Is it reasonable to insist a recommendation letter stay confidential?
February 10, 2016 2:30 PM Subscribe
A high school student of mine (along with their parent) wants me to give him a letter of recommendation that I wrote about him for an internship program. I feel a little uncomfortable about that. I know it's within my rights, but is it unreasonable or extraordinary of me to refuse?
When I was in high school, it was my understanding that letters of recommendation were by default private, to allow recommenders to be honest in the letter without reservation. It was also my understanding that it would be a very unusual and potentially rude request to ask to have the letter.
Since becoming a teacher of high school upperclassmen, this is the most recent incident of several experiences where students of mine implicitly expected that I was going to give them the letter of recommendation, and it has me questioning whether my views are outdated.
The internship program doesn't have any clear public-facing information about where to send the letter of recommendation, so I e-mailed it to the program's main e-mail address, with a request for information if there is a better way to submit it. It's possible that the internship itself expects the student to collect and deliver the letters themselves - I don't know, and I haven't heard back from them.
I realize that I am not required to give him the letter, but I want to know whether the common wisdom of today indicates that I'm being unreasonable or unusual for refusing to do so.
Thank you!
When I was in high school, it was my understanding that letters of recommendation were by default private, to allow recommenders to be honest in the letter without reservation. It was also my understanding that it would be a very unusual and potentially rude request to ask to have the letter.
Since becoming a teacher of high school upperclassmen, this is the most recent incident of several experiences where students of mine implicitly expected that I was going to give them the letter of recommendation, and it has me questioning whether my views are outdated.
The internship program doesn't have any clear public-facing information about where to send the letter of recommendation, so I e-mailed it to the program's main e-mail address, with a request for information if there is a better way to submit it. It's possible that the internship itself expects the student to collect and deliver the letters themselves - I don't know, and I haven't heard back from them.
I realize that I am not required to give him the letter, but I want to know whether the common wisdom of today indicates that I'm being unreasonable or unusual for refusing to do so.
Thank you!
I think people ask so they know what is being said. They shouldn't expect to be able to edit what you say. But if it's possible you may be less than glowingly perfect, it's good that they know that in advance and can choose to ask someone else to write a "perfect" letter. Which makes these worthless and time wasting, but there you go.
posted by taff at 2:38 PM on February 10, 2016
posted by taff at 2:38 PM on February 10, 2016
When I applied for colleges over a decade ago, my high school teachers encouraged me to read their (glowing) recommendation letters, even though they were nominally private, so I don't think there is a general agreement that they should be private.
When the student asked for the recommendation letter, they should have instructed you on how to submit it. Usually for online applications there is a personal web link for references to fill out. If it's a paper application, the letters usually could be mailed separately. If you think the student or their parents are being cagey or withholding information from you on the application process, it's probably best to decline to write a recommendation.
posted by muddgirl at 2:39 PM on February 10, 2016
When the student asked for the recommendation letter, they should have instructed you on how to submit it. Usually for online applications there is a personal web link for references to fill out. If it's a paper application, the letters usually could be mailed separately. If you think the student or their parents are being cagey or withholding information from you on the application process, it's probably best to decline to write a recommendation.
posted by muddgirl at 2:39 PM on February 10, 2016
In high school, I did several times have to deliver a sealed and signed manila envelope containing a letter of recommendation to once office or another. If you're not comfortable with that, though, I'm sure there are ways to deliver it yourself, and tell the student you did so shouldn't be a problem.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:39 PM on February 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 2:39 PM on February 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
When I was in high school, it was my understanding that letters of recommendation were by default private, to allow recommenders to be honest in the letter without reservation. It was also my understanding that it would be a very unusual and potentially rude request to ask to have the letter.
I work in recruitment and this is how we treat references (with the caveat that they could be requested under freedom of information legislation so you want the honesty grounded in evidence & examples rather nebulous opinion).
So no, I don't think your views are outdated and unless you want to give it to the student, not for them to see.
posted by kitten magic at 2:39 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I work in recruitment and this is how we treat references (with the caveat that they could be requested under freedom of information legislation so you want the honesty grounded in evidence & examples rather nebulous opinion).
So no, I don't think your views are outdated and unless you want to give it to the student, not for them to see.
posted by kitten magic at 2:39 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
In one of my college classes, the professor talked about writing a glowing letter of recommendation for a student and the student coming back for a new letter of recommendation like every week or two for a new job or whatever and every letter of recommendation got shorter and shorter and shorter. He advised that if someone gives you a long, lovingly written letter of recommendation, you should photocopy it en masse to include with resumes and never bother the author again.
