Quitting job without another lined up - yay or nay?

February 16, 2016 8:33 AM

My job's pretty bad. I've detailed it here before, but now that I've regained some of my self-confidence, I'm ready to make the leap out of here.

The job I'm in has taken a serious toll on my health, and I want to quit before having another job because I just don't see any other way of going about this.

So here's the story, or at least some of it. I'm a guy, but I was sexually harassed by two of my female managers. It wasn't fun, because one of the managers had this sadistic, predatory psychosexual angle to it--she even moved my cubicle right outside her office and would stare at me as I walked by. She'd humiliate me in meetings for kicks, other co-workers would go along with it, that sort-of wonderful thing.

Other manager, my direct supervisor, lied to me about who she was when I first got the job. Acted like my best friend, pretended to have a totally different personality and history than she really did (which conveniently mirrored my own), and since I became estranged from my parents, I guess there was some need inside of me that I was unaware of but she could see plain as day. I also had undiagnosed PTSD at the time, which never affected previous jobs, but she caught onto it and had fun using my issues to torment me, with other co-workers joining in. One co-worker, my supervisor's right hand woman, was laughing about a video she watched of dogs mauling a body apart. Another dude writes novels where he becomes a serial killer as if it were a good thing (and even has pictures of serial killers posted outside of his cubicle wall). These are not nice people.

Did the usual thing, reported this stuff to HR, and HR joined in the retaliation, doing sham investigations, threatening to assassinate my character and get me into deep shit for made-up stuff (and considering the character of the people I'm dealing with, I can totally see them doing it, they do not give a fuck, are vicious, and seem to enjoy destroying people; which is part of the stress of working here!).

These guys broke so many laws it's not even funny, and what they did to me even meets the ridiculously high standards of employment case law. They pretty much handled this in the worst way possible. I talked to a few attorneys and they said they had a strong case, but suing does nothing to help my life or situation in the present and near future.

Other highlights: being called a "fag" by one of my co-workers because I was working on a woman's category that my manager gave me, all sorts of crazy shit, I won't detail it here, but it's all in this sort-of style. Another co-worker spread a rumor that I had herpes. I don't know, these people are messed up, and the fact that I took it forced me to confront some pretty dark truths about my life, which added another level of mind-rending stress.

After enduring this I almost ended up hospitalized a few times with weird ailments. I started tearing at my skin in my sleep due to the stress, which ended up giving me a staph infection which was 3 days away from blood poisoning (and I got to have a piece of David Cronenberg body horror of my very own).

Now I'm a broken down, miserable, shadow of my former self and my health is in danger. I stayed in this job because I had a fucked up, abusive upbringing that made this stuff seem like normal; and my brothers were harassing me regularly on the phone since cutting contact with my parents, so I was getting sadistic, manipulative abuse from two angles. My older brother even encouraged me to stay in this place knowing everything that happened to me here, and the danger my health has been in.

So I finally cut my family out of my life, and I'm rediscovering my confidence. Now I feel like I can finally get the hell out of here before this job kills me, which worries me since on Monday I started experiencing heavy chest pains which I've still got going on.

All the advice I've found on Metafilter, and elsewhere, says I shouldn't quit a job without another lined up, no matter how bad the situation is. I'm thinking, screw that, I don't want to end up dead. There's a 0% chance of finding a new job working in this environment, and a 100% chance of me developing some truly serious medical issues. I figure if I quit I'll at least have a fighting chance.

More details:

Positives:

* 6 months of expenses saved up
* Several big-name corporations on my resume
* College degree and an advanced degree
* I'm normally a high-energy, type A person, so I have no problem working on my own without structure, and I'm fine taking bold, yet calculated risks (which is stuff that's been buried under this abuse garbage), so I can get pretty creative with job hunting
* Live in an area where there are tons of jobs, and I'm currently getting hit up by recruiters for jobs that pay almost twice what I'm making now

Negatives:

