How much drama should be tolerated at the beginning of a relationship?
December 5, 2015 9:12 AM Subscribe
This has been my first relationship, so I am not sure how much conflict, misunderstanding, moody behaviour and mixed signals should be considered normal and acceptable. I don't like some of her actions, should I be patient or is it time to stand up for myself?
We've been dating for three months. Our first two encounters were low-pressure coffee dates with interesting conversation in which we found a lot of common interests and shared values. Soon afterwards she decided to change the relationship status to casual sex only. I accepted and we became fuck-buddies for some time, with very little talk about other areas of our lives outside sex. She later confessed that she thought I was a womanizer who was only after casual sex, and that had motivated her cold, aloof and distant attitude toward me. Once I told her I was not seeing other women, and that I found her interesting and would be open to consider a more stable relationship with her, we agreed to restart the process of getting to know each other better. Then, we could decide whether a more serious relationship was viable or not.
She said she is usually reluctanct to open up and become invested in a partner because she got badly hurt in a previous relationship (she told me I remind her of him) and has not completely healed her emotional wounds yet. That, she explained, is the reason for her not being warm and affectionate.
The drama I refer to in my title is:
1) She often agrees enthusiastically (and sometimes even proposes herself) to meet up on a specific time and venue, but later cancels. Although she has not given me good reasons for her flakiness, she suggested that she wants to take things slow and avoid getting too involved too soon. She has also pointed out that she is unsure whether I am trustworthy.
2) When we meet and have sex she seems cheerful and playful, laughing a lot and agreeing to most things I propose to do. But later she texts me complaining she felt used and humiliated. This has happened twice, even though I asked her at the end of our meetings how she had felt and at the time she responded that she had had a really good time. When asked about her change of attitude she responded that "it is different when we are face to face".
3) She has said several times that she enjoys being with me and that she finds me interesting, considerate, and would like to get to know me better. But she has also remarked that I shouldn't give her more than she gives in return or expect much from her. Otherwise, she says, I might get hurt.
When she is in her good mood, I enjoy talking to her, as we share many concerns , values and sense of humor. I think sex is also good.
But then there is also this other, less pleasant side to her personality which surfaces at times with disproportionately strong accusations and complaints, even name-calling against me.
As a newcomer to the relationship world, I have a few questions: what's the limit between being tolerant and understanding of another person's tantrums, and letting others treat you as a doormat? Is it common for relationships to start with some conflict of this sort and then improve? Or is this usually doomed to get only worse?
I would really appreciate your insights.
We've been dating for three months. Our first two encounters were low-pressure coffee dates with interesting conversation in which we found a lot of common interests and shared values. Soon afterwards she decided to change the relationship status to casual sex only. I accepted and we became fuck-buddies for some time, with very little talk about other areas of our lives outside sex. She later confessed that she thought I was a womanizer who was only after casual sex, and that had motivated her cold, aloof and distant attitude toward me. Once I told her I was not seeing other women, and that I found her interesting and would be open to consider a more stable relationship with her, we agreed to restart the process of getting to know each other better. Then, we could decide whether a more serious relationship was viable or not.
She said she is usually reluctanct to open up and become invested in a partner because she got badly hurt in a previous relationship (she told me I remind her of him) and has not completely healed her emotional wounds yet. That, she explained, is the reason for her not being warm and affectionate.
The drama I refer to in my title is:
1) She often agrees enthusiastically (and sometimes even proposes herself) to meet up on a specific time and venue, but later cancels. Although she has not given me good reasons for her flakiness, she suggested that she wants to take things slow and avoid getting too involved too soon. She has also pointed out that she is unsure whether I am trustworthy.
2) When we meet and have sex she seems cheerful and playful, laughing a lot and agreeing to most things I propose to do. But later she texts me complaining she felt used and humiliated. This has happened twice, even though I asked her at the end of our meetings how she had felt and at the time she responded that she had had a really good time. When asked about her change of attitude she responded that "it is different when we are face to face".
3) She has said several times that she enjoys being with me and that she finds me interesting, considerate, and would like to get to know me better. But she has also remarked that I shouldn't give her more than she gives in return or expect much from her. Otherwise, she says, I might get hurt.
When she is in her good mood, I enjoy talking to her, as we share many concerns , values and sense of humor. I think sex is also good.
But then there is also this other, less pleasant side to her personality which surfaces at times with disproportionately strong accusations and complaints, even name-calling against me.
As a newcomer to the relationship world, I have a few questions: what's the limit between being tolerant and understanding of another person's tantrums, and letting others treat you as a doormat? Is it common for relationships to start with some conflict of this sort and then improve? Or is this usually doomed to get only worse?
I would really appreciate your insights.
How much drama should be tolerated at the beginning of a relationship?
Expanding upon my knee-jerk response of none, my answer is not nearly this much.
She's using her own baggage to dictate who you are and how the relationship between the two of you is going to go without factoring who you actually are or what is actually happening into it at all. She's being dismissive of your time and your feelings, and turning your interactions back on you to make you out to be some womanizing bad guy user. Which is ironically exactly what she's doing to you.
You don't need this shit. Bye, Felicia.
posted by phunniemee at 9:24 AM on December 5, 2015 [84 favorites]
Expanding upon my knee-jerk response of none, my answer is not nearly this much.
She's using her own baggage to dictate who you are and how the relationship between the two of you is going to go without factoring who you actually are or what is actually happening into it at all. She's being dismissive of your time and your feelings, and turning your interactions back on you to make you out to be some womanizing bad guy user. Which is ironically exactly what she's doing to you.
You don't need this shit. Bye, Felicia.
posted by phunniemee at 9:24 AM on December 5, 2015 [84 favorites]
I mean, you set your tolerance boundaries. If somebody I was dating acted this way, I'd bail, but I'm way older than you are, and most of this behavior just reads as really, really young.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 9:25 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by pretentious illiterate at 9:25 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
How much drama? During the first year or so?
None. I'm serious.
posted by jbenben at 9:28 AM on December 5, 2015 [36 favorites]
None. I'm serious.
posted by jbenben at 9:28 AM on December 5, 2015 [36 favorites]
Yea, I think she needs some space to figure out what she wants so that you don't get hurt in the process. In a sense she told you this up front, in that she knows she can't trust herself not to hurt you. I'm big on "listen to what people tell you about themselves."
I'd step away for awhile and let her figure her stuff out. You never know what will happen.
posted by cabingirl at 9:32 AM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd step away for awhile and let her figure her stuff out. You never know what will happen.
posted by cabingirl at 9:32 AM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is this the same person you've posted about before? This is too much drama.
posted by k8t at 9:37 AM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by k8t at 9:37 AM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
#2 and #3 would be deal-breakers for me, especially when combined with She later confessed that she thought I was a womanizer who was only after casual sex, - she didn't ask you if you were seeing other people? Just assumed you were? Didn't talk to you about it? Etc.
