How to get through a toxic work relationship/environment?
December 10, 2015 3:21 PM Subscribe
I'm having a hard time aligning with my co-worker. I think we're incompatible. There's also been the feel of a toxic work environment. More under the fold.
My apologies for the somewhat vague topic/question. I've been employed at a Public Relations office as a writer since May. I've gone through some bumps, some learning experiences, but overall, it's been a good experience so far, strictly work-related.
However, I've been having a hard time aligning with my co-worker/possible supervisor. The roles weren't clarified, but my co-worker; let's call him Tim, is a senior editor/writer, so his role is above mine. He began about two months after me. He's much older than me, in his late 50's/early 60's. (For reference, I am 29.) Initially, our boss (the department's exec. director) approved my leave, but she soon delegated the approval of my leave to Tim. It seemed like Tim was my supervisor, but I'm still not entirely clear on that. When Tim began, I sent him a detailed email explaining how everything worked (the website, helpful links, office information, and other relevant details any new employee would want to know). He did not respond to this email (not even a 'thank you'), which was a bit off-putting. He also seemed a bit hard to approach, even gruff. I brushed it off as a "first day" kind of thing. He seemed to quickly pick things up and took over some job duties I previously had (as his position was empty previously).
Over the past months, I've been having a hard time aligning with him, because at times, his approach can be blunt. Sometimes I felt underestimated by him, like my work wasn't good enough. On the other hand, he explained things well and taught me some new tips/tricks, and generally was friendly.
A few examples of how hard it felt aligning with him:
a) Despite me being asked to do a certain task, he would become upset knowing I was doing those tasks and say it was his job, not mine, to do those tasks. Sometimes, when giving a suggestion for an edit or addition, he would brush that off, therefore underestimating me.
b) Recently, I had to re-write a submission for our email system (submitted by an outside party) because it was written unclearly. He came up to me the next morning and said that the email was awfully written and unclear, and that he had to rewrite it. To be fair, he probably didn't know I had re-written it at the time, as he was sick the day before, but it still stung, as he should've known I at least edited it (which I always do with our emails). I felt it was well written and clear, but I guess different perspectives come in play here.
c) He often complains about co-workers and/or people needing him to do things for him, but puts on an about-face for them and acts nice towards them. I realize this is the professional thing to do, but it still comes across as off-putting and wishy-washy.
d) He's awful with responding to emails and often does not CC me when he should, leaving me out of the loop. I'm often a bit 'lost' by him, and he comes across as easily distracted. He's human, sure, but I feel like he can do better, especially as a senior writer/editor. I've noticed some mistakes he made on emails, etc., despite him saying he's a perfectionist. Obviously, we all make them, but I hold him by a higher standard as senior writer, and those mistakes are something that shouldn't be easily overlooked. Maybe that's a bit on me, but still.
e) This is still bothering me, but about a month ago, he was complaining about a female co-worker who was being rigid with scheduling of a published newsletter. Valid, but he actively said that she was a bitch. He said this to me and another (female) co-worker. This female co-worker, who is very nice and someone I normally trust, laughed it off, but I wasn't sure if she just felt awkward. Complaining about that co-worker may be valid, but I felt him calling her a bitch, even if not directly to her face, went a bit too far. The female co-worker is on the same level (?) as Tim, and has worked for about five years, one of the longest-standing employees in the department.
Completely personal and maybe biased, so probably ignore those complaints from me, but he smells, has bad breath, and while talking to me one time, accidentally spat. I don't like being in the same room as him, because of those reasons, but I realize I have no control over those things as a germ-phobe and try to ignore it and not let it affect my opinion of him.
Adding to that, I've heard and saw some toxicity in the work environment, and it's making me a bit uncomfortable. "Quit" isn't really a suggestion at this point, because of several factors I can expand upon if asked, but for the time being, it's not the most comfortable feeling. Some say it's because of the director, and things she've done/pulled in the past; personally, so far, I've not experienced anything negative from her, but based on what people say, I keep a fine line with her and keep my head down. People have told me they were unhappy, and a few had quit, but it didn't seem as bad as it used to be, all based on hearsay, so far.
