What rights do I have in this situation?
January 7, 2016 12:39 AM Subscribe
I have signed a 6 months lease to share an apartment with another person that I found through an ad. He has now had a third person move in "temprorarily". It's been 2 weeks and the third person has no clear plans to leave.
I am now mid way into the lease. My flatmate is currently away in his home town and while away he has let his friend move into his room for free. I was originally (hesitantly) OK with the situation since the plan was for her to leave before he comes back. I have recently found out that she has no job and no place to stay. While she has been looking for places to rent, it seems that one after the other fall through and she is no closer to finding anything. I can't tell if she is being too picky or it's just bad luck (probably a bit of both).
My flatmate is coming back in couple of days and I can't see him kicking her out. He has already mentioned that she can stay on the couch "for a bit". I can see a potential for this to go on indefinetely. While she seems nice enough, there are already few problems. She is home all day and has the air con on ALL the time. I am away for around 12 hours per day (on average) and if the flatmate was here, he would be away roughly the same amount of time. I am currently paying half of the electricity bill. Air con charges are pretty horrible - at this rate, I am looking into paying an extra $100-$200 a month. I have already mentioned something about the air con - but she still has it on constantly (I actually asked her how much she uses it and she admitted it). Mainly I don't want to live with 2 people while I pay half the rent (we currently split everything 50/50 and have equal rights to the apartement). If this was part of the deal, I would have never moved in. I am growing increasingly frustrated that there is no end in sight.
When the flatmate and I moved in, we signed a formal agreement on not having a third person sleep over for more than 2 consecutive nights. I wonder if I can use that clause to get out of my 6 months contract and find another place without having to pay double the rent. Alternatively I could stick it out but pay less rent if there is now going to be a third person.
I am not sure how to approach it dimplomatically. Should I wait for him to come back and talk to him then if I see that she is staying for more than a few days? Or should I tell him now that I am not happy at all with her staying for longer than what we originally agreed (untill he gets back)?
In general I have trouble asserting my boundaries and just tolerate things until the point of which I let it all out, in an over-reaction. I also have trouble trusting my own gut instict over the situations that make me uncomfortable - I am aware that I can be too sensitive so I try to factor that in too. That's why objective opinions help.
I am now mid way into the lease. My flatmate is currently away in his home town and while away he has let his friend move into his room for free. I was originally (hesitantly) OK with the situation since the plan was for her to leave before he comes back. I have recently found out that she has no job and no place to stay. While she has been looking for places to rent, it seems that one after the other fall through and she is no closer to finding anything. I can't tell if she is being too picky or it's just bad luck (probably a bit of both).
My flatmate is coming back in couple of days and I can't see him kicking her out. He has already mentioned that she can stay on the couch "for a bit". I can see a potential for this to go on indefinetely. While she seems nice enough, there are already few problems. She is home all day and has the air con on ALL the time. I am away for around 12 hours per day (on average) and if the flatmate was here, he would be away roughly the same amount of time. I am currently paying half of the electricity bill. Air con charges are pretty horrible - at this rate, I am looking into paying an extra $100-$200 a month. I have already mentioned something about the air con - but she still has it on constantly (I actually asked her how much she uses it and she admitted it). Mainly I don't want to live with 2 people while I pay half the rent (we currently split everything 50/50 and have equal rights to the apartement). If this was part of the deal, I would have never moved in. I am growing increasingly frustrated that there is no end in sight.
When the flatmate and I moved in, we signed a formal agreement on not having a third person sleep over for more than 2 consecutive nights. I wonder if I can use that clause to get out of my 6 months contract and find another place without having to pay double the rent. Alternatively I could stick it out but pay less rent if there is now going to be a third person.
I am not sure how to approach it dimplomatically. Should I wait for him to come back and talk to him then if I see that she is staying for more than a few days? Or should I tell him now that I am not happy at all with her staying for longer than what we originally agreed (untill he gets back)?
In general I have trouble asserting my boundaries and just tolerate things until the point of which I let it all out, in an over-reaction. I also have trouble trusting my own gut instict over the situations that make me uncomfortable - I am aware that I can be too sensitive so I try to factor that in too. That's why objective opinions help.
