I think I want to learn German and want to pick a method
December 9, 2015 6:01 PM Subscribe
I am thinking that I might want to learn German as a language of beer and cheese for career advancement. Good choice? Should I take a class or set out on my own?
I have gone back to school full-time to get a degree in food science with an emphasis in fermentation. Eventually, I want to work in either dairy processing(cheese) or in brewery quality control. I have some time to learn another language and I thought German might be a good choice. Here are some questions:
1. If a fermentation food scientist were to speak a second language, is German the best choice?
2. I'm taking organic chem and physics this semester. Is learning German going to be crazy-taxing?
3. I can take it as an official college class. Is learning from something like Rosetta Stone just as effective? I've never heard of anybody becoming a speaker of another language by learning that way.
I have gone back to school full-time to get a degree in food science with an emphasis in fermentation. Eventually, I want to work in either dairy processing(cheese) or in brewery quality control. I have some time to learn another language and I thought German might be a good choice. Here are some questions:
1. If a fermentation food scientist were to speak a second language, is German the best choice?
2. I'm taking organic chem and physics this semester. Is learning German going to be crazy-taxing?
3. I can take it as an official college class. Is learning from something like Rosetta Stone just as effective? I've never heard of anybody becoming a speaker of another language by learning that way.
1. Sorry, don't know.
2. Assuming you're a native English speaker, German is for most people no more taxing than any other Western European language. But there are almost certainly less taxing courses on offer if you just want the credits.
3. Any self-directed study (including Rosetta Stone) takes independence and drive. For most people, getting to the "beginner/intermediate" level is easier in a structured class that meets physically, because you're held to account by other people, and you hear a fluent speaker speaking extemporaneously.
But that's getting to beginner/intermediate. You've never heard of anybody becoming a speaker of another language by doing Rosetta Stone. Me neither. But I've never heard of anybody becoming a speaker of another language by taking one college class either. Both are a first step. If your goal is to become a German speaker then the choice between a 101 college class and something like Rosetta Stone should be made solely on which option is more appealing to you.
If the self-directly study approach is appealing then, just as a data point, Rosetta Stone didn't click for me. I did Pimsleur instead, which is just audio tapes. I got up to "restaurant German" that way, and then moved to Germany (which is the actual trick to learning German). For more on self-directed language study, check out "How to learn a language".
posted by caek at 6:15 PM on December 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
2. Assuming you're a native English speaker, German is for most people no more taxing than any other Western European language. But there are almost certainly less taxing courses on offer if you just want the credits.
3. Any self-directed study (including Rosetta Stone) takes independence and drive. For most people, getting to the "beginner/intermediate" level is easier in a structured class that meets physically, because you're held to account by other people, and you hear a fluent speaker speaking extemporaneously.
But that's getting to beginner/intermediate. You've never heard of anybody becoming a speaker of another language by doing Rosetta Stone. Me neither. But I've never heard of anybody becoming a speaker of another language by taking one college class either. Both are a first step. If your goal is to become a German speaker then the choice between a 101 college class and something like Rosetta Stone should be made solely on which option is more appealing to you.
If the self-directly study approach is appealing then, just as a data point, Rosetta Stone didn't click for me. I did Pimsleur instead, which is just audio tapes. I got up to "restaurant German" that way, and then moved to Germany (which is the actual trick to learning German). For more on self-directed language study, check out "How to learn a language".
posted by caek at 6:15 PM on December 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
3. I can take it as an official college class. Is learning from something like Rosetta Stone just as effective?
It's going to depend a ton on what your learning style is and how much discipline and motivation you have. One huge advantage of a (good) class is that you immediately get to meet people who might want to get together and practice together, and drill each other in conjugations and vocabulary. Learning on your own might also involve unnecessarily reinventing wheels.
