Wait, you like me? Why?

January 9, 2016 3:29 PM

I have developed a sort of uncertain romantic situation with a girl at my college. It's really the first time that I've been close to anyone in this way, or at all, and I am afraid that my self-hatred and self-absorption is getting in the way of a proper human relationship, as friends or otherwise.

We have confirmed that there are mutual feelings of affection, though with neither of us having experienced this before, we don’t know their extent nor how to label them. So for now it’s just a “thing”, and we’re just going to see where it leads.

But I have this burning sick feeling in my stomach thinking about whether my motivations here are genuine. My deepest fear is that as I pull away all of my neuroses and emotional needs I will come to find that there is no genuine basis for liking her or wanting any kind of relationship with her. Like what Lacan said, “There is no sexual relationship”, because all I’m doing is projecting my own needs.

Basically, I hate myself for being self-absorbed, right now to such an extent that I’m not sure of any of my other feelings.

Because of my lack of self-esteem, I quickly came to fix all of my hopes for self-worth and validation to her. Every interaction became terrifying because every slightest thing she said meant she liked me or hated me. So I started to crave a very serious relationship where she could express her affection for me more strongly, and finally declared this to her. It did not take long for me to realize that to demand something like that only a few weeks after we had shared how we felt about each other was absurd and delusional. I quickly apologized for putting her in that position and disavowed my previous position, and thankfully she was able to understand.

But I can’t stop feeling like I’ve committed an unforgivable sin. In my desperation for human understanding, I opened myself completely to her, and now I fear that she will feel a responsibility to provide for all of my needs. I also feel like in my haste to dump everything I was feeling on her, I failed to consider her needs… I still don’t know what I could possibly have to offer her… My worry over all of this overwhelms my actual romantic feelings for her; I feel guilty for thinking about myself and my feelings so much and not thinking enough about her. (On top of this, I still feel hurt that she does not share my inclination for deep emotional closeness as friends, even though I know this is something that is built mutually and not to be rushed.)

I don’t really know where to go from here. I feel like the best course of action is to force myself to trust that I do like her and that she does like me and to just see where it all leads. But then how do I act with her? All I can think about is how I’m probably not a very good conversationalist, and I’m probably annoying and not particularly likeable, and I talk about my own problems too much, and that the fact that this is all I can think about means I don’t really like her and I’m just being a terrible, delusional person for pursuing this. I have just enough insight here to feel that all of these thoughts are maybe misguided, while understandable given my history and situation, and that I just need to relax and let things unfold… but I don’t know…

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help.

posted by myitkyina to Human Relations (13 answers total)

This is a thing that talk therapy is for. Assuming you have a college counseling service, this situation and academic performance anxiety are the things they are most likely to be competent to handle. (They might not be very good, honestly, but you should try them.) If your college counseling service does not have a therapist that you feel will be helpful to you after a couple of sessions, or no such service exist, look off campus --- there's very frequently a cluster of behavioral health professionals with offices immediately off campus around universities in the US.

I would not recommend pursuing a romantic relationship with this person or anyone else until you have at least started tackling the self described self worth issues and intense focus on a single person to meet your emotional needs.
posted by PMdixon at 3:37 PM on January 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

People are generally terrible, in a lot of ways. You are no worse. It sounds like you genuinely care about her, as a person -- whether or not you care about her more than, or in a different way than, other people -- and that caring recommends you as a human. Forgive yourself your eagerness; it's good that you want closeness. It means you're human. Forgive yourself your lack of experience; it's not your fault. Consider how to go forward. Anything will be an improvement. Time is your friend; it will make things better if you just let it.
posted by amtho at 4:01 PM on January 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Your story rang deeply with me in some ways because 30+ years ago I similarly would feel deeply and reach for connection intensely when I was trying to fill in my own missing self-love. And I had no training or social skills to understand what was going on, so I got hurt a lot and lost friends. If it helps at all, what you are going through is normal for certain types of intelligent, heartful, wounded people. And it is with all compassion that I tell you that therapy is the best starting point to begin to gain some grasp on the threads that will help you unravel this sort of feeling and learn to stand on your own two feet.
posted by matildaben at 4:10 PM on January 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Because of my lack of self-esteem, I quickly came to fix all of my hopes for self-worth and validation to her. Every interaction became terrifying because every slightest thing she said meant she liked me or hated me. So I started to crave a very serious relationship where she could express her affection for me more strongly, and finally declared this to her. It did not take long for me to realize that to demand something like that only a few weeks after we had shared how we felt about each other was absurd and delusional.