These kinds of communication issues, appearing as they do right from the beginning, are setting a tone and expectations that I find really troubling. Everyone learns things in their first relationship but this is more like you've jumped into the deep end with no swimming skills and no life jacket.
posted by rtha at 9:37 AM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
These kinds of communication issues, appearing as they do right from the beginning, are setting a tone and expectations that I find really troubling. Everyone learns things in their first relationship but this is more like you've jumped into the deep end with no swimming skills and no life jacket.
posted by rtha at 9:37 AM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
Texting you that she felt humiliated and used after sex is.... Do Not Have Sex w/ This Person Again.
What happens when she escalates and tells this to friends? Posts it on social media? Or tells this to the police??
For the record, it's not your place to define how sex makes her feel. Since she seems to have deep conflicting feelings about sex, you should show some wisdom and stop participating with her conflicting emotions.
This is not for you to fix.
In general, these are the types of flags that signal life derailing drama filled first relationship. You don't need this experience. Move on. Slow respectful fade, move on.
posted by jbenben at 9:40 AM on December 5, 2015 [99 favorites]
What happens when she escalates and tells this to friends? Posts it on social media? Or tells this to the police??
For the record, it's not your place to define how sex makes her feel. Since she seems to have deep conflicting feelings about sex, you should show some wisdom and stop participating with her conflicting emotions.
This is not for you to fix.
In general, these are the types of flags that signal life derailing drama filled first relationship. You don't need this experience. Move on. Slow respectful fade, move on.
posted by jbenben at 9:40 AM on December 5, 2015 [99 favorites]
Run away from the cray-cray. The fact that she's had bad experiences with other men doesn't give her the right to treat you like crap. It really doesn't give her the right to treat you like crap and then pretend that it's somehow your fault because you haven't yet proven yourself to be trustworthy.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:41 AM on December 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 9:41 AM on December 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
The bit that, for me, goes from immature and insecure to downright concerning is her apparent second thoughts after your sexual encounters. I feel like this is potentially dangerous for you. You can't control her actions and reactions, but you can make it so you aren't vulnerable to her--by not having sex with her. Also, HER being flakey because she is unsure she can trust YOU is too much game-playing. In your position, I would kindly break it off with her, chalk it up to experience and go find someone with whom to have a relationship that isn't so fraught.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:42 AM on December 5, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 9:42 AM on December 5, 2015 [21 favorites]
This is not just conflict, this is manipulation and a lot of scary flags. Run.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:44 AM on December 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 9:44 AM on December 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
Don't have sex with anyone who tells you they feel humiliated and used by you. Whether she's serious or just intentionally trying to stir up drama, that's an immediate end to having sex. Her saying "It's different face to face" could very well be construed as her feeling too intimidated to tell you the truth or to say no to your requests. Y'all should not be having a sexual relationship if that dynamic is even potentially in play.
posted by jaguar at 9:46 AM on December 5, 2015 [69 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 9:46 AM on December 5, 2015 [69 favorites]
There are a million fish in the sea. You can find a more suitable partner. Be prepared for chasing behavior when you back off, so stick to your guns.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:48 AM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 9:48 AM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
we all expect your next askme to be about a new person in your life.
posted by andrewcooke at 9:51 AM on December 5, 2015 [40 favorites]
posted by andrewcooke at 9:51 AM on December 5, 2015 [40 favorites]
The limit was back down the road about 10 miles... The nicest way to put it is she doesn't sound emotionally stable. You seem incredibly tolerant, but this kind of behavior is not going to get better with time, not without therapy and work on her part. Cut your losses here and run.
posted by cecic at 9:51 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by cecic at 9:51 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Walk away quickly.
In addition to the red flags others have pointed out, she suggested a casual sexual relationship based on an imaginary version of you. If a woman suggests a casual sexual relationship, it should be because she herself has decided that what SHE really wants is a casual sexual relationship.
She created a scenario in which you're "demanding" something and she's "settling" for it and this all happened when you weren't even in the room yet!
Don't try to explain any of this to her. Just make a break, tell her this isn't working for you, not a good match, and then move on.
Do not try to explain it.
And don't have sex again. She's just not ready, even though she wants to be.
posted by vitabellosi at 9:54 AM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
In addition to the red flags others have pointed out, she suggested a casual sexual relationship based on an imaginary version of you. If a woman suggests a casual sexual relationship, it should be because she herself has decided that what SHE really wants is a casual sexual relationship.
She created a scenario in which you're "demanding" something and she's "settling" for it and this all happened when you weren't even in the room yet!
Don't try to explain any of this to her. Just make a break, tell her this isn't working for you, not a good match, and then move on.
Do not try to explain it.
And don't have sex again. She's just not ready, even though she wants to be.
posted by vitabellosi at 9:54 AM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
This is too much drama. As everyone else says, her feeling humiliated and used, and not able to say no at the time, is a very serious issue. If she doesn't / can't put a stop to the physical action but later deeply regrets it, then you should.
And generally, if you can't trust that her enthusiasm (e.g., about making plans) reflects her true feelings and wishes, whether because she can't express them or because they are so mixed, it's hard to have an adult relationship.
posted by salvia at 9:54 AM on December 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
And generally, if you can't trust that her enthusiasm (e.g., about making plans) reflects her true feelings and wishes, whether because she can't express them or because they are so mixed, it's hard to have an adult relationship.
posted by salvia at 9:54 AM on December 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
My intuition says she was hurt very badly in the past and is trying to use tricks (manipulation) to "guarantee" she won't be hurt in the same way again ("if I do X, Y, and Z he'll be so into me that he'll never treat me like Sam did"). But it's poisoning the well with you and it's not something you need or want to deal with. Cut her loose and think a few good thoughts for her that she has some more time and space to heal and a healthier way to do it.
posted by sallybrown at 9:56 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 9:56 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
omg run like the wind. LIKE THE WIND.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:01 AM on December 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:01 AM on December 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
You posted earlier about how she ditches you for other plans with other people regularly. No one should be treated this way by anyone, especially not a girlfriend.
My read is that she is using you for a hookup and flattery when she needs it and is saying these rude things to you in the off times so you won't get so attached.
You deserve a nice girlfriend that cares about you. Dump this one asap.
posted by k8t at 10:03 AM on December 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
My read is that she is using you for a hookup and flattery when she needs it and is saying these rude things to you in the off times so you won't get so attached.
You deserve a nice girlfriend that cares about you. Dump this one asap.
posted by k8t at 10:03 AM on December 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
She's worrying about you being untrustworthy when she is actually ACTING untrustworthy. I wouldn't put any more effort into this relationship at all.
posted by MsMolly at 10:08 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 10:08 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
WAY TOO MUCH DRAMA. So many red flags here. Do you really want to be dealing with this type of behavior long term? Believe me, most women are NOT like this.