I guess what I'm asking at this juncture is any advice what I should do about Tim and my frustrations. I just feel like no matter how hard I try, I can't connect with him completely, and it's very off-putting. His approach is up and down at times, and sometimes I feel like he views himself better than me and/or that he's always right. It also bothers me how blurred the roles seem - is he my direct supervisor, or just someone who can approve of time off? I plan to try and clarify this with the director, but it's bothersome regardless.
Thanks, and I'll be happy to answer any follow up questions that I feel comfortable answering.
My apologies for the somewhat vague topic/question. I've been employed at a Public Relations office as a writer since May. I've gone through some bumps, some learning experiences, but overall, it's been a good experience so far, strictly work-related.
However, I've been having a hard time aligning with my co-worker/possible supervisor. The roles weren't clarified, but my co-worker; let's call him Tim, is a senior editor/writer, so his role is above mine. He began about two months after me. He's much older than me, in his late 50's/early 60's. (For reference, I am 29.) Initially, our boss (the department's exec. director) approved my leave, but she soon delegated the approval of my leave to Tim. It seemed like Tim was my supervisor, but I'm still not entirely clear on that. When Tim began, I sent him a detailed email explaining how everything worked (the website, helpful links, office information, and other relevant details any new employee would want to know). He did not respond to this email (not even a 'thank you'), which was a bit off-putting. He also seemed a bit hard to approach, even gruff. I brushed it off as a "first day" kind of thing. He seemed to quickly pick things up and took over some job duties I previously had (as his position was empty previously).
Over the past months, I've been having a hard time aligning with him, because at times, his approach can be blunt. Sometimes I felt underestimated by him, like my work wasn't good enough. On the other hand, he explained things well and taught me some new tips/tricks, and generally was friendly.
A few examples of how hard it felt aligning with him:
a) Despite me being asked to do a certain task, he would become upset knowing I was doing those tasks and say it was his job, not mine, to do those tasks. Sometimes, when giving a suggestion for an edit or addition, he would brush that off, therefore underestimating me.
b) Recently, I had to re-write a submission for our email system (submitted by an outside party) because it was written unclearly. He came up to me the next morning and said that the email was awfully written and unclear, and that he had to rewrite it. To be fair, he probably didn't know I had re-written it at the time, as he was sick the day before, but it still stung, as he should've known I at least edited it (which I always do with our emails). I felt it was well written and clear, but I guess different perspectives come in play here.
c) He often complains about co-workers and/or people needing him to do things for him, but puts on an about-face for them and acts nice towards them. I realize this is the professional thing to do, but it still comes across as off-putting and wishy-washy.
d) He's awful with responding to emails and often does not CC me when he should, leaving me out of the loop. I'm often a bit 'lost' by him, and he comes across as easily distracted. He's human, sure, but I feel like he can do better, especially as a senior writer/editor. I've noticed some mistakes he made on emails, etc., despite him saying he's a perfectionist. Obviously, we all make them, but I hold him by a higher standard as senior writer, and those mistakes are something that shouldn't be easily overlooked. Maybe that's a bit on me, but still.
e) This is still bothering me, but about a month ago, he was complaining about a female co-worker who was being rigid with scheduling of a published newsletter. Valid, but he actively said that she was a bitch. He said this to me and another (female) co-worker. This female co-worker, who is very nice and someone I normally trust, laughed it off, but I wasn't sure if she just felt awkward. Complaining about that co-worker may be valid, but I felt him calling her a bitch, even if not directly to her face, went a bit too far. The female co-worker is on the same level (?) as Tim, and has worked for about five years, one of the longest-standing employees in the department.
Completely personal and maybe biased, so probably ignore those complaints from me, but he smells, has bad breath, and while talking to me one time, accidentally spat. I don't like being in the same room as him, because of those reasons, but I realize I have no control over those things as a germ-phobe and try to ignore it and not let it affect my opinion of him.