I am not saying he is right and you are wrong. I am just saying that maybe your student has this idea that he can copy it and reuse it and that this is standard practice. Which maybe it is and maybe it isn't, I don't know.
posted by Michele in California at 2:40 PM on February 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I am not saying he is right and you are wrong. I am just saying that maybe your student has this idea that he can copy it and reuse it and that this is standard practice. Which maybe it is and maybe it isn't, I don't know.
posted by Michele in California at 2:40 PM on February 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Oh, and yes-- several of my teachers encouraged me to read their letters (even though I was not supposed to!). So they may not realize that kind of laxity isn't normal in the real world.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:40 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by stoneandstar at 2:40 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
It is your letter, and you need not share it. I write a lot of these letters myself, and I normally don't copy the people I am recommending.
This is a personal call, in my view. If asked, which has not to date happened to me, I'd probably let the person I was recommending have a copy of the letter I wrote. I have a few of those in my own personal files from people who wrote letters for me under circumstances where I had to get the letter from them (e.g. letters I submitted with my law school application.)
You could also disclose your letter on conditions, for example that the student can't use it for anything other than the position for which you wrote it.
posted by bearwife at 2:40 PM on February 10, 2016
This is a personal call, in my view. If asked, which has not to date happened to me, I'd probably let the person I was recommending have a copy of the letter I wrote. I have a few of those in my own personal files from people who wrote letters for me under circumstances where I had to get the letter from them (e.g. letters I submitted with my law school application.)
You could also disclose your letter on conditions, for example that the student can't use it for anything other than the position for which you wrote it.
posted by bearwife at 2:40 PM on February 10, 2016
When I was a high school student I was given copies of a letter of recommendation in sealed envelopes. And I asked for one more than I needed and opened it, because I wanted to make sure that my teacher wasn't going to tank my chances of getting into a good college and drastically change my whole future for the worse with a single letter.
This was entirely paranoid and I had nothing to worry about, but just bear in mind that this letter matters a hell of a lot more to the student than it does to you, and I'm not surprised he wants to see it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:45 PM on February 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
This was entirely paranoid and I had nothing to worry about, but just bear in mind that this letter matters a hell of a lot more to the student than it does to you, and I'm not surprised he wants to see it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:45 PM on February 10, 2016 [12 favorites]
I realize that I am not required to give him the letter, but I want to know whether the common wisdom of today indicates that I'm being unreasonable or unusual for refusing to do so.
For what it's worth, I don't think you're being unreasonable, and if there's been a sudden turn around in recommendation letter etiquette, it's news to me.
(For background, I was a high school senior asking for recommendation letters about a decade ago, but I currently work in education and have dealt with recommendation letters for both high schoolers applying to college/other programs, and college students/post grads applying to grad school.)
I think you're well within your rights to refuse this request. If it is in fact required that the student delivers the letter themselves, then I would put it in a sealed envelope, and maybe put something like confidential over the sealed part or sign over the sealed part. (I believe colleges do something similar with sealed transcripts.)
Even if the letter is extremely positive, there are still probably students or parents who would take issue with it not being positive enough or positive in the right way. I also feel like this isn't a rule that's just a pointless formality. Whether or not someone is conscious of it, knowing that a student can or will see a recommendation letter will almost definitely affect how you write it.
Honestly, I'd be more inclined to do this for a college or post grad student, but much less so for a high school student, because I wouldn't want to deal with parents taking issue with a letter I wrote, but YMMV.
On preview: Like several other commenters, I had teachers who showed me their (very positive and flattering) recommendations that they wrote for me, but it was never something I requested, either directly or indirectly. I never in a million years would have asked, but I have a parent who is a professor so this kind of academic etiquette was made known to me from a very early age. Also I'm in the US. I have no idea if this varies in other countries/cultures.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:46 PM on February 10, 2016
For what it's worth, I don't think you're being unreasonable, and if there's been a sudden turn around in recommendation letter etiquette, it's news to me.
(For background, I was a high school senior asking for recommendation letters about a decade ago, but I currently work in education and have dealt with recommendation letters for both high schoolers applying to college/other programs, and college students/post grads applying to grad school.)
I think you're well within your rights to refuse this request. If it is in fact required that the student delivers the letter themselves, then I would put it in a sealed envelope, and maybe put something like confidential over the sealed part or sign over the sealed part. (I believe colleges do something similar with sealed transcripts.)
Even if the letter is extremely positive, there are still probably students or parents who would take issue with it not being positive enough or positive in the right way. I also feel like this isn't a rule that's just a pointless formality. Whether or not someone is conscious of it, knowing that a student can or will see a recommendation letter will almost definitely affect how you write it.
Honestly, I'd be more inclined to do this for a college or post grad student, but much less so for a high school student, because I wouldn't want to deal with parents taking issue with a letter I wrote, but YMMV.
