How to Deal With My Mother (Not Just Holiday Edition)
December 2, 2015 9:16 AM Subscribe
I've always had a strange relationship with my mother and the holiday season obviously makes it harder. I live overseas and today I learned my cousin died two days ago .. via my mother putting up an In Memoriam video on FB. It's the latest blow in a long series of disappointments. I'd appreciate advice on how to deal with a mother who both pulls me in and keep pushing me away. Details inside.
My mother was very young when she had me and I grew up at my Auntie Jen's. Apart from having me as a young kid, my mother has always been successful: a good job, a long marriage with my step-dad who runs a successful company, a beautiful house, and expensive cars. But I remain her only child (her one big failure, I think) and we've always had a really fraught relationship.
Up until I left for college, I only saw her occasionally (usually birthdays and Christmas). When I left for college, she finally decided she wanted to be my mother. I had moved to the other part of the country and felt super-award about trying to establish a mother-daughter relationship with someone who had mainly scolded me as a kid (really, my abiding childhood memory of her is her telling me not to touch things). During college I made some amazing friends whose interaction with their parents made me realise that not every family is about scolding, oneupmanship or jealousy. It was a real eye-opener and I went into therapy to deal with my family background.
Nowadays I live overseas and I still try to keep in touch with my family, but it's hard. I try to give good presents to both my mother & my Auntie Jen, but I don't have the kind of money that my mother does. I'm constantly reminded of this by her. She googles everything I buy her (and it better be more expensive than Auntie Jen's) and I am constantly told that what she buys me is far more expensive. She calls me money-obsessed because I try to pay off my college debt and I am frugal ("the money obsession" started when she realised Auntie Jen helped me out financially to get through college - for which I am super-grateful and never asked for). Occasionally my mother'll send me emails like "omg, guess who won the lottery?!" and when I reply "hey, is it uncle Jim? he'll spend it all on fast ladies!" it's a bait-and-switch because I'm apparently money-obsessed and only want to talk to her when it's regarding money (wtf?). I feel naive because I'm just replying to an email and there is an ulterior motive?!
Every time I talk to my mother, she criticises me for being a bad daughter, for not caring about her, and she comes down hard on all my lifestyle choices (I've struggled to get a good career going thanks to .. well, it's a generational thing, isn't it? I'll never own my own house and I'm still paying off debt. I also don't have any kids but in the same breath I'm told she's too young to be a grandmother). It is really, really, really hard trying to placate her and keep her happy. Recently one of my cousins came to my new country for a work thing and we managed to actually meet up (yay!) - but we decided to keep it quiet because my mother is currently feuding with his sister. My family is messed up.
And then two days ago another cousin died. He had been ill for a long time, but I only find out passing his passing on FB where my mother put up a big In Memoriam photo collage. It was really upsetting to find out like that. I normally talk with Auntie Jen once a week and we run through the family news, but we haven't talked yet this week.
How can I keep this going? I'm guessing I'm trying to keep waters smooth because I do actually care about my mother and I desperately want to have some sort of family. So, I'm looking for advice on how to keep things smooth & easy from halfway across the world, and not break down into tears every time I have to deal with my mother.
Reading this back, I feel like I'm painting her in a really bad light. She is smart, warm, and funny. I just feel like I'm walking around on egg shells half a world away.
My mother was very young when she had me and I grew up at my Auntie Jen's. Apart from having me as a young kid, my mother has always been successful: a good job, a long marriage with my step-dad who runs a successful company, a beautiful house, and expensive cars. But I remain her only child (her one big failure, I think) and we've always had a really fraught relationship.
Up until I left for college, I only saw her occasionally (usually birthdays and Christmas). When I left for college, she finally decided she wanted to be my mother. I had moved to the other part of the country and felt super-award about trying to establish a mother-daughter relationship with someone who had mainly scolded me as a kid (really, my abiding childhood memory of her is her telling me not to touch things). During college I made some amazing friends whose interaction with their parents made me realise that not every family is about scolding, oneupmanship or jealousy. It was a real eye-opener and I went into therapy to deal with my family background.
Nowadays I live overseas and I still try to keep in touch with my family, but it's hard. I try to give good presents to both my mother & my Auntie Jen, but I don't have the kind of money that my mother does. I'm constantly reminded of this by her. She googles everything I buy her (and it better be more expensive than Auntie Jen's) and I am constantly told that what she buys me is far more expensive. She calls me money-obsessed because I try to pay off my college debt and I am frugal ("the money obsession" started when she realised Auntie Jen helped me out financially to get through college - for which I am super-grateful and never asked for). Occasionally my mother'll send me emails like "omg, guess who won the lottery?!" and when I reply "hey, is it uncle Jim? he'll spend it all on fast ladies!" it's a bait-and-switch because I'm apparently money-obsessed and only want to talk to her when it's regarding money (wtf?). I feel naive because I'm just replying to an email and there is an ulterior motive?!
