Resume updating for the second job
February 21, 2016 11:02 AM Subscribe
I'm one (non-academic) job post-PhD and am updating my resume. At what point do I start dropping things from undergrad(!) and the less interesting stuff from grad school? Do I drop GPAs? Is anyone really going to care that I organised a student seminar or did private tutoring now that I have clearly relevant experience (if they even cared before)?
I suppose this is mostly dictated by space. Apparently, a PhD entitles you to a second page (or so the career center at the university told me), which is good given how much space the education section takes. There's a reasonable case that teaching experience and the like are sources of relevant skills (my current job (and likely future jobs) entail(s) explaining technical things to non-technical audiences), but I'm a little worried that it'd be perceived as not relevant in a way that gets a pass when you don't have obviously relevant experience, but won't anymore.
In a similar vein, I had a scholarship in undergrad that was a fairly big deal. It might be worth something when applying to a job in California (where whoever's screening resumes would likely recognise it), but worry that people elsewhere would roll their eyes because who cares how awesome I was at 18? (I don't have an NSF fellowship or something from grad school to follow it up.)
I suppose this is mostly dictated by space. Apparently, a PhD entitles you to a second page (or so the career center at the university told me), which is good given how much space the education section takes. There's a reasonable case that teaching experience and the like are sources of relevant skills (my current job (and likely future jobs) entail(s) explaining technical things to non-technical audiences), but I'm a little worried that it'd be perceived as not relevant in a way that gets a pass when you don't have obviously relevant experience, but won't anymore.
In a similar vein, I had a scholarship in undergrad that was a fairly big deal. It might be worth something when applying to a job in California (where whoever's screening resumes would likely recognise it), but worry that people elsewhere would roll their eyes because who cares how awesome I was at 18? (I don't have an NSF fellowship or something from grad school to follow it up.)
Unless it is really impossible, keep it to one page. 20 years of work experience gets you to 2 pages, a Ph.D. doesn't (seriously, it's one extra line in your education section, not more). I do have my Ph.D. research listed in the jobs sections because it's relevant - if that or teaching experience is relevant for what you're applying for, keep it on there as a job, not as education.
GPA probably shouldn't have been there for the first post-Ph.D. job, so absolutely definitely drop it now. The undergrad award can stay if you have room for it after your relevant work experience, otherwise, it's not worth it. I worked in academia in California and can't think of any state-level scholarship with that I would recognize the name of, so I'm not sure you're right that people will be impressed by it.
Be very very wary of your school's career office - in general they are notoriously terrible and often give outdated or counterproductive advice. Start looking through askamanager's resume advice instead.
posted by brainmouse at 11:18 AM on February 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
GPA probably shouldn't have been there for the first post-Ph.D. job, so absolutely definitely drop it now. The undergrad award can stay if you have room for it after your relevant work experience, otherwise, it's not worth it. I worked in academia in California and can't think of any state-level scholarship with that I would recognize the name of, so I'm not sure you're right that people will be impressed by it.
Be very very wary of your school's career office - in general they are notoriously terrible and often give outdated or counterproductive advice. Start looking through askamanager's resume advice instead.
posted by brainmouse at 11:18 AM on February 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'd look at this at an entirely different way, OP, and I throw some ideas, but at the end of the day I think you would be best served by asking people in your targeted industry vs. us because you'll just get a poll of the audience in terms of what applies to their specific career/field.
In regards to CV and CV length - I've found out by talking to other people (people employed at the same level with the same background plus recruiters) in a nonacademic job field that CVs and/or longer resume (even longer than your 2-page limits) was appropriate and expected - but I'll emphasize that this applies to *my industry and a few others,* but would not be appropriate for other industries So find people in your respective field (or post a question - I'm applying for job X with title X -have this academic background people from that field please reply). Recruiters really can be helpful for this because it's a win-win for them if you get placed (ie, I've had recruiters show me other people's application material, with their names and identifying info removed.)
Also, if it is used in your industry, look into functional resumes (ie, have a a section specifically for teaching and put the relevant criteria/sections for a job at the very front). If you want to emphasize teaching technical info to a non-technical audience, I'd also suggest emphasizing any courses that you taught or designed for non-major undergrads when you were in grad school or in any academic positions if you held them.