On preview: Like several other commenters, I had teachers who showed me their (very positive and flattering) recommendations that they wrote for me, but it was never something I requested, either directly or indirectly. I never in a million years would have asked, but I have a parent who is a professor so this kind of academic etiquette was made known to me from a very early age. Also I'm in the US. I have no idea if this varies in other countries/cultures.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:46 PM on February 10, 2016
I write a lot of these things for graduating UGs. Students where I live have a legal right to ask for letters sent to the company they are applying to, so I make them available on request myself.
However, students don't have the right to act as a conduit for communication between me and a company requesting a reference, I would take it as unusual for them to ask and I insist on direct communication between me and the company. Anything else risks you being misrepresented and you have the right not to open yourself up to that.
posted by biffa at 2:46 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
However, students don't have the right to act as a conduit for communication between me and a company requesting a reference, I would take it as unusual for them to ask and I insist on direct communication between me and the company. Anything else risks you being misrepresented and you have the right not to open yourself up to that.
posted by biffa at 2:46 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
From your question it's not clear whether the student has asked to read them first, or if they just need a physical copy to have in their application materials. I had a few cases of the latter as a student, and in those cases I was given a sealed envelope with the letter inside. It's the honor system of course but may be a choice if you value the privacy of that communication.
As to the larger question of whether these are getting less private; I (in academia) haven't noticed any particular trend. I'd be more likely to say that you're dealing with kids who haven't learned the unspoken rules of the middle class either due to age or class background.
posted by tchemgrrl at 2:47 PM on February 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
As to the larger question of whether these are getting less private; I (in academia) haven't noticed any particular trend. I'd be more likely to say that you're dealing with kids who haven't learned the unspoken rules of the middle class either due to age or class background.
posted by tchemgrrl at 2:47 PM on February 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
Whenever I've had to get a recommendation letter from a professor, they've always let me read them. It's great that they do this, because it helped me avoid sending one out which was more like an unrecommendation letter. It's just like when you have to choose references for a job application. You're not going to include someone who is going to give you a bad reference.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 2:58 PM on February 10, 2016
posted by kinddieserzeit at 2:58 PM on February 10, 2016
From your question it's not clear whether the student has asked to read them first, or if they just need a physical copy to have in their application materials.
Exactly what I was going to ask. I've gotten many, many, many letters of recommendation for scholarship applications during university (not quite the same, I realize) and most of them explicitly asked for the student to submit letters along with the rest of the application, in a sealed envelope with the professor's signature across the seal. (Any without guidelines specified were usually done that way too since that was the default procedure). Occasionally one would require direct submission by the prof but that was rare. I never would have dreamed of opening one, not only for ethical reasons but also because the applications were really important and asking people for recommendation letters was way too excruciating to ruin one just for curiosity reasons.
posted by randomnity at 3:00 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Exactly what I was going to ask. I've gotten many, many, many letters of recommendation for scholarship applications during university (not quite the same, I realize) and most of them explicitly asked for the student to submit letters along with the rest of the application, in a sealed envelope with the professor's signature across the seal. (Any without guidelines specified were usually done that way too since that was the default procedure). Occasionally one would require direct submission by the prof but that was rare. I never would have dreamed of opening one, not only for ethical reasons but also because the applications were really important and asking people for recommendation letters was way too excruciating to ruin one just for curiosity reasons.
posted by randomnity at 3:00 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
My HS aged daughter has had to request confidential letters of recommendation for various things in the past two years. Each time, the recommenders have given her a photocopy of the letter they've written, without us asking for it. She actually won't read them, because they're supposed to be confidential and she feels like it would be wrong to do so.
posted by cooker girl at 3:03 PM on February 10, 2016
posted by cooker girl at 3:03 PM on February 10, 2016
"Its my policy to not provide a copy of the letter to the student so that I will not be pressured to provide a recommendation that I cannot stand behind. While I cannot show you the letter, you don't have anything to worry about."
posted by Ironmouth at 3:04 PM on February 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 3:04 PM on February 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
When I applied to grad school I didnt waive my right to see the letters, but I only asked to see them from the office of the place I attended after my acceptance. One of my instructors gave me his letter after he wrote it.
posted by brujita at 3:06 PM on February 10, 2016
posted by brujita at 3:06 PM on February 10, 2016
I teach at the college level rather than high school, but at that level I definitely consider letters confidential and do not share them with students except in unusual circumstances. For example, I had one student whose internship application would only let HIM upload the letter of recommendation into the system. I confirmed with them and that was their policy. I thought it was a stupid policy, but not enough so that I was going to prevent this kid from applying for the job. I sent it to him and asked him not to read it on his honor -- no idea if he did or not, obviously, but he seemed trustworthy.