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:08 AM on December 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:08 AM on December 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
With luck, your soon-to-be ex will get whatever help she needs to become a healthier, happier person. You shouldn't be her punching bag in the meantime. The many problems with continuing to see this woman include:
1. As others have pointed out, the sex situation is way dangerous (for both of you, actually, if what she texts is true).
2. You may absorb some of her wrong ideas about you and come to think of yourself as deserving of poor treatment or
3. You may come to think of her behaviour as normal or acceptable.
4. You may become accustomed to drama, without realising it, and begin to crave it or seek it out in the future.
So nope, nope, nope. Enough, already. End this now. You deserve a fun, sexy, warm, loving, healthy relationship with a fun, sexy, warm, loving, healthy gal. In the meantime, date yourself. Love yourself. Enjoy your own good company and that of friends. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 10:21 AM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
1. As others have pointed out, the sex situation is way dangerous (for both of you, actually, if what she texts is true).
2. You may absorb some of her wrong ideas about you and come to think of yourself as deserving of poor treatment or
3. You may come to think of her behaviour as normal or acceptable.
4. You may become accustomed to drama, without realising it, and begin to crave it or seek it out in the future.
So nope, nope, nope. Enough, already. End this now. You deserve a fun, sexy, warm, loving, healthy relationship with a fun, sexy, warm, loving, healthy gal. In the meantime, date yourself. Love yourself. Enjoy your own good company and that of friends. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 10:21 AM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
She says "yes" to doing things and then cancels, thinks you're a womaniser, thinks you're untrustworthy, doesn't feel comfortable saying stop to a sexual activity you're engaging in with her, calls you names and throws tantrums, and yet she's still in a relationship with you? If I were her, I'd be asking myself what I was thinking staying involved with someone who made me feel like saying/doing the above. If you're such an awful partner, what is she doing in a relationship with you? The early stages of a relationship are generally the time when an individual is on their best behaviour as they're trying to make a good impression.
Not feeling comfortable saying "actually, could you stop doing that?" during sex is kind of a red flag. If you're the uncomfortable party, it's really awkward and non-consensual, which is obviously not OK. On the flip side, though, it's good to be able to trust the person you're engaging in sexual activities with to say "actually, could you stop doing that?" if they're uncomfortable, because most people don't actually want to do things to people that they don't want. From both sides of that fence, you need to be able to engage in clear and explicit communication about what you wanted versus what is actually happening. If both of you can't have that communication, the sex needs to be stopped dead in its tracks. It is absolutely an individual's right to say "that wasn't consensual" during or after the fact. I'd be horrified to think that I'd done something to someone that they didn't want, but I'd also be constantly wondering if the other person actually was consenting the next time we did [the thing]. I'd not put myself in the situation of maybe doing something wrong again until after making sure that the person was OK with [the thing]. All of which is to say, until you can have an open dialogue about what you both want and how you want it, don't be having sex again.
I don't know why she's treating you this badly, but I'm wondering if it's some sort of revenge type thing. She's acting in the same way that the person who treated her badly acted, and because she can't get back at them, she's taking it out on you instead. Overall, I think the reason she's treating you badly doesn't really matter. What matters is that she's treating you badly. Relationships are supposed to be fun and exciting, not a HOT and then COLD and then HOT again mess like this one is. It might get better, or it might not, but one thing I can guarantee is that there are relationships out there, that you can have, that are already better than this. You don't have to wait for this particular cake to finish cooking to get a tasty slice. There are lots of precooked tasty slices out there right now.
posted by Solomon at 10:25 AM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not feeling comfortable saying "actually, could you stop doing that?" during sex is kind of a red flag. If you're the uncomfortable party, it's really awkward and non-consensual, which is obviously not OK. On the flip side, though, it's good to be able to trust the person you're engaging in sexual activities with to say "actually, could you stop doing that?" if they're uncomfortable, because most people don't actually want to do things to people that they don't want. From both sides of that fence, you need to be able to engage in clear and explicit communication about what you wanted versus what is actually happening. If both of you can't have that communication, the sex needs to be stopped dead in its tracks. It is absolutely an individual's right to say "that wasn't consensual" during or after the fact. I'd be horrified to think that I'd done something to someone that they didn't want, but I'd also be constantly wondering if the other person actually was consenting the next time we did [the thing]. I'd not put myself in the situation of maybe doing something wrong again until after making sure that the person was OK with [the thing]. All of which is to say, until you can have an open dialogue about what you both want and how you want it, don't be having sex again.
I don't know why she's treating you this badly, but I'm wondering if it's some sort of revenge type thing. She's acting in the same way that the person who treated her badly acted, and because she can't get back at them, she's taking it out on you instead. Overall, I think the reason she's treating you badly doesn't really matter. What matters is that she's treating you badly. Relationships are supposed to be fun and exciting, not a HOT and then COLD and then HOT again mess like this one is. It might get better, or it might not, but one thing I can guarantee is that there are relationships out there, that you can have, that are already better than this. You don't have to wait for this particular cake to finish cooking to get a tasty slice. There are lots of precooked tasty slices out there right now.
posted by Solomon at 10:25 AM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oohboy, a pileon! I will sound off to say that young people often just suck at human relations - lord knows I did. This is, from my point of view, a totally normal level of drama, and Dumping that Mixed-up Friend is a totally normal reaction. Have a Talk, go no-contact, whatever you like.
Do not continue this relationship. Failing to terminate would be normal, and a mistake. This is a totally normal mistake for young people to make. You have a thread full of Olds saying DTMFA. I suggest you take our advice.
posted by BrunoLatourFanclub at 10:35 AM on December 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
Do not continue this relationship. Failing to terminate would be normal, and a mistake. This is a totally normal mistake for young people to make. You have a thread full of Olds saying DTMFA. I suggest you take our advice.
posted by BrunoLatourFanclub at 10:35 AM on December 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
This is what I learned from Metafilter: the right sort of relationship is easy from the beginning. You're both equally into each other and there isn't any sort of Hollywood hate-at-first-sight-that-somehow-transforms-into-true-love. It's just fun and easy and sexy and you walk around grinning like idiots because you can't believe your good fortune.
I read about those sorts of relationships here on Metafilter when I had very little dating experience, and the only pseudo-relationships I'd been in were drama-filled and anxiety-provoking. In fact, all of the relationships around me looked like that: full of drama and confusion and jealousy and anger and anxiety. So I had no real-life proof that Metafilter was right--that love didn't have to be dramatic to be good--and it seemed like an almost ludicrous proposition. But after a while I got so I trusted Metafilter, so I decided to stop pining over guys who did the push-pull thing and keep my eye out for guys who weren't afraid of feelings or actual communication.