Every time I talk to my mother, she criticises me for being a bad daughter, for not caring about her, and she comes down hard on all my lifestyle choices (I've struggled to get a good career going thanks to .. well, it's a generational thing, isn't it? I'll never own my own house and I'm still paying off debt. I also don't have any kids but in the same breath I'm told she's too young to be a grandmother). It is really, really, really hard trying to placate her and keep her happy. Recently one of my cousins came to my new country for a work thing and we managed to actually meet up (yay!) - but we decided to keep it quiet because my mother is currently feuding with his sister. My family is messed up.
And then two days ago another cousin died. He had been ill for a long time, but I only find out passing his passing on FB where my mother put up a big In Memoriam photo collage. It was really upsetting to find out like that. I normally talk with Auntie Jen once a week and we run through the family news, but we haven't talked yet this week.
How can I keep this going? I'm guessing I'm trying to keep waters smooth because I do actually care about my mother and I desperately want to have some sort of family. So, I'm looking for advice on how to keep things smooth & easy from halfway across the world, and not break down into tears every time I have to deal with my mother.
Reading this back, I feel like I'm painting her in a really bad light. She is smart, warm, and funny. I just feel like I'm walking around on egg shells half a world away.
Don't read your mom on the web. Keep in touch with Auntie Jen by phone irl. Unfollow mom, digital relations are BS as a substitute for family. Tell her you love to hear from her personally with regard to personal matters. Narcissism is hard to deal with, when you need tenderness. You are treated like a secret for most of your life, then now there is some other performance she needs from you. You do not have to explain what you do and do not look at on the web. Be mystified when she brings you news. Be a comfort to Auntie Jen. And, Happy Holidays!
posted by Oyéah at 9:37 AM on December 2, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 9:37 AM on December 2, 2015 [15 favorites]
My relationship with my mom is pretty much nothing like yours but for a variety of reasons I don't discuss money with her because it keeps me sane (I do worry that she could be better managing her assets in her retirement but it's better for me to keep those worries internal).
I guess the lesson here for me is to enjoy the parts of the relationship you want to and ignore the rest. Don't take the bait of responding to the lines about who has won the lotto (or any money related messages) and Id be seriously disinclined to continue giving gofts to someone as ungracious as you have made her sound - but at a minimum Id only be buying handmade/one-off or otherwise ungoogleable things.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:41 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I guess the lesson here for me is to enjoy the parts of the relationship you want to and ignore the rest. Don't take the bait of responding to the lines about who has won the lotto (or any money related messages) and Id be seriously disinclined to continue giving gofts to someone as ungracious as you have made her sound - but at a minimum Id only be buying handmade/one-off or otherwise ungoogleable things.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:41 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
You know, I see a lot of my own mother's behaviors in what you're describing. Especially around the "finding out important stuff on facebook" and "insanity over gifts" fronts. It drives me crazy, and I have found the only thing to do is dramatically lower my expectations of my interactions with her, and to stop trying to win her over, because there is nothing I can do about it (last year I gave her a nice and somewhat expensive gift... she said I had spent too much and gave me a gift card for what she thought was the difference between the price of her gift to me and my gift to her, WHO DOES THAT?).
And here's the thing: I at least had a pretty decent childhood with my mother, which it sounds like you didn't get from yours.
So, my advice is GIVE UP. Recognize that nothing will ever be "good enough" because the goalposts keep moving, and people who want to be miserable are going to find ways to be miserable. You don't have to cut your mother off if you don't want to, but you will be happier if you stop trying to win her approval and dramatically reduce your expectations of her.
posted by mskyle at 9:42 AM on December 2, 2015 [24 favorites]
And here's the thing: I at least had a pretty decent childhood with my mother, which it sounds like you didn't get from yours.
So, my advice is GIVE UP. Recognize that nothing will ever be "good enough" because the goalposts keep moving, and people who want to be miserable are going to find ways to be miserable. You don't have to cut your mother off if you don't want to, but you will be happier if you stop trying to win her approval and dramatically reduce your expectations of her.
posted by mskyle at 9:42 AM on December 2, 2015 [24 favorites]
You have to re-frame your relationship with your biological mom. Your Auntie Jen is your mother, not the lady who gave birth to you.
You already realize that your mother is messed up in a significant way, and no matter what you do to please her, it's not going to happen. She will always be who she is. The only thing you can do is to change how you react.
Don't buy into her definition of success. Don't buy into her arguments. Instead just state facts.
Her: You don't love me, you're a bad daughter
You: I do love you and I'm hanging up now because I don't want to get pulled into a no-win discussion. (then hang up.)
Her: You only talk to me about money.
You: That's not true, I'm going to hang up because I don't want to get pulled into a no-win discussion.