I'm quoting this entire thing because it makes it really clear that there is a path A > B > C > D, but that you see the problem as being D and not A. To be precise, the problem isn't wanting to deepen the relationship; the problem is wanting to deepen the relationship in order to use someone else to band-aide your self-esteem.

ANY relationship where you "fix all of my hopes for self-worth and validation" on someone other than yourself is deeply unhealthy. If you can't figure out why someone would like you, that's the problem you need to address.

Hint: People like perfectly ordinary people every single day, all day, all over the world. You needn't be extraordinary in any way at all to have value, be worthy of love, and be compelling to another human.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:53 PM on January 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oh please do go to therapy. The burning sick feeling and inability to trust, severely punishing yourself for a mistake... it doesn't have to be this way at all. Therapy will take that internal pressure off you so that you can deal with the present as it is, instead of using the present as a canvas to project your past on to. You sound logical and self aware so a good therapist could really help you! I wish you good luck!
posted by St. Peepsburg at 5:13 PM on January 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

You're fine; you don't need to feel guilty or bad in any way; you're young and still figuring this all out and that's just anxiety. But considering some of the language here ("burning sick feeling," "force myself"), I have to ask: are you actually attracted to this girl? Like, physically? Because I'm kind of getting the vibe here that dating her is something you don't actually want to do but you're not admitting that to yourself. Now, I could be wrong about that and you've just overthought yourself into a worry spiral, but be sure you're giving yourself permission to listen to your body as well as your mind. (And, yes, therapy!)
posted by thetortoise at 5:16 PM on January 9, 2016

Response by poster: I have to ask: are you actually attracted to this girl? Like, physically? Because I'm kind of getting the vibe here that dating her is something you don't actually want to do but you're not admitting that to yourself.

I'm definitely very attracted to her. And my feelings for her have been rather strong and without reservations. I just doubt in my own ability to genuinely feel that way about anyone, that all of that feeling is only based on my own need for validation; I don't know how to pull apart the genuine feelings from the emotional needs.
posted by myitkyina at 5:20 PM on January 9, 2016

That's a very clear answer. I say go for it! (Casual dating, that is; big relationship stuff is off the table for now.) As my therapist would say, you can't get through everything in life by thinking; some things you have to do. But please do listen to all the good advice here about taking care of your mental health. These are all totally normal experiences for people to have when they start getting interested in romance and you don't deserve to be feeling so bad about it.
posted by thetortoise at 5:32 PM on January 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's like this gremlin in your head, taking everything you do and trying to convince that you are the most horrible, self-centered person ever imaginable.
I have just enough insight here to feel that all of these thoughts are maybe misguided, while understandable given my history and situation, and that I just need to relax and let things unfold
Yes. Of course, then the gremlin will start yelling you about how you aren't relaxed enough and you are doing it all wrong and how could anyone possibly like you (despite the fact she obviously does like you enough to want to see you but the gremlin will ignore that and focus not the worse possible interpretation of the truth)

The good news is that almost everyone has their own gremlin (although yours is particularly loud) and a wonderful, supportive book was written on Taming Your Gremlin by Rick Carson.

It is not a substitute for seeing a therapist but it is cheap, you can get in a few days (sooner if there is a copy at your library) Just learning to notice your gremlin when it is action and name it. (Not make it shut up, that's hard, but realize "there it goes again"), will make it a little easier to trustt your own insight instead of the gremlin talk.
posted by metahawk at 6:45 PM on January 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

You wrote a wall of text about your feelings. You'd do well, now and forever, to try really really really hard to learn and remember that a woman is a human being with her own thoughts, feelings, wants, fears, pains, and inner life. Your focus ought to be on how you can leave her better off than when you found her, how you can genuinely negotiate with her (rather than staring at her as if she's an object that you do, or don't, want to be in the presence of, and that does, or does not, have interesting sexual features), how you can cooperate with her, and how you can act in accordance with your values. What kind of conduct is appropriate in a human relationship, not just a romantic one? What kind of man do you want to be and how does your conduct reflect that? What are your overarching values around relationships, not just this one, and not just with women?