And it took a while, but I eventually met a guy who is like that, and the beginning was just as easy as Metafilter said it could be. We had to sort some stuff out at the 6 month mark, but even that was not terribly dramatic: we had a couple of long conversations and I asked him to change some things and he did. 2.5 years later, we still walk around, holding hands and grinning as wide-as-can-be because life is so good. If you're stuck in the middle of a drama-filled relationship, it can be easy to think that this is as good as it gets, but it's really really not.
posted by colfax at 10:38 AM on December 5, 2015 [73 favorites]
I read about those sorts of relationships here on Metafilter when I had very little dating experience, and the only pseudo-relationships I'd been in were drama-filled and anxiety-provoking. In fact, all of the relationships around me looked like that: full of drama and confusion and jealousy and anger and anxiety. So I had no real-life proof that Metafilter was right--that love didn't have to be dramatic to be good--and it seemed like an almost ludicrous proposition. But after a while I got so I trusted Metafilter, so I decided to stop pining over guys who did the push-pull thing and keep my eye out for guys who weren't afraid of feelings or actual communication.
And it took a while, but I eventually met a guy who is like that, and the beginning was just as easy as Metafilter said it could be. We had to sort some stuff out at the 6 month mark, but even that was not terribly dramatic: we had a couple of long conversations and I asked him to change some things and he did. 2.5 years later, we still walk around, holding hands and grinning as wide-as-can-be because life is so good. If you're stuck in the middle of a drama-filled relationship, it can be easy to think that this is as good as it gets, but it's really really not.
posted by colfax at 10:38 AM on December 5, 2015 [73 favorites]
Usually the beginning of a relationship is the least drama filled time you get with someone. If someone has this much drama to start, it really doesn't bode well for the rest of the relationship.
Also, what they said about exiting soon.
posted by toomanycurls at 10:45 AM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Also, what they said about exiting soon.
posted by toomanycurls at 10:45 AM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Run, do not walk, as far and as fast as you can.
Look, you've only been dating for three months --- three itty-bitty months, that's still the 'honeymoon' phase when everyone is still on their best behavior. Think about that for a minute: this pushme-pullyou shit is her best behavior: she hasn't even shown you her bad side yet, it'll only get worse from here.
Run, now.
posted by easily confused at 10:49 AM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
Look, you've only been dating for three months --- three itty-bitty months, that's still the 'honeymoon' phase when everyone is still on their best behavior. Think about that for a minute: this pushme-pullyou shit is her best behavior: she hasn't even shown you her bad side yet, it'll only get worse from here.
Run, now.
posted by easily confused at 10:49 AM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
Yeah, wow. A doozy indeed. If she regrets having sex with you, then don't have sex with her. If she routinely flakes on dates, then don't make dates with her.
posted by adamrice at 10:50 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
she has also remarked that I shouldn't give her more than she gives in return or expect much from her. Otherwise, she says, I might get hurt.She is telling you what to expect from her. Listen.
what's the limit between being tolerant and understanding of another person's tantrums, and letting others treat you as a doormat?Tantrums? Is she 5 years old? Tantrums are unacceptable in adults.
posted by adamrice at 10:50 AM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
My girlfriend and I have been together for nearly five years, and we are very happy together. When I answer questions like yours, I remind myself that at the end of our first date I thought that she wasn't interested in me, and at the end of our second date she thought that I probably wasn't a good guy for her to continue seeing. Good relationships can have rough starts and still turn out ok, but I don't think that that's going to happen here.
In the interest of not using ableist language, I won't tell you to run, but I will tell you to move away from this person by the fastest method of locomotion that is currently available to you.
In my experience, most people who tell you that you shouldn't expect much from them because you might get hurt will either use that as cover to engage in some shitty behavior or will later get super-angry that you took their advice and didn't get too attached.
"I don't want to get hurt" is one of the most eye-rolling phrases in a relationship, because no reasonable person wants to get hurt. So when someone says that they're doing something because they don't want to get hurt, always ask yourself whether or not what they're doing is what a reasonable person would do in avoidance of getting hurt.
If a reasonable person thought that you were untrustworthy to the point that they felt the need to flake on you, would they subsequently have sex with you? Probably not.
If a reasonable person felt used and humiliated by having sex with you, would they enthusiastically agree to do the same thing a second time? Probably not.
Would a reasonable person stay with someone that they felt the need to call names? Probably not.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to avoid getting hurt; reasonable people do it all the time. The problem is that the steps that this person is taking aren't reasonable steps. If you want to avoid getting hurt yourself (and you should), do the reasonable thing and move away from people who act this way.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:13 AM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
In the interest of not using ableist language, I won't tell you to run, but I will tell you to move away from this person by the fastest method of locomotion that is currently available to you.
In my experience, most people who tell you that you shouldn't expect much from them because you might get hurt will either use that as cover to engage in some shitty behavior or will later get super-angry that you took their advice and didn't get too attached.
"I don't want to get hurt" is one of the most eye-rolling phrases in a relationship, because no reasonable person wants to get hurt. So when someone says that they're doing something because they don't want to get hurt, always ask yourself whether or not what they're doing is what a reasonable person would do in avoidance of getting hurt.
If a reasonable person thought that you were untrustworthy to the point that they felt the need to flake on you, would they subsequently have sex with you? Probably not.
If a reasonable person felt used and humiliated by having sex with you, would they enthusiastically agree to do the same thing a second time? Probably not.
Would a reasonable person stay with someone that they felt the need to call names? Probably not.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to avoid getting hurt; reasonable people do it all the time. The problem is that the steps that this person is taking aren't reasonable steps. If you want to avoid getting hurt yourself (and you should), do the reasonable thing and move away from people who act this way.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:13 AM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
You've asked four questions in less than two months about this relationship and have been advised time and time again to break up with person. Just end it already.
You're not having all these, "Is this behavior acceptable ?" questions because you're new to dating, you're having all these questions because you're completely ignoring your instincts. I know it sounds like corny advice, but trust your gut because it was smart enough to know that something didn't sit well with you.
But then there is also this other, less pleasant side to her personality which surfaces at times with disproportionately strong accusations and complaints, even name-calling against me.
Why in a million years would you want to be with ANYONE who does this to you??!
posted by kinetic at 11:16 AM on December 5, 2015 [34 favorites]
You're not having all these, "Is this behavior acceptable ?" questions because you're new to dating, you're having all these questions because you're completely ignoring your instincts. I know it sounds like corny advice, but trust your gut because it was smart enough to know that something didn't sit well with you.
But then there is also this other, less pleasant side to her personality which surfaces at times with disproportionately strong accusations and complaints, even name-calling against me.
Why in a million years would you want to be with ANYONE who does this to you??!
posted by kinetic at 11:16 AM on December 5, 2015 [34 favorites]
You said that even though she seemed cheerful and happy when you were physically together, afterwards she decided not ONCE but TWICE complaining that she felt used and humiliated.
