Zero-Tolerance Policy
December 8, 2015 2:42 PM Subscribe
An emotionally unstable & potentially dangerous acquaintance is renting out part of our living space for 4 days, starting this week and I am not okay with that. How do we rescind the offer in a safe way?
My boyfriend runs a music studio out of our living space. Last week, he made plans to rent it out to an acquaintance (James). When he told me, I let him know that I was uncomfortable with James. Recently, he's been making a lot of unhinged posts on facebook, attacking people (unprovoked), and sharing disgusting details about his personal life. A few women I know have mentioned that he has been sending them obscene messages via social media (again, also unprovoked).
I shared this info with my boyfriend and he seemed skeptical of hearsay on facebook, so I just made plans to be out of the house for the entire time James would be there.
This morning, a friend of mine posted a slew of texts messages that James had sent her after she filed a restraining order against him. It was filled with the worst racist and sexist slurs.
That was the final straw for me. I told my bf, "Read this. I do not want James anywhere near this house". Finally, he agrees with me, although he's still skeptical, he can see that I'm clearly not okay with this.
So, the question is: How do we proceed? How do we un-invite this person to our house? I'm very afraid of retaliation. He has access to guns (he posts them on fb from time to time) and he has made threatening remarks to other individuals, and now he knows where we live. Is it just as easy as saying "Hey, you can't use the studio anymore because you're a racist asshole?" Does that endanger my friend who posted the information? How do we do what is right and also protect ourselves and others?
My boyfriend runs a music studio out of our living space. Last week, he made plans to rent it out to an acquaintance (James). When he told me, I let him know that I was uncomfortable with James. Recently, he's been making a lot of unhinged posts on facebook, attacking people (unprovoked), and sharing disgusting details about his personal life. A few women I know have mentioned that he has been sending them obscene messages via social media (again, also unprovoked).
I shared this info with my boyfriend and he seemed skeptical of hearsay on facebook, so I just made plans to be out of the house for the entire time James would be there.
This morning, a friend of mine posted a slew of texts messages that James had sent her after she filed a restraining order against him. It was filled with the worst racist and sexist slurs.
That was the final straw for me. I told my bf, "Read this. I do not want James anywhere near this house". Finally, he agrees with me, although he's still skeptical, he can see that I'm clearly not okay with this.
So, the question is: How do we proceed? How do we un-invite this person to our house? I'm very afraid of retaliation. He has access to guns (he posts them on fb from time to time) and he has made threatening remarks to other individuals, and now he knows where we live. Is it just as easy as saying "Hey, you can't use the studio anymore because you're a racist asshole?" Does that endanger my friend who posted the information? How do we do what is right and also protect ourselves and others?
"Turns out the studio isn't available after all, James. We've got to get the exterminator in there to wipe out some bedbugs. Sorry for the inconvenience!"
posted by Rock Steady at 2:47 PM on December 8, 2015 [94 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 2:47 PM on December 8, 2015 [94 favorites]
Bedbugs or a family thing- "turns out it is not available".
And your BF needs to fully respect your right to feel safe- does he expect you never to judge until it is too late? What is the value of having a racist sexist rage-aholic in his life?
posted by TenaciousB at 2:52 PM on December 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
And your BF needs to fully respect your right to feel safe- does he expect you never to judge until it is too late? What is the value of having a racist sexist rage-aholic in his life?
posted by TenaciousB at 2:52 PM on December 8, 2015 [17 favorites]
Not everyone is scared of bedbugs (I would be, but this chump sounds like he's unhinged). I'd go for something like major electrical panel and rewiring work with landlord saying there will be no electrical for X days and some of the equipment may have been fried with the electrical malfunctions.