You should definitely start looking for a new place after your 6 month lease ends. You don't want to live with someone who thinks it's fine to do this... Who knows what else they are capable of!?
posted by flink at 1:13 AM on January 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by flink at 1:13 AM on January 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
So far, nothing too egregious has happened, but you're right to be looking for where to draw lines. I'd keep the tone light while letting people know what the limits are.
You could let her know that if she persists in keeping the AC on constantly, you'd like her to contribute to the electric bill. ("Hey, just as a reminder of what I said yesterday, Bill and I don't have the AC on during the day. If you want to do that, that's fine, as long as you're willing to pitch in the $150 I think it'll add to our electric bill.")
And you could let him know that after he returns, you want to hold to the original agreement. ("Hi, I just wanted to check in with you. After you return, are you planning to ask Sue to move out after two days, or were you planning to have her stay longer? If she'll be staying, I think we need to check with the landlord, and I'd like to talk about how that will change the way we divvy up the rent.")
posted by salvia at 1:30 AM on January 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
You could let her know that if she persists in keeping the AC on constantly, you'd like her to contribute to the electric bill. ("Hey, just as a reminder of what I said yesterday, Bill and I don't have the AC on during the day. If you want to do that, that's fine, as long as you're willing to pitch in the $150 I think it'll add to our electric bill.")
And you could let him know that after he returns, you want to hold to the original agreement. ("Hi, I just wanted to check in with you. After you return, are you planning to ask Sue to move out after two days, or were you planning to have her stay longer? If she'll be staying, I think we need to check with the landlord, and I'd like to talk about how that will change the way we divvy up the rent.")
posted by salvia at 1:30 AM on January 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
Kick her out. You weren't consulted and you have a complete stranger in your home while you're at work using your utilities and running up your bills. Hopefully they're not going through your things, but who knows? I would tell your flat mate you want them out by the time he gets back. Sleeping on the couch is not an option as you never agreed to it and don't want another flatmate. If he made promises, tough luck, not your problem. He needs to unpromise. He is also responsible for the bill she ran up in his name. Inform him you won't be paying more than the standard bill you always pay.
And start looking for somewhere else to live at the end of the month. Be prepared for a fight, this is clearly a person who takes advantage and expects to get their own way, so stand firm otherwise you will just get steamrolled. He clearly has you pegged as a pushover - prove him wrong early on or you will be in a world of pain.
posted by Jubey at 1:58 AM on January 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
And start looking for somewhere else to live at the end of the month. Be prepared for a fight, this is clearly a person who takes advantage and expects to get their own way, so stand firm otherwise you will just get steamrolled. He clearly has you pegged as a pushover - prove him wrong early on or you will be in a world of pain.
posted by Jubey at 1:58 AM on January 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Are you in Australia? Some of the answers here will be influenced by US laws, which may or may not be similar to what governs your contact.
From a non-legal standpoint, yes, you absolutely have rights here and are letting yourself be steamrolled. Beyond the increased utilities cost, having an extra person in the apartment makes it feel smaller and ties up shared areas like the bathroom and kitchen, especially if she sets up camp in the living room and you no longer have access to it when you want it. You need to put your foot down. Is this the same guy as the previous two ask questions? If so, you're just not a good match for living together.
posted by Candleman at 5:36 AM on January 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
From a non-legal standpoint, yes, you absolutely have rights here and are letting yourself be steamrolled. Beyond the increased utilities cost, having an extra person in the apartment makes it feel smaller and ties up shared areas like the bathroom and kitchen, especially if she sets up camp in the living room and you no longer have access to it when you want it. You need to put your foot down. Is this the same guy as the previous two ask questions? If so, you're just not a good match for living together.
posted by Candleman at 5:36 AM on January 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Based on what you've described, he's breeching the terms of the lease that you signed. You might want to double-check with a tenants association, but on the face of it, you're within your rights to bail on this situation.