OMFG get out NOW. Do you realize what a tiny step it is to go from this to her deciding that she was sexually assaulted and having you possibly GO TO JAIL?
posted by kinetic at 11:53 AM on December 5, 2015 [14 favorites]
OMFG get out NOW. Do you realize what a tiny step it is to go from this to her deciding that she was sexually assaulted and having you possibly GO TO JAIL?
posted by kinetic at 11:53 AM on December 5, 2015 [14 favorites]
Drawing from from the experience of having asked anonymously about such things; let me say that when metafilter offers you such a uniform set of responses, you take the advice and go forward with a lighter heart.
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:58 AM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:58 AM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would not have sex or be alone with someone who acts one very positive way about sex then acts one very negative way about it later.
It could go very poorly, and this immature person may not realize the damage they can do when they do it. I'm in no way saying women lie about rape (I believe quite the opposite), but if someone did this is how they would act. I would not take that risk.
I've seen people convince themselves something happened a certain way over time about all sorts of issues especially when prone to very black and white thinking. Leave this potential drama as far behind you as you can.
Again, I hope this post does not sound insensitive to survivors of rape. If people feel it is, mods please delete.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:10 PM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
It could go very poorly, and this immature person may not realize the damage they can do when they do it. I'm in no way saying women lie about rape (I believe quite the opposite), but if someone did this is how they would act. I would not take that risk.
I've seen people convince themselves something happened a certain way over time about all sorts of issues especially when prone to very black and white thinking. Leave this potential drama as far behind you as you can.
Again, I hope this post does not sound insensitive to survivors of rape. If people feel it is, mods please delete.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:10 PM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
I cannot think of a single relationship that anyone I know has ever had that has started with large amounts of drama and then improved. Sometimes there is a small amount of drama at the beginning, usually in "right person, wrong time" scenarios, but it either settles down pretty quickly or the whole things ends. I think if it has been like this for three whole months it is only going to get worse.
posted by intensitymultiply at 1:09 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by intensitymultiply at 1:09 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Definitely break up with her asap. This sounds unstable and potentially could blow up. For a break up though, play super nice. I could see her getting pretty nasty.
posted by Toddles at 1:09 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 1:09 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is the perfect example of a situation where DTMFA is called for.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:25 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:25 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, you should end it with this person. So, for reference regarding the next person: generally speaking, I think the answer to the question "How much drama should be tolerated in a new relationship?" is "slightly less than the amount that causes you to ask this question". I'm not really being flip. Whatever your tolerance (or desire) for drama is, you will know you're reaching your limit when you're wondering what the limit is, because there is no "the limit", there's just "your limit", and you're the only one who knows what that is.
There are times in deeply committed relationships when you weather an extended storm, because you believe it will pass and you have enough experience to trust that it will not always be this difficult. You cannot make a relationship work by jumping straight to this step, you have to grow with your partner into it. Most people try to be the best version of themselves at the beginning of the relationship. So this is her best version. It doesn't seem very good for you. With the next person, don't expect perfection, but instead of trying to figure out how much pain is acceptable, look to see if her demonstrated best qualities work for you. Her demonstrated best qualities, not the ones she says she has or you hope she has. At the beginning of a relationship you should be thinking about how great the person is, not whether they're under some arbitrary flaw threshold.
posted by Errant at 2:19 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
There are times in deeply committed relationships when you weather an extended storm, because you believe it will pass and you have enough experience to trust that it will not always be this difficult. You cannot make a relationship work by jumping straight to this step, you have to grow with your partner into it. Most people try to be the best version of themselves at the beginning of the relationship. So this is her best version. It doesn't seem very good for you. With the next person, don't expect perfection, but instead of trying to figure out how much pain is acceptable, look to see if her demonstrated best qualities work for you. Her demonstrated best qualities, not the ones she says she has or you hope she has. At the beginning of a relationship you should be thinking about how great the person is, not whether they're under some arbitrary flaw threshold.
posted by Errant at 2:19 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don't think she's having a relationship with you. It sounds like you are a prop in a relationship she is having with herself.
posted by cleroy at 2:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [31 favorites]
posted by cleroy at 2:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [31 favorites]
I'd also like to suggest that you take a good look at yourself. I see your entire history of questions is about this very new relationship, about every little detail — is seeing a cartoon too unmanly? can I go down on her on a second date? do I need to tell her I'll be using Viagra? how can I prepare for being dumped? — and it's my impression that you're bringing at least as much drama into the relationship as she is.
Seriously, you need to chill, too. Her drama may be her own thing, but it may also be a reaction to your own insecurities, mixed signals, doormat tendencies, and -- frankly -- sexism. You sound a touch misogynistic, and definitely very insecure. I'd suggest spending some time getting to know yourself a bit better before having relationships with women, especially those who have a history of betrayal. I'm guessing you're raising red flags for her, triggering her, and it may be because you're trying to control her or control her impressions of you too tightly, or because of what comes across to me as a near-total obsession with sex (which also comes across as bizarrely mechanical and impersonal. Seriously, planning whether to go down on her with input from internet strangers?).
I apologize for coming down so hard on you, but everyone upthread has really trashed your partner, and I'd like you to consider that a big part of the drama could be what you're bringing to the relationship. Just ease up. Let things flow. Be a friend, and in time be a lover, and stop trying to map every little thing out. Relationships need to breathe.
posted by Capri at 2:44 PM on December 5, 2015 [30 favorites]
Seriously, you need to chill, too. Her drama may be her own thing, but it may also be a reaction to your own insecurities, mixed signals, doormat tendencies, and -- frankly -- sexism. You sound a touch misogynistic, and definitely very insecure. I'd suggest spending some time getting to know yourself a bit better before having relationships with women, especially those who have a history of betrayal. I'm guessing you're raising red flags for her, triggering her, and it may be because you're trying to control her or control her impressions of you too tightly, or because of what comes across to me as a near-total obsession with sex (which also comes across as bizarrely mechanical and impersonal. Seriously, planning whether to go down on her with input from internet strangers?).
I apologize for coming down so hard on you, but everyone upthread has really trashed your partner, and I'd like you to consider that a big part of the drama could be what you're bringing to the relationship. Just ease up. Let things flow. Be a friend, and in time be a lover, and stop trying to map every little thing out. Relationships need to breathe.
posted by Capri at 2:44 PM on December 5, 2015 [30 favorites]
There is no circumstance under which sleeping with someone who reminds you of someone that seriously hurt you and taking it out on him leads to good things. She should either be looking to get involved with someone as unlike her ex as possible or doing something therapeutic, not sleeping with the ghost of her ex and making you pay for his crimes.
But you should also be asking yourself why you have put up with this for three months.