I will also definitely give students printed letters in envelopes. I seal them and sign my signature over the seal so that it is obvious to the organization if the letter has been opened. Some applications do require printed letters like this (although it is less frequent these days), and it seems like a reasonably secure method (if not perfect, as showbiz_liz suggests).
Notably in both the "on your honor" email case and the signed envelope case, the student could in theory read my recommendation and decide not to send it on, but they would NOT be able to come back to me and complain without revealing what they did. Which in a lot of ways is what I would want to avoid!
One thing you might find helpful is to have a written letter of recommendation policy that you share with students and parents before requests occur. If you Google this you will probably find lots of examples from professors. You'll want to modify this to fit with the high school level (and some of the policies are over-the-top ridiculous), but I do think it can be a good thing to have a clear written policy to turn to if you've having the same issues crop up again and again. This could include things like the amount of lead time you need and your requirements for confidentiality. Then when people ask you can say "It's my policy not to do this, as I stated at the beginning of the semester, and to be fair to all students I follow this policy with everyone" rather than people feeling like you might be singling them out because you don't like them or have written a poor letter. One thing to include in that policy would be: when you ask me for a letter of recommendation, let me know the due date and the method of submission.
posted by rainbowbrite at 3:08 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I will also definitely give students printed letters in envelopes. I seal them and sign my signature over the seal so that it is obvious to the organization if the letter has been opened. Some applications do require printed letters like this (although it is less frequent these days), and it seems like a reasonably secure method (if not perfect, as showbiz_liz suggests).
Notably in both the "on your honor" email case and the signed envelope case, the student could in theory read my recommendation and decide not to send it on, but they would NOT be able to come back to me and complain without revealing what they did. Which in a lot of ways is what I would want to avoid!
One thing you might find helpful is to have a written letter of recommendation policy that you share with students and parents before requests occur. If you Google this you will probably find lots of examples from professors. You'll want to modify this to fit with the high school level (and some of the policies are over-the-top ridiculous), but I do think it can be a good thing to have a clear written policy to turn to if you've having the same issues crop up again and again. This could include things like the amount of lead time you need and your requirements for confidentiality. Then when people ask you can say "It's my policy not to do this, as I stated at the beginning of the semester, and to be fair to all students I follow this policy with everyone" rather than people feeling like you might be singling them out because you don't like them or have written a poor letter. One thing to include in that policy would be: when you ask me for a letter of recommendation, let me know the due date and the method of submission.
posted by rainbowbrite at 3:08 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I finished undergrad almost 20 years ago, but the default then was sealed recommendation letters, delivered directly to the recipient.
I do remember being in the room when one of my classmates opened a sealed letter he didn't need. This was from a professor from whom he got an "A" but who was very popular and considered a name professor and in high demand for a recommendation letter. All the letter said was "This student got an 'A' in my class. I don't know them at all."
Both the professor and student here were not especially emotionally communicative, so they were probably both poorly suited towards this game. That said, the way this is usually done is sealed letters, but recommenders signaling in so-many-words whether or not the recommendee should/should not be asking them for a letter.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 3:12 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I do remember being in the room when one of my classmates opened a sealed letter he didn't need. This was from a professor from whom he got an "A" but who was very popular and considered a name professor and in high demand for a recommendation letter. All the letter said was "This student got an 'A' in my class. I don't know them at all."
Both the professor and student here were not especially emotionally communicative, so they were probably both poorly suited towards this game. That said, the way this is usually done is sealed letters, but recommenders signaling in so-many-words whether or not the recommendee should/should not be asking them for a letter.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 3:12 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Are you me? Seriously, I was dealing this myself earlier this week when a student asked me to please email her a copy of my Common App recommendation for a scholarship application. I told her that, traditionally, selection committees require the letters to be sealed and signed across the back to prove their authenticity. (Well, that's no guarantee but often the status quo.) I said I'd be glad to give her a signed and sealed copy to include for this and any other scholarships she was applying for. It worked out without a hitch and I think she was happy with it. Heck, were she to open it later and look before sending, that's fine, too; I did what felt right to me and she can take it from there.
I think it's a little bit of everything: I, too, grew up to believe that recommendations were private unless it were a special situation that required advanced consent. However, I think people view these things differently now, and it's not something grounded in distrust or anything negative. Unless a recommendation must remain confidential, I believe it's fine to share if we feel comfortable. I've had recommenders give me copies of their letter for me, and I have always appreciated it.