posted by rtha at 6:37 PM on December 9, 2015
It's going to depend a ton on what your learning style is and how much discipline and motivation you have. One huge advantage of a (good) class is that you immediately get to meet people who might want to get together and practice together, and drill each other in conjugations and vocabulary. Learning on your own might also involve unnecessarily reinventing wheels.
posted by rtha at 6:37 PM on December 9, 2015
Based on my own experience, German is tough at the beginning because of the grammar, and then evens out / becomes fun when you're mostly adding vocab. So a class might be better than Rosetta Stone for that.
posted by knuspermanatee at 6:46 PM on December 9, 2015
posted by knuspermanatee at 6:46 PM on December 9, 2015
I'm going to chime in here on the other courses you're taking: depending on your level in chemistry (and how recently you've taken the pre-reqs) you may find o-chem on its own to be taxing enough.
I agree with previous posters who say that a class to get up to the beginner/intermediate level is good, but YMMV. I'm learning Esperanto on my own, and it feels like a game because I don't really have a conversation buddy.
posted by invokeuse at 7:08 PM on December 9, 2015
I agree with previous posters who say that a class to get up to the beginner/intermediate level is good, but YMMV. I'm learning Esperanto on my own, and it feels like a game because I don't really have a conversation buddy.
posted by invokeuse at 7:08 PM on December 9, 2015
Ausgezeichnet! I am an American instructor of German with ten years of experience teaching it at various levels, from preschool to community college; I have a graduate degree in the subject as well as years of living abroad. Germany is my second home, and I'm a big proponent of learning German and visiting Germany for everyone who's interested.
Germany (and other German-speaking countries) have a great tradition of beer brewing and cheese-making so it will certainly be a useful language. My big question is what is your goal? If your goal is to become a trained Meister (a process that can take decades), I'd recommend moving to Germany, taking an intensive language class in Germany, then applying to start your Ausbildung as a Brauerin. It wouldn't be easy or likely wouldn't be cheap but it could be do-able if this is truly your major goal in life.
However, if your goal is to get your degree in the US and eventually work in the States (open your own craft brewery, etc.), then I'd focus on learning conversational German (GER 101-202) at college as well as the Fachwortschatz (here's a basic guide) and then spend a summer touring breweries, doing an internship, etc. Because so many Germans speak such good English, you could technically do the tour and internship without prior German knowledge, especially if you are paired with a younger team. If you work for a German or German-American company in the US after finishing your degree, they may pay for you to do advanced training in Germany.
If your goal is to learn German both for personal pleasure and professional work, I'd keep studying for your degree while taking German at university on the side. You can learn a lot from programs and apps like Rosetta Stone but you will not become fluent or really even a proficient speaker, as you correctly noted. However, fluency won't happen from classroom learning on its own either: the best way to become fluent is to immerse yourself in the language and culture by living in a German-speaking country for at least a year as a student or worker and committing to speaking German almost exclusively while you're there. It's a big commitment and a challenge but absolutely possible and very rewarding!
Starting a new language takes most learners hours of studying a week. I started formally learning Spanish last year and, despite already being bilingual in German and English and having some knowledge of Spanish, I still spent hours and hours studying. (It all paid off and I'm happy to have learned so much and am ready to keep learning more. I'm taking a break this year due to work demands but hope to take a language holiday this summer.) With your current challenging course load, I'd study German on your own using apps or maybe auditing the German 101 class at university. I'd join German Club and enjoy their cultural activities and see if they appeal to you. You could look into learning German in Germany in the summer, such as a Goethe Institut: their programs are not cheap but they are very effective and you could do a home-stay, too. There are also exchange programs and scholarships for university students should you get to that point. You could also just study some phrases and then spend a week traveling and see if you're still interested. Life in Germany is very similar to the US in many ways but then also completely different at the same time; those differences may or may not appeal to you.