This may be your first romantic/sexual relationship, but it is not your first relationship ever or you wouldn't be able to type understandable English to post a question here. Sexual relationships are, first and foremost, relationships. They aren't somehow fundamentally and completely different from other interactions with other human beings.
Would you put up with a friend who constantly cancelled on you? No? Then why are you putting up with it from her?
Would you let a friend dictate the nature and definition of the friendship ("casual sex only")? No? Then why are you letting her do that?
A good relationship is a symbiotic relationship where, ideally, both people get more out of its existence than they put into it. It should create value for both of them that is more than the sum of its parts. But it isn't somehow entirely unrelated to talking to people you aren't having sex with.
I think you need to stop seeing yourself as "new to relationships". You have been interacting with other human beings your entire life. Every interaction you ever had has taught you something, shaped your expectations and self image and so on.
You should perhaps wonder what negative experiences you have had that have so convinced you that you can't figure any of this out on your own, that every little thing requires crowdsourced feedback. You are presumably over the age of 18, so you have at least 18 years of experience interacting with other members of your species. It is time for you draw on some of those experiences and stop seeing yourself as a babe in the woods with no clue whatsoever what they should do when interacting with another member of their species.
posted by Michele in California at 3:22 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
But you should also be asking yourself why you have put up with this for three months.
This may be your first romantic/sexual relationship, but it is not your first relationship ever or you wouldn't be able to type understandable English to post a question here. Sexual relationships are, first and foremost, relationships. They aren't somehow fundamentally and completely different from other interactions with other human beings.
Would you put up with a friend who constantly cancelled on you? No? Then why are you putting up with it from her?
Would you let a friend dictate the nature and definition of the friendship ("casual sex only")? No? Then why are you letting her do that?
A good relationship is a symbiotic relationship where, ideally, both people get more out of its existence than they put into it. It should create value for both of them that is more than the sum of its parts. But it isn't somehow entirely unrelated to talking to people you aren't having sex with.
I think you need to stop seeing yourself as "new to relationships". You have been interacting with other human beings your entire life. Every interaction you ever had has taught you something, shaped your expectations and self image and so on.
You should perhaps wonder what negative experiences you have had that have so convinced you that you can't figure any of this out on your own, that every little thing requires crowdsourced feedback. You are presumably over the age of 18, so you have at least 18 years of experience interacting with other members of your species. It is time for you draw on some of those experiences and stop seeing yourself as a babe in the woods with no clue whatsoever what they should do when interacting with another member of their species.
posted by Michele in California at 3:22 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
She's fucked-up. Go.
I think we're all allowed one relationship in which we stick around with the person for far too long but honestly 48 hours is far, far too long in this case. Go Go Go Go Go.
posted by destructive cactus at 3:30 PM on December 5, 2015
I think we're all allowed one relationship in which we stick around with the person for far too long but honestly 48 hours is far, far too long in this case. Go Go Go Go Go.
posted by destructive cactus at 3:30 PM on December 5, 2015
I'd say run, or at least let her know that the fuckbuddy thing was working much better for you than what you describe above. This: later she texts me complaining she felt used and humiliated and this: she says, I might get hurt are very dangerous red flags, so maybe just end it. Lots of people to date out there, and even boring dates and mediocre sex are better than what you are dealing with here.
posted by vrakatar at 4:42 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by vrakatar at 4:42 PM on December 5, 2015
A huge red flag is that she is not respecting herself. Respect her- no more sex. How you do that and how you define the relationship afterwards is up to you but at a minimum you cannot have sex with her until she learns how to communicate feelings in the moment. Trust me I know from experience about these things from being the girl who couldnt say no. Thankfully I'm way better now, but there are experiences I regret because I didn't have that skill set.
I wouldn't tolerate this drama, and neither should you.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:55 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I wouldn't tolerate this drama, and neither should you.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:55 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
This may be just "drama," but it actually looks a lot more like acute, untreated mental illness to me. It's her set of problems, not yours. Happiness does not lie in any direction with her. Let her go and break china until she's better. meanwhile, the nice conversations you had with her can be had with lots of other women who don't have so many troubles, inner conflicts, maniupulative behaviors and impulse control problems. Please cut her loose (kindly but firmly) and move on.
posted by Miko at 7:49 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:49 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Every single person answering is telling you to end this relationship, plus me. Please run like hell.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 8:08 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 8:08 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Zero drama is the correct amount of drama. Nope right on out, ASAP, and don't feel obliged to give any reasons or explanations at all--that way moar dramaz lies.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:13 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:13 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wow. Voice of opposition here. I will be the one lone voice.
This depends on what your values are. Do you value a rule ("no drama") or a person / human being (her)?
People get a little bit of a rush out of dehumanizing others. It makes them feel powerful, and it can be reassuring to live in a black and white world. I'm seeing a lot of that above.
I don't see that a lot of what this girl does is black and white. She's communicated, she hasn't punched you in the face, she hasn't cheated, and she has been working through some of her issues/baggage with you verbally and communicatively. You like each other in multiple ways.
The one hard line I'd draw, if I were you, is to set a limit on name calling (none of it is tolerable), breaking of dates without enough advance notice ("flaking out"), and perhaps accusations. I'd try to set a few clear boundaries, if I were you, before ending the relationship altogether. I'd certainly not end the relationship "without reasons or explanations." What are you, a robot? What is she, an object? You are both human beings. She doesn't have to be perfect to be treated with kindness, compassion, and love, and neither do you.
posted by omg_parrots at 10:17 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
This depends on what your values are. Do you value a rule ("no drama") or a person / human being (her)?
People get a little bit of a rush out of dehumanizing others. It makes them feel powerful, and it can be reassuring to live in a black and white world. I'm seeing a lot of that above.
I don't see that a lot of what this girl does is black and white. She's communicated, she hasn't punched you in the face, she hasn't cheated, and she has been working through some of her issues/baggage with you verbally and communicatively. You like each other in multiple ways.
The one hard line I'd draw, if I were you, is to set a limit on name calling (none of it is tolerable), breaking of dates without enough advance notice ("flaking out"), and perhaps accusations. I'd try to set a few clear boundaries, if I were you, before ending the relationship altogether. I'd certainly not end the relationship "without reasons or explanations." What are you, a robot? What is she, an object? You are both human beings. She doesn't have to be perfect to be treated with kindness, compassion, and love, and neither do you.
posted by omg_parrots at 10:17 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
1) Way too much drama, dump her
2) Read this book (recommended by MetaFilter) for future reference.
posted by cielgris at 10:45 PM on December 5, 2015
2) Read this book (recommended by MetaFilter) for future reference.
posted by cielgris at 10:45 PM on December 5, 2015
Capri did an excellent job articulating the feeling I was getting from this and your other questions, and I want to add to that voice. You should definitely end this now, but you've got to have a serious think about what you brought to this relationship.