You find out that a family-member died via Facebook.
To your mom: I'm really disappointed that you didn't call me to let me know that Joe passed.
To your Auntie Jen: I'm really sad that I found out about cousin Joe's passing via Mom's Facebook.
Your mom may never be the nurturing, caring and loving person you want her to be. Luckily, you have Auntie Jen who may fill some of that role. Additionally, if you come from a dysfunctional family you're allowed to gather friends around you who stand in as your family. I can't tell you how many people in my life see me as a bit of a surrogate mom. At Candlemas I'm often asked to perform the Mother role, even though I'm more of a Crone at this point in my life.
View your Mom as the distant family member that she is. You're related to her biologically, she didn't really mother you in a traditional sense, and while you have a bit of a family obligation, you don't owe her the traditional daughter she seems to think you ought to be.
You get to decide who is your family, but you can't make your family 'act right.'
Step back this year at the holidays, and start doing exactly what you want to do, with exactly the people it's worth doing it with.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:55 AM on December 2, 2015 [30 favorites]
You already realize that your mother is messed up in a significant way, and no matter what you do to please her, it's not going to happen. She will always be who she is. The only thing you can do is to change how you react.
Don't buy into her definition of success. Don't buy into her arguments. Instead just state facts.
Her: You don't love me, you're a bad daughter
You: I do love you and I'm hanging up now because I don't want to get pulled into a no-win discussion. (then hang up.)
Her: You only talk to me about money.
You: That's not true, I'm going to hang up because I don't want to get pulled into a no-win discussion.
You find out that a family-member died via Facebook.
To your mom: I'm really disappointed that you didn't call me to let me know that Joe passed.
To your Auntie Jen: I'm really sad that I found out about cousin Joe's passing via Mom's Facebook.
Your mom may never be the nurturing, caring and loving person you want her to be. Luckily, you have Auntie Jen who may fill some of that role. Additionally, if you come from a dysfunctional family you're allowed to gather friends around you who stand in as your family. I can't tell you how many people in my life see me as a bit of a surrogate mom. At Candlemas I'm often asked to perform the Mother role, even though I'm more of a Crone at this point in my life.
View your Mom as the distant family member that she is. You're related to her biologically, she didn't really mother you in a traditional sense, and while you have a bit of a family obligation, you don't owe her the traditional daughter she seems to think you ought to be.
You get to decide who is your family, but you can't make your family 'act right.'
Step back this year at the holidays, and start doing exactly what you want to do, with exactly the people it's worth doing it with.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:55 AM on December 2, 2015 [30 favorites]
Yes, your Aunt Jen is your mother. An awesome one at that.
Your biological mother gave 9 months and DNA, and as soon as you became an adult is when she decided she wanted to be more of a presence? And this hinges on you making her happy? Well how convenient for her.
Nah. Life doesn't work that way. Even friendships don't work that way.
Does your Aunt Jen even know about the cousin dying, or is she being kept out of the loop too? It seems pretty strange that she wouldn't have called you right away. (I'm saying this for her, not against her btw. I am oh so very familiar with effed-up family dynamics.)
If you want to keep in touch with your mother, nthing lower your expectations. She never mothered you, so she has no claim on anything you might "owe" her. And even if she did mother you... well, does your Aunt Jen make you feel any obligation? It doesn't sound like it. That's unconditional love. It's a treasure. Give your Aunt Jen a hug from this internet stranger.
You have every right to tell your mother you don't want to talk about certain things, for instance money. My parents did this with me too, and you know what it turned into once I started earning money? They asked me for money! Because I "owed" them! For what? Housing and feeding me as a child. Which is a stretch given my room wasn't heated (they designed and built our house, my bedroom being the only one without heat) and we rarely had enough to eat. Unlike your Aunt Jen, they contributed precisely zero to my education funds, while claiming me as a dependent and getting tax breaks.
Yeah, that's nonsense. If love is capitalistic then we're all fucked. On a personal scale – you don't "owe" her. People who genuinely love you will never make you feel that way (see: Aunt Jen). You are free do to as you wish with your biological mother.
posted by fraula at 10:08 AM on December 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
Your biological mother gave 9 months and DNA, and as soon as you became an adult is when she decided she wanted to be more of a presence? And this hinges on you making her happy? Well how convenient for her.
Nah. Life doesn't work that way. Even friendships don't work that way.
Does your Aunt Jen even know about the cousin dying, or is she being kept out of the loop too? It seems pretty strange that she wouldn't have called you right away. (I'm saying this for her, not against her btw. I am oh so very familiar with effed-up family dynamics.)
If you want to keep in touch with your mother, nthing lower your expectations. She never mothered you, so she has no claim on anything you might "owe" her. And even if she did mother you... well, does your Aunt Jen make you feel any obligation? It doesn't sound like it. That's unconditional love. It's a treasure. Give your Aunt Jen a hug from this internet stranger.