Also, your boyfriend needs to do a better job of not being skeptical of you and other women who are sharing that this guy is being threatening and wildly inappropriate. This sort of thing escalates into dangerous/violent territory quickly.
posted by quince at 3:08 PM on December 8, 2015 [81 favorites]
Also, your boyfriend needs to do a better job of not being skeptical of you and other women who are sharing that this guy is being threatening and wildly inappropriate. This sort of thing escalates into dangerous/violent territory quickly.
posted by quince at 3:08 PM on December 8, 2015 [81 favorites]
Okay, yeah, time for a reality check-in. You tagged this "danger" and your instincts are correct. James is not just "a racist asshole", he is a wildly unstable, dangerous person, and your boyfriend is in heavy denial about that. Your boyfriend is "still skeptical" about James being a problem after seeing him violate a restraining order another friend has against him? What exactly is there to be "skeptical" about in this situation? You definitely need to cite some kind of higher power making the studio unavailable (like the landlord cracking down on sublets, whatever), but I would honestly reevaluate your situation with your boyfriend as well.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 3:13 PM on December 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 3:13 PM on December 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
Definitely don't use an excuse that involves you guys being out of town, because he sounds like the type to just roll up and bang on the door/look in the windows/see you guys loading groceries in from the car and flip shit. I've been there before with people like this(ugh).
Come up with some kind of technical reason the space is unusable right now that you don't know when will be fixed(like an electrical problem the landlord has to deal with, or the bedbug thing, or water damage destroying stuff, or whatever)
Be prepared to have him flip shit when someone posts photos on instagram of them recording in the studio in 3 weeks. You'll kinda just have to deal with the fallout from that and your boyfriend will have to pull a "oh shit, sorry, i totally spaced after dealing with EXCUSE_PROBLEM i've just been super busy since it sucked up a lot of my time".
I would show your boyfriend this thread, also. I've had experiences with more than one person like this(doing the same kind of studio stuff!) who showed up and SMASHED A BUNCH OF MY GEAR. Some of which was boutique expensive as fuck stuff, vintage and really hard to find, sentimental, painstakingly hand rebuilt by me, etc. They also did like, so much damage to the space having a dumb tantrum that even after i did what i thought was a decent job repairing it my landlord charged me like $1300 to redo sheetrock and stuff.
I, unlike some others, sort of can at least vaguely see his side of this which is probably "Yea the guys an asshole but he's paying hundreds(or more) dollars and it's just a business thing. Why should i care if he's a dickhead?". I've been like that, in the past, and i regret it. And although i could write several paragraphs i don't have time to on how he should really be listening to you if you feel unsafe, there's also the very good point that unstable people who attack people and are generally violent destroy things.
Who wants some violent asshole in their studio who might flip out and break shit? The tiniest thing could be the trigger, like knowing he read that post by your friend. Or even something completely random.
(But seriously, you guys need to have a Come To Jesus about him about "i don't feel safe" being a valid reason to not do something rather than just like dumb ephermeral persnickety lady feelings. UGH. I wish i could get in a time machine and slap my past self)
posted by emptythought at 3:20 PM on December 8, 2015 [33 favorites]
Come up with some kind of technical reason the space is unusable right now that you don't know when will be fixed(like an electrical problem the landlord has to deal with, or the bedbug thing, or water damage destroying stuff, or whatever)
Be prepared to have him flip shit when someone posts photos on instagram of them recording in the studio in 3 weeks. You'll kinda just have to deal with the fallout from that and your boyfriend will have to pull a "oh shit, sorry, i totally spaced after dealing with EXCUSE_PROBLEM i've just been super busy since it sucked up a lot of my time".
I would show your boyfriend this thread, also. I've had experiences with more than one person like this(doing the same kind of studio stuff!) who showed up and SMASHED A BUNCH OF MY GEAR. Some of which was boutique expensive as fuck stuff, vintage and really hard to find, sentimental, painstakingly hand rebuilt by me, etc. They also did like, so much damage to the space having a dumb tantrum that even after i did what i thought was a decent job repairing it my landlord charged me like $1300 to redo sheetrock and stuff.
I, unlike some others, sort of can at least vaguely see his side of this which is probably "Yea the guys an asshole but he's paying hundreds(or more) dollars and it's just a business thing. Why should i care if he's a dickhead?". I've been like that, in the past, and i regret it. And although i could write several paragraphs i don't have time to on how he should really be listening to you if you feel unsafe, there's also the very good point that unstable people who attack people and are generally violent destroy things.
Who wants some violent asshole in their studio who might flip out and break shit? The tiniest thing could be the trigger, like knowing he read that post by your friend. Or even something completely random.