Adding to that, I've heard and saw some toxicity in the work environment, and it's making me a bit uncomfortable. "Quit" isn't really a suggestion at this point, because of several factors I can expand upon if asked, but for the time being, it's not the most comfortable feeling. Some say it's because of the director, and things she've done/pulled in the past; personally, so far, I've not experienced anything negative from her, but based on what people say, I keep a fine line with her and keep my head down. People have told me they were unhappy, and a few had quit, but it didn't seem as bad as it used to be, all based on hearsay, so far.
I guess what I'm asking at this juncture is any advice what I should do about Tim and my frustrations. I just feel like no matter how hard I try, I can't connect with him completely, and it's very off-putting. His approach is up and down at times, and sometimes I feel like he views himself better than me and/or that he's always right. It also bothers me how blurred the roles seem - is he my direct supervisor, or just someone who can approve of time off? I plan to try and clarify this with the director, but it's bothersome regardless.
Thanks, and I'll be happy to answer any follow up questions that I feel comfortable answering.
Really, the only issue that stands out to me is that you don't really know who your direct supervisor is. Is it the Department Director or is it the Senior Writer? The first order of business is to find out who you directly report to and that should make your concerns regarding item a) from your list more clear.
The rest of your list can be solved by getting a thicker skin. While it's absolutely lovely to work in a team of people who are nice, competent, and a pleasure to work with, the reality is that the people we have to work with are often unpleasant and difficult. Don't take it personally and make sure you're doing your job and communicating clearly with your direct supervisor about expectations, responsibilities, and performance.
posted by quince at 3:52 PM on December 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
The rest of your list can be solved by getting a thicker skin. While it's absolutely lovely to work in a team of people who are nice, competent, and a pleasure to work with, the reality is that the people we have to work with are often unpleasant and difficult. Don't take it personally and make sure you're doing your job and communicating clearly with your direct supervisor about expectations, responsibilities, and performance.
posted by quince at 3:52 PM on December 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
+1 to talk to your boss
You've listed a lot of areas where you aren't aligned. Have you spoken to him directly about these and how you guys can improve on aligning here?
There are always going to be toxic coworkers (it's just part and parcel of being in a working environment), but I would get clarification ASAP on if he's your boss, because a toxic boss is a reason to leave a job.
posted by raw sugar at 4:00 PM on December 10, 2015
You've listed a lot of areas where you aren't aligned. Have you spoken to him directly about these and how you guys can improve on aligning here?
There are always going to be toxic coworkers (it's just part and parcel of being in a working environment), but I would get clarification ASAP on if he's your boss, because a toxic boss is a reason to leave a job.
posted by raw sugar at 4:00 PM on December 10, 2015
They brought a guy in over a family member, who was in that age range. He was clueless and demanded everything go through him as if he were learning how to function in the situation and, learning the situation. I suggested document everything. Keep working well. Document. I checked back on how things were three months later. Oh, he's long gone came the reply. The trouble with resums is they are often overly embellished.
posted by Oyéah at 4:12 PM on December 10, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 4:12 PM on December 10, 2015
The roles weren't clarified.
Here's your problem right there. Get it clarified with your manager.
If you do talk about it with your manager, be very careful what examples you give. The fact that Tim once accidentally spat when he spoke is relevant to nothing, and only makes you look petty and mean.
Also, I would suggest spending some time thinking about what you mean by alignment. What do you expect from a coworker? Do you need to work well with him, or do you need to like him or do you need to want to have a coffee with him? The answer to that will help you decide what kind of workplace you want.
posted by frumiousb at 4:15 PM on December 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Here's your problem right there. Get it clarified with your manager.
If you do talk about it with your manager, be very careful what examples you give. The fact that Tim once accidentally spat when he spoke is relevant to nothing, and only makes you look petty and mean.