If you want to stay, and it's mostly the added expenses that are bugging you, since he's altered the terms of the agreement, I would make him feel the consequences of his decision:
1. I would insist on a rent rebate for having a third person in the apartment. Somewhere between a third and a half.
2. I would insist on paying only 1/3 of the utility charges.
3. I would sit down with both parties and discuss who does what around the house.
This is what would happen until I found myself a fantastic studio, where I didn't have to deal with roommates.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:41 AM on January 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you want to stay, and it's mostly the added expenses that are bugging you, since he's altered the terms of the agreement, I would make him feel the consequences of his decision:
1. I would insist on a rent rebate for having a third person in the apartment. Somewhere between a third and a half.
2. I would insist on paying only 1/3 of the utility charges.
3. I would sit down with both parties and discuss who does what around the house.
This is what would happen until I found myself a fantastic studio, where I didn't have to deal with roommates.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:41 AM on January 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think you can be friendly but firm, not mad or combative, and point out that this is impacting you. I think you should decide whether you want to split utilities three ways, or if you just want her to leave.
If it's the latter, mention the clause about no guests for more than two nights and say having two roommates isn't what you signed up for, so when he gets back, she can't stay beyond the two nights. If you're open to her staying longer with split utilities, tell him you can't pay for someone else running the A/C all day and the utilities need to be split three ways. But I would just tell him now before he assumes you're cool with her staying or so you don't have to be put on the spot by him when she is there.
posted by AppleTurnover at 6:49 AM on January 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
If it's the latter, mention the clause about no guests for more than two nights and say having two roommates isn't what you signed up for, so when he gets back, she can't stay beyond the two nights. If you're open to her staying longer with split utilities, tell him you can't pay for someone else running the A/C all day and the utilities need to be split three ways. But I would just tell him now before he assumes you're cool with her staying or so you don't have to be put on the spot by him when she is there.
posted by AppleTurnover at 6:49 AM on January 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'd kick her out asap based on the no-more-than-two-nights clause. Ignore the AC issue for now. Splitting it three ways with another person isn't a win for you, if that person is also driving the entire total way up. Let them both know that when he gets back she needs to be out, because the apartment isn't for occupancy of more than two people, per the lease and per your agreement to have one flatmate.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:55 AM on January 7, 2016
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:55 AM on January 7, 2016
I think all good advice so far, but one thing to add - this is really their problem, not yours. They have to pay for the additional cost of the AC, they have to figure out how to make nice with you after violating the lease etc. Their problem, which you will bring to them and then move out.
posted by Toddles at 8:33 AM on January 7, 2016
posted by Toddles at 8:33 AM on January 7, 2016
I would email him, to put everything in writing so he can't say "well you said [something other than what you said]" later on. In that email, I'd outline the fact that you both agreed to two consecutive nights maximum, no more. She can't stay on the couch "for a bit" (what a wonderfully elastic phrase!) because that's not what you agreed to. He can't unilaterally decide that she can stay, but you can unilaterally decide that she can't, because you signed an agreement with him. This situation is exactly what agreements like that are for. Also, don't let it get to the point where she stays Monday and Tuesday nights, clears off Wednesday evening then returns on Thursday morning and stays until Saturday evening. That's kind of an extreme situation, but it sounds like it might be within the scope of your agreement.
Also make it clear that you're not paying for her to run the air conditioning all day. She's not just an identical replacement for your flatmate, she's a whole different person who is behaving in ways that are detrimental to your bank account. If she wants the air conditioning on for twelve hours a day, she pays to have the air conditioning on for twelve hours a day. That's not like making an extra cup of tea or something, it's a large sum of money.
Don't give an inch. Your flatmate, and by extension his friend, will take a mile. Ideally, the camel's nose wouldn't be in the tent right now, but she's already moved in. Make sure she moves out again, permanently. I would open with "she's moving out", not "it's OK if she stays for a day or two", because it seems like you'll be making a rod for your own back if you do. It sounds like you want what you originally signed up for, which is completely OK. Get your jab in first.