(But seriously, you guys need to have a Come To Jesus about him about "i don't feel safe" being a valid reason to not do something rather than just like dumb ephermeral persnickety lady feelings. UGH. I wish i could get in a time machine and slap my past self)
posted by emptythought at 3:20 PM on December 8, 2015 [33 favorites]
Nthing others.
Also, you need to be very sure that your boyfriend understands that the only thing James needs to know is that the studio is unavailable, for whatever impersonal reason you decide on. Wiring sounds good.
James MUST NOT under ANY circumstances have even the most remote breath of an idea that this came from you. Make it clear in no uncertain terms to your boyfriend that it is completely unnecessary to tell James that you are related to this decision.
I am worried for the bros being bros thing where one skeptical bro decides to clue in the other that it's "some chicks" complaining about him. I know this triangulation very well. I genuinely hope that your boyfriend's true colors are loyalty to the person he loves and not to some acquaintance.
If your boyfriend does drop your name to James, get out, do not look back, do not pass go. You will have been given a gift of knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt that your boyfriend was not worthy of you. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I have been in this situation.
posted by fraula at 3:22 PM on December 8, 2015 [60 favorites]
Also, you need to be very sure that your boyfriend understands that the only thing James needs to know is that the studio is unavailable, for whatever impersonal reason you decide on. Wiring sounds good.
James MUST NOT under ANY circumstances have even the most remote breath of an idea that this came from you. Make it clear in no uncertain terms to your boyfriend that it is completely unnecessary to tell James that you are related to this decision.
I am worried for the bros being bros thing where one skeptical bro decides to clue in the other that it's "some chicks" complaining about him. I know this triangulation very well. I genuinely hope that your boyfriend's true colors are loyalty to the person he loves and not to some acquaintance.
If your boyfriend does drop your name to James, get out, do not look back, do not pass go. You will have been given a gift of knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt that your boyfriend was not worthy of you. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I have been in this situation.
posted by fraula at 3:22 PM on December 8, 2015 [60 favorites]
If the situation were reversed and bf had come to you and said that he felt unsafe about some sort of arrangement, I would like to think you'd have had his back from the beginning. It is very disturbing that you initially saying you weren't comfortable with James being there (for whatever reason) wasn't enough for your bf. Ugh.
Also. He may "run the music studio" but since it is somehow attached to your shared living space or at least on your shared property, you should both be vetting/approving potential renters. And any veto for any reason should be enough for the other party.
I nth saying there are power problems with the space and it is undergoing reno. No one can argue with that.
posted by the webmistress at 3:33 PM on December 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also. He may "run the music studio" but since it is somehow attached to your shared living space or at least on your shared property, you should both be vetting/approving potential renters. And any veto for any reason should be enough for the other party.
I nth saying there are power problems with the space and it is undergoing reno. No one can argue with that.
posted by the webmistress at 3:33 PM on December 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
The way I see it, you have two issues. One is getting rid of James, and you've been offered some great suggestions there. The other is your boyfriend, who seems completely ok with having a strange man around who makes you uncomfortable.
It took three, seperate, escalating examples for him to finally agree that your safety and wellbeing around someone who threatened women and had guns was maybe, kind of, something to think about. And even now he doesn't sound convinced. Your word and your concerns aren't important enough for him to act, it took you really laying down the law for him to take you seriously.
If it were me, there would be two guys I would be removing from your shared living space - and I would argue that they're as dangerous as each other.
posted by Jubey at 3:37 PM on December 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
It took three, seperate, escalating examples for him to finally agree that your safety and wellbeing around someone who threatened women and had guns was maybe, kind of, something to think about. And even now he doesn't sound convinced. Your word and your concerns aren't important enough for him to act, it took you really laying down the law for him to take you seriously.