* My job skills are a little out of date in my field, so I need to find a way to brush them up (though it might not even be necessary since I just need to find a job that can keep a roof over my head and food on the table while I plot longer-term career moves, and those are out there)
* No family, spouse, or friends to support me
* Socially isolated to an unhealthy degree, though I'm finding I'm actually a pretty outgoing person, so I might be able to get out of that rut soon, but it won't happen until I get out of this job and recover my health
* My health is on the rocks, but I normally love exercising and playing sports, I just let that part of my life die while being crushed by the insanity and stress of this job
* Network is pretty slim, though there are some things there I could tap into
* Currently going through some kind-of awakening in my life and coming to terms with my apparently uncommonly fucked up family and upbringing

Any thoughts or ideas on this? I want to hand in my letter of resignation today, but I would like to hear outside opinions to see if there are some things I'm missing.

Thanks!

posted by gehenna_lion to Work & Money (27 answers total)

Six months of savings?

Quit today, get home, relax, and tomorrow morning write back all of those recruiters and get those balls rolling.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:43 AM on February 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

With six month's expenses saved up and a good job outlook balanced against your mental health, my vote is on quitting.

Take a week off to recover, then get back on the job application train.
posted by Karaage at 8:44 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

There's a 0% chance of finding a new job working in this environment, ..... Live in an area where there are tons of jobs, and I'm currently getting hit up by recruiters for jobs that pay almost twice what I'm making now

These two statements are at odds and having a current job really is a big deal when job-hunting. So why wait to get the ball rolling with these recruiters? Even if you decide tomorrow to walk away, get the recruiters started today.
posted by headnsouth at 8:49 AM on February 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

How much vacation/sick leave do you have?

Go see a mental health professional. Now. Get them to take you into their care for depression, PTSD, whatever, because you need it anyway. Get them to submit a leave of absence to your employer under FMLA. You'll be paid out of your vacation and sick leave during that time until it is drained. While you are on leave and in medical care, start applying for jobs. Resign. Find part time work doing something less stressful to supplement your income while you job search. Do you have a decent car? Can you LYFT or UBER in your city?
posted by Young Kullervo at 8:51 AM on February 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

Response by poster: These two statements are at odds and having a current job really is a big deal when job-hunting. So why wait to get the ball rolling with these recruiters? Even if you decide tomorrow to walk away, get the recruiters started today.

Right now as I'm sitting here at my desk I'm shaking and feel like throwing up. When I go home after a day here my mind is spinning and I freak out about returning. That's what I mean about 0% chance. This job also eats up 70 hours of my week so I only have about 1 hour of free time at the end of the day, which I usually spend eating and trying to hold onto my sanity.

Like I'm not kidding you, this place is destroying me. At one of my past jobs, in a far nicer environment, I dated, had a social life, studied and did well on the LSATs and got into a good law school with scholarships, all the while performing well at my job. Here I'm just a broken down wreck about to end up in the hospital.

Anyway, I won't make this thread into a back and forth, just wanted to get that out there.

Also about suing, my savings will run out before the lawsuit even goes anywhere, and I don't have the money to hire an attorney and pay for expenses. The corporation I work for is notorious for sand-bagging lawsuits, because apparently they get a lot of them ... these are vicious, cold-blooded warriors of defending litigation. I saw some of their litigation strategies while researching my case, these people go all out to get their fingers into every aspect of your life.
posted by gehenna_lion at 8:54 AM on February 16, 2016

If that last comment is honest and not hyperbole, I give you my permission (nay, encouragement) to give notice before the end of the workday today.

That much misery plus 6 months savings equals GTFO. None of the other factors are really relevant in light of those two things.
posted by 256 at 8:57 AM on February 16, 2016

Quit that job. It's killing you. You have a good amount of savings.
posted by hazel79 at 8:57 AM on February 16, 2016

Oh, one thing though. I would definitely go to your boss and say that you are having health problems and would like to take an extended (couple of months) medical leave starting immediately.

If they say no, tell them that, in that case, you will need to tender your resignation because your health takes priority. If they say yes, then that is a much better situation to be in while looking for another job. Nothing is lost by asking.
posted by 256 at 9:02 AM on February 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

Like I'm not kidding you, this place is destroying me

My lord, quit!

