not loyal. When he became too busy with life, his GS was rehomed, became an indoor dog, and thereafter became fat--he's seen it with so many indoor dogs, hence, dogs should not be allowed to live inside since it's "fact" that living indoors is unhealthy for them. P.S. we do not live on a farm. We both live in suburbs.
Anyways...I had enough of this crazy. Not so much the dog preferences, this crazy logic where there is only one right way and rules! I'm not against a large dog living outside, but don't like being forbidden to do so without a good reason. I had a good cry and I am single again. Yes, there's a lot of issues with dating and dog owning, but this is just too much. I'm so glad the issue came up now.
P.S. he texted after our convo to say "one dog in house", but these comments, (thank you for sharing) have pretty much validated my fears of being with someone controlling and being with someone who wants me to treat my dog a certain way (against dog owner norm) in order to be with them.
Thanks for all the anecdotes, enjoyed reading them.
posted by LadyAerin at 10:08 PM on February 29, 2016 [50 favorites]
So, short story short. In the fairness of all things, I talked to the guy, and no he wouldn't budge. He said it was a hypothetical situation, how can you expect me tell to you how I will act in the future? Then he went over his large dog-poop theory again and it just made me think he was crazy. Then he went on his theory on how dogs should be outside. Large dogs = weather resistant. Small dogs = not weather resistant= inside. He had an awesome loyal, outside only, well-trained German Shepherd (by him) as a pet a few years ago. GS = loyal = ideal dog. My puppy = annoying, not well-trained, not loyal. When he became too busy with life, his GS was rehomed, became an indoor dog, and thereafter became fat--he's seen it with so many indoor dogs, hence, dogs should not be allowed to live inside since it's "fact" that living indoors is unhealthy for them. P.S. we do not live on a farm. We both live in suburbs.
Anyways...I had enough of this crazy. Not so much the dog preferences, this crazy logic where there is only one right way and rules! I'm not against a large dog living outside, but don't like being forbidden to do so without a good reason. I had a good cry and I am single again. Yes, there's a lot of issues with dating and dog owning, but this is just too much. I'm so glad the issue came up now.
P.S. he texted after our convo to say "one dog in house", but these comments, (thank you for sharing) have pretty much validated my fears of being with someone controlling and being with someone who wants me to treat my dog a certain way (against dog owner norm) in order to be with them.
Thanks for all the anecdotes, enjoyed reading them.
posted by LadyAerin at 10:08 PM on February 29, 2016 [50 favorites]
GO YOU!! and give that puppy a smooch from me!
posted by HotToddy at 10:20 PM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 10:20 PM on February 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yowzer.
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:21 PM on February 29, 2016
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:21 PM on February 29, 2016
Another red flag - rehomes his dog when life gets too busy. You did the right thing! Hug.
posted by peanut butter milkshake at 10:46 PM on February 29, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by peanut butter milkshake at 10:46 PM on February 29, 2016 [15 favorites]
Yay!!!
My sister dated this dude and I'll tell ya, you're not missing a thing!
My brother started dating a girl he liked who had a dog. Then he got a dog. Now they are married with two smoochy dogs who sleep on the couch and go on long hikes all the time!
hugs! Ice cream!
posted by jrobin276 at 11:15 PM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
My sister dated this dude and I'll tell ya, you're not missing a thing!
My brother started dating a girl he liked who had a dog. Then he got a dog. Now they are married with two smoochy dogs who sleep on the couch and go on long hikes all the time!
hugs! Ice cream!
posted by jrobin276 at 11:15 PM on February 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Totally off topic but
pup says -smooch-
Hope she can make herself useful as guy-magnet and find someone who appreciates both our affections! :p
posted by LadyAerin at 11:56 PM on February 29, 2016 [39 favorites]
pup says -smooch-
Hope she can make herself useful as guy-magnet and find someone who appreciates both our affections! :p
posted by LadyAerin at 11:56 PM on February 29, 2016 [39 favorites]
She is GORGEOUS! I'm so happy for you both that you dodged a bullet. That guy sounded like bad news. I suggest going to a dog park and finding another dog loving dude to share your time with. That way you already know he's cool with having your adorable pup on dates.