If it were me, there would be two guys I would be removing from your shared living space - and I would argue that they're as dangerous as each other.
posted by Jubey at 3:37 PM on December 8, 2015 [12 favorites]
In short, one is a man who doesn't respect women's opinions, threatens their safety and created a situation where you felt uncomfortable in your own home - and the other one is James.
posted by Jubey at 3:43 PM on December 8, 2015 [44 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 3:43 PM on December 8, 2015 [44 favorites]
James is sounding like he is having a mental health crisis. Your boyfriend does not sound like he is being very respectful of your feelings (or possibly he is just prioritizing his own feelings of rescinding this offer being awkward or possibly he just really has no awareness of what a threat this sort of thing is to women, whatever....). Your boyfriend needs to step up with his best unequivocal Miss Manners "I'm sorry that won't be possible" response and SOON. He leaves you 100% out of it. He handles it and deals with weird blowback from James if there is any. You two make an agreement to call the cops of James shows up or otherwise is inappropriate about this issue. I am sorry you are dealing with this. It might be helpful to call NAMI and get a reality check on how not-okay this is.
posted by jessamyn at 3:47 PM on December 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 3:47 PM on December 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
Finally, he agrees with me, although he's still skeptical
He doesn't really agree with you, if he's still skeptical. Skeptical of what, exactly?
Your bf needs to understand that his feelings of safety and yours are vastly different but equally important. A man may not feel uncomfortable or vaguely threatened by having a guy hanging around who does things like send women unwanted sexy times fb messages or who overshares disgusting personal details on social media, and may not really understand why it would bother anyone else or make them feel threatened. Thing is though, he doesn't really have to understand it. You saying it should be enough. And it is not. Why?
I don't think you intended for this to become about your boyfriend. But it is just as much about him as it is the other guy. You should not have to make plans to leave your own house for 4 days because your partner can't even with your feelings.
posted by the webmistress at 3:50 PM on December 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
He doesn't really agree with you, if he's still skeptical. Skeptical of what, exactly?
Your bf needs to understand that his feelings of safety and yours are vastly different but equally important. A man may not feel uncomfortable or vaguely threatened by having a guy hanging around who does things like send women unwanted sexy times fb messages or who overshares disgusting personal details on social media, and may not really understand why it would bother anyone else or make them feel threatened. Thing is though, he doesn't really have to understand it. You saying it should be enough. And it is not. Why?
I don't think you intended for this to become about your boyfriend. But it is just as much about him as it is the other guy. You should not have to make plans to leave your own house for 4 days because your partner can't even with your feelings.
posted by the webmistress at 3:50 PM on December 8, 2015 [18 favorites]
The boyfriend that I had who did not listen to me when I felt that he was putting me in danger was not a good partner, boyfriend, or even friend to me. Take from that what you will.
Best of luck.
posted by sockermom at 3:53 PM on December 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Best of luck.
posted by sockermom at 3:53 PM on December 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
This guy sounded dangerous even before you got to the restraining order part. It's really not good that your boyfriend is "skeptical." I feel like you kind of glossed over the fact that your original plan was to just leave the house for days and that your boyfriend would rather you do that than not allow his friend to use your space.
BF should definitely handle this on his own, with some version of "Can't be possible."
posted by sweetkid at 4:20 PM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
BF should definitely handle this on his own, with some version of "Can't be possible."
posted by sweetkid at 4:20 PM on December 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree James is likely having a mental health crisis. Think about moving out temporarily or permanently.
My first thought is there is zero chance James is leaving once he moves in, unless it's in handcuffs. Or worse. He's probably decompensating, and his final place to completely dissolve will be the studio. He's there until he gets committed or jailed, if I understand the situation correctly.
Make your plans. I might wait an extra week after he leaves to go back. Or just skip going back altogether. Life is already too short and fraught without being around unstable people with firearms. I think this is one crappy life experience you can skip by removing yourself from the situation entirely.
posted by jbenben at 4:26 PM on December 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
My first thought is there is zero chance James is leaving once he moves in, unless it's in handcuffs. Or worse. He's probably decompensating, and his final place to completely dissolve will be the studio. He's there until he gets committed or jailed, if I understand the situation correctly.
Make your plans. I might wait an extra week after he leaves to go back. Or just skip going back altogether. Life is already too short and fraught without being around unstable people with firearms. I think this is one crappy life experience you can skip by removing yourself from the situation entirely.
posted by jbenben at 4:26 PM on December 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
Nthing not letting James rent the space, and super-extra-emphatically nthing making sure that your boyfriend does not tell James that it's because you are uncomfortable. Also, you and your boyfriend need to have a long, serious talk about respecting your boundaries and taking you seriously when something concerns you.
posted by sarcasticah at 4:39 PM on December 8, 2015
posted by sarcasticah at 4:39 PM on December 8, 2015
Hm, I'm seeing a couple sides to this story. The one that I don't see spoken so far: do people going through crises not deserve assistance, no matter the repugnance of their personal views? I'm having a tough time with this because this is for a four day period, but I recognize that my personal experiences are informing that reaction.