Also, I would suggest spending some time thinking about what you mean by alignment. What do you expect from a coworker? Do you need to work well with him, or do you need to like him or do you need to want to have a coffee with him? The answer to that will help you decide what kind of workplace you want.
posted by frumiousb at 4:15 PM on December 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's not what I would call a toxic relationship. You don't like the guy all that much and it sounds like he probably doesn't have a lot of respect for you. Big deal. It's normal to have that kind of relationship with some of the people you work with. You don't have to try to "connect with him completely." You shouldn't expect you're going to connect completely with all your coworkers. It's too bad he underestimates you, but if he's 30 years older than you it's pretty much inevitable that he's going to assume he knows more than you. It's probably safe to assume he does know more than you. Clarify who your supervisor is, do your job as well as you can, and stop stressing about the rest of it.
posted by Redstart at 4:41 PM on December 10, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by Redstart at 4:41 PM on December 10, 2015 [17 favorites]
Oh, this isn't toxic, the guy is just odious. That's the way the cookie crumbles.
For SURE sit down with Dude and the manager and hash out who does what. I think you'll be a lot happier when roles are delineated.
Then, do your job, and let him hang himself. He sounds like a real ass, and sooner or later, he'll either show YOU why he's the senior writer, or everyone will start wondering what the heck he does around there.
Her's a thing I say about work. If you're happy, wait, something will fuck it up. If you're unhappy, wait, something great will happen.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:47 PM on December 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
For SURE sit down with Dude and the manager and hash out who does what. I think you'll be a lot happier when roles are delineated.
Then, do your job, and let him hang himself. He sounds like a real ass, and sooner or later, he'll either show YOU why he's the senior writer, or everyone will start wondering what the heck he does around there.
Her's a thing I say about work. If you're happy, wait, something will fuck it up. If you're unhappy, wait, something great will happen.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:47 PM on December 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
When I read this it sounded to me as if he is your boss (he was given the task of approving your leave and he's more senior than you= your boss) and that you have tried to undermine that reasonably consistently. E.g sending him an unsolicited list of 'advice' on his first day could seem intrusive and condescending if coming from a subordinate to their boss; nit-picking about his spelling in emails; getting annoyed about him giving you feedback on a task when the feedback was, as far as I can tell from your description, accurate but just a bit late because he was sick. It sounds as though you are coming up with passive-aggressive ways to undermine his authority.
Maybe that's not the case; I don't have all the facts of course but it does make sense to me as a way of seeing all this so you might like to consider that he might see it that way too.
Fwiw bad breath and spitting are gross but in the context of your attempts to establish a 'case' against him it makes you sound VERY petty and ungenerous.
The bitch thing is the only one I think sounds bad Prima facie but it doesn't sound like a pattern of toxic behaviour to me, but rather an incident that well might be worth following up separately.
posted by jojobobo at 5:26 PM on December 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
Maybe that's not the case; I don't have all the facts of course but it does make sense to me as a way of seeing all this so you might like to consider that he might see it that way too.
Fwiw bad breath and spitting are gross but in the context of your attempts to establish a 'case' against him it makes you sound VERY petty and ungenerous.
The bitch thing is the only one I think sounds bad Prima facie but it doesn't sound like a pattern of toxic behaviour to me, but rather an incident that well might be worth following up separately.
posted by jojobobo at 5:26 PM on December 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
Is this your first PR job?
posted by warriorqueen at 5:40 PM on December 10, 2015
posted by warriorqueen at 5:40 PM on December 10, 2015
That isn't snarky, it will help me figure out if it's an industry expectation thing...maybe I will just say the concerns about who owns which task, and gruff feedback and stress-laden behind-the-back chatter and that kind of thing are pretty common in PR in my admittedly limited experience.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:52 PM on December 10, 2015
posted by warriorqueen at 5:52 PM on December 10, 2015
Response by poster: To answer some questions and to clear several things up:
a) Yes, this is my first PR job.
b) I did talk to Tim about how I was trying to help re: my edits/suggestions. He got a bit flustered and said he was just overwhelmed.
c) I didn't knowingly show any upset/frustration with his behavior, unlike what jojobobo suggested, nor was I trying to underestimate him. I have remained game to his feedback/suggestions/whatnot, just felt annoyed/frustrated internally. I didn't know or expect he would be my boss the day he moved in; I thought that all our roles were equal, under the director. It is not my intention to passively-aggressively undermine his leadership.
d) Of course I know not to bring up the breath/spitting thing if I talk to the director. Like I mentioned in my original question: I realize I have no control over those things as a germ-phobe and try to ignore it and not let it affect my opinion of him. I am not including this as "building a case against him", but rather, to give the situation context and explain why I am frustrated in general.