There's a part of the brain that processes objects and a part that processes humans and living creatures. Would you flip out like this if you were deciding who to enter a mountain climbing expedition with? Or starting a business with? No, you'd not focus so much and only on what you "like" versus what you "emotionally need", you'd also be considering your responsibilities to another human, person, and friend, and what it says about you socially and in terms of your resources, and what it means for both of your futures in the near term, and whether you could afford to do a good job. Importantly, you'd try to understand what the other person needs and wants also, through conversation and negotiation. Importantly: telling the truth. Not withholding information that she might need to make well reasoned decisions about her life -- just like with any friend or person. Being the kind of person who is a good communicator, whatever that means to you. (An effective, clear, comfortable communicator -- this doesn't mean spewing verbal diarrhea on a woman differently from you would on any dude. That's your litmus test.)

If this is the first girl you've liked who has liked you, and there's no time like the present to do whatever you can to interact with her like a person and friend, even and especially when emotions run high, and even (especially) in the future when she makes you angry/sad/etc., and when she wants something that you don't. Remembering she is a person throughout the entirety of the interaction, start to end, not just when courting her, not just when you're getting along. Don't worry (just) about whether you want to be validated. Worry about being the kind of person who does a good job, and treats others the way he thinks he ought to, whether he's being validated or not. Then your validation can come from the inside.
posted by omg_parrots at 5:37 AM on January 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think many people's early relationships have this confusion at the heart of them: do I really like this person or do I just want them to like me? I think it is ok to *casually* date while figuring this out. And I really like what omg_parrots said: refocus your wondering about her from "what is she thinking about me?!" to getting to know her as a person. And yes, therapy helps with (1) self hatred and (2) getting caught in ruminating loops.
posted by CMcG at 6:03 AM on January 10, 2016

Everyone who has suggested therapy is right – those voices that tell you you're not worthy of love, that you're this, that and the other? You need to find ways to fight against them. It's hard work but you are worthy of love and you can survive this – and learn from it. Also, though I'm wary of saying 'you need, you need' etc, I urge you to find ways to be kind to yourself.

It's so hard when your internal narrative is set to self-criticism and self-flagellation; as those things seem real. But they're not. Do whatever you can to find a glimmer of self-love. Don't even worry about the girl. It's about you being kind to yourself (and then, by extension, her). When that glimmer goes, find it again. Work really hard at this .

I've looked briefly at your previous questions and I just think - you are beating yourself up WAY TOO MUCH. I don't know you, but you don't deserve this. You have to be a warrior against those 'beating myself up' voices, and bring some kind voices to bear on yourself, again and again and again.

So, just to reiterate - there's a lot of work to do on yourself; all you need to be is kind to yourself, as best you can, and kind to this girl, even though you're scared of the outcomes. This is really hard. And read through the answers everyone's given you before about the 'limerance' question (it's a crush. Crushes surge dopamine and make you anxious and crazy. It's OKAY). You want certainty, you want to prevent getting hurt, and these things aren't possible – no-one on metafilter can tell you otherwise. You can just witness and be conscious of all your emotions, feelings, and anxiety; and learn how to soothe yourself as best you can.

You will be alright, whatever happens. Not everything rests on this. I know right now that sounds impossible – but it's true.
posted by considerthelilies at 5:59 AM on January 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

ps. also, I hope this comes across more like the high-five it's meant to be than condescending; but you are relatively young and yet you are doing brilliantly in terms of self-awareness and self-knowledge. You should really, truly find ways to give yourself a break as much as you can. These issues don't go instantly – they take years – and the fact you're so aware of yourself already, and are already seeking advice is a really good thing. Keep on finding ways to be kind to yourself.
posted by considerthelilies at 6:22 AM on January 11, 2016 [1 favorite]