I always tell a student that their recommendation is completely positive (if it weren't, I'd probably not agree to write it in the first place.) Yet I'd rather not simply email students my recommendation: I'm not comfortable with that at all but I'm willing to send as many recommendations as needed for the same student over the years. I'd possibly be OK with giving them a copy for their own reference. I think that student -- and quite likely yours, too -- are simply used to things being digital AND also don't want to repeatedly inconvenience us by asking. They also aren't as experienced with recommendations so there's probably less experience there. I've had students deal with so many technical problems and mix-ups that were no fault of their own. Sure, I've been annoyed to submit something yet again but it all becomes worth it in the end.
So many kids don't grow up in academic families and don't understand the process, which makes our role as teachers even more important. I'd use the question as an opportunity to have a conversation with that student about the usual protocol, why they'd like the copy, and the like. As much as I am a fan of working together with parents and being flexible to their requests, this is one area where I will not let myself feel pressured by the outside. I mean, writing recommendations is part of our job (I must have written a dozen this year!) but it's also voluntary. Parents can ask for a lot but pushing too hard is unwise because you truly can say no. Again, I really think this situation will be clearer once you have that conversation one-on-one. I'd also consider asking a colleague for their insight: they could have a great suggestion or know more about this particular situation.
Just some thoughts from the other side, too. I've chaired state-wide selection committees and have read some awful recommendations. They're not bad because they're negative but because they're not written very well or are too vague or are even downright weird. I will sometimes advise students on whom to ask to be their second recommender (without going into details why) because I know some teachers simply write better recommendations than others.
Finally, if this is bothering you, please don't let it discourage you either. I see these recommendations as a compliment to and confidence in our ability as teachers as well as a key step for helping students move on with their futures. Just because someone doesn't say thank you doesn't mean they're not grateful; I have to remind myself of this sometimes when a student asks at the last minute then gets a bit snippy while I'm jumping through hoops to get things done for them. I'd also like to end with an anecdote: last year a student asked me to write him a college recommendation and I did, although he had waited until the last minute and writing it for him felt much harder than usual. He was a good student but he sometimes had a negative attitude, although he certainly had improved over the years and I enjoyed having him in class.
This fall he was in a horrible car accident where a passenger died; he survived with major brain damage. His family has reached out to me and shared many stories that are heartwarming and meaningful and relate to what I taught him in school; in fact, these anecdotes are so kind and powerful that I have trouble listening and accepting the praise. I am so glad I wrote him that recommendation, and I am grateful I could help him start his post-high school journey, even if it may end up very different than anyone had anticipated. This situation right now sounds confusing and stressful; likely, they're coming to you from a good place but it's still demanding and feels like you're being asked to share something you'd prefer stay confidential. You can decide what to do in the moment and it may not feel ideal but things will likely work out, perhaps in even greater ways than you can imagine.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:28 PM on February 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think it's a little bit of everything: I, too, grew up to believe that recommendations were private unless it were a special situation that required advanced consent. However, I think people view these things differently now, and it's not something grounded in distrust or anything negative. Unless a recommendation must remain confidential, I believe it's fine to share if we feel comfortable. I've had recommenders give me copies of their letter for me, and I have always appreciated it.
I always tell a student that their recommendation is completely positive (if it weren't, I'd probably not agree to write it in the first place.) Yet I'd rather not simply email students my recommendation: I'm not comfortable with that at all but I'm willing to send as many recommendations as needed for the same student over the years. I'd possibly be OK with giving them a copy for their own reference. I think that student -- and quite likely yours, too -- are simply used to things being digital AND also don't want to repeatedly inconvenience us by asking. They also aren't as experienced with recommendations so there's probably less experience there. I've had students deal with so many technical problems and mix-ups that were no fault of their own. Sure, I've been annoyed to submit something yet again but it all becomes worth it in the end.
So many kids don't grow up in academic families and don't understand the process, which makes our role as teachers even more important. I'd use the question as an opportunity to have a conversation with that student about the usual protocol, why they'd like the copy, and the like. As much as I am a fan of working together with parents and being flexible to their requests, this is one area where I will not let myself feel pressured by the outside. I mean, writing recommendations is part of our job (I must have written a dozen this year!) but it's also voluntary. Parents can ask for a lot but pushing too hard is unwise because you truly can say no. Again, I really think this situation will be clearer once you have that conversation one-on-one. I'd also consider asking a colleague for their insight: they could have a great suggestion or know more about this particular situation.
Just some thoughts from the other side, too. I've chaired state-wide selection committees and have read some awful recommendations. They're not bad because they're negative but because they're not written very well or are too vague or are even downright weird. I will sometimes advise students on whom to ask to be their second recommender (without going into details why) because I know some teachers simply write better recommendations than others.