Should you decide to start learning German at college, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the warm sense of community there. Being a less common language in the US, American (and international) students of German can really bond over this shared interest; I experienced a classroom dynamic, both as a student and as a teacher, unlike in any of my other subjects. German helped teach me about the world, and has made me into a more enlightened person; the kindness and generosity I experienced abroad has helped make me into a better person. (The current humanitarian situation in Germany is very complex but, frankly, I'd rather have Germany's humaneness und Hilfbereitschaft than the toxic political atmosphere in the US right now!)
Basically anything and everything you do to start exploring German will be positive. You may find it's a fun hobby and just being able to order a Hefeweizen in a Biergarten while relaxing with new friends is enough. You may find you want to make it a central theme of your life. You may also find it's not at all for you and that's fine, too! In any case, I wish you viel Glück and viel Erfolg! Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
posted by smorgasbord at 7:35 PM on December 9, 2015 [17 favorites]
Germany (and other German-speaking countries) have a great tradition of beer brewing and cheese-making so it will certainly be a useful language. My big question is what is your goal? If your goal is to become a trained Meister (a process that can take decades), I'd recommend moving to Germany, taking an intensive language class in Germany, then applying to start your Ausbildung as a Brauerin. It wouldn't be easy or likely wouldn't be cheap but it could be do-able if this is truly your major goal in life.
However, if your goal is to get your degree in the US and eventually work in the States (open your own craft brewery, etc.), then I'd focus on learning conversational German (GER 101-202) at college as well as the Fachwortschatz (here's a basic guide) and then spend a summer touring breweries, doing an internship, etc. Because so many Germans speak such good English, you could technically do the tour and internship without prior German knowledge, especially if you are paired with a younger team. If you work for a German or German-American company in the US after finishing your degree, they may pay for you to do advanced training in Germany.
If your goal is to learn German both for personal pleasure and professional work, I'd keep studying for your degree while taking German at university on the side. You can learn a lot from programs and apps like Rosetta Stone but you will not become fluent or really even a proficient speaker, as you correctly noted. However, fluency won't happen from classroom learning on its own either: the best way to become fluent is to immerse yourself in the language and culture by living in a German-speaking country for at least a year as a student or worker and committing to speaking German almost exclusively while you're there. It's a big commitment and a challenge but absolutely possible and very rewarding!
Starting a new language takes most learners hours of studying a week. I started formally learning Spanish last year and, despite already being bilingual in German and English and having some knowledge of Spanish, I still spent hours and hours studying. (It all paid off and I'm happy to have learned so much and am ready to keep learning more. I'm taking a break this year due to work demands but hope to take a language holiday this summer.) With your current challenging course load, I'd study German on your own using apps or maybe auditing the German 101 class at university. I'd join German Club and enjoy their cultural activities and see if they appeal to you. You could look into learning German in Germany in the summer, such as a Goethe Institut: their programs are not cheap but they are very effective and you could do a home-stay, too. There are also exchange programs and scholarships for university students should you get to that point. You could also just study some phrases and then spend a week traveling and see if you're still interested. Life in Germany is very similar to the US in many ways but then also completely different at the same time; those differences may or may not appeal to you.
Should you decide to start learning German at college, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the warm sense of community there. Being a less common language in the US, American (and international) students of German can really bond over this shared interest; I experienced a classroom dynamic, both as a student and as a teacher, unlike in any of my other subjects. German helped teach me about the world, and has made me into a more enlightened person; the kindness and generosity I experienced abroad has helped make me into a better person. (The current humanitarian situation in Germany is very complex but, frankly, I'd rather have Germany's humaneness und Hilfbereitschaft than the toxic political atmosphere in the US right now!)
Basically anything and everything you do to start exploring German will be positive. You may find it's a fun hobby and just being able to order a Hefeweizen in a Biergarten while relaxing with new friends is enough. You may find you want to make it a central theme of your life. You may also find it's not at all for you and that's fine, too! In any case, I wish you viel Glück and viel Erfolg! Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
posted by smorgasbord at 7:35 PM on December 9, 2015 [17 favorites]
I took one German class, and have taken a bunch of French classes. The German grammar is hard, the pronunciation part not. But, I found it screwed up my English because they are so similar, yet just a tad different. They're like half-siblings.