I welcome all perspectives and am not being defensive; just clarifying.
Frankly, I was a bit surprised that not many people seemed up in arms about the 'bitch' part. I would've thought that people would see that as going too far, especially from a man who is in his late 50s/early 60s, and especially given all the frustrations on male-dominated workplaces. After all, assertive or rigid men aren't called bitches, they're called strict and firm, but with a hint of respect. I found that demeaning from him (even though it wasn't directed at me or the other female co-worker). This is coming from a gay male, if that matters.
posted by dubious_dude at 6:54 PM on December 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
a) Yes, this is my first PR job.
b) I did talk to Tim about how I was trying to help re: my edits/suggestions. He got a bit flustered and said he was just overwhelmed.
c) I didn't knowingly show any upset/frustration with his behavior, unlike what jojobobo suggested, nor was I trying to underestimate him. I have remained game to his feedback/suggestions/whatnot, just felt annoyed/frustrated internally. I didn't know or expect he would be my boss the day he moved in; I thought that all our roles were equal, under the director. It is not my intention to passively-aggressively undermine his leadership.
d) Of course I know not to bring up the breath/spitting thing if I talk to the director. Like I mentioned in my original question: I realize I have no control over those things as a germ-phobe and try to ignore it and not let it affect my opinion of him. I am not including this as "building a case against him", but rather, to give the situation context and explain why I am frustrated in general.
I welcome all perspectives and am not being defensive; just clarifying.
Frankly, I was a bit surprised that not many people seemed up in arms about the 'bitch' part. I would've thought that people would see that as going too far, especially from a man who is in his late 50s/early 60s, and especially given all the frustrations on male-dominated workplaces. After all, assertive or rigid men aren't called bitches, they're called strict and firm, but with a hint of respect. I found that demeaning from him (even though it wasn't directed at me or the other female co-worker). This is coming from a gay male, if that matters.
posted by dubious_dude at 6:54 PM on December 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
People aren't focusing on the use of the word bitch because it came up after a litany of complaints about him that had nothing to do with it, and it sounded like just an additional way you are aggravated by someone you already hate instead of a primary problem. Your question wasn't "how can I ensure my workplace is friendly to women/minorities", it was how to deal with a co-worker you don't like.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 7:58 PM on December 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 7:58 PM on December 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: In that case I do pretty much suggest a thicker skin, which I recognize is hard. Direct, blunt, sometimes brutal feedback on copy and ignoring input from more junior staff can be par for the course.
In the editorial workplaces I've worked in, calling someone a bitch behind her back wouldn't be someone's finest moment, but it wouldn't be that unusual either. High-adrenaline environments can wear on a person, especially after a few years.
If you think it's sexism on his part, I believe you. PR can be a really sexist industry. But given that you've only been there since May and he's even newer, I think I would wait to see what his long-term relationship to women in the workplace is before making a determination. Sometimes it's the people who seem nicest who are doing the most undermining.
As a total sidebar...I find your phrasing that he underestimates you a bit weird, because either your edits and suggestions are solid or they're not -- he doesn't have to estimate your ability, you're talking about work on the page. Beware falling into stereotypes about young people who aren't able to separate the quality of their work -- and in PR, it seems like there are /always/ edits, and the editing/approval pathway is very hierarchical -- with their own personal worth.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:06 PM on December 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
In the editorial workplaces I've worked in, calling someone a bitch behind her back wouldn't be someone's finest moment, but it wouldn't be that unusual either. High-adrenaline environments can wear on a person, especially after a few years.
If you think it's sexism on his part, I believe you. PR can be a really sexist industry. But given that you've only been there since May and he's even newer, I think I would wait to see what his long-term relationship to women in the workplace is before making a determination. Sometimes it's the people who seem nicest who are doing the most undermining.