You have every right to tell your mother you don't want to talk about certain things, for instance money. My parents did this with me too, and you know what it turned into once I started earning money? They asked me for money! Because I "owed" them! For what? Housing and feeding me as a child. Which is a stretch given my room wasn't heated (they designed and built our house, my bedroom being the only one without heat) and we rarely had enough to eat. Unlike your Aunt Jen, they contributed precisely zero to my education funds, while claiming me as a dependent and getting tax breaks.
Yeah, that's nonsense. If love is capitalistic then we're all fucked. On a personal scale – you don't "owe" her. People who genuinely love you will never make you feel that way (see: Aunt Jen). You are free do to as you wish with your biological mother.
posted by fraula at 10:08 AM on December 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
You've looked up narcissism and parents, right? 'Cause that's where I'd tell you to start if you have not already done so. I feel like there is so much to unpack and learn about once you figure out that you have a narcissist for a parent, so I don't wanna bombard you. But I'd start with a Google search if I were you or maybe check out this thread on Reddit.
posted by pinetree at 10:15 AM on December 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by pinetree at 10:15 AM on December 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
You have a mom (Auntie Jen) and you have an egg donor with major psych issues.
You should send presents (as possible) to the former, and completely cut ties with the latter.
She doesn't accept your gifts as gifts (edit: someone upthread used the word "ungracious"...perfect!) and compares them to what she gave you? Fuck her.
posted by notsnot at 10:18 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
You should send presents (as possible) to the former, and completely cut ties with the latter.
She doesn't accept your gifts as gifts (edit: someone upthread used the word "ungracious"...perfect!) and compares them to what she gave you? Fuck her.
posted by notsnot at 10:18 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
When I became an adult I had to train my mother to treat me like one. I discussed nothing of importance with her. I gave vague answers to her questions and switched the subject. When she crossed the line my go to response was - gotta go, and hung up the phone. My point is you do not have to tell her anything about your life.
You seem to think you owe her something because of the label she wears. You don't. You know you will fail, so just fail. Send her a cheesy gift card and send the woman who raised you whatever the hell you want. She whines and complains - oops, gotta go.
It is ok to train her to treat you with respect. Just keep it vague and keep it short. Once you get over feeling like a guilty awful ungrateful child you will feel so set free.
posted by cairnoflore at 10:22 AM on December 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
You seem to think you owe her something because of the label she wears. You don't. You know you will fail, so just fail. Send her a cheesy gift card and send the woman who raised you whatever the hell you want. She whines and complains - oops, gotta go.
It is ok to train her to treat you with respect. Just keep it vague and keep it short. Once you get over feeling like a guilty awful ungrateful child you will feel so set free.
posted by cairnoflore at 10:22 AM on December 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
How can I keep this going? I'm guessing I'm trying to keep waters smooth because I do actually care about my mother and I desperately want to have some sort of family. So, I'm looking for advice on how to keep things smooth & easy from halfway across the world, and not break down into tears every time I have to deal with my mother.
I'm really, really sorry but what you want cannot happen. Because what you want isn't a relationship with this shitty faux mother; you want a different mother. This woman isn't going to change. This is not a situation where if you just behave correctly, you'll magically get the response you desire. She's going to keep being an asshole because that's who she is.
I am not a psychologist (or even an armchair one) but for what it is worth, a lot of your post reminded me of children who have post-adoption or foster system struggles that carry into adulthood, which is something I know a little bit about. I don't know what country you're in but this is something I would seek specialised therapy for. If that is not an option, feel free to send me a memail and I can dig up some literature and/or support groups for you.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:24 AM on December 2, 2015 [21 favorites]
I'm really, really sorry but what you want cannot happen. Because what you want isn't a relationship with this shitty faux mother; you want a different mother. This woman isn't going to change. This is not a situation where if you just behave correctly, you'll magically get the response you desire. She's going to keep being an asshole because that's who she is.
I am not a psychologist (or even an armchair one) but for what it is worth, a lot of your post reminded me of children who have post-adoption or foster system struggles that carry into adulthood, which is something I know a little bit about. I don't know what country you're in but this is something I would seek specialised therapy for. If that is not an option, feel free to send me a memail and I can dig up some literature and/or support groups for you.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:24 AM on December 2, 2015 [21 favorites]
My mom does some of this and it will never change, I don't think.
1) posts obit for my Great Aunt on FB, doesn't tell me that she passed
2) doesn't call me when Grandma goes in the hospital - when pressed, "We didn't want you to worry." Meantime Grandma (who I am very close to) sat in the hospital for 5 days wondering why I wasn't calling.
3) Tell her I had this or that medical test done via text message and that I am waiting for the results. Flat out doesn't respond.