But of course, quit in a professional manner with a "I want to take some time to discover a new area of interest" or something along those lines so that you can still presumably use them as a reference.
posted by Toddles at 9:03 AM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Best answer: I too would quit today.

Once you do, I suggest setting yourself a schedule as soon as you have calmed down. For example:

One week of doing nothing (ie just sleeping, going for walks, seeing friends, and watching TV)
The following week: get regular therapists appointments in the diary for the forseeable, sign up to at least one social meet-up, begin a light exercise regime
The following week: sign up with at least one recruitment agent, make enquiries to a volunteering opportunity you are interested in, exercise at least twice
...etc etc

I say this because your mental health (and physical by the sound of it) sounds quite fragile, and a shock to the system like this will most likely be positive but still be a shock to the system. It would be wise to have a plan in place in order to adjust yourself back into feeling ok as normal, and to gently get back into doing things that will help your state of mind, general health, and wellbeing (ie. socialising, exercise, volunteer work).
posted by greenish at 9:07 AM on February 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

Not to keep adding on, but here is the reason you should ask for the medical leave even if you know 100% they will say no.

First off, remember that you absolutely do not need to tell them what the medical issue is (i.e. that the job is causing you to have a mental breakdown). If they ask, just tell them it's personal and repeat your request for medical leave.

Now, assuming they say no. The biggest issue about quitting without another job lined up in your situation (i.e. with savings and good job prospects) is facing the question in a job interview of why you left your last job. Contrast the following two options.

"The job was killing me and I just needed to get out of there. The office was hostile and I couldn't handle it."

vs

"I had a medical issue that prevented me from working for a short time. My previous job would not grant me medical leave, so I was forced to resign. My medical issue has since been treated and I am fit to return to work."

If you go to even one therapist appointment after quitting, you can use the second answer 100% secure in the knowledge that it is the truth.
posted by 256 at 9:17 AM on February 16, 2016 [23 favorites]

Response by poster: Not to keep adding on, but here is the reason you should ask for the medical leave even if you know 100% they will say no.

You don't get paid on medical leave, you also have to qualify for disability, which the state has to review and approve of; it's also like 63% of your salary. I already tried this and I got better while I was on it, but all the gains were lost within the first week of returning... so it really just drained my bank account. Within that month I couldn't find a decent therapist with any openings, so that strategy was a big stinker.

OK, I'm done responding, for real this time.
posted by gehenna_lion at 9:27 AM on February 16, 2016

There is a difference between official medical disability leave and just taking an unpaid leave for health reasons (which is entirely at the discretion of your employer and you don't have to qualify for anything). You can ask for the latter and, whether they say yes or no, you are still in a better position than if you just quit.

Oh, and you should definitely NOT return to this job even if they grant the leave. Think of it as quitting and work on what you need to do to get better and get a new job.
posted by 256 at 9:33 AM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

How medical leave works: you tell a doctor what's up, and they write a note recommending that you take time off. Whether this is paid time or not, you're still technically "employed." To get paid while on medical leave, you either a) use your paid sick leave and b) use your vacation time or c) use your state's short-term disability leave, if you employer participates in that.

One benefit of medical leave is that your employer must honor their part of the bargain where medical insurance premiums are concerned. So if you are being paid from sick or vacation pay (and I think disability pay?), they deduct your premium from that paycheck as per usual. If you quit or go on unpaid leave, you are responsible for the entire premium OR finding your own insurance.

So if you have paid leave, make them pay you to stay home, recover, and find a new job: call in sick tomorrow and make a doctor's appointment, even if it's at urgent care. Before your third consecutive day off, call in and tell them your doctor needs you to stay home on FMLA. Fill out the paperwork, then call some recruiters. Quit the day before your paid leave runs out; never return.

If you don't have paid leave and really all you have is six months of expenses....just quit already! Do it!
posted by blnkfrnk at 10:33 AM on February 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ask for medical leave, ask for as much as you can get - and then quit when that runs out.

I would try to play the system at the end for everything you can get - while of course not lying or stealing.