Just replying to this as a poll the audience type thing - I've removed GPA from undergrad and grad school (the jobs that want it will specifically request a full transcript, and those that don't need it don't care). I also have removed almost everything from undergrad yrs with the exception of University, degree (subject), and that's it.
posted by Wolfster at 11:38 AM on February 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
In regards to CV and CV length - I've found out by talking to other people (people employed at the same level with the same background plus recruiters) in a nonacademic job field that CVs and/or longer resume (even longer than your 2-page limits) was appropriate and expected - but I'll emphasize that this applies to *my industry and a few others,* but would not be appropriate for other industries So find people in your respective field (or post a question - I'm applying for job X with title X -have this academic background people from that field please reply). Recruiters really can be helpful for this because it's a win-win for them if you get placed (ie, I've had recruiters show me other people's application material, with their names and identifying info removed.)
Also, if it is used in your industry, look into functional resumes (ie, have a a section specifically for teaching and put the relevant criteria/sections for a job at the very front). If you want to emphasize teaching technical info to a non-technical audience, I'd also suggest emphasizing any courses that you taught or designed for non-major undergrads when you were in grad school or in any academic positions if you held them.
Just replying to this as a poll the audience type thing - I've removed GPA from undergrad and grad school (the jobs that want it will specifically request a full transcript, and those that don't need it don't care). I also have removed almost everything from undergrad yrs with the exception of University, degree (subject), and that's it.
posted by Wolfster at 11:38 AM on February 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Keep your major, any important projects like a thesis. Omit anything social that wasn't paid employment. Keep summer jos, especially if relevant.
posted by SemiSalt at 12:02 PM on February 21, 2016
posted by SemiSalt at 12:02 PM on February 21, 2016
Response by poster: GPA probably shouldn't have been there for the first post-Ph.D. job
That's what I thought. Then I went to the job fairs. The people at university career fairs don't realise really high grad school GPAs are typical--you could noticeably see their eyes get big. If they're the first hurdle to get past, you might as well make that work in your favor.
(On the other hand, when the career center told me I should claim to know Matlab because I TAed a course that used it, it was obvious they were just wrong.)
posted by hoyland at 12:10 PM on February 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's what I thought. Then I went to the job fairs. The people at university career fairs don't realise really high grad school GPAs are typical--you could noticeably see their eyes get big. If they're the first hurdle to get past, you might as well make that work in your favor.
(On the other hand, when the career center told me I should claim to know Matlab because I TAed a course that used it, it was obvious they were just wrong.)
posted by hoyland at 12:10 PM on February 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lots of dissertation research and other research leading to publications, experience, knowledge, and connections in graduate school and academia is not paid employment. You could be president of your disciplinary association or editor of the fields most prestigious journal and not get paid (not that a grad student would typically be doing those things). Don't treat paid employment as a hard and fast rule.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:10 PM on February 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:10 PM on February 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Are you looking for academic or non-academic jobs?
posted by ChuraChura at 1:55 PM on February 21, 2016
posted by ChuraChura at 1:55 PM on February 21, 2016
If you're applying for academic jobs you need the full two pages and you should list anything from graduate school on. If you're applying for jobs outside of academia figure out what sort of resume they expect, and try to keep it brief.
posted by mareli at 2:07 PM on February 21, 2016
posted by mareli at 2:07 PM on February 21, 2016
It depends a great deal on what you are applying for and the circumstances in question. Resumes should always be customized for the job that you are seeking. If you are trying to transition out of something and into something else, you approach that differently than if you are continuing forward on the same general career path within a single field.
posted by Michele in California at 2:24 PM on February 21, 2016
posted by Michele in California at 2:24 PM on February 21, 2016
It seems pretty clear that the question is not about applying for an academic job. In that setting, restricting to 2 pages would be downright bizarre.
posted by yarntheory at 3:46 PM on February 21, 2016
posted by yarntheory at 3:46 PM on February 21, 2016
Response by poster: As yarntheory surmised, I have no intention of applying for an academic job.
posted by hoyland at 7:33 PM on February 21, 2016
posted by hoyland at 7:33 PM on February 21, 2016
I don't get too many Ph.D.s applying, but if I did I'd want to see it listed as just another line in education (with dates, school, focus). If you were applying outside the obvious field, I wouldn't be too surprised to see a little elaboration on "course work in: [stuff that might be relevant to me]" if there was any.