I don't know how to fix it. I tell her to call me if Grandma goes in the hospital (now I live locally, so it is hopefully easier to learn of these things) but I don't think she will.
I love my mom a lot and I am trying to just laugh it off as "She's weird" because it's not going to change. I agree with the posters above who suggest that you focus on the relationship with your Aunt instead and re-frame your expectations for the one with your Mom. (I'm sorry)
(Ruthless Bunny is right: "Step back this year at the holidays, and start doing exactly what you want to do, with exactly the people it's worth doing it with.")
posted by getawaysticks at 10:52 AM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
1) posts obit for my Great Aunt on FB, doesn't tell me that she passed
2) doesn't call me when Grandma goes in the hospital - when pressed, "We didn't want you to worry." Meantime Grandma (who I am very close to) sat in the hospital for 5 days wondering why I wasn't calling.
3) Tell her I had this or that medical test done via text message and that I am waiting for the results. Flat out doesn't respond.
I don't know how to fix it. I tell her to call me if Grandma goes in the hospital (now I live locally, so it is hopefully easier to learn of these things) but I don't think she will.
I love my mom a lot and I am trying to just laugh it off as "She's weird" because it's not going to change. I agree with the posters above who suggest that you focus on the relationship with your Aunt instead and re-frame your expectations for the one with your Mom. (I'm sorry)
(Ruthless Bunny is right: "Step back this year at the holidays, and start doing exactly what you want to do, with exactly the people it's worth doing it with.")
posted by getawaysticks at 10:52 AM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry to hear that you're going through such a struggle right now, and also for the loss of your cousin. You sound like you're a good person, and I'm bummed to read that your relationship with your parent has been so darn stinky. Remember, how your biological mom feels and how she reacts to things is not under your control. You're only in control of how you feel and how you think.
Three words that might help you reframe these interactions: Narcissism, boundaries, and codependency. Two books that discuss strategies about dealing with interpersonal relationships with problem people like your biological mom: Stop Walking on Eggshells, Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist. And pinetree's suggestion of /r/raisedbynarcissists/ is a sound one.
You're not a bad person for feeling the way that you do. How your mother behaves is not likely to change, which is unfortunate. You're justified in standing up for yourself and what you believe in. Best luck.
posted by enfa at 10:56 AM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Three words that might help you reframe these interactions: Narcissism, boundaries, and codependency. Two books that discuss strategies about dealing with interpersonal relationships with problem people like your biological mom: Stop Walking on Eggshells, Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist. And pinetree's suggestion of /r/raisedbynarcissists/ is a sound one.
You're not a bad person for feeling the way that you do. How your mother behaves is not likely to change, which is unfortunate. You're justified in standing up for yourself and what you believe in. Best luck.
posted by enfa at 10:56 AM on December 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
So painful; you haven't done anything to deserve being treated like this. I hope you'll repeat that thought: The way your mother treats you is not a reflection on you, and there's nothing that you've done, or haven't done, that merits this kind of behavior. I am glad that you know that not all families are like this--which is liberating on one hand and profoundly grief-making on the other.
If you accepted that you will never have the kind of authentic mother-daughter relationship that is possible for others, what would that look like? Would it free you to enjoy and love your connection to Auntie Jen without reference to your mother? Could you have neutral phone conversations with your mother that don't end in tears and lingering anxiety? If you interpreted her digital actions as a manipulative tool, could you free yourself from letting her wield it at you? If you refused to be a prop in her production of a mother-daughter relationship, would it give you more mental space and emotional peace? What if you could think of her as someone else's mother--and be civil, but not invested? Would things be different for you then?
Because what you've described here is not just a no-win situation, but a never-win, never-tie, and never-feel-safe kind of deal, and the one thing you can do to change that is to let go of hope for an authentic, whole-hearted connection. That means boundaries ("That's not up for discussion, Mom. We can talk about [positive thing] instead.") And adjusting your expectations. And making her feelings hers, not yours, with phrases like "I'm sorry you feel that way" and "Huh." That means filling your need for family and connection in other ways. And those connections will remind you that you are loved, and valued, and enough. You are so much more than your status as a daughter.
This is very, very hard stuff. There's life on the other side of this pain. Go and live.
posted by MonkeyToes at 11:16 AM on December 2, 2015
If you accepted that you will never have the kind of authentic mother-daughter relationship that is possible for others, what would that look like? Would it free you to enjoy and love your connection to Auntie Jen without reference to your mother? Could you have neutral phone conversations with your mother that don't end in tears and lingering anxiety? If you interpreted her digital actions as a manipulative tool, could you free yourself from letting her wield it at you? If you refused to be a prop in her production of a mother-daughter relationship, would it give you more mental space and emotional peace? What if you could think of her as someone else's mother--and be civil, but not invested? Would things be different for you then?