Nevertheless, a couple experiences that may be relevant:
1. We had one couchsurfer turn out to be very simply a lazy person with the highest tolerance for uncomfortable situations imaginable. We could not get him out of our place, couldn't even get him to leave the house during the day or clean up after himself. The only thing that worked: spending a couple weeks looking for places for him to move into on craigslist, hand-holding him through email conversations with prospective roommates, then once we knew he had a place offered to him telling him that we would be changing the locks and he couldn't come back. It worked, have thankfully never seen this guy again in.
2. Different house-share situation, this time with a deadbeat housemate. Discussed deadbeat with other housemates. Faked a lease termination scenario with landlord upping the rent a bit and the housemates passing on the rent increase to deadbeat's share. He voluntarily moved out to avoid the faked rent increase.
3. I was my brother's sponsor when he got out of prison. It lasted several years. My brother and I don't get along. We survived.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 5:20 PM on December 8, 2015
Nevertheless, a couple experiences that may be relevant:
1. We had one couchsurfer turn out to be very simply a lazy person with the highest tolerance for uncomfortable situations imaginable. We could not get him out of our place, couldn't even get him to leave the house during the day or clean up after himself. The only thing that worked: spending a couple weeks looking for places for him to move into on craigslist, hand-holding him through email conversations with prospective roommates, then once we knew he had a place offered to him telling him that we would be changing the locks and he couldn't come back. It worked, have thankfully never seen this guy again in.
2. Different house-share situation, this time with a deadbeat housemate. Discussed deadbeat with other housemates. Faked a lease termination scenario with landlord upping the rent a bit and the housemates passing on the rent increase to deadbeat's share. He voluntarily moved out to avoid the faked rent increase.
3. I was my brother's sponsor when he got out of prison. It lasted several years. My brother and I don't get along. We survived.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 5:20 PM on December 8, 2015
Random friend of a friend type people don't deserve support at the cost of safety, sorry.
posted by winna at 5:27 PM on December 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by winna at 5:27 PM on December 8, 2015 [23 favorites]
There's a huge difference between deadbeat and demonstrably violent. The OP shouldn't put herself at risk because this dude needs help.
Stay safe, OP, and I hope this ultimately leads to a fruitful conversation with your BF about respecting you and your boundaries.
posted by Ruki at 5:33 PM on December 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
Stay safe, OP, and I hope this ultimately leads to a fruitful conversation with your BF about respecting you and your boundaries.
posted by Ruki at 5:33 PM on December 8, 2015 [11 favorites]
But actually, OP, I want to add a reminder that your safety is more important than being nice. I know these are words that sound obvious, but I'm concerned that your BF thinks otherwise.
posted by Ruki at 5:36 PM on December 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by Ruki at 5:36 PM on December 8, 2015 [16 favorites]
Apologies if I misinterpreted renting the studio space as "staying there for a few days." I assumed James might be crashing in the space while he's working. I don't really know this is the case and sorry if I mislead other commenters.
posted by jbenben at 5:52 PM on December 8, 2015
posted by jbenben at 5:52 PM on December 8, 2015
James MUST NOT under ANY circumstances have even the most remote breath of an idea that this came from you.
Hi, I'm the OP. I wish I hadn't posted this anonymously because it took longer than I expected to go through the queue and in the meantime, bf cancelled with James. When he pressed for a reason, bf texted him: "I couldn't get off work (true) and you apparently have some haters around and I don't want to bring that into my studio. If my studio was professional and not in my house, I'd probably still be down. Sorry dude."
I found this out after he sent it. About an hour later, James 'poked' me on Facebook.