Finally, if this is bothering you, please don't let it discourage you either. I see these recommendations as a compliment to and confidence in our ability as teachers as well as a key step for helping students move on with their futures. Just because someone doesn't say thank you doesn't mean they're not grateful; I have to remind myself of this sometimes when a student asks at the last minute then gets a bit snippy while I'm jumping through hoops to get things done for them. I'd also like to end with an anecdote: last year a student asked me to write him a college recommendation and I did, although he had waited until the last minute and writing it for him felt much harder than usual. He was a good student but he sometimes had a negative attitude, although he certainly had improved over the years and I enjoyed having him in class.
This fall he was in a horrible car accident where a passenger died; he survived with major brain damage. His family has reached out to me and shared many stories that are heartwarming and meaningful and relate to what I taught him in school; in fact, these anecdotes are so kind and powerful that I have trouble listening and accepting the praise. I am so glad I wrote him that recommendation, and I am grateful I could help him start his post-high school journey, even if it may end up very different than anyone had anticipated. This situation right now sounds confusing and stressful; likely, they're coming to you from a good place but it's still demanding and feels like you're being asked to share something you'd prefer stay confidential. You can decide what to do in the moment and it may not feel ideal but things will likely work out, perhaps in even greater ways than you can imagine.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:28 PM on February 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
My favorite high school teacher not only wouldn't show us her letters but had us explicitly waive our right to request them under the freedom of information act. Her take was, I have to write a lot of letters, and if you have any doubts about the contents of yours, that is your problem and not mine. Ask another teacher if you don't trust me with your future, I write honest letters and the way I give myself the mental space to do that is that I'm sure you won't ever see them.
This was 10+ years ago but I'm reasonably sure she continued this policy until her retirement last year.
posted by town of cats at 3:46 PM on February 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
This was 10+ years ago but I'm reasonably sure she continued this policy until her retirement last year.
posted by town of cats at 3:46 PM on February 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
Responses above have much better insight into the landscape of what's done in this case, but I want to say that I was freely given my letters of recommendations for college applications to read some (!) years ago, and one in particular has been a source of strength and pride ever since. Words are powerful, and to be recognized and known as a person even more so.
These days, when I write a work reference for anyone, I share it with them for three reasons. I won't write one for someone I can't get behind; they should not be blindsided by anything in an interview process; and I want them to have something like what I received.
posted by vers at 4:01 PM on February 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
These days, when I write a work reference for anyone, I share it with them for three reasons. I won't write one for someone I can't get behind; they should not be blindsided by anything in an interview process; and I want them to have something like what I received.
posted by vers at 4:01 PM on February 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
Except for one or two scholarships 25 years ago, I have been shown and asked to provide pointers for every letter of recommendation since then.
As an educator, I'm told that being up front with the student is best. These days, they can just FOI (freedom of information request) the document and you can't go around disclosing information to third parties without permission. So clarity in disclosure is probably a good way to keep from being sued.
BTW, depending on jurisdiction, parents can't waive a minor's right to sue and a minor is not considered capable of waiving their own right.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 4:25 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
As an educator, I'm told that being up front with the student is best. These days, they can just FOI (freedom of information request) the document and you can't go around disclosing information to third parties without permission. So clarity in disclosure is probably a good way to keep from being sued.
BTW, depending on jurisdiction, parents can't waive a minor's right to sue and a minor is not considered capable of waiving their own right.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 4:25 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm with the overwhelming response above that your reaction is not at all unreasonable or unusual. Because of that, I'd like to second smorgasbord's point that this is a great learning opportunity for the student, and you're in a unique position to help him learn the subtle, unspoken etiquette that governs this sort of request.
In the "real world," your student would just offend someone by not understanding the rules here. And if you go along with his request, silently uncomfortable, he'll have no idea that it was anything but a routine transaction. (He'll probably just be puzzled that other students don't always ask for a copy.) But you know that he just has no idea how any of this works, and can work with him to make sure that he has a better shot at these sorts of interactions in the future. There is no way to work out these sorts of rules from first principles--someone has to tell you sometime.
The fact that the parent is involved makes this more complicated--maybe the parent knows better and is just being pushy, but more likely not. In either event, if your parents don't quite get the culture, and are telling you to ask for things people will be offended by, you're at an extra disadvantage. I'd discuss the letter solely with the student and let him carry home the message that "Hey, my teacher said that recommendation letters actually have this really weird culture around them and a lot of people will see it as rude to ask for a copy, so we might not want to do that unless someone offers. They say it's a really strong letter but they never show recommendation letters to students."
posted by cogitron at 4:52 PM on February 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
In the "real world," your student would just offend someone by not understanding the rules here. And if you go along with his request, silently uncomfortable, he'll have no idea that it was anything but a routine transaction. (He'll probably just be puzzled that other students don't always ask for a copy.) But you know that he just has no idea how any of this works, and can work with him to make sure that he has a better shot at these sorts of interactions in the future. There is no way to work out these sorts of rules from first principles--someone has to tell you sometime.