Ostensibly you haven't grown up in a cave. You've been having relationships all your life; with teachers, other adults, family and with other kids/teens/young adults. You know how to get along with people yet time and again you're saying all of this is new to you and you need help.
Dating doesn't have an unusual set of rules that varies wildly from other relationships. You know how to deal with people; there aren't secret handshakes that make dating all that different.
After reading over your other questions (and I'm not trying to catch you out as much as I'm trying to detect a pattern) you come off as a little misogynistic and hyperfocused on sex. I wonder how much of that is coming across to this woman.
Using the term fuckbuddies is pretty dehumanizing. Wondering if a cartoon is unmanly suggests a pretty outdated perception of gender roles. Calling women flaky because they cancel dates is negative gender stereotyping. Saying she has tantrums suggests misogyny.
The way you expressed your sexual relationship is a little bit...I don't know...maybe aggressive? Objectifying? A bit creepy? I thought about it and that she is agreeing to most things I propose to do and then has TWICE later said she felt felt used and humiliated afterwards is very unnerving.
She couldn't say she felt used and humiliated (twice) in the moment because it's different when you're face to face? The more I think about it, this is more a giant red flag for her than you. For whatever reason she doesn't feel safe enough when she's with you to say this.
It's possible (and the fact that she thought you were a womanizer kind of confirms this for me) that you're coming off as more aggressive about sex than you thought. When she's nude and in bed she doesn't feel comfortable enough to put the brakes on.
I wonder if from her perspective you sometimes come off as nice and friendly, but then you get just a bit too aggressive about sex and she's having second thoughts about you and she cancels.
Maybe the way you frame sex makes her wonder if you consider her some type of sex doll you get to play with and not so much an awesome boyfriend who likes her as a person and HEY we also get to bang?
posted by kinetic at 3:44 AM on December 6, 2015 [16 favorites]
Ostensibly you haven't grown up in a cave. You've been having relationships all your life; with teachers, other adults, family and with other kids/teens/young adults. You know how to get along with people yet time and again you're saying all of this is new to you and you need help.
Dating doesn't have an unusual set of rules that varies wildly from other relationships. You know how to deal with people; there aren't secret handshakes that make dating all that different.
After reading over your other questions (and I'm not trying to catch you out as much as I'm trying to detect a pattern) you come off as a little misogynistic and hyperfocused on sex. I wonder how much of that is coming across to this woman.
Using the term fuckbuddies is pretty dehumanizing. Wondering if a cartoon is unmanly suggests a pretty outdated perception of gender roles. Calling women flaky because they cancel dates is negative gender stereotyping. Saying she has tantrums suggests misogyny.
The way you expressed your sexual relationship is a little bit...I don't know...maybe aggressive? Objectifying? A bit creepy? I thought about it and that she is agreeing to most things I propose to do and then has TWICE later said she felt felt used and humiliated afterwards is very unnerving.
She couldn't say she felt used and humiliated (twice) in the moment because it's different when you're face to face? The more I think about it, this is more a giant red flag for her than you. For whatever reason she doesn't feel safe enough when she's with you to say this.
It's possible (and the fact that she thought you were a womanizer kind of confirms this for me) that you're coming off as more aggressive about sex than you thought. When she's nude and in bed she doesn't feel comfortable enough to put the brakes on.
I wonder if from her perspective you sometimes come off as nice and friendly, but then you get just a bit too aggressive about sex and she's having second thoughts about you and she cancels.
Maybe the way you frame sex makes her wonder if you consider her some type of sex doll you get to play with and not so much an awesome boyfriend who likes her as a person and HEY we also get to bang?
posted by kinetic at 3:44 AM on December 6, 2015 [16 favorites]
If you are struggling with being one of a string of people who have hurt this woman, don't take it too much to heart.
There is never a guarantee that a relationship will work out. In fact most romantic relationships fail. Let that wash over you. Until you meet THE ONE, your relationships will end.
When you break up, simply tell her: I've really tried to work on this and I'm not happy in the relationship. I wish you well.
No need to get into reasons or explanations with her. If she accuses you of using her, or of hurting her purposely, simply say, "we gave it our best shot. It didn't work out. Sometimes that happens."
Then go no contact.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:15 AM on December 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is never a guarantee that a relationship will work out. In fact most romantic relationships fail. Let that wash over you. Until you meet THE ONE, your relationships will end.
When you break up, simply tell her: I've really tried to work on this and I'm not happy in the relationship. I wish you well.
No need to get into reasons or explanations with her. If she accuses you of using her, or of hurting her purposely, simply say, "we gave it our best shot. It didn't work out. Sometimes that happens."
Then go no contact.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:15 AM on December 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
i have a feeling that if she's already doing this much crap already, it's likely to just escalate because you seem to be taking it. DTMFA and don't give in an inch. No post breakup closure coffees and listening to im-sorry-i'll-change-talks. Move on. there's nothing wrong with looking for the right person. She is not it.
posted by speakeasy at 10:44 AM on December 6, 2015
posted by speakeasy at 10:44 AM on December 6, 2015
Here's my third answer on your questions about this same relationship; it's got the same essential message. If you aren't happy, move on. You're just torturing yourself the more you carry on with this, and I bet it's no fun for her either.
posted by hollyholly at 12:19 PM on December 6, 2015
posted by hollyholly at 12:19 PM on December 6, 2015
My comment above is not intended to blame you or anything like that. It is intended to say that large parts of this relationship can readily be compared to other relationship experiences. Other than the sex per se, a sexual relationship is worked out much like any other relationship.
Second, I was one helluva hot mess in my youth. I don't think I have ever justified mistreating a man based on "you remind me of X person who hurt me." I was difficult as hell to deal with, but I really don't think I ever did that.
You kind of have two options here: Stay and go down the rabbithole with this relationship and hope the experience makes you both better people, or leave and try to start out on a better foot with a new person.
Even with having been raped as a child, I have learned it is not "all me." Some men react really badly to that news and some do not. Some men make me feel like damaged goods and like someone who will never be good enough and some men do not. Working on me has changed me for the better, but sometimes just trading in one man for another got more bang for the buck.
One of the problems with this relationship is how you are framing it. You asked "how much drama". In other words, you already see this in negative terms and you already feel it is largely her fault. I could argue it either way. I could lambast her or you or both. Or neither.
If you want to stay with her, you need to find more neutral framing than this. You need to view it as communication problems instead of drama. If you want to stay, any future questions need to be framed with less drama. Set a goal -- like better communication, fewer cancellations -- and ask how to achieve that.
Asking strangers on the internet to judge your relationship is practically asking for drama. Crowdsourcing alternative points of view or smaller solutions can be wonderful. But my rule is that if I am romantically involved with someone "It's nobody's business but me and my baby." It is up to me to decide I want to stay and try to make it work or I have had enough of his crap and I want out. I don't let anybody tell me whether to stay or go, though I do sometimes say "Help! I want out and can't figure out how to make it stick!"