Because what you've described here is not just a no-win situation, but a never-win, never-tie, and never-feel-safe kind of deal, and the one thing you can do to change that is to let go of hope for an authentic, whole-hearted connection. That means boundaries ("That's not up for discussion, Mom. We can talk about [positive thing] instead.") And adjusting your expectations. And making her feelings hers, not yours, with phrases like "I'm sorry you feel that way" and "Huh." That means filling your need for family and connection in other ways. And those connections will remind you that you are loved, and valued, and enough. You are so much more than your status as a daughter.
This is very, very hard stuff. There's life on the other side of this pain. Go and live.
posted by MonkeyToes at 11:16 AM on December 2, 2015
Seconding Raised By Narcissists on Reddit.
The best thing you can do is detach emotionally from caring about your bio-mom's opinion of you. My father is kind of like this -- like a much-older sibling rather than a Dad, due to his emotional unavailability. Like your bio-mom, he has ideas of how I "should" be that are vastly different than how I actually am. I recently accepted that he wasn't going to change. It was a load off my mind. He's of a different generation, a generation that had easy employment, pensions, and prosperity. I am not successful in his eyes. However, I am successful in mine, in ways he can never understand.
I have been frustrated over years in my attempts to make my father see the real me, and love me unconditionally. You can't get blood from a stone, as the old saying goes. And trying just got me more emotional coldness and judgement. I would say you'd be safer not to try and instead take the approach MonkeyToes suggests.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 11:31 AM on December 2, 2015
The best thing you can do is detach emotionally from caring about your bio-mom's opinion of you. My father is kind of like this -- like a much-older sibling rather than a Dad, due to his emotional unavailability. Like your bio-mom, he has ideas of how I "should" be that are vastly different than how I actually am. I recently accepted that he wasn't going to change. It was a load off my mind. He's of a different generation, a generation that had easy employment, pensions, and prosperity. I am not successful in his eyes. However, I am successful in mine, in ways he can never understand.
I have been frustrated over years in my attempts to make my father see the real me, and love me unconditionally. You can't get blood from a stone, as the old saying goes. And trying just got me more emotional coldness and judgement. I would say you'd be safer not to try and instead take the approach MonkeyToes suggests.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 11:31 AM on December 2, 2015
Your mom sounds like a narcissist.
Learn a bit more about that and you'll discover that none of this is your fault, that she has serious psychological issues that have nothing to do with you.
Then you can decide how you want to deal with your relationship with her.
posted by 3491again at 12:20 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Learn a bit more about that and you'll discover that none of this is your fault, that she has serious psychological issues that have nothing to do with you.
Then you can decide how you want to deal with your relationship with her.
posted by 3491again at 12:20 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
What will work is setting boundaries for yourself, telling your mother about them, and then following through. Not that you're not setting rules for your mother, though it will seem like that to her. You set a limit for yourself, such as, "When she makes a negative comment about me, I will end the conversation." "Before giving even one more gift, I will tell her that complaints about the last gift made me feel bad, I might need (or do need) to opt out of gift-giving (and receiving)." If you want to try to make the gift thing work, still tell her that the complaints make you feel bad and that if it happens again, you will no longer exchange gifts with her.
Putting her on notice will be hard. She'll probably raise lots of objections, tell you you're rigid, say you're trying to keep her from speaking her mind, and so on. Stay calm, keep your voice even, and repeat your message once. Don't discuss it with her.
Then following through will be hard if she goes ahead and does the things you've told her are hurtful. You need to say, "The criticism is making me feel bad, so I'm going to hang up. Good-bye." She'll say you refused to talk to her, maybe even that you hung up on her. Try to tolerate it; it will get easier.
A therapist can be really helpful while you're deciding what the boundaries should be and in the beginning, when you state them and get used to enforcing them. It's a standard self-preservation method that all therapists are aware of.
A couple of books have helped me and my husband deal with his mother. One is Stop Walking On Eggshells and the other is I Hate You, Don't Leave Me. The have to do with family members who have borderline personality disorder, but the advice works with any family member who doesn't respect your feelings and wishes.
posted by wryly at 1:34 PM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Putting her on notice will be hard. She'll probably raise lots of objections, tell you you're rigid, say you're trying to keep her from speaking her mind, and so on. Stay calm, keep your voice even, and repeat your message once. Don't discuss it with her.
Then following through will be hard if she goes ahead and does the things you've told her are hurtful. You need to say, "The criticism is making me feel bad, so I'm going to hang up. Good-bye." She'll say you refused to talk to her, maybe even that you hung up on her. Try to tolerate it; it will get easier.
A therapist can be really helpful while you're deciding what the boundaries should be and in the beginning, when you state them and get used to enforcing them. It's a standard self-preservation method that all therapists are aware of.