You might do some other things first:

1. Get a checkup and any other medical things while you have insurance.

2. Consider trying to get a line of credit at the bank while you're still employed. Tell the bank that you're thinking about remodeling your house and that your father (or other authority figure like a lawyer) suggested a line of credit. It costs nothing to get, and it means that you can go a month or two longer without hitting your credit cards.


You have six months' living expenses in the bank, you smart cookie you, so you can definitely just fuck off with no notice.

If asked at an interview say, "Well, the company wasn't doing so well financially, and I had a bunch of money saved so..." Skip all the "they are crazy" stuff - no matter how true it was.

Saying you felt they were going to lose money, and you were out of there, because you had cash, makes you seem strong and a good planner.

(Oh, and consider a lawsuit - but only if you can get in, do it, and get out. Also, remember that that will appear on your record for future jobs...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:38 AM on February 16, 2016

> "I had a medical issue that prevented me from working for a short time. My previous job would not grant me medical leave, so I was forced to resign. My medical issue has since been treated and I am fit to return to work."

I don't think either of these strategies are a good one. In 2016, it's a buyer's market for employment - even the hint of any problem will make them perhaps look elsewhere.

I still recommend sticking with, "I felt the company [or, your division in the company] was going nowhere, and I had money saved, so...." unless you're forced to reveal your weakness. It's much stronger to say, "I left, because I felt they were financial losers, and I didn't need the money..."
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:47 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Do you have any vacation time saved up? If you do have vacation time set up, what's the process for using it? If you have to give advanced notice, and get it approved, then that's not so helpful. If you can say, "I'm taking x days of vacation time starting tomorrow" then do that. Same thing with sick leave.

But even if that's not feasible, yes, absolutely quit this job. You have 6 months of savings, and it's sounds like you have good job prospects, so by all means, get out of there now. This job sounds like it's destroying your health (mental and physical), and I can understand why it would because it sounds absolutely toxic and horrible and just bad on so many levels.

And while conventional mefi wisdom is "Don't quit until something else is lined up," I sort of feel like this is more similar to the questions where someone is living in a toxic/abusive home. With questions like that, almost every answer is some variation of "Do everything possible to get out of that living situation right now." This is kind of like that, only you still get to keep your living situation!

Oh, and in terms of spinning this in job interviews, I wouldn't get into blaming it on your health or trashing your (soon to be) former employers. Use some variation of "I outgrew the position" or "I wanted a chance to expand my horizons" or even "Circumstances shifted and I no longer felt it was a good fit."

Also, after you take a week or so to recover, while you do your job searching, maybe spend some time brushing up on certain skills or expanding your skill set. Then, in interviews you can say that you quit your job so you would have the time to "learn x" or whatever.
posted by litera scripta manet at 11:58 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

If it was me, I would walk out today, send an email saying I quit, and never see those people again except to get my last check.

Handing in your resignation today works too, as long as you stick to it. These people have head fucked you. They will probably try to talk you (bully you, cajole you, deceive you) out of quitting. Do not let this happen.

It does sound like this job is destroying you. Getting out is the most important thing. All other details are secondary.

Once out, I agree with taking some time off to recover, at least a week, maybe as much as a month. Get some exercise, get out of the house, don't sit in front of the computer all day.

You let this get way worse than you should have. You don't have to do it right away, but go back over what all happened, and figure out where should have set boundaries better. Don't let something like this happen again.
posted by mattu at 12:55 PM on February 16, 2016

I think this is one of the few cases in which I'd say go ahead and quit. Normally I agree that it is best to find a job while you're employed, even if the current job sucks, but with 70 hour weeks I don't see how you can reasonably do that (unless you can employ the "give no fucks, fire me if you dare" strategy).

This is beyond the usual work doldrums, this is in "you're impacting your physical health" territory. Get outta there and work on finding a new job that sucks less. In the meantime, though, respond to those recruiters!
posted by zug at 4:34 PM on February 16, 2016

You sound sick. Tell them you're sick and go home right now. Call in sick tomorrow.