We only know what crumbs you have chosen to share. None of us is really in a good position to judge her or the relationship. Three months cannot be effectively conveyed in a few paragraphs.
I am older and wiser than when I got married at age 19. I am better at sidestepping the logic traps other people bring to a relationship. I am more aware that I have more options than going along with their suggestion or just dumping them. I am more equipped to say "I like 90% of this, but this 10% right here is a big problem. Can we talk about this?"
I got there by the school of hard knocks. Some things get better with experience. There is no way to get better at the relationship thing without getting experience at it. But if you honestly think it is mostly her, there is a way to test that: Walk away and find someone else. If three or four partners down the road, it is clearly a case of "New face, same old crapola" that's a good time to take a long hard look at the man in the mirror. Because wherever you go, there you are.
None of us knows how much of this is her and how much is you. Whether you stay or go, it is possible to choose to largely disengage from the drama. It is also a healthier goal to set than looking for who is to blame.
posted by Michele in California at 1:14 PM on December 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Second, I was one helluva hot mess in my youth. I don't think I have ever justified mistreating a man based on "you remind me of X person who hurt me." I was difficult as hell to deal with, but I really don't think I ever did that.
You kind of have two options here: Stay and go down the rabbithole with this relationship and hope the experience makes you both better people, or leave and try to start out on a better foot with a new person.
Even with having been raped as a child, I have learned it is not "all me." Some men react really badly to that news and some do not. Some men make me feel like damaged goods and like someone who will never be good enough and some men do not. Working on me has changed me for the better, but sometimes just trading in one man for another got more bang for the buck.
One of the problems with this relationship is how you are framing it. You asked "how much drama". In other words, you already see this in negative terms and you already feel it is largely her fault. I could argue it either way. I could lambast her or you or both. Or neither.
If you want to stay with her, you need to find more neutral framing than this. You need to view it as communication problems instead of drama. If you want to stay, any future questions need to be framed with less drama. Set a goal -- like better communication, fewer cancellations -- and ask how to achieve that.
Asking strangers on the internet to judge your relationship is practically asking for drama. Crowdsourcing alternative points of view or smaller solutions can be wonderful. But my rule is that if I am romantically involved with someone "It's nobody's business but me and my baby." It is up to me to decide I want to stay and try to make it work or I have had enough of his crap and I want out. I don't let anybody tell me whether to stay or go, though I do sometimes say "Help! I want out and can't figure out how to make it stick!"
We only know what crumbs you have chosen to share. None of us is really in a good position to judge her or the relationship. Three months cannot be effectively conveyed in a few paragraphs.
I am older and wiser than when I got married at age 19. I am better at sidestepping the logic traps other people bring to a relationship. I am more aware that I have more options than going along with their suggestion or just dumping them. I am more equipped to say "I like 90% of this, but this 10% right here is a big problem. Can we talk about this?"
I got there by the school of hard knocks. Some things get better with experience. There is no way to get better at the relationship thing without getting experience at it. But if you honestly think it is mostly her, there is a way to test that: Walk away and find someone else. If three or four partners down the road, it is clearly a case of "New face, same old crapola" that's a good time to take a long hard look at the man in the mirror. Because wherever you go, there you are.
None of us knows how much of this is her and how much is you. Whether you stay or go, it is possible to choose to largely disengage from the drama. It is also a healthier goal to set than looking for who is to blame.
posted by Michele in California at 1:14 PM on December 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Every relationship question you've had has come from a place where you're asking the community if something will be OK. There really aren't any solid yes/no answers in this regard. If everything is new, everything is a little uncomfortable.
Maybe you were fine with a casual sex thing because you lacked some experience and didn't know if that's what you wanted so you went along with it. You felt like picking the wrong movie or disclosing personal health things was in some way tipping your hand. You feel like she has more friends and hey, it's ok if she goes out with them because that's what you do when you have more friends. In seclusion these might be ok, but all together it sounds like you're lacking the self-confidence to decide what you want, which is what you deserve.
If you haven't had many (or any) relationships, it takes some time to figure out what is acceptable to you, let alone in the course of a relationship. You know now you want some respect, some communication, and the ability to be honest face-to-face.
You're not getting that. Regardless of how small you perceive your social group to be, you've ventured out there this time. You'll find something better.
posted by mikeh at 7:59 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Maybe you were fine with a casual sex thing because you lacked some experience and didn't know if that's what you wanted so you went along with it. You felt like picking the wrong movie or disclosing personal health things was in some way tipping your hand. You feel like she has more friends and hey, it's ok if she goes out with them because that's what you do when you have more friends. In seclusion these might be ok, but all together it sounds like you're lacking the self-confidence to decide what you want, which is what you deserve.
If you haven't had many (or any) relationships, it takes some time to figure out what is acceptable to you, let alone in the course of a relationship. You know now you want some respect, some communication, and the ability to be honest face-to-face.
You're not getting that. Regardless of how small you perceive your social group to be, you've ventured out there this time. You'll find something better.
posted by mikeh at 7:59 AM on December 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Contrary to a lot of the advice in this thread, I don't think she is crazy or causing "drama".
You settled for less than you wanted, and she is actively taking advantage of it. I think she's not very into you and doesn't want to get too invested (or for you to, either).
It also sounds like she has issues with casual sex in terms of feeling undervalued. She probably likes the attention and sex when you're around but bails because she doesn't care that much about you, specifically.
Start again and find someone who is on the same page as you, relationship-wise. And take gendered language about women like "drama" "flakiness" and "crazy" out of your vocabulary if you're able to.
posted by SassHat at 9:16 AM on December 7, 2015
You settled for less than you wanted, and she is actively taking advantage of it. I think she's not very into you and doesn't want to get too invested (or for you to, either).
It also sounds like she has issues with casual sex in terms of feeling undervalued. She probably likes the attention and sex when you're around but bails because she doesn't care that much about you, specifically.
Start again and find someone who is on the same page as you, relationship-wise. And take gendered language about women like "drama" "flakiness" and "crazy" out of your vocabulary if you're able to.
posted by SassHat at 9:16 AM on December 7, 2015
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Yes, it's common for relationships to have some conflict. They usually reveal themselves down the road, however, at least in my experience. Your GF is doing a lot of come-closer, now-go-away behavior that I would quickly lose patience with.
There's no harm in looking around for someone more easy-going and fun, which is what a date is supposed to be, after all. Why not surprise her and say "I need to step away for a bit, while you get your flakiness under control." If she doesn't, not much harm done, and you won't be tied up in an exclusive relationship when Miss Congeniality comes along.
posted by BostonTerrier at 9:21 AM on December 5, 2015 [9 favorites]