A couple of books have helped me and my husband deal with his mother. One is Stop Walking On Eggshells and the other is I Hate You, Don't Leave Me. The have to do with family members who have borderline personality disorder, but the advice works with any family member who doesn't respect your feelings and wishes.
posted by wryly at 1:34 PM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
You have permission from this internet stranger to no longer have a relationship with her, or have a very basic relationship and end conversations when they turn.
To try to tell a long story in a short way...
I haven't spoken to my "mother" since I was 17. It's nearly 9 years now. But she was never a mother to me. My dad played both roles even though we all live together until I was 15. I've never had a mom figure growing up. As an adult I don't need one but I'm thankful to have an awesome step-mom and mother-in-law that I can talk to about anything. But they didn't come into my life until I was an adult and I didn't need a "mommy" anymore. They're my family and they're mother figures and amazing, caring, loving ladies but they don't fulfil some motherly role and warm and fuzzies that were missing from my childhood, because I'm my own person. They give me warm fuzzies and their own way.
The thing is, you got a mother figure - your aunt, and that's awesome! Be grateful for that, really! Imagine if you had a sibling and they dropped their kid your lap. Your aunt raised you to be a thoughtful, kind, person and helped you through college!
Here's the thing, you won't be able to get those warm and fuzzies with your biological mom. It just won't happen. But you have an awesome mom figure, and down the line you may have a partner's family or other awesome women or parent figures in your life. You have to learn to make your own path and figure out what you want, but unfortunately you can't go back in time and you can't make people do what you want them to do.
So, figure out what you get out of this relationship with your biological mother, if anything, and really see if it's worth the effort. Actually determine what you get out of it now and what you got out of it in the past, NOT what you hope to get out of it. NOT what you could get out of it "if only I did X" or "if only she did Y" because it won't change.
Then, celebrate the other awesome people in your life who have been there and give you warm fuzzy feelings, and who protected and nurtured you in your life.
posted by Crystalinne at 1:43 PM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
To try to tell a long story in a short way...
I haven't spoken to my "mother" since I was 17. It's nearly 9 years now. But she was never a mother to me. My dad played both roles even though we all live together until I was 15. I've never had a mom figure growing up. As an adult I don't need one but I'm thankful to have an awesome step-mom and mother-in-law that I can talk to about anything. But they didn't come into my life until I was an adult and I didn't need a "mommy" anymore. They're my family and they're mother figures and amazing, caring, loving ladies but they don't fulfil some motherly role and warm and fuzzies that were missing from my childhood, because I'm my own person. They give me warm fuzzies and their own way.
The thing is, you got a mother figure - your aunt, and that's awesome! Be grateful for that, really! Imagine if you had a sibling and they dropped their kid your lap. Your aunt raised you to be a thoughtful, kind, person and helped you through college!
Here's the thing, you won't be able to get those warm and fuzzies with your biological mom. It just won't happen. But you have an awesome mom figure, and down the line you may have a partner's family or other awesome women or parent figures in your life. You have to learn to make your own path and figure out what you want, but unfortunately you can't go back in time and you can't make people do what you want them to do.
So, figure out what you get out of this relationship with your biological mother, if anything, and really see if it's worth the effort. Actually determine what you get out of it now and what you got out of it in the past, NOT what you hope to get out of it. NOT what you could get out of it "if only I did X" or "if only she did Y" because it won't change.
Then, celebrate the other awesome people in your life who have been there and give you warm fuzzy feelings, and who protected and nurtured you in your life.
posted by Crystalinne at 1:43 PM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
How can I keep this going? I'm guessing I'm trying to keep waters smooth because I do actually care about my mother and I desperately want to have some sort of family. So, I'm looking for advice on how to keep things smooth & easy from halfway across the world, and not break down into tears every time I have to deal with my mother.
It doesn't sound like she is trying to give you the same consideration. You can't have a positive relationship with someone who doesn't want one with you.
She calls me money-obsessed because I try to pay off my college debt and I am frugal ("the money obsession" started when she realised Auntie Jen helped me out financially to get through college - for which I am super-grateful and never asked for). Occasionally my mother'll send me emails like "omg, guess who won the lottery?!" and when I reply "hey, is it uncle Jim? he'll spend it all on fast ladies!" it's a bait-and-switch because I'm apparently money-obsessed and only want to talk to her when it's regarding money (wtf?). I feel naive because I'm just replying to an email and there is an ulterior motive?!
She is being a manipulative jerk.
Recently one of my cousins came to my new country for a work thing and we managed to actually meet up (yay!) - but we decided to keep it quiet because my mother is currently feuding with his sister.
So what? Why is that your problem? It is none of your business what you do and who you associate with. If she has a problem with it, that's all it is - her problem. You can tell her so.