The fact that the parent is involved makes this more complicated--maybe the parent knows better and is just being pushy, but more likely not. In either event, if your parents don't quite get the culture, and are telling you to ask for things people will be offended by, you're at an extra disadvantage. I'd discuss the letter solely with the student and let him carry home the message that "Hey, my teacher said that recommendation letters actually have this really weird culture around them and a lot of people will see it as rude to ask for a copy, so we might not want to do that unless someone offers. They say it's a really strong letter but they never show recommendation letters to students."
posted by cogitron at 4:52 PM on February 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I (high school teacher) do not show letters of recommendation to my students, nor have I been asked to do so. I have had students ask for copies to mail for scholarship applications (college applications are all handled online through our school's Naviance software -- the few schools that don't accept them that way, well, I think they just haven't gotten recommendations, because I cannot even remember the last time I mailed one to a college), and I have either then gotten pre-addressed stamped envelopes from the kid and mailed them myself, or, if they had to be included in the same packet with the other application materials (rare), I have given the kid a sealed/signed-across-the-flap copy (with a notation that the letter is being hand-carried by the student).
Other teachers do show the letters to the kids/have them approve them, which is their choice, obviously, but not something I'm comfortable with (and I do think my letters are generally stronger than those -- it often seems like the teachers who do that do not know the students as well in the first place). It isn't the majority doing that, in my experience.
The students explicitly waive their right to see the letters on Naviance. I would not be comfortable writing for them if they did not.
posted by lysimache at 6:28 PM on February 10, 2016
Other teachers do show the letters to the kids/have them approve them, which is their choice, obviously, but not something I'm comfortable with (and I do think my letters are generally stronger than those -- it often seems like the teachers who do that do not know the students as well in the first place). It isn't the majority doing that, in my experience.
The students explicitly waive their right to see the letters on Naviance. I would not be comfortable writing for them if they did not.
posted by lysimache at 6:28 PM on February 10, 2016
I used to teach at a private high school which made a strong effort to shepherd students through the college application process. It was understood at this school that recommendation letters are confidential, and students were advised to check the box on their applications that (in theory, I'm not sure about the law here) waived their right to see the letters. The reason was not just to give teachers more room to be candid, but to strengthen the recommendation by making the recipient aware that the teacher had had no disincentive to be candid.
It's a bit like how my constitutional law professor explained Dartmouth v. Woodward back in college: by making contracts more binding, the Supreme Court took away a small power from contract holders (the power to renege) but thereby granted them a much greater power (by making their promises more valuable).
You could try explaining this to your student!
posted by aws17576 at 9:04 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's a bit like how my constitutional law professor explained Dartmouth v. Woodward back in college: by making contracts more binding, the Supreme Court took away a small power from contract holders (the power to renege) but thereby granted them a much greater power (by making their promises more valuable).
You could try explaining this to your student!
posted by aws17576 at 9:04 PM on February 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Your letter, your rules. I have never asked (nor particularly wanted) to see the contents of my rec letters.
posted by Standard Orange at 9:37 PM on February 10, 2016
posted by Standard Orange at 9:37 PM on February 10, 2016
the professor talked about writing a glowing letter of recommendation for a student and the student coming back for a new letter of recommendation like every week or two for a new job or whatever and every letter of recommendation got shorter and shorter and shorter.
I call bullshit on this, its easier to give the same on over and over rather than take the effort to mess with it.
posted by biffa at 1:53 AM on February 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I call bullshit on this, its easier to give the same on over and over rather than take the effort to mess with it.
posted by biffa at 1:53 AM on February 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you for all your responses! I appreciate the different perspectives, anecdotes and advice. I feel like I have a better sense of the ethics and social expectations of the issue.
I've decided to give him a sealed & signed envelope with the letter inside. I also plan, as several people have suggested, to make sure he understands that the issue of confidentiality of recommendation letters exists (although obviously attitudes towards it vary), so he is sensitive to it in the future.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 4:51 AM on February 11, 2016
I've decided to give him a sealed & signed envelope with the letter inside. I also plan, as several people have suggested, to make sure he understands that the issue of confidentiality of recommendation letters exists (although obviously attitudes towards it vary), so he is sensitive to it in the future.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 4:51 AM on February 11, 2016
the professor talked about writing a glowing letter of recommendation for a student and the student coming back for a new letter of recommendation like every week or two for a new job or whatever and every letter of recommendation got shorter and shorter and shorter. He advised that if someone gives you a long, lovingly written letter of recommendation, you should photocopy it en masse to include with resumes and never bother the author again.