I am upset but relatively calm. All I can do going forward is to avoid him and document anything that happens in the future. I had asked my bf to wait to contact him until I knew what to do, but James started texting and calling and he felt that it was best to just rip the bandaid off. Which I understand, but damn it sucks.
posted by chara at 9:38 PM on December 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Hi, I'm the OP. I wish I hadn't posted this anonymously because it took longer than I expected to go through the queue and in the meantime, bf cancelled with James. When he pressed for a reason, bf texted him: "I couldn't get off work (true) and you apparently have some haters around and I don't want to bring that into my studio. If my studio was professional and not in my house, I'd probably still be down. Sorry dude."
I found this out after he sent it. About an hour later, James 'poked' me on Facebook.
I am upset but relatively calm. All I can do going forward is to avoid him and document anything that happens in the future. I had asked my bf to wait to contact him until I knew what to do, but James started texting and calling and he felt that it was best to just rip the bandaid off. Which I understand, but damn it sucks.
posted by chara at 9:38 PM on December 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Hotel tonight is a good app for finding last minute rooms if shit hits the fan and you need to sleep somewhere safe and anonymous.
posted by oceanjesse at 9:38 PM on December 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 9:38 PM on December 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Why is he Poking you? I would be freaking the fuck out about that.
posted by oceanjesse at 9:44 PM on December 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 9:44 PM on December 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Your bf threw you under the bus and did not protect you. He put James' feelings ahead of yours with his dismissive, apologetic comments. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Please do whatever you have to to feel safe.
posted by the webmistress at 9:51 PM on December 8, 2015 [45 favorites]
posted by the webmistress at 9:51 PM on December 8, 2015 [45 favorites]
So after expressly telling your bf that he keeps your feelings about James to himself, he tells James that 'he has haters' and that basically the haters are in his house, ie you. You also asked your boyfriend to wait before contacting James, which he also didn't do. So, cat's out of the bag now, James is aware you don't like him. What a potential nightmare. Never mind James, your boyfriend is an absolute piece of work who has decided his annoyance over getting a few phone calls from James trumps your personal safety. Well, at least you know where you stand.
posted by Jubey at 10:04 PM on December 8, 2015 [41 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 10:04 PM on December 8, 2015 [41 favorites]
"He has haters" = the women are the problem, including you.
posted by sadmadglad at 4:59 AM on December 9, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by sadmadglad at 4:59 AM on December 9, 2015 [30 favorites]
So on top of being skeptical of your concerns about James, your boyfriend dismisses your feelings towards James as "being a hater" and divulges it to James --the very person you feel uncomfortable around...
Nope.
posted by Tsukushi at 5:36 AM on December 9, 2015 [11 favorites]
Nope.
posted by Tsukushi at 5:36 AM on December 9, 2015 [11 favorites]
Ignore him. Ban him from contacting you on Facebook or anywhere else. It'll either pass over or it will escalate. And when it does, cold war that shit. Memail me if you want to know what that means (I've dealt with this sort of psycho shit before and my strategies have always worked).
Then have a coming to Jesus meeting with your gem of a boyfriend for dismissing your feelings and requests.
posted by Young Kullervo at 6:27 AM on December 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Then have a coming to Jesus meeting with your gem of a boyfriend for dismissing your feelings and requests.
posted by Young Kullervo at 6:27 AM on December 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think your boyfriend meant to deflect the situation, but he fucked up by telling this unstable person his own reputation for instability is to blame. Now the person with the restraining order and every other female in between you and her are all targets because your BF described all of you as "haters."
First of all - get off of Facebook.
Stop checking, hide your profile from EVERYONE - whatever. Just stop. It's a point of contact between you and James' drama. Block it off by any means necessary. Go silent there. OK?
Afterwards... Your boyfriend *sighs*
How old are you guys? 20's? Your boyfriend is immature and he doesn't understand he's in danger, too. Crazy people with firearms are inherently dangerous. Your boyfriend is doing that weird equivocation thing some people do in these situations. Ya know, as long as the target of James' ire is not him - ha ha - it's all good! That's not someone you can trust.
I'm so sorry. Maybe someone can point to an essay, blog, movie, or real life scenario to help you help him see why he's putting you both, but especially you, at risk. I hope you guys have a breakthrough and can work this out. I especially hope James moves on and doesn't focus on you guys for long. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 6:50 AM on December 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
First of all - get off of Facebook.