Alternatively, look for another place to live, then just leave when you find one. There's no need to look for a replacement renter because your flatmate already has one - his friend. Use the security deposit as your last month's rent, or whatever is legal and works for you, then move into your new place, where you have complete control over the temperature and how long the house guests stay for.
posted by Solomon at 8:59 AM on January 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also make it clear that you're not paying for her to run the air conditioning all day. She's not just an identical replacement for your flatmate, she's a whole different person who is behaving in ways that are detrimental to your bank account. If she wants the air conditioning on for twelve hours a day, she pays to have the air conditioning on for twelve hours a day. That's not like making an extra cup of tea or something, it's a large sum of money.
Don't give an inch. Your flatmate, and by extension his friend, will take a mile. Ideally, the camel's nose wouldn't be in the tent right now, but she's already moved in. Make sure she moves out again, permanently. I would open with "she's moving out", not "it's OK if she stays for a day or two", because it seems like you'll be making a rod for your own back if you do. It sounds like you want what you originally signed up for, which is completely OK. Get your jab in first.
Alternatively, look for another place to live, then just leave when you find one. There's no need to look for a replacement renter because your flatmate already has one - his friend. Use the security deposit as your last month's rent, or whatever is legal and works for you, then move into your new place, where you have complete control over the temperature and how long the house guests stay for.
posted by Solomon at 8:59 AM on January 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
or were you planning to have her stay longer? If she'll be staying, I think we need to check with the landlord, and I'd like to talk about how that will change the way we divvy up the rent.")
Just wanted to chime in to say don't use this language unless you want to sound like you are fine with her staying. If you are not fine with her staying, email/call/text him now and say you want to abide by the original plan to have her out when he comes back. Also I think it's fine to tell him and her you expect she will pay the excess energy costs for the AC. Others have given good advice on the other aspects of the question.
posted by JenMarie at 10:03 AM on January 7, 2016
Just wanted to chime in to say don't use this language unless you want to sound like you are fine with her staying. If you are not fine with her staying, email/call/text him now and say you want to abide by the original plan to have her out when he comes back. Also I think it's fine to tell him and her you expect she will pay the excess energy costs for the AC. Others have given good advice on the other aspects of the question.
posted by JenMarie at 10:03 AM on January 7, 2016
Nth to go hard line on what the original agreement was. That is the default and the starting point for negotiation, not a compromise "somewhere in the middle."
I wouldn't make them an offer like splitting 3 ways. That's their job. Your lease agreement is your rights and he freely agreed to them, and you don't need to feel a bit bad about it. If they want to deviate from that, they need to make that proposal to you. It needs to be a complete proposal that you can say yes or no to; it's not your job to "work with them" to devise a solution. They need to offer you something in return that makes you happily agree. Don't feel a bit obligated to accept just because they make an offer even if it's a big concession - if it doesn't make you happy, it's not good enough.
posted by ctmf at 6:25 PM on January 7, 2016
I wouldn't make them an offer like splitting 3 ways. That's their job. Your lease agreement is your rights and he freely agreed to them, and you don't need to feel a bit bad about it. If they want to deviate from that, they need to make that proposal to you. It needs to be a complete proposal that you can say yes or no to; it's not your job to "work with them" to devise a solution. They need to offer you something in return that makes you happily agree. Don't feel a bit obligated to accept just because they make an offer even if it's a big concession - if it doesn't make you happy, it's not good enough.
posted by ctmf at 6:25 PM on January 7, 2016
Response by poster: I e-mailed him and said that on reflection, we have agreed that she will leave by the time he gets back. I would like him to tell her that she has to leave by x date (a day before he is back).
He responded, was apologetic and has informed her of this. She is not happy and I have my doubts that she will actually leave.
I think I am much more suited to live on my own. This has been a very draining and stressful experience.
posted by sabina_r at 5:24 AM on January 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
He responded, was apologetic and has informed her of this. She is not happy and I have my doubts that she will actually leave.
I think I am much more suited to live on my own. This has been a very draining and stressful experience.
posted by sabina_r at 5:24 AM on January 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
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