I would not want to see a list of everything you've published (which I have seen before) unless it is relevant to me. That could save some space if you condensed that to 'X published works' or something like that.
The other stuff, student seminars, etc... no. Don't care unless you're applying to an event coordinator job. Also don't care about GPA on the resume - your transcript will have it and I'll see it eventually.
Go heavier on the more recent employment. What accomplishments there are relevant to me? (aka: what have you done for me lately?)
posted by ctmf at 8:34 PM on February 21, 2016
I would not want to see a list of everything you've published (which I have seen before) unless it is relevant to me. That could save some space if you condensed that to 'X published works' or something like that.
The other stuff, student seminars, etc... no. Don't care unless you're applying to an event coordinator job. Also don't care about GPA on the resume - your transcript will have it and I'll see it eventually.
Go heavier on the more recent employment. What accomplishments there are relevant to me? (aka: what have you done for me lately?)
posted by ctmf at 8:34 PM on February 21, 2016
My rule for number of pages is to keep it as brief as possible and trim off the non-essentials and keep to the pages required for that. So having a PhD isn't "worth" an extra page, a PhD takes up 3-5 lines in a CV. Having 10 publications and two postdocs along with the PhD means that you need two pages. Also I didn't think you got a GPA for graduate school. I mean I only took 5 classes in the first year of my PhD and then worked in the lab after that until I was done at the end of 7 years. During those years I picked up a lot of skills, but on my CV I only highlight the PhD specific ones. (ie everyone knows I can use excel and word (I'm not my 99 year old grandmother))
I tend to mix employment with academics, but that is probably because my PhD working in the lab was both employment and academics. In a similar vein my employment as a postdoc was very similar with my PhD work, just with extra skills thrown on top.
For your situation, unless you have a large number of publications I bet you can fit everything on one page. Don't bother with GPA and listing the classes you've taken etc. Do Include your thesis topic and focus on the skills you learned during your PhD. Include skills you learned where relevant.
posted by koolkat at 7:08 AM on February 22, 2016
I tend to mix employment with academics, but that is probably because my PhD working in the lab was both employment and academics. In a similar vein my employment as a postdoc was very similar with my PhD work, just with extra skills thrown on top.
For your situation, unless you have a large number of publications I bet you can fit everything on one page. Don't bother with GPA and listing the classes you've taken etc. Do Include your thesis topic and focus on the skills you learned during your PhD. Include skills you learned where relevant.
posted by koolkat at 7:08 AM on February 22, 2016
The very general rule for professional resumes is one page for every 10 years of work experience.
As a hiring manager (I Am Not Your Hiring Manager), I would not want to see a full CV with every award you've won or article you've published. Your teaching experience is good, though, since that is work experience.
Actually, since you are applying to jobs where you need to translate technical concepts so that regular people can understand this, you can actually use your resume to show how you do that. Instead of listing every publication, have a sub-heading for research, and talk about the research you have done, in a non-technical way.
I would suggest you look at a lot of resumes - sample ones online, get friends in your field to show you theirs, etc. Get a sense for what's done in your field and in the professional, non-academic world in general.
posted by lunasol at 8:59 AM on February 22, 2016
As a hiring manager (I Am Not Your Hiring Manager), I would not want to see a full CV with every award you've won or article you've published. Your teaching experience is good, though, since that is work experience.
Actually, since you are applying to jobs where you need to translate technical concepts so that regular people can understand this, you can actually use your resume to show how you do that. Instead of listing every publication, have a sub-heading for research, and talk about the research you have done, in a non-technical way.
I would suggest you look at a lot of resumes - sample ones online, get friends in your field to show you theirs, etc. Get a sense for what's done in your field and in the professional, non-academic world in general.
posted by lunasol at 8:59 AM on February 22, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
So here's what I do. I keep a CV that has EVERYTHING. That's the only CV I add things to. I don't remove anything. I keep that updated. Then whenever I need a CV for something, I take that CV, save it with a new name and start cutting stuff. Because there are some things I'm pretty much always going to cut (e.g. undergrad stuff), I have those highlighted in my full CV, just to make it easier to find and cut. Then I might cut other things depending on the purpose.
Do this and that way you can leave your California scholarship in when applying for jobs in California, or leave in that one really relevant volunteer thing when it's especially salient to a job, or change publications to "relevant publications" and leave only the relevant ones for a particular job.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:11 AM on February 21, 2016 [17 favorites]