I would pick up a copy of Berlitz 'Teach Yourself German' and go through it to see if you like the language enough.
posted by kinoeye at 8:38 PM on December 9, 2015
I would pick up a copy of Berlitz 'Teach Yourself German' and go through it to see if you like the language enough.
posted by kinoeye at 8:38 PM on December 9, 2015
For me, Duolingo is amazing (somewhat less so Babbel) in my experience, because for practice you can endlessly run repeat things without having to feel any peer pressure from anyone else. It's just you and your phone, speaking a language, trying to get you to say things correctly and clearly and letting you type things in.
There's very very little to lose from just downloading the app now and seeing how you get on with it. If you click, then you have part of your solution. And it's not something that has to replace lessons. It's a great complement to them for revision and practice.
posted by ambrosen at 12:31 PM on December 10, 2015
There's very very little to lose from just downloading the app now and seeing how you get on with it. If you click, then you have part of your solution. And it's not something that has to replace lessons. It's a great complement to them for revision and practice.
posted by ambrosen at 12:31 PM on December 10, 2015
If you're interested in self-teaching (and free), see also if your public library subscribes to Mango Languages.
posted by bentley at 2:41 PM on December 10, 2015
posted by bentley at 2:41 PM on December 10, 2015
I took the entire series of undergraduate college classes in German, and spent years reading German books, without being able to speak very well. A few years ago I hired a private German tutor for conversation lessons and now can speak passably.
I learned Spanish by basically hiring a private tutor for conversation lessons, and my spoken Spanish is better than my spoken German.
Conventional classes may convey to you facts about the language and its grammatical structure, but they don't give you much total time speaking it. And speaking the language is, perhaps paradoxically, the only real way to learn how to speak a language. German grammar is elegant, strongly cognitive, and fascinatingly flexible. Time spent studying it as such will not be wasted. But learning grammar from an individual tutor who is focused on your evolving level of comprehension is much more time-efficient than in a class. And a good tutor will put grammar points in a secondary, supporting role to your practicing speaking.
Also: German is very well represented in online media. Many many German TV stations post their videos online, and there is a lot on youtube. This is a great tool for a language learner to hear and absorb the music and cadence of the language, as well as to build and reinforce vocabulary. If you start watching German TV online -- even before you understand much -- the audio you hear will synergize with your other forms of study and accelerate and intensify your comprehension and Sprachgefühl (feeling for the language.)
posted by bertran at 9:19 PM on December 10, 2015
I learned Spanish by basically hiring a private tutor for conversation lessons, and my spoken Spanish is better than my spoken German.
Conventional classes may convey to you facts about the language and its grammatical structure, but they don't give you much total time speaking it. And speaking the language is, perhaps paradoxically, the only real way to learn how to speak a language. German grammar is elegant, strongly cognitive, and fascinatingly flexible. Time spent studying it as such will not be wasted. But learning grammar from an individual tutor who is focused on your evolving level of comprehension is much more time-efficient than in a class. And a good tutor will put grammar points in a secondary, supporting role to your practicing speaking.
Also: German is very well represented in online media. Many many German TV stations post their videos online, and there is a lot on youtube. This is a great tool for a language learner to hear and absorb the music and cadence of the language, as well as to build and reinforce vocabulary. If you start watching German TV online -- even before you understand much -- the audio you hear will synergize with your other forms of study and accelerate and intensify your comprehension and Sprachgefühl (feeling for the language.)
posted by bertran at 9:19 PM on December 10, 2015
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The food scientists I've known have had plenty of time for leisure activities. No idea what classes they were taking at the time, but it was during their first and second years of a Masters program.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:13 PM on December 9, 2015