It's not your responsibility to keep your mother happy. She's a grownup (technically, at least), and she's responsible for her own happiness. It's not something you can give to her by making compromises that make you unhappy. So stop trying.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:57 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
It doesn't sound like she is trying to give you the same consideration. You can't have a positive relationship with someone who doesn't want one with you.
She calls me money-obsessed because I try to pay off my college debt and I am frugal ("the money obsession" started when she realised Auntie Jen helped me out financially to get through college - for which I am super-grateful and never asked for). Occasionally my mother'll send me emails like "omg, guess who won the lottery?!" and when I reply "hey, is it uncle Jim? he'll spend it all on fast ladies!" it's a bait-and-switch because I'm apparently money-obsessed and only want to talk to her when it's regarding money (wtf?). I feel naive because I'm just replying to an email and there is an ulterior motive?!
She is being a manipulative jerk.
Recently one of my cousins came to my new country for a work thing and we managed to actually meet up (yay!) - but we decided to keep it quiet because my mother is currently feuding with his sister.
So what? Why is that your problem? It is none of your business what you do and who you associate with. If she has a problem with it, that's all it is - her problem. You can tell her so.
It's not your responsibility to keep your mother happy. She's a grownup (technically, at least), and she's responsible for her own happiness. It's not something you can give to her by making compromises that make you unhappy. So stop trying.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:57 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
My mom is not quite as troubling as yours but she is absolutely, absolutely a narcissist, manipulative (insert expletive here.)
About seven years ago, after she told me to leave her house because I wouldn't agree in July to what she wanted the family to do at Christmas (!!) I decided something that continues to keep me grounded and happy to this day: She will NOT hurt me again.
When she tries to draw me in, I resist. When she tries to manipulate, I learned to adopt the mantra listed above: I'm sorry you feel that way. Say it out loud now. I'm sorry you feel that way. You, not me.
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries and plenty of therapy!
posted by nubianinthedesert at 9:16 AM on December 3, 2015
About seven years ago, after she told me to leave her house because I wouldn't agree in July to what she wanted the family to do at Christmas (!!) I decided something that continues to keep me grounded and happy to this day: She will NOT hurt me again.
When she tries to draw me in, I resist. When she tries to manipulate, I learned to adopt the mantra listed above: I'm sorry you feel that way. Say it out loud now. I'm sorry you feel that way. You, not me.
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries and plenty of therapy!
posted by nubianinthedesert at 9:16 AM on December 3, 2015
I second the recommendation that you check out the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. I don't want to armchair diagnose your mother with anything, but she does sound very manipulative and self-absorbed. Another good forum for learning to deal with very difficult people is the Dealing With In-Laws forum at (oddly enough) baby center. A lot of the people there have narcissistic or borderline parents or in-laws, and while they can be a little harsh, they often have pretty good advice.
I agree with the previous poster who said that they didn't think that the relationship you'd like to have with your mom is possible. I am really sorry; it's a deep disappointment that may take you a very long time to come to terms with. Allow yourself to grieve it.
posted by Illuminated Clocks at 1:35 PM on December 3, 2015
I agree with the previous poster who said that they didn't think that the relationship you'd like to have with your mom is possible. I am really sorry; it's a deep disappointment that may take you a very long time to come to terms with. Allow yourself to grieve it.
posted by Illuminated Clocks at 1:35 PM on December 3, 2015
I'm guessing I'm trying to keep waters smooth because I do actually care about my mother and I desperately want to have some sort of family.
Whatever happens with your biological mom, you do have a family. Aunt Jen is family. Maybe it would be easier to deal with your mom's nonsense if you didn't feel so desperate. You don't need her in order to have a real relationship with a loving, maternal figure.
posted by Area Man at 1:49 PM on December 3, 2015
Whatever happens with your biological mom, you do have a family. Aunt Jen is family. Maybe it would be easier to deal with your mom's nonsense if you didn't feel so desperate. You don't need her in order to have a real relationship with a loving, maternal figure.
posted by Area Man at 1:49 PM on December 3, 2015
Karyl McBride's "Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Healing The Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers" may offer some coping strategies.
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:13 PM on December 3, 2015
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:13 PM on December 3, 2015
I have not talked to my parents in about three years.
They used to do the kind of stuff you describe. It ratcheted up as I became more independent from them. Once I had kids of my own, it became intolerable and I cut off contact.
Nthing r/rbn.
The only way to win is to not play.
posted by Athene at 5:12 PM on December 4, 2015
They used to do the kind of stuff you describe. It ratcheted up as I became more independent from them. Once I had kids of my own, it became intolerable and I cut off contact.
Nthing r/rbn.
The only way to win is to not play.
posted by Athene at 5:12 PM on December 4, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
-Lois McMaster Bujold, A Civil Campaign
posted by Wretch729 at 9:23 AM on December 2, 2015 [45 favorites]