This is ridiculous, if you're someone who writes a lot of LOR, you just keep a folder on your computer called "Letters of Recommendation" and reprint the same damn letter every time, tweaking as needed. This is especially stupid if the original letter was tailored to a specific position or application, as it should be if it's going to be useful to anyone.
Salvor Hardin, I think your plan is fine. Going forward, since there are so many different approaches, and since your high schoolers are likely to be at the very beginning of the many LORs they will ask for in the coming years, it might be nice to develop a spiel to give when one is requested from you: Something like "I'll be happy to write you a strong letter. I know many people give copies of the LOR to the student, but I prefer not to do that as a policy, but I'll...[whatever you're comfortable with]."
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 9:15 AM on February 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is ridiculous, if you're someone who writes a lot of LOR, you just keep a folder on your computer called "Letters of Recommendation" and reprint the same damn letter every time, tweaking as needed. This is especially stupid if the original letter was tailored to a specific position or application, as it should be if it's going to be useful to anyone.
Salvor Hardin, I think your plan is fine. Going forward, since there are so many different approaches, and since your high schoolers are likely to be at the very beginning of the many LORs they will ask for in the coming years, it might be nice to develop a spiel to give when one is requested from you: Something like "I'll be happy to write you a strong letter. I know many people give copies of the LOR to the student, but I prefer not to do that as a policy, but I'll...[whatever you're comfortable with]."
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 9:15 AM on February 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I call bullshit on this, its easier to give the same on over and over rather than take the effort to mess with it.
posted by biffa at 1:53 AM on February 11
[1 favorite +] [!]
Sure, in the age of computers where you automatically save it to hard drive. Not in the age of type writers, which is when I was told the above story by a college professor.
Though my main point is really that not everyone has heard the same expectations. That strongly worded lecture was the biggest impression I had of how you are "supposed to" do this. I have not had reason to ask for too many letters of recommendation, but I can totally imagine me doing it all wrong because one professor made a strongly worded speech about the "correct" way to do this and no one else ever told me otherwise. It wouldn't be me being intentionally rude.
Anyone who comes from a blue collar background and is the first in their family to attend college, etc, will be prone to faux pas that may horrify folks more in the know. My father was a high school drop out. That was not some source of shame in his day and age, but he was incredibly proud that all three of his children completed high school and my sister and I both have attended college, completing various credentials.
Tldr: some people honest to god just have no idea or were given very much the wrong idea by one memorable incident. This can apply to any social expectation, no matter how obvious you think it is.
posted by Michele in California at 11:29 AM on February 11, 2016
posted by biffa at 1:53 AM on February 11
[1 favorite +] [!]
Sure, in the age of computers where you automatically save it to hard drive. Not in the age of type writers, which is when I was told the above story by a college professor.
Though my main point is really that not everyone has heard the same expectations. That strongly worded lecture was the biggest impression I had of how you are "supposed to" do this. I have not had reason to ask for too many letters of recommendation, but I can totally imagine me doing it all wrong because one professor made a strongly worded speech about the "correct" way to do this and no one else ever told me otherwise. It wouldn't be me being intentionally rude.
Anyone who comes from a blue collar background and is the first in their family to attend college, etc, will be prone to faux pas that may horrify folks more in the know. My father was a high school drop out. That was not some source of shame in his day and age, but he was incredibly proud that all three of his children completed high school and my sister and I both have attended college, completing various credentials.
Tldr: some people honest to god just have no idea or were given very much the wrong idea by one memorable incident. This can apply to any social expectation, no matter how obvious you think it is.
posted by Michele in California at 11:29 AM on February 11, 2016
I have written hundreds of letters of recommendation as a high school teacher. I've been teaching for well over a decade. In only one case did I keep it confidential due to the terms of the letter requested; all others I provided to the student openly and transparently.
I have never had a student question or argue with me about it.
I would want to know what someone was saying about me, especially since they have the potential to determine which doors would be open to me in the future.
I very rarely write something negative about a student. Instead, I do the Marilyn Hagerty thing and let the reader make inferences about what I'm NOT saying.
It's your call, but it's their future. I'd err on the side of open source and transparency.
posted by guster4lovers at 6:03 PM on February 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have never had a student question or argue with me about it.
I would want to know what someone was saying about me, especially since they have the potential to determine which doors would be open to me in the future.
I very rarely write something negative about a student. Instead, I do the Marilyn Hagerty thing and let the reader make inferences about what I'm NOT saying.
It's your call, but it's their future. I'd err on the side of open source and transparency.
posted by guster4lovers at 6:03 PM on February 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
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posted by Salvor Hardin at 2:34 PM on February 10, 2016