Then, try to be strategic. Accrued medical paid time off is paid time off. And you keep your medical benefits while you are on it. Set an ironclad commitment in your head that you're leaving, but take whatever sick time you have first. I'm not advising something unethical; you legitimately need that time to recuperate your health. Similarly with disability: 63% of your salary is more than 0% of your salary, so while you're still getting over this experience, why not accept it if you qualify? You don't know when you will get a job, so get your money to stretch as far as possible.

Good luck. This sounds awful.
posted by salvia at 4:37 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm joining the chorus of "get out of there NOW!!" You know all the advice out there about having an emergency fund with 6 months of living expenses saved up? This is why: so that you can afford to get yourself out of situations like this one.

At the same time, it sounds like you may need to continue to take care of some health issues until you have recovered from this situation. Chest pains, infections, etc. are things that you may need follow up care for, in addition to any medications you may be taking. I can't tell if you are in the U.S., but if you are and you currently have employer-sponsored health coverage, then your best option is to request FMLA leave. This will enable continuation of your health benefits under your current employment terms, and also provide a framework for running out any remaining paid time off you have while still employed. This could be important because if this employer is as seedy as they sound, they might try to screw you over on paying out your accrued paid time off if you flat-out resigned. FMLA law also provides some protection against future retaliatory action.

Do not go back in to the office. Call in sick and go to your doctor. Then call or email your HR department and let them know that regretfully an emerging medical situation requires that you take FMLA leave effective immediately. Get your doctor to submit a note. You're just looking to buy yourself whatever time you can. You've got nothing to lose with this.

Then, take a few days or more to completely clear your head. Get out of town, even, if it's safe to do so given your recent health symptoms. Create a real "break" that can signal to your body that you're free now. Then, go get the job you deserve.

One more thing: think about who in your life could be part of your support system as you get back on your feet. Between the crazy hours and the psychic trauma, this kind of work situation can be very isolating. But this is the time to help yourself remember who you are when you're not working and being abused. Find the people who can help you with that, and who would be willing to check in on you periodically to make sure that you're getting back into the groove when the time comes.
posted by shelbaroo at 5:16 PM on February 16, 2016

I just quit a job that had made me ill for a long time. Still recovering. No regrets. I will always be able to find another job but I will never be able to have another functional, healthy body. Your work situation sounds even more toxic than mine was. Leave right away.

I'm sorry this happened to you. Things will be better next time round.
posted by raw sugar at 5:17 PM on February 16, 2016

I once had a really crappy job working for a bunch of crooks; I snuck out early on a friday and never went back. it felt gooooood. You can do this!
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 7:47 PM on February 16, 2016

I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I have never heard of anyone who quit a job like this and regrets it. Even if it took them a few months to find something else. Their creep level you describe is so beyond, I would be tempted to live out some fantasy where I go to my bosses' office and slowly pour out a mug of coffee onto the floor, say "peace out losers", drop the mug like a mic, and walk out. Leave now. Just get up and leave.
posted by WeekendJen at 5:11 PM on February 17, 2016

The great thing about quitting a job full of people legitimately harassing you is that you probably don't care about getting the reference, so I think giving two weeks is optional. Just say your last day is Friday and let them scramble to figure out how to find another sucker to do your work.
posted by deathpanels at 6:27 PM on February 17, 2016

I'm not going to counsel you to keep this awful job, but be forewarned that recruiters and hiring managers are often less interested in people who aren't employed. There's not much logic to it, but it's a fact.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 9:44 AM on February 18, 2016

Response by poster: Not sure if anyone's going to see this, but here's an update on my situation:

I handed in my resignation and I am out of there starting .... now! After a few weeks of hardball negotiations, I was able to leave with 6 weeks of severance, extension of medical benefits, and unemployment. So it looks like I'll be OK for now.

As far as being unemployed goes, I just left a Fortune 300 corporation and my experience is somewhat in demand. I've seen co-workers who left without anything lined up and they found jobs within a month or two, so I think I'll be OK.

Thanks for the support, insight, and great words everyone.
posted by gehenna_lion at 11:11 AM on February 18, 2016 [8 favorites]