As a total sidebar...I find your phrasing that he underestimates you a bit weird, because either your edits and suggestions are solid or they're not -- he doesn't have to estimate your ability, you're talking about work on the page. Beware falling into stereotypes about young people who aren't able to separate the quality of their work -- and in PR, it seems like there are /always/ edits, and the editing/approval pathway is very hierarchical -- with their own personal worth.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:06 PM on December 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am not including this as "building a case against him", but rather, to give the situation context and explain why I am frustrated in general.
I think part of the problem is that you started this off by talking about a toxic work environment, but your post ends up reading more like "how to deal with someone I don't really like" and it really does read (although you may not mean it this way) as though a big part of why you don't like him is that he's been flown in as your manager without discussion. I would not like that either, but that's why I recommend a direct discussions about roles and responsibilities so you can decide how you feel about them once they are explicit.
As a woman in business, I'm not delighted to hear about women being called a "bitch". But-- honestly-- if that constituted a toxic work environment then every single workplace I have been in would be toxic (it's a societal thing unfortunately). People move quickly and get frustrated and gendered insults are part of it. I always call people on it (now that I'm an old and senior battle axe) but one incident wouldn't make me react so strongly as an isolated incident. If it was a consistent behaviour on somebody's part or was part of a broader pattern of discrimination in the workplace, then that would be different. But as a one-off, no. And tbh the way you tossed it off sounded more like "one more reason not to like the guy" than anything else.
The thing is, you're not going to like everyone you work with but only you can value how important it is that you like someone with whom you work closely.
posted by frumiousb at 8:24 PM on December 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think part of the problem is that you started this off by talking about a toxic work environment, but your post ends up reading more like "how to deal with someone I don't really like" and it really does read (although you may not mean it this way) as though a big part of why you don't like him is that he's been flown in as your manager without discussion. I would not like that either, but that's why I recommend a direct discussions about roles and responsibilities so you can decide how you feel about them once they are explicit.
As a woman in business, I'm not delighted to hear about women being called a "bitch". But-- honestly-- if that constituted a toxic work environment then every single workplace I have been in would be toxic (it's a societal thing unfortunately). People move quickly and get frustrated and gendered insults are part of it. I always call people on it (now that I'm an old and senior battle axe) but one incident wouldn't make me react so strongly as an isolated incident. If it was a consistent behaviour on somebody's part or was part of a broader pattern of discrimination in the workplace, then that would be different. But as a one-off, no. And tbh the way you tossed it off sounded more like "one more reason not to like the guy" than anything else.
The thing is, you're not going to like everyone you work with but only you can value how important it is that you like someone with whom you work closely.
posted by frumiousb at 8:24 PM on December 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
In your original list, (b) and (d) seem to be mirror images of each other.
posted by rhizome at 9:20 PM on December 10, 2015
posted by rhizome at 9:20 PM on December 10, 2015
You called out previous posters for not reacting to Tim's "bitch" comment. I agree with you and other posters - this is obviously offensive, but sadly it's not uncommon. You told us of the reaction of the other co-worker present, but you didn't tell us what you said. What was your reaction? If you thought it was wrong (and your post suggests that you did), did you call him on it? Report it to senior management? Or did you stay silent?
Am I being provocative? Maybe. But the OP specifically called us out on not responding to that part of his post. So I'm just trying to remedy that.
posted by finding.perdita at 4:25 AM on December 11, 2015
Am I being provocative? Maybe. But the OP specifically called us out on not responding to that part of his post. So I'm just trying to remedy that.
posted by finding.perdita at 4:25 AM on December 11, 2015
Response by poster: I wasn't intentionally calling anyone out on the bitch part. I was just wondering out aloud and was a bit surprised, is all.
As for my reaction, sorry I didn't expand upon that. I acted the same as the female co-worker. I felt awkward, but didn't want to cause any waves. I didn't talk to senior management because I thought it may have been an one-off, but it still bothered me. That's all.
posted by dubious_dude at 5:15 AM on December 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
As for my reaction, sorry I didn't expand upon that. I acted the same as the female co-worker. I felt awkward, but didn't want to cause any waves. I didn't talk to senior management because I thought it may have been an one-off, but it still bothered me. That's all.
posted by dubious_dude at 5:15 AM on December 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
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