Stop checking, hide your profile from EVERYONE - whatever. Just stop. It's a point of contact between you and James' drama. Block it off by any means necessary. Go silent there. OK?
Afterwards... Your boyfriend *sighs*
How old are you guys? 20's? Your boyfriend is immature and he doesn't understand he's in danger, too. Crazy people with firearms are inherently dangerous. Your boyfriend is doing that weird equivocation thing some people do in these situations. Ya know, as long as the target of James' ire is not him - ha ha - it's all good! That's not someone you can trust.
I'm so sorry. Maybe someone can point to an essay, blog, movie, or real life scenario to help you help him see why he's putting you both, but especially you, at risk. I hope you guys have a breakthrough and can work this out. I especially hope James moves on and doesn't focus on you guys for long. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 6:50 AM on December 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
I think what is happening is essentially the same thing that always happens when a group of women claim they've been hurt by an individual man's erratic and inexcusable behavior. They are dismissed as troublemakers, with the idea that they are all ganging up on this one misunderstood fellow because maybe he did something wrong, probably something "relatively harmless" like rejecting one of them, to one of them and they are trying to basically ostracize him as a group. If they aren't dismissed, they are blamed and the man's behavior is downplayed or excused as justifiable. Unfortunately it's a double-edged sword that is based in female social dynamics. Yeah, women will gang up on people, particularly other women, to try to destroy them for something that seems strangely overblown or unjustifiable. We know this. But when they utilize that group solidarity to protect each other and to oust a REAL threat, i.e. a man that has had LEGAL ACTION taken against him for his violent behavior, it can similarly be dismissed as women just being a bunch of bullies. Men are VERY good at destroying this protective group component, simply because it can also be used for some catty, cruel social drama, rather than supporting it by validating women's concerns when it is utilized in a legitimate manner to keep them safe.
I mean it's not like we've seen this in the news recently or anything.
Anyway, I am not at ALL justifying or condoning your boyfriend's behavior. I AM telling you that you need to protect yourself and your female cohort in this instance, because obviously he's taken to treat your concerns as drama rather than a legitimate cause for concern. That would concern me DEEPLY in this instance, particularly as a response from someone I trusted as a partner and all that entails.
posted by Young Kullervo at 7:11 AM on December 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
I mean it's not like we've seen this in the news recently or anything.
Anyway, I am not at ALL justifying or condoning your boyfriend's behavior. I AM telling you that you need to protect yourself and your female cohort in this instance, because obviously he's taken to treat your concerns as drama rather than a legitimate cause for concern. That would concern me DEEPLY in this instance, particularly as a response from someone I trusted as a partner and all that entails.
posted by Young Kullervo at 7:11 AM on December 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
You deserve someone better than your boyfriend. Being 'skeptical' and handling this in the worst way possible is unacceptable.
I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. Do whatever you need to do to feel safe.
posted by shesbenevolent at 7:26 AM on December 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. Do whatever you need to do to feel safe.
posted by shesbenevolent at 7:26 AM on December 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
Hey, chara's bf, you need to step it up here. Get back in touch with James and let him know that YOU disapprove of his actions. Right now you pointed a dangerous man anywhere but at you. I know it sucks, I know you don't want to do it, I even kind of get your skepticism. But the thing is, you don't have to believe he's racist and sexist and dangerous, you just have to believe your gf when she says that she does. Right now, this guy is busy stewing about all the haters who ruined a good thing for him, and he's going to take it out on everyone else until you tell him "actually, I think your behavior is unacceptable".
posted by disconnect at 7:41 AM on December 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by disconnect at 7:41 AM on December 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also don't let this asshole force you out of the public social sphere by hiding or going silent or leaving your own house, for fuck's sake. That's what he's trying to achieve! He can't stand that all these women are trying to oust him as a creep so he's trying to scare you into submitting. He hasn't done anything yet., but he sure loves to make you believe that he is capable and will unless you KNOW YOUR PLACE.