posted by lunastellasol at 1:28 AM on March 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by lunastellasol at 1:28 AM on March 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
C,WAA! I'm glad you did the right thing by yourself and your dogs.
posted by SillyShepherd at 2:11 AM on March 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by SillyShepherd at 2:11 AM on March 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
I agree with your instincts and it's great that you are listening to your feelings (women are so often conditioned to rationalise other people's crazy pants behaviour!)
Dog is adorbs.
posted by like_neon at 2:50 AM on March 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
Dog is adorbs.
posted by like_neon at 2:50 AM on March 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
He said it was a hypothetical situation, how can you expect me tell to you how I will act in the future?
Oh wow, people who use that phrase are just the worst. Good job getting yourself and that sweet puppy away from him!
posted by teremala at 6:26 AM on March 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh wow, people who use that phrase are just the worst. Good job getting yourself and that sweet puppy away from him!
posted by teremala at 6:26 AM on March 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is a happy ending! I'm really relieved for you. Now you have room for someone awesome in your life! (And that adorable puppy will be a total magnet.)
posted by Vaike at 7:14 AM on March 1, 2016
posted by Vaike at 7:14 AM on March 1, 2016
when he gets his German Shepard, she will be a guard dog that lives outside only
This is a good way to have an unhappy dog or, if you're lucky, just a problematic one.
As others have said, dogs are pack animals. They are VERY social and we've evolved and bred them to be even more social. Dogs NEED their people. A dog left outside all the time is going assume that his job is to guard the house. He is going to do this by barking at everything and putting on reactive aggression displays (pacing back and forth when people/dogs walk past, growling, snarling, and snapping at anyone that gets close. And if someone manages to get too close, they're going to get bitten.
When there isn't anything around to guard the house from, a highly intelligent, high energy dog like a German Sheppard is going to turn destructive. The dog will dig holes in your yard until it looks like the moon, chew everything that can be chewed, and generally cause problems. While a German Sheppard is a particularly bad breed to live that way, every breed of dog will react the same way, it's a just a matter of degree.
Frankly, if this were a friend or family member of mine, I would tell them, in no uncertain terms, that they are not allowed to have a dog if they intend to treat it that way.
You're right, this guy is a few tennis balls short of a game of fetch.
Feed your dog less food and your dog gets thinner and it's poops get smaller. Feed it more and it gets fat and the poops get larger. My dog is 85Lbs (and dense). It's tough to see because her fur is so think but she is pretty trim (on purpose because she is less likely to have hip issues later in life as a result). I feed her a really good, grain free, dog food which has more nutrition and less filler than the cheap stuff which means a lot less of the food she eats comes out the other end as poop. I take her for a walk each morning where she poops once and it's a handful of hard little nuggets of digestive efficiency. She hard started gaining weight and my vet told me that it was starting to be a concern so I fed her a bit less and she thinned right up (oh how I wish it was that easy for people). People need to remember that dogs are opportunistic hunters. So, if a dog has just eaten the largest meal it's ever eaten and you asked the (now magically talking dog) if it was hungry, the reply would always be at least, "I could eat." Dogs don't beg for food because they're hungry, they do it because they think they have a chance of success and THAT is why dogs get fat. Food isn't love.
She gets another walk at night and she poops about half the time on that walk. Other than that, she spends basically all her time inside. She is an Akita, a spitz breed from a Mountainous region in Japan and she is very much a cold weather dog. Her ideal room temperature seems to be about 50F. We sometimes let her run around the back yard by herself and she likes running around in the snow and stuff but it doesn't take long for her to start to miss us and come to the door to bet let back into the sweltering, 68F of our house. She'd rather be with her people than be a comfortable temperature.
TL:DR
1. It's mean to separate a dog from it's people. Don't be mean to dogs.
2. The type and quantity of food you feed the dog has a lot of influence on the volume of poop.
3. Dogs get fat because their people feed them too much, not from living inside (just like people).
posted by VTX at 9:06 AM on March 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is a good way to have an unhappy dog or, if you're lucky, just a problematic one.
As others have said, dogs are pack animals. They are VERY social and we've evolved and bred them to be even more social. Dogs NEED their people. A dog left outside all the time is going assume that his job is to guard the house. He is going to do this by barking at everything and putting on reactive aggression displays (pacing back and forth when people/dogs walk past, growling, snarling, and snapping at anyone that gets close. And if someone manages to get too close, they're going to get bitten.
When there isn't anything around to guard the house from, a highly intelligent, high energy dog like a German Sheppard is going to turn destructive. The dog will dig holes in your yard until it looks like the moon, chew everything that can be chewed, and generally cause problems. While a German Sheppard is a particularly bad breed to live that way, every breed of dog will react the same way, it's a just a matter of degree.
Frankly, if this were a friend or family member of mine, I would tell them, in no uncertain terms, that they are not allowed to have a dog if they intend to treat it that way.
You're right, this guy is a few tennis balls short of a game of fetch.
Feed your dog less food and your dog gets thinner and it's poops get smaller. Feed it more and it gets fat and the poops get larger. My dog is 85Lbs (and dense). It's tough to see because her fur is so think but she is pretty trim (on purpose because she is less likely to have hip issues later in life as a result). I feed her a really good, grain free, dog food which has more nutrition and less filler than the cheap stuff which means a lot less of the food she eats comes out the other end as poop. I take her for a walk each morning where she poops once and it's a handful of hard little nuggets of digestive efficiency. She hard started gaining weight and my vet told me that it was starting to be a concern so I fed her a bit less and she thinned right up (oh how I wish it was that easy for people). People need to remember that dogs are opportunistic hunters. So, if a dog has just eaten the largest meal it's ever eaten and you asked the (now magically talking dog) if it was hungry, the reply would always be at least, "I could eat." Dogs don't beg for food because they're hungry, they do it because they think they have a chance of success and THAT is why dogs get fat. Food isn't love.
She gets another walk at night and she poops about half the time on that walk. Other than that, she spends basically all her time inside. She is an Akita, a spitz breed from a Mountainous region in Japan and she is very much a cold weather dog. Her ideal room temperature seems to be about 50F. We sometimes let her run around the back yard by herself and she likes running around in the snow and stuff but it doesn't take long for her to start to miss us and come to the door to bet let back into the sweltering, 68F of our house. She'd rather be with her people than be a comfortable temperature.
TL:DR
1. It's mean to separate a dog from it's people. Don't be mean to dogs.
2. The type and quantity of food you feed the dog has a lot of influence on the volume of poop.
3. Dogs get fat because their people feed them too much, not from living inside (just like people).
posted by VTX at 9:06 AM on March 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
THANK GOD you and your dog dodged this bullet. Good work, you!
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 11:03 AM on March 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 11:03 AM on March 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Great job for avoiding this controlling guy!
posted by ukdanae at 3:22 AM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ukdanae at 3:22 AM on March 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
this guy is a few tennis balls short of a game of fetch
hehehe..... quoted for both truth and lols!
posted by easily confused at 5:59 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
hehehe..... quoted for both truth and lols!
posted by easily confused at 5:59 AM on March 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
That dog is so adorable and deserves to be around people who love her and think she's the best (so do you). Yay for you!
posted by lunasol at 5:11 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by lunasol at 5:11 PM on March 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
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This thread is closed to new comments.
(I think you both have mad ideas about dogs, and neither of you is more or less rational than the other. )
posted by taff at 6:49 PM on February 28, 2016 [41 favorites]