I get it. It sucks that this sort of thing happens, but it happens, and it's going to continue to happen if the current political and social climate is any indication. If he comes after you or your home, fucking defend it and yourself. Don't rely on your boyfriend or the police to take your side in this if it gets worse.
posted by Young Kullervo at 7:45 AM on December 9, 2015
I get it. It sucks that this sort of thing happens, but it happens, and it's going to continue to happen if the current political and social climate is any indication. If he comes after you or your home, fucking defend it and yourself. Don't rely on your boyfriend or the police to take your side in this if it gets worse.
posted by Young Kullervo at 7:45 AM on December 9, 2015
That BF has got to go. There are plenty of men in the world who don't do the whole Silly Lil Ladies song and dance. There are plenty of men who have principles and adhere to them by listening when women say another guy is dangerous.
This guy thinks he knows better than you, silly little girl. Fuck that noise, leave for good.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 10:04 AM on December 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
This guy thinks he knows better than you, silly little girl. Fuck that noise, leave for good.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 10:04 AM on December 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
I'd be giving the BF he sidestep, too, if he discounts other people's experiences. He should respect it if you simply told him you were uncomfortable. When presented with evidence of James' other activity, he was still skeptical did he rethink it after James barraged him with texts and calls? Also, the poke. WTF.
posted by SillyShepherd at 12:20 PM on December 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by SillyShepherd at 12:20 PM on December 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I know i already commented, but after the update and letting this one stew in my brain for a bit...
A very good friend of mine had a boyfriend like this. He responded like this in several situations, and the last straw ended up being him refusing to defend her or respond in any way to someone heckling her and making gross sexist and sexual comments to her on the bus... When he was sitting right there.
He always sidestepped getting involved in any situation in which she was being harassed or felt uncomfortable because somehow it "wasn't his place" and would just deflect blame whenever he had to talk to someone about a situation like this on to her in a way that basically said "i don't really care, but she does".
Your boyfriend refused to take ownership of a situation he initiated by agreeing to this in the first place that made you uncomfortable and put you in an unsafe position.
He will do this again.
Please don't just write this off as "oh, he's really passive sometimes" or something. He's making a conscious choice here to not take ownership of this kind of stuff because on some level, he just sees it as "lady drama" or something to that effect. In the end, he just doesn't take this seriously because it's happening to you and because it's a woman-thing.
Your warning was a pretty fucking serious situation.
Do you really want to know how disappointingly he's going to respond if something bad actually happens to you? This is the kind of guy who will stay friends with someone who groped you at a party, or something awful like that.
He took your side, sort of, but in the way that a little kid being told to put away his gameboy and eat dinner did. Dragging his feet and rolling his eyes.
I've posted less than 5 comments in almost 10 years of being on here to the green that amount to DTMFA, and i was compelled to return and say essentially that. Take that for what it's worth.
posted by emptythought at 5:08 PM on December 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
A very good friend of mine had a boyfriend like this. He responded like this in several situations, and the last straw ended up being him refusing to defend her or respond in any way to someone heckling her and making gross sexist and sexual comments to her on the bus... When he was sitting right there.
He always sidestepped getting involved in any situation in which she was being harassed or felt uncomfortable because somehow it "wasn't his place" and would just deflect blame whenever he had to talk to someone about a situation like this on to her in a way that basically said "i don't really care, but she does".
Your boyfriend refused to take ownership of a situation he initiated by agreeing to this in the first place that made you uncomfortable and put you in an unsafe position.
He will do this again.
Please don't just write this off as "oh, he's really passive sometimes" or something. He's making a conscious choice here to not take ownership of this kind of stuff because on some level, he just sees it as "lady drama" or something to that effect. In the end, he just doesn't take this seriously because it's happening to you and because it's a woman-thing.
Your warning was a pretty fucking serious situation.
Do you really want to know how disappointingly he's going to respond if something bad actually happens to you? This is the kind of guy who will stay friends with someone who groped you at a party, or something awful like that.
He took your side, sort of, but in the way that a little kid being told to put away his gameboy and eat dinner did. Dragging his feet and rolling his eyes.
I've posted less than 5 comments in almost 10 years of being on here to the green that amount to DTMFA, and i was compelled to return and say essentially that. Take that for what it's worth.
posted by emptythought at 5:08 PM on December 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by phunniemee at 2:46 PM on December 8, 